My interesting trip to the grocery store story. (Western Washington state)

[icymist]

Today I was at the (grocery store) and the guy at the meat counter told me that he heard that Washington State's numbers on COVID-19 are false. That they count people who have died of heart attacks as deaths from the COVID-19 disease. He claims that he heard this on 'local news' and after pressing him further, I finally got 'king5' (local NBC station). I also talked to a manager there and he told me "many people are saying this". I stressed how disappointed I was for them saying this while the store itself has limited customers allowed in at a time, constantly reminds everyone to stay 'two shopping carts apart', and one-way aisles. I asked the manager if this was the position of the store. He said no, but then went on about how 'many other people' are saying this. Like it was no big deal. I wrote off an email to King5 to verify if they had actually put this on their broadcast to which I have not received a reply. It's been a few hours; when I get an answer I'll post it here.

[KT2000]

1. thank you for following this

I too will contact King5 if they really have said this.

[nilram]

2. Once it's worked on the lungs, the virus attacks the heart.

This is why people with existing heart disease are at higher risk. Eventually we will have to look at the death rate during this crisis, compare it to the death rate before this crisis and then will we will see the true numbers of deaths from COVID-19. Only a fraction of the people who need tests are getting tested. People who are found dead in their homes should be tested, too, but those tests are needed for the living.

[icymist]

5. I'm pretty sure that they're not going to test people who died of a coronary for COVID-19

It would be a waste of the limited tests we do have.

[nilram]

8. Exactly, they're not.

But they should be, and probably would be, if we had enough tests. Then we would know more about the spread of the disease.

[Midnight Writer]

13. Yes, they should. We need data. It is the only way out of this.

[chia]

21. Exactly. One factor may be that the lining of the heart has ACE2 receptors like in the nose/lungs

From Science magazine:

Striking the heart
In Brescia, Italy, a 53-year-old woman walked into the emergency room of her local hospital with all the classic symptoms of a heart attack, including telltale signs in her electrocardiogram and high levels of a blood marker suggesting damaged cardiac muscles. Further tests showed cardiac swelling and scarring, and a left ventricle—normally the powerhouse chamber of the heart—so weak that it could only pump one-third its normal amount of blood. But when doctors injected dye in the coronary arteries, looking for the blockage that signifies a heart attack, they found none. Another test revealed why: The woman had COVID-19.

How the virus attacks the heart and blood vessels is a mystery, but dozens of preprints and papers attest that such damage is common. A 25 March paper in JAMA Cardiology documented heart damage in nearly 20% of patients out of 416 hospitalized for COVID-19 in Wuhan, China. In another Wuhan study, 44% of 138 hospitalized patients had arrhythmias.

. . . .

Scientists are struggling to understand exactly what causes the cardiovascular damage. The virus may directly attack the lining of the heart and blood vessels, which, like the nose and alveoli, are rich in ACE2 receptors. Or perhaps lack of oxygen, due to the chaos in the lungs, damages blood vessels. Or a cytokine storm could ravage the heart as it does other organs.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/how-does-coronavirus-kill-clinicians-trace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes

[bluestarone]

25. I agree BUT

Then i would count the deaths as COVID-19 (my opinion) No test? great then count them covid-19 UNLESS they can prove different

[Chemisse]

26. I disagree. That's what can cause people to distrust the numbers.

It makes sense for physicians to determine that patients with all the hallmarks of the disease minus the test results to call if Covid-19 on the death certificate.

It does not make sense to call heart attacks Covid-19 until proven otherwise.

The numbers should be what we honestly believe they are, based on the best evidence we have.

[bluestarone]

29. I surely won't argue with you thinking

We may NEVER know the whole truth!

[BigmanPigman]

7. A lot of new deaths have been added today.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

For about two hours today this site that posts the numbers and charts(most people use it)had a revised numbers explanation posted. It said that the big jump today was the result of certain places now following the CDC guidelines about reporting the numbers of probable deaths by covid.

