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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhere the FUCK do people get off equating Aspergers with sociopothy?
Last edited Wed Sep 12, 2012, 07:14 PM - Edit history (1)
First of all, I am the MOTHER, SISTER, SISTER-IN-LAW and WIFE of people with Aspergers. I have friends with Aspergers, I know the friends of my daughter with Aspergers and it offends me beyond all words when people with no medical knowledge or personal knowledge start saying that people with Aspergers are sociopaths or schizophrenics or that it is all the same. To be blunt your head is up your ass.
Mit Romney does not have Aspergers. You know why I know? BECAUSE PEOPLE WITH ASPERGERS CANT LIE they are KIND they don't like to see the smallest thing suffer, they wouldn't turn their back on a bird with a broken wing much less cut off food stamps or funding for senior citizens.
Mit Romney is rich and doesn't give a shit. THat is it. He has never in his life had to be down in the muck with the peasants as much as he has during this campaign that is why he doesn't know what to do. He probably has to change his clothes to get the stink of the commoners off him. He once said when asked why any of his sons weren't in the military that they were "serving their country helping him run for president"
Aspies don't abuse animals.
PLEASE CAN WE STOP THIS "IS ROMNEY AN ASPIE" talk? Sometimes shit is just shit. 
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mike_c
(36,422 posts)....Romney has a PROFOUND case of AS. Asshole Syndrome.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)that's not chronic 
bananas
(27,509 posts)mike_c
(36,422 posts)eom
cali
(114,904 posts)k&r
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)
Care Acutely
(1,370 posts)diagnosable.
goclark
(30,404 posts)Sounds like a sociopath to me.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I thought what you said was settled days ago.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)
fleur-de-lisa
(14,683 posts)and I don't believe anyone on DU meant to show disrespect for those with Asperger's. They're just misinformed. But I applaud you for calling attention to the issue. And I completely agree with your conclusions about Romney. He is a sociopath (I hope I'm not offending any sociopaths!).
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)is not dissimilar. I am dx'd Asperger's and some people I've known over the years have said that their initial impression of me was one of an ice-cold, arrogant, emotionally remote person.
I am distant and don't open up, don't make eye contact and don't have much in the way of interpersonal empathy whatsoever, though it should be said that interpersonal empathy is definitely not the same thing as compassion.
If Willard is Asperger's I am Napoleon. He's a pure sociopath.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)which given his medical history matches far closer.
To me it is immaterial, he is not qualified.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)I apologize for it...
And I won't say it again...
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Apologies seem to be more and more infrequent among people in our society.
And we would have a whole different society if they were more frequent. Things would be much improved. It usually is that people want to do "damage-control" rather than apologize.
Robyn66
(1,675 posts)I don't know what you said. My post was not aimed at you or anyone in particular just at a trend that seems to be continuing no matter how many times people try to correct it. I really appreciate your self delete and your apology.
Tikki
(14,799 posts)their hair or putting a dog on the roof of a car, etc.
A person who has Aspergers is more likely to complain loudly
over and over again to try to get the dog taken off the roof of the car.
Tikki
LoveIsNow
(356 posts)People with AS/autism get bullied, we don't do the bullying!
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)Say this early and often.
Mr. Willard is sick, but with something far more disturbing than Aspergers. I think he is a sociopath and dangerous.
randome
(34,845 posts)Correct people if we don't have all the information. But cursing DUers who don't have the same information? Not necessary.
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)Narcissistic personality disorder is one of a group of conditions called "Cluster B" or "dramatic" personality disorders. People with these disorders have intense, unstable emotions and a distorted self-image. Narcissistic personality disorder is further characterized by an abnormal love of self, an exaggerated sense of superiority and importance, and a preoccupation with success and power. However, these attitudes and behaviors do not reflect true self-confidence. Instead, the attitudes conceal a deep sense of insecurity and a fragile self-esteem. People with narcissistic personality disorders also often have a complete lack of empathy for others.
