NYT. Krugman. This Op Ed should scare the shit out of all of us

[NRaleighLiberal]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/opinion/wisconsin-primary-democracy.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

American Democracy May Be Dying
Authoritarian rule may be just around the corner.

Paul Krugman
By Paul Krugman
Opinion Columnist

April 9, 2020


snip

Yet the scariest news of the past week didn’t involve either epidemiology or economics; it was the travesty of an election in Wisconsin, where the Supreme Court required that in-person voting proceed despite the health risks and the fact that many who requested absentee ballots never got them.

Why was this so scary? Because it shows that America as we know it may not survive much longer. The pandemic will eventually end; the economy will eventually recover. But democracy, once lost, may never come back. And we’re much closer to losing our democracy than many people realize

snip...

What if Trump loses? You know what he’ll do: He’ll claim that Joe Biden’s victory was based on voter fraud, that millions of illegal immigrants cast ballots or something like that. Would the Republican Party, and perhaps more important, Fox News, support his refusal to accept reality? What do you think?

So that’s why what just happened in Wisconsin scares me more than either disease or depression. For it shows that one of our two major parties simply doesn’t believe in democracy. Authoritarian rule may be just around the corner.

read rest at link. apologies for paywall

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Yes.

[SharonAnn]

73. Yes

[Arkansas Granny]

2. K & R

[Delarage]

3. I worry about this all the time.

But I believe an overwhelming majority of Americans do not agree with the Repuke agenda---including all the people who rarely or never vote. We need more civic engagement, more voters registered. That being said, them ramming through 30 year old creepers as judges does scare me. And a general election in Wisconsin won't be affected by gerrymandering at least.

All I know is I'm gonna be very active in PA (my most important neighbor). I worked my butt off for Obama (both times) but slacked a bit for Clinton---other life stuff was happening and, honestly, I thought no one would vote for dipshit. So I personally plan on stepping it up and I hope that if everyone does (like happened when we took back the House) we can overwhelm them and lay them to rest permanently. If, God-willing, that happens, we will have a lot of damage to undo (the "American Carnage" to borrow a phrase).

[certainot]

71. the doom and gloom is bullshit, especially when thet plollitical analysts don't factor how

important talk radio was in getting us here. destroying it now would be easyh and without it the republican party is doomed.

limbaugh's croaking would be aa huge blow on it's own but even if it doesnt happen aafter those stationss spent 2 months calling COVID a hoax NO advertiser that doen't love trump has no excuse for staying on those stations

they are directly responsible for killing thousands and they need to be told, and the ad industry will have to break up the monopoly

[certainot]

72. the doom and gloom is bullshit, especially when thet political analysts don't factor how

important talk radio was in getting us here. destroying it now would be easyh and without it the republican party is doomed.

limbaugh's croaking would be aa huge blow on it's own but even if it doesnt happen aafter those stationss spent 2 months calling COVID a hoax NO advertiser that doen't love trump has no excuse for staying on those stations

they are directly responsible for killing thousands and they need to be told, and the ad industry will have to break up the monopoly

[fescuerescue]

4. Krugmans expertise in economics is only matched by his expertise in politics

He should be on the ballot.

[Hortensis]

5. They've been building, embedding and consolidating power

for well over 30 years, but accelerating tremendously this century. Overthrowing representative democracy was the white power party's answer to the problems of diversity and equal rights.

We won't know that 2012 wasn't our last real national election until November 4. Their 2016 victory enabled them to put 2 more corrupt archconservative political agents on the high court and many others on the appellate level.

[NEOBuckeye]

17. It's time to strike back against the Republican Party and take them down

I’m so sick and tired of seeing people roll over and let them have their way, time and again. Fight back against the bastards in the name of Democracy at each and every turn! And don’t ever concede to them! They can only win if we don’t stand up to them and let them get away with their awful agenda.

[Hortensis]

30. Yes. Smile and talk nice to conservatives and vote!

Of course. But their traitorous leadership have gotten and kept majority power by dividing and conquering the electorate but are now antagonizing and repelling smallish but critical percentages of those who've been voting for them. We're already a majority and will not only win briefly but keep power for a new golden era of liberal domination if a working majority can unify to overcome the vast divide that's destroying us.

[Grasswire2]

53. How many times have we been made to "look forward"...

....and go along to get along, setting aside the blatant criminality of Republicans?