It is still inconsistent and some states follow it while others do not.

"New York Governor Andrew Cuomo on Wednesday said that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) had changed guidelines for how coronavirus deaths were to be recorded."

"They want deaths, and then another category of probable deaths," Mr Cuomo said, to be administered by local health departments or coroners. He added that people who passed away outside of a hospital or nursing home may have been missed in previous counts."

"Municipalities in Connecticut, Ohio and Delaware have begun to recorded cases where the infection is assumed but not confirmed with a test, Dr Barbot told the New York Times, while officials in California and Seattle only count virus deaths if proven with a positive test."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52303739

[Cassidy]

22. SARS-Cov2 total deaths will only be truly known in hindsight.

When this coronavirus crisis has abated - sometime in 2021? - the epidemiologists and statisticians will figure out the appropriate number of fatalities that can be attributed to SARS-Cov2.

Remember when Mad King Donald said only 6-18 Americans died from Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico? The actual number was 2,982.

[BigmanPigman]

24. I think it may take a few years to get the real numbers...

Too many governments have a strange relationship with each other, including the US, these days (thanks in large part to the fucking moron).

[Chemisse]

27. It makes sense to try to count these at-home probable Covid-19 deaths in real-time,

while we are making decisions about how to proceed.

It doesn't help to have all this data two years from now, when it's too late to change how we react to it.

[BigmanPigman]

31. Getting up to date and accurate info

is crucial but difficult. There is so much inconsistency in reporting between cities and states.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/us-data/

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo on Wednesday said that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) had changed guidelines for how coronavirus deaths were to be recorded."

"They want deaths, and then another category of probable deaths," Mr Cuomo said, to be administered by local health departments or coroners. He added that people who passed away outside of a hospital or nursing home may have been missed in previous counts."

"Municipalities in Connecticut, Ohio and Delaware have begun to recorded cases where the infection is assumed but not confirmed with a test, Dr Barbot told the New York Times, while officials in California and Seattle only count virus deaths if proven with a positive test."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52303739

The guidelines are not consistently being followed by various cities and countries around the world.

[lunasun]

3. Is it a Sinclair station? I was amazed at the bullshit some local stations put out while

traveling for business to other towns . It sort of frightened me that people in the random city thought this was normal for local news the first few times especially since I hadn’t run in to it in my home town.
. I learned later it is often Sinclair owned local stations with the nutters that’s why I ask

[icymist]

4. No. Our Sinclair station is Komo4

I surprised me when that guy said King5. I was expecting Faux or some other BS (like Sinclair).

[liberalmuse]

10. They heard wrong.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/verify/verify-conspiracy-that-covid-19-deaths-are-being-inflated-doesnt-add-up/281-41f555ea-c051-423d-8f06-209d34aa5636

I've been following King5 because I will not give Sinclair-owned KOMO the clicks.

[icymist]

14. I read that too.

That one is dated from the 9th. I'm still waiting for a response from King5 news.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. If you tick along NYC at about 4500 deaths a month & one month you get say 10500 & next 14500

... you know it's not a little "miscounting" or fudging.

When NYC is running about 150 deaths a day, reasonably steady and then you get rising days and reach a number of 600 death days,

... you know it's not a little "miscounting" or fudging.

But RW types seek confirmation and outlets like Fox are eager to give it to them. So they never hear that and certainly don't think it.

Deaths are probably under counted.

[kimbutgar]

9. Tonight on the NBC news they said they are seeing a spike in strokes that could be CV related

The virus might be affecting different parts of the body and attacking it.

[pnwmom]

12. Also, low oxygen could lead to a stroke. nt

[Chemisse]

28. There is a lot being learned about the impact on different parts of the body.

Such as severe kidney damage. And clot formation seems to be a problem as well, which could be causing the strokes.

[pnwmom]

11. Covid 19 causes extreme oxygen deprivation. Our heart muscles need oxygen to survive.

Our brains also need oxygen to survive.