I've heard many Aspergers say that they can lie and manipulate and even better than most. So perhaps aspie diagnosis is also not a guarantee against well known human ability of self-deception?
I am the mother of an Aspie, and the one thing he cannot do is lie.
To successfully lie and manipulate others you must be very good at (among other things) reading the body language of others, and controlling your own body language. These are two things that Aspies cannot do.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)There are exceptions to every rule I guess.
tama
(9,137 posts)it's not a single thing but variety that is now coined under one name.
Mopar151
(10,197 posts)But they are terrible at it.
tama
(9,137 posts)some may be exceptionally good at it, some may be unable to lie. Let's try not to overgeneralize a group of people or identity with huge variety and accept their individual differences.
Robyn66
(1,675 posts)But trust me they telegraph lies like you wouldnt beleive. Now of course the reason its called a spectrum is because there are all different degrees of imparement, but the fact of he matter is the part of the brain that allows for deception just isnt functioning in people with aspergers. With my daughter, learning to be deceptive was actually a goal we were working toward because it requires brain connections to get there!
Notafraidtoo
(402 posts)My Girlfriend of two years is a aspy and i have learned a lot about it in that time period and mitt is definitely not aspy,as Robyn66 said it is almost imposable for them to lie and every aspy i have ever met interested in politics are profoundly lib based on the logical way they see the world and think...they are complex thinkers and are incapable of living or seeing the world in any kind of fantasy setting this can be difficult for aspys cause for us NT's this is part of our coping mechanisms they do not tend to have them making life very tough..
..Aspy's tend not to buy into religion passed adolescence once they are old enough to understand that adults lie..this is rather hurtful for aspy kids and changes how they see the world..aspys would never bully for sport and if their words are ever hurtful it is simply cause they do not have the social filters we have..trust that it is in absolute innocence cause it is..they would not harm any animal and in the case of my GF sees animals as just as sentient as humans..
personally i think hes closer to narcissist
fleur-de-lisa
(14,683 posts)And welcome to DU!
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Animals aren't as sentient as humans, however, they have just as much right to a good life as we do.
Notafraidtoo
(402 posts)But in her world no..its not a easy thing to understand takes a long time and a lot of discussion if you are NT its hard to make sense of a aspys thought process..they are wonderful people and my life is much richer for the experience i love her dearly..
il_lilac
(895 posts)You describe my aspie daughter to a T. Welcome to DU Notafraidtoo!
Avalux
(35,015 posts)I've thought it for awhile but am now convinced, after his bizarre antics this morning, grinning and lying....he does not seem to value human life and seems to be excited at the thought of conflict.
Pithlet
(25,089 posts)Your rant gets a hearty rec from me. I couldn't agree more.
Raine
(30,669 posts)much about this. We can all use educating on what's what with many things we don't have knowledge of.
liberalhistorian
(20,859 posts)aspies and have studied psychology and sociology and I know good and damned well that it is NOT NOT NOT sociopathy, period. The media does an absolutely horrible job of presenting AS and autism and propagating stereotypes, misinformation and inaccuracies. One of the problems is that it's only been officially recognized in this country since 1994, whereas it's been recognized in Europe for over fifty years and knowledge is much better there. I am SICK TO DEATH of every person woh's a jerk being automatically slapped with the aspie label by people who don't know shit about it, who are just going by stereotypes.
Aspies mostly certainly DO feel emotions and empathy and care about others. It's just that it's not in the typical way that we would normally relate to and that is socially expected. To them, it feels like they are on another planet and having to endure daily negotiations through constant minefields, always being afraid of what they say and do and of not understanding things correctly. This is one reason why adult aspies seem so aloof, the fear has either paralyzed or numbed them.