I'm thinking back a few decades, and also looking straight at those who bow to "bipartisanship" SH&T today.

[Hortensis]

54. Republican VOTERS. NOT the criminals in office.

They should be charged for the traitors they are, and at very least for depraved indifference to the lives of all who will die in this pandemic, and should die in prison.

It may be painful to differentiate, but we're never going to get 60 million corrupted Republican voters in prison, and we need at least a few million to turn on the others.

Anyone who can't even put anger away enough to smile and point out, whenever the opportunity arises, that we're all "nice" people who have to fix our government because we care about our country, and our jobs, and our children and grandchildren, is part of the problem.

[Ferrets are Cool]

6. K and R

[Bernardo de La Paz]

7. Wisconsin Democrats on Tuesday said "Give me democroacy (liberty) or give me death." . . . nt

[calimary]

25. Sounds like that's what it's come down to.

[colsohlibgal]

8. Yep It Can Happen Here

Voter Suppression, the ridiculous Electoral College, the “Citizens United” decision, rampant gerrymandering, and 30 or so years of right wing talk/propaganda have led us here.


There are more of us than them but they hold a ridiculous majority of the cards.

We need the White House, the Senate, and a couple of those fat cat Republican Supreme Court Men to then expire. Then we can start trying to work for everyone not just for rich people and corporations.

[Peacetrain]

9. You are right.. that scared the bejebus out of me!!

And if you listen to the hell hounds on the right.. so true..

[MyOwnPeace]

10. Those brave people

in Wisconsin are the new Patriots of our time. Let's hope that their actions and efforts pay off with getting qualified people into positions of power in their state.
Their situation, as well as Krugman's column should put all of us on supreme alert as to how the RepubliCons intend to continue their actions of grand theft regarding votes.

All the more reason to be sure to GET OUT THE VOTE come November!

[Heartstrings]

49. Thank you, MyOwnPeace.....

We Dems here in WI are trying like hell.....it’s been a rough few days, not only quarantined but now this sham of an election....I will work my ass off, as I did for midterms to GOTV!!!

[yellowdogintexas]

66. are there any raw numbers on how many Democrats voted vs Republicans?

Does WI have open primaries or do they register by party (Here in Texas we have open primaries, so the only way we can find Democrats is to sort the VAN by the primary they chose. If a voter just votes in general elections, there is a big blank there. If a voter crosses over and picks up a Republican ballot (erroneously thinking that they can sabotage a race) they won't show up. This also means that if a Republican votes in Dem primary, we get yelled at when we call them or knock on their door.

[Heartstrings]

68. Ballots here in WI are open....

We also sort by VAN which is usually pretty accurate but sometimes, like you stated, if they only vote in the general, it’s a crapshoot when canvassing or phone banking.

No numbers on this weeks election until next Monday.....🤞

[kentuck]

11. Here is the money phrase

"Would the Republican Party, and perhaps more important, Fox News, support his refusal to accept reality? What do you think?"

What do you think?

[dalton99a]

41. +1

[DENVERPOPS]

56. There is no way

the Republicans plan on letting the election end with a Democrat candidate winning........NO WAY

My focus is on the Night of Nov 3rd and the next day Nov 4th. We will see horrific stuff come down that none of us could ever have imagined possible. Barring some true Miracle, WASF......

The Republicans were just experimenting in 2000, 2004, 2016 I'm sure they are planning a full roll out in this election...Fraud and Corruption are their only means, and they are experts at both......

They are a millimeter away from their "installation" of a Corporate Fascist Tyranny........

I have been watching them intently for forty years, chipping away from all angles, and we are at a point of no return and best described as "check mate". Forty years, and I still can't figure out how people could be so stupid and willfully ignorant.....

[FelineOverlord]

12. NYT. Krugman. This Op Ed should scare the shit out of all of us

I have been reading many books about the French Resistance in the last year . . . and all the other European resistance groups during WWII (Dutch, Danish, Czech. etc).

The French Resistance is fascinating because they had to fight not only the Nazis but their own Vichy government, and many French citizens were more than willing to turn in their own countrymen.

Also watching many great documentaries and movies on European Resistance networks on YouTube.

Just a harbinger of what may be in the future . . .

[2naSalit]

13. K&R

[rickyhall]

14. Then the GOP will be the Most Hated Party, if not already.

I'm 64, Democracy may die with me. Terrible thought...