So when a Covid person dies of a heart attack or a sudden stroke, OF COURSE Covid is the cause of death.

I know YOU know this -- I'm just suggesting what I would have said to the guy spouting Fox news nonsense.

[icymist]

15. Yes I know this. This guy didn't say Fox was the source, but King5

And not all heart attacks and strokes are COVID related. This particular bit of spouting off CV's irked me. The man was handling my dinner.

[pnwmom]

16. I doubt that King5 said it. It's easy not to remember what station you hear something on

so it could well be Kiro, the Sinclair station.

Of course all heart attacks and strokes are not Covid related. But when someone with Covid dies of a heart attack or stroke, the cause is Covid (unless they were in the hospital already with a heart attack or stroke, and got exposed to Covid before they died . . . but those people are probably never diagnosed.)

[Evergreen Emerald]

17. The Sinclair station is Komo (4)

[pnwmom]

19. Thanks! The point remains -- the guy might have misremembered about King 5. n/t

[icymist]

18. Sinclair is Komo. Kiro is Cox media group.

Regardless, King5 hasn't yet answered my email and I'm wondering if I should transfer all my meds out of that in-store pharmancy.

You seem knowledgeable in medical. May I ask what you do?

[icymist]

20. It has been over 24 hours since I contacted King5 about the above matter - Nothing.

Just this generic message:

Thanks for contacting KING 5 in Seattle. If you have a news story, please email us at [e-mail]. In the meantime, get news updates at king5.com. Thank you from the KING 5 team.

I'm not sure how to take that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. Washington state's deaths per capita are below the national average

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

USA: 114 total deaths/million; Washington: 83.

Now, that's still fairly high in the ranks of states - 10th (if you include DC, at 7th). But this is largely because Washington was the first state with an outbreak; it had early deaths, and is now getting very few per day - about 18, and has done so for the last 2 weeks. That 18 puts it about 20th in yesterday's list of deaths/day; since it's the 13th largest state by population, it is now having fewer deaths per capita per day than the median state.

So any conspiracy theory that Washington is, for some unknown reason, claiming extra Covid-19 deaths has to explain why they think Washington has, in their world, a really, really low death rate by now.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

30. I'm afraid you're looking for proof of something that almost certainly doesn't exist...

therefore, you're going to have a problem getting confirmation. There's no way I can say 100% for sure, but I think it's a very safe bet the State of Washington is not counting routine heart attack deaths in with coronavirus deaths unless the person currently had a confirmed serious case of the virus.

So, how would you propose a TV station would confirm that something likely not true was never said? They would literally have to poll every editor and newscaster with that question and that is not going to happen.

I think your best bet is to write an email to the Washington State Dept. of Health or try to call their COVID-19 information center.

See: https://www.coronavirus.wa.gov/

or.... https://www.doh.wa.gov/

Not sure if this will get you anywhere but perhaps worth a try.....

Washington State’s official COVID-19 site, maintained by the state Joint Information Center

Contact our Call Center

If you have questions about what is happening in Washington, or how the virus is spread, please call 1-800-525-0127 and press # from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m, seven days a week. Please note that this call center can not access COVID-19 testing results. For testing inquiries or results, please contact your health care provider.

My suspicion is this is right-wing bullshit that's been passed around as fact, or your person at the store simply mistook something he heard on TV.

[orleans]

32. illinois governor was asked about that on sunday during the daily briefing

he had dr. ezike (illinois director of public health) respond to the question that if someone dies from a heart attack and they are positive for covid is the cause of death a heart attack or covid. ezike said (from what i remember) that if the person has tested positive for covid then that is listed as the cause of death, not the heart attack.

perhaps this is because of what someone posted upthread--that covid puts such a strain on heart, lungs, etc.

anyway, if someone said they heard it on local news then they probably did. i heard it during pritzker's briefing.