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Wed Apr 15, 2020, 05:57 PM

Only 20% of patients intubated survive

It means 80% of patients will die. I remember seeing that some doctors are now performing less of them.
They are using alternatives to deliver oxygen.

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Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply Only 20% of patients intubated survive (Original post)
Blueplanet Apr 2020 OP
Mosby Apr 2020 #1
dixiegrrrrl Apr 2020 #2
spinbaby Apr 2020 #17
dixiegrrrrl Apr 2020 #20
spinbaby Apr 2020 #22
dixiegrrrrl Apr 2020 #23
pattyloutwo Apr 2020 #3
Recursion Apr 2020 #11
NutmegYankee Apr 2020 #24
tblue37 Apr 2020 #26
NutmegYankee Apr 2020 #27
Celerity Apr 2020 #4
Igel Apr 2020 #5
BGBD Apr 2020 #6
OhioChick Apr 2020 #7
dixiegrrrrl Apr 2020 #8
OhioChick Apr 2020 #10
dixiegrrrrl Apr 2020 #21
herding cats Apr 2020 #9
kentuck Apr 2020 #12
mnhtnbb Apr 2020 #13
Skidmore Apr 2020 #14
Celerity Apr 2020 #15
Skidmore Apr 2020 #16
retread Apr 2020 #18
elocs Apr 2020 #19
Hugin Apr 2020 #25
Zeus69 Apr 2020 #28


Response to Blueplanet (Original post)

Wed Apr 15, 2020, 06:26 PM

2. Worse yet, serious problems tend to result post-ventilator.



Read a Dr.'s warning of all the complications after the treatment, most related to serious heart issues.I

Good news is they have discovered lying on your stomach is often an effective way to increase oxygen saturation,
and some patients can avoid ventilators all together.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 06:57 AM

17. It's called proning

I have a friend who’s a respiratory therapist. She says they’ve had good luck with repositioning patients. She also keeps telling me to STAY THE F### HOME!

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Response to spinbaby (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 12:11 PM

20. Did she say how long/ how often to stay prone?


Just found out my son has it, he's on the West Coast, I'm in the South.
I want to give him info. about this.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 04:15 PM

22. I'm sorry your son has it

I’m not in touch with my friend much nowadays because she’s working mandatory overtime, but she did say I should get used to lying on my stomach—that position apparently lets lungs expand more. Also something about a special bed that rotates patients, but I know nothing about that except she wants more of them. Sorry I can’t be more helpful.

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Response to spinbaby (Reply #22)

Fri Apr 17, 2020, 03:07 PM

23. I know the bed you mentioned.


They use it a lot for paraplegics, to avoid bed sores as well as help with breathing.

Very space age like.

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Response to Blueplanet (Original post)

Wed Apr 15, 2020, 06:32 PM

3. Glad they're starting to change protocol

and put patients prone on stomachs. Read article in newspaper today. Sorry no link, don’t know original source of article.

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Response to pattyloutwo (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 04:10 AM

11. CPAP users often are asked to sleep on their stomachs

I don't know if that's particular to obstructive apnea or what.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 17, 2020, 03:09 PM

24. I've never once heard that.

The machine works in any sleeping position.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #24)

Fri Apr 17, 2020, 03:27 PM

26. I have had overnight sleep tests twice. Both times they found I have sleep apnea, but

only when I sleep in my back, so since I can't tolerate my stupid CPAP machine, I just never sleep on my back anymore.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #26)

Fri Apr 17, 2020, 06:19 PM

27. Makes sense from gravity.

But if you use the machine the positive pressure holds the throat open. I sleep on sides and back. I was never told to sleep on stomach, and I’m not sure I’d want to with a bad neck.

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Response to Blueplanet (Original post)

Wed Apr 15, 2020, 06:34 PM

4. a doctor on MSNBC a couple hours ago said the global literature shows 86% die after being intubated

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Response to Blueplanet (Original post)

Wed Apr 15, 2020, 06:37 PM

5. There aren't many more ways.

It's a progression. You start with a bit of oxygen in a nose tube. Ramp that up. Blood-ox levels continue to drop, you move to face mask. Eventually the lungs aren't working well enough and blood oxygen levels fall to below 90% or so, and you intubate.

Many still don't reach the necessary blood oxygen levels even with intubation.

Not many easy alternatives. They can use a machine that draws blood, oxygenates it outside the body, and returns it, but those aren't the most common things on Earth and require close monitoring--meaning that they need additional staff.

This is where some of that Star Trek "tri-ox" or whatever would come in handy--one shot and your blood oxygen levels go up for a while. http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=3689


Intubation is sort of nasty, though. Paralyze the lungs (don't want competition--that could cause damage); intubate, this tube going down your throat with gag reflexes and all. Then if you get anxious or agitated (gee, ya think) you're sedated. And you might stay on that for weeks, with a 20% chance of being able to actually be free.

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Response to Blueplanet (Original post)

Wed Apr 15, 2020, 07:02 PM

6. yeah, but

I believe good outcomes are generally pretty low for anyone suffering ARDS who are intubated.

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Response to Blueplanet (Original post)

Wed Apr 15, 2020, 07:15 PM

7. Tracheotomies n/t

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Response to OhioChick (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 02:42 AM

8. Not sure what you are meaning about trachs....


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Response to OhioChick (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 12:15 PM

21. Very interesting.


Thank you for the link, I will send it on.

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Response to Blueplanet (Original post)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 03:12 AM

9. Intubation is prone to complications.

It's not a first round treatment choice, ever. The longer you're on the more risk there is for the patient. It's not something to take lightly under any circumstance.

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Response to Blueplanet (Original post)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 05:38 AM

12. Sort of modern, like bleeding.

Breathe at the same rate and speed for days. Do not slow down the heart for rest. Force the oxygen into the patient. I could see problems with that. Probably does more damage than good? And I'm no doctor.

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Response to Blueplanet (Original post)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 05:50 AM

13. I think when this first started

and we were seeing stories based on China and Italy, that the anecdotal experience was about 50% survival rate from being placed on a ventilator. If so, this is really going the wrong direction to see only a 14-20% survival rate.

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Response to Blueplanet (Original post)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 05:51 AM

14. 15% of people

among new infections will die.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 05:59 AM

15. where did you see that? that is 3 times higher than any of the highest mainstream lethality rates I

have heard. Most say 2.5 to 4.5%, with a few saying 5%

I think it is around 3 to 3.5% or so.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 06:08 AM

16. That stat was given

this morning on First Look on MSNBC when they did their morning review of illness and deaths. It was an eye opener.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 16, 2020, 07:25 AM

18. Unless there is universal testing those "stats" are meaningless.

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Response to Blueplanet (Original post)


Response to Blueplanet (Original post)

Fri Apr 17, 2020, 03:12 PM

25. As intubation is a last resort, I'm not surprised at the high mortality rate.

You have to ask yourself how many of that 20% would have survived had the procedure not been done.

Don't confuse correlation with causation.

It's statistics.

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Response to Blueplanet (Original post)

Fri Apr 17, 2020, 06:37 PM

28. As we learn more...

This excellent short video by the "Failing😏" NY Times shows the conundrum those on the front lines are facing regarding Covid 19 and indications for ventilation.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007082510/coronavirus-treatment.html

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