[johnthewoodworker]

15. The republican coup is over. In this bizarre, parallel universe in which we live,

things will end poorly. Republicans did not expend all this energy to take over the country so that a bunch of voters could come in and fuck up their plan. I would love to think that we live in a functioning democracy, but looking around I don't see it.
When the republicans exonerated president cat grabber on 02/05/2020, even though it was a predicted outcome, it was their formal declaration that the constitution was more of document of suggestions.
So, we will vote, blog, post and complain, but I fear the fix is in. The question is: Will Americans ever take to the streets?

[Cyrano]

18. "Will Americans ever take to the streets?"

When/If we do, it will be too little too late. The Republicans control most of the levers of power.

Our only hope is that the Pentagon Chiefs of Staff won't obey them. And that would be a military coup. Were this to happen, what would the next step be?

We're really in uncharted territory.

[Woodycall]

33. If you do, you better be prepared

Remember how our forefathers made protest signs and drove the British out? Remember how our fathers and grandfathers landed on Omaha Beach with protest signs and kicked the Nazi's asses? Neither do I...

[NoMoreRepugs]

21. I think you know us boomers will to protect our grandkids future -

the other “groups” will be a hodgepodge of protest here and there. Just my opinion, would love to be proven incorrect.

[leighbythesea2]

24. I'm Gen X

And we will too! I have an aging parent i care for and an adult millennial AND Gen Z stepkids.

My gen is right in the sandwich era. !

[NoMoreRepugs]

27. Great, let's just hope we don't have to do it.

[leighbythesea2]

23. That really is the question

I ask too. People have to be out of work and hungry to protest.
If you dont fear job loss, and you can't feed your family you dont have anyrhing left to lose.

Venezuela is an example. But look how far gone it is.
I was there in 1999 with a friend who's from there. She said then her family had some splitting over Chavez. Most of her family were academics and in medicine and disliked him intensely. Others were staunch supporters.

She lives in the states, now her father is here with her as refugee status.

Its just one example but i think of it a lot these days.

[Dr. T]

16. Here's the e-mail message I sent to Wisconsin Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald

He's a Republican (duh) from rural Juneau, Wisconsin. He's the one who filed the lawsuit to prevent Governor Tony Evers' executive order to postpone the election. He's the one who deserves as much scorn and ridicule that possibly be heaped on a person.

"Congratulations, Senator Fitzgerald!

Your cruel and inhumane actions to prevent postponement of today's Wisconsin election has made you the laughing stock of America and the butt of dark humor across the globe.

History is watching and you've failed in spectacular fashion. Your entire public service career will be defined by your unthinkably short sighted blind political ambition, this moment in time that was on display for the world to see.

You and your pal (Assembly Speaker) Robin Voss will always be remembered as the politicians who put party loyalty above the sanctity of human life. You and you alone could've stopped this. You and you alone own this"

[Woodycall]

34. He won't care

He's a straight-up Nazi. He'll just laugh his ass off... These people are evil.

[Dr. T]

44. You're right, Woodycall.

It dawned on me that these troglodytes have no soul, no moral compass and no shame. They're like a rabid dog with a diseased mind that has only one goal.

[leighbythesea2]

19. So much THIS

I worry all the time. Wisconsin prompted me to say to my husband, get ready for a complete onslaught to the November election.
Also, let's decide for once and all which country we want to retire to. Although we are nowhere near retirement age.
So that's a bit premature.

[IronLionZion]

20. Freepers boast of it openly online

about how most of the COVID infections and deaths are mostly in blue areas of America like cities. And how it was Macchiavellian strategy to send Dems to vote in long lines in Milwaukee at the level of military genius comparable to their ancestors wiping out the Native Americans with diseased blankets.

These assholes still think they're safe out in the rural areas. The "real" America.

[Fiendish Thingy]

22. This is why Pelosi must act NOW on remote voting for Congress

The legislative branch has been neutered by the Corona virus, and Pelosi must make it a priority to regain Congress’ coequal powers of checks and balances.

If Congress can’t fix its own remote voting issues, it will never address the nation’s mail in ballot needs for November.

[uponit7771]

38. THIS !!!! Hold that Uber thier heads. Read 72% wanted vote by mail

[AJT]

52. Aren't voting rules controlled locally?

[stopdiggin]

69. yes. but you're stepping on a heartfelt and righteous rant

(no matter how ill informed) Get with the program!
--- --- ---

[AllaN01Bear]

26. after the sweraing in of biden, according to secret service , he will have to leave.

[SergeStorms]

74. The question is.....

if the election will even get that far. Will the fascist GOP allow Biden to win? That's the question. If you think the GOP doesn't have the machinery in place to assure a Biden loss, think again.

[Pepsidog]

28. I read a similar article somewhere, maybe Atlantic, but that said authoritarian rule already here.

Edit-I tried to find the article but couldn’t. It said that Authoritarianism is taking on a new look. Authoritarian’s like Putin, Erdogan and Trump etc. disguise authoritarian rule beneath the guise of democracy with sham elections (Wisconsin) making voting harder for many with the support of SCOTUS. Moreover, they guy the regulatory state and place incompetent leaders at the head of government agencies who essentially have to real power. No doubt Trump and minions have gutted regulations and he has defied oversight and replaced career officials with incompetent political cronies. November is a make or break election.

[oldsoftie]

29. Doesnt matter WHAT he thinks. If he's beaten in Nov, he will leave in Jan '21

Either on his own or "escorted"
Once a new president is sworn in, the old president has no powers

[Cyrano]

31. But he still will have millions of brain dead followers

[oldsoftie]

35. And they are his seeds for his TV network. Which is probably the real reason he ran for president.

Trump; 24/7
They'll all be in absolute HEAVEN.

[Sunriser13]

58. Trump's new TV network needs to be a "Court TV" clone.

The defendants being Trump and company only - 24/7/365 - should get great ratings, "the bestest ever" I betcha'.

[oldsoftie]

63. There should be enough cases to keep a dozen shows going for years!

[Sunriser13]

64. "Most successful show ever! Just check my ratings!"

[Pacifist Patriot]

48. Yep

I refuse to give up hope. If something horrific happens at noon on 01/20/2021, I'll eat crow. But until then, I have faith we can elect Biden president and repair and healing can commence.

[area51]

75. +1 n/t

[Sugarcoated]

79. Escorted by whom?

[oldsoftie]

80. By White House security or the Secret Service i assume. Whoever is responsible for that.

Some agency is in charge of WH security. They will be working for the newly elected President; not Trump. Whether he likes it or not.

[Laelth]

32. The Republican Party hasn't believed in democracy for a long time.

This is nothing new.

-Laelth

[Texin]

36. I am now viscerally scared about this.

I wasn't at first, because I thought he'd implode (which I should have realized during the *election* wasn't going to matter), and the sheer weight of his mistakes would make everyone want to drum him out of office. I was worried about how the rethuglicans in power would rubber-stamp his agenda and they certainly haven't surprised me. But their supine serenity about his treasonous and outright criminal behaviors have reinforced my belief that there is no bottom to which they'd be willing to go in order to guarantee their power-hungry grip on the government and rule of law in this country. They want to go into the territory that South Africans did in order to continue minority Caucasian rule in a country that they *colonized* and sought to continue their hold on amidst a rising tide of the majority. We will, I believe, be in store for what happened there, and it may be coming sooner than later; however, that's not a certainty. Like a frog dropped into a pot of warm water and slowly heated to boiling, we may find our democratic (so-called) system may be boiled slowly to death before it's realized it's happening.

[NRaleighLiberal]

39. trump alone is bad enough - but add in the brainwashed cult and his sycophant congress critters

and we are indeed in deep shit

[uponit7771]

37. K&R, Republicans are not interested in democracy ... nothing they've done in the last 10 yrs says

[ewagner]

40. It Can't Happen Here

The HELL IT CAN'T


https://www.target.com/p/it-can-t-happen-here-by-sinclair-lewis-paperback/-/A-76996477?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&CPNG=PLA_Entertainment%2BShopping&adgroup=SC_Entertainment&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=c&location=9019166&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1248099&gclid=CjwKCAjwssD0BRBIEiwA-JP5rH5O9kwt-t9eAD7K-z5YK8lhNOKyt-va06HrHH-wPVtzJLF1ItfMLBoCzWcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Nitram]

42. Yes, that is a scary proposition.

[Hotler]

43. Trump equals fascism...... shout it from the roof tops people..... nt

[JGug1]

45. Republicans do not believe in democracy

That is perfectly true. It was proved in 2000 in Florida, when quasi Brownshirts, disguised as lawyers descended on the state to fight to put shrub Bush in the White House and it is proved with despicable people like Kobach and again in Florida, where the legislature attempted to over rule the vote of the people. The Democrats have to get smarter and stronger. We MUST find a way to eliminate the Electoral College.

[niyad]

46. KNR

[live love laugh]

47. Authoritarian rule is fascism. Call a spade a spade. nt

[Blue Owl]

50. K&R

[modrepub]

51. This Was His Strategy In 2016

He always hinted there was massive voter fraud in the blue parts of multiple states. My state it was Philadelphia. He'll do it in 2020 if its close and based on my experience in Pennsylvania, there are a lot of folks who will buy into this. It's akin to being in a spousal abuse situation. That's why it's imperative for Democrats to put backstops preventing tax money from going to areas that don't contribute much as far as economic activity. They can have their malfunctioning small government, under funded schools, spotty internet and collapsing health care systems in their back yard (if you hate socialism then don't take more money than you contribute).

[Ad Infinitum]

55. Frank Zappa

Called it in the hearings in the '70's




He is a very dangerous Golgothan shit demon.
only here for the air conditioning.

[MiniMe]

57. Bill Mahrer has been saying that, even before Corona

[d_b]

59. Any Democratic leaders speaking about the

death of our Democracy? What do they suggest we do?

[Loge23]

60. Widespread social unrest will trigger it

Without a vaccine and/or a fast-acting cure med, we're facing a quarantine for the foreseeable future.
The food supply is one key area to watch, but even if the food supply is able to keep up with the demand there is still the very significant issue of having the funds to pay for food.
Millions of Americans live paycheck to paycheck - and that's the ones who are lucky enough to have a job that provides them with adequate sustenance.
What happens when the funds run out?

Don't think that Barr and the #IPOTUS haven't thought about this. Their trigger fingers are just itching for such a scenario.
If there is widespread unrest and rioting - and it's difficult to see how there wouldn't be if this goes on indefinitely - the administration will marshal their forces against us. The gated community set will applaud them as will the 1%. That will be the official end to what passes as a republic now.

As Prof. Krugman alludes to: we're dangerously close to that now.

[BamaRefugee]

61. I see countless articles like this, and none of them actually outline any course of action to take..

Are we just supposed to write scalding Tweets and furious postings for the next 20 years?

[intheflow]

62. Read without hitting a paywall at the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine, here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200410180900/https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/opinion/wisconsin-primary-democracy.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

[BlancheSplanchnik]

65. It was soooo important to get Kavanaugh in. And install right wing judges.

Repukes and fux have a very dark goal, and they’re getting there.

[Jeebo]

67. Can't get past the pay wall.

I wish I could read this article, but perhaps the snippets you posted get the gist of it.

Yes, we are in deep doo-doo. But there's still hope for us in November. If that arrogant orange con man loses and won't accept the outcome and tries to fight it, that will be a good problem for us to have, in my humble opinion. It's a problem I hope we're going to have.

-- Ron

[Odawg]

70. Couldn't agree more

I get so tired of some on this site with the Pollyanna attitude. This is a war and we are losing that's right losing big. We may never recover if we lose this next election.

[colsohlibgal]

76. Already Apprehensive

This is uncharted territory...he will not graciously accept losing even if he is beaten badly.

I see no way for him to win the popular vote...but we have to win enough swing States.

[Lock him up.]

78. He will lose badly, and if he falsely claims it was rigged...

... the Biden/VP campaign (and all the Dem voters) will simply ask for clear evidence (which he never provides and gets away with it: Not This Time!).

Then, having provided no evidence of his made-up claim (or so little of it - no system is perfect - that it can't even begin to make a difference), if he still refuses to leave on January 20, 2021 at 12 PM, the Secret Service will proceed to evict him and his bunch of sycophants.

[oldsoftie]

81. And THATS what HAS to be the focus. Biden must pick a VP who gives the best chance for that.

I dont care about anything else.

[Progressive Jones]

77. The American People have taken down those who've stepped on our freedoms

and safety throughout the history of this nation.

The British

Nazi Germany

Why not the domestic enemies, like the ones we're dealing with now?