And some of the nastiest people I've ever known have been very socially adept, so having social sense doesn't always mean shit. Just one of the major differences between aspies and sociopathy is that, when you explain to an aspie that something has hurt someone or explained how someone feels about something, they almost always DO care and try to understand and do something about it. Whereas sociopaths often actually have good social sense (which is how they're able to fool so many people so often to manipulate and get just what they want), and know right from wrong and know how people are feeling. They just don't give a shit.
Unfortunately, hate groups like FAAAS (Families of Adults Affected by Asperger's Syndrome) perpetuate this bullshit and actively work for discrimination against aspies in family law, employment, legally, etc. I remember my son asking me once, in tears, after looking at their site and their information, "why do they hate me so much when they don't even know me". Heartbreaking.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)liberalhistorian
My brother, who have asbergers is a gentle, nice man who have this problems reading others - and he is maybe difficult to read also - if you doesn't take your time to learn how hi show his feelings then... I know him well - but even I have problems sometimes reading him - and understanding him.. Many with asberges can look like nothing hurt them - but inside they are wrecks of sadness and griefs.. many have just trouble being able to express it in a way, specially when they grow up to be adults when you are little you can always put on a tantrum - but if you are adult - and given some "normal upbringing" you can not put on a tantrum and hope someone understand what you want... Most then hide inside the "inner fortress" where they are safe and where no one can hurt them.. Not that "normals" is not able to build their own "personal fortresses", I know, I have my own fortresses to hide behind when the world goes bad. My brother tend to hide in another world - like a fantasy world of sorts. I have been lucky enough to be able to learn something about the world he have and I would just say - I wish the real world had been more like his world - then I suspect the world would have been a nicer world for everyone..
And many, if not most with asbergers, is smart, very smart, in most cases, they are far smarter than the "normal ones", they have just problems expressing their mind - and I believe your son is smartest han any of them, who have a bigoted attitude, and I feel sorry for your son - who have to experience attitudes like this from "normals">.. Sometimes I wounder who is normal or not...
Diclotican
mmonk
(52,589 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,859 posts)piece of work. And they're doing a lot of damage, the efforts of ASAN (Autistic Self-Advocacy Network) and similar groups notwithstanding.
tjdee
(18,048 posts)You make an excellent point. I have known people with Aspergers and while sometimes I've wished they weren't SO honest at times, I have always known that I can trust them to give it to me straight.
eridani
(51,907 posts)It is one thing not to give a shit about other peoples' suffering (Mitt the Twit), and quite another to have a hard time deciphering the social signals that indicate suffering (Aspies).
As one mother of an Aspie put it "My son wouldn't hurt a fly, provided that he understands that the fly is being hurt."
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)A person with Asperger's or something else in the autism spectrum might say or do something offensive, and would have a hard time reading the facial expressions and body language a person might be giving off indicating he or she is upset. But when you go up to him, and tell him "Hey, that thing you said wasn't cool, and that person's really upset!" the ASD person will immediately feel empathy, feel terrible for what he did, and will probably apologize.
A psychopath, like Mitt Romney or Dick Cheney, knows perfectly well when he says or does something hurtful, and knows exactly when a person is expressing hurt or offensee. He just doesn't care, or takes pleasure from it. You tell him "Hey, that wasn't cool, that person's really upset!", he'll react with "So?"
adigal
(7,581 posts)And I think people get confused because many kids with aspergers are very socially awkward, say the wrong thing, don't read social cues at all. Romney has been running for president for 6 years. I admit to some confusion myself,as to how a smart man, and he is smart, can make such simple social and verbal errors over amd over!?? What is wrong with him? The smirking today - yes, sociopathy. But the inability to learn what to say and not say (I like firing people) is just perplexing to me. I don't think that is sociopathy, but it is definitely something, and that aspect is similar to some aspergers kids I have taught.
And before you kill me, I am not talking about his heartless and selfish behavior. I am talking about his verbal and social errors.
AndyTiedye
(23,533 posts)He knows when he is causing hurt, and he enjoys doing it.
He doesn't care what people think of him.
It has never mattered before, why should it now?
He expects the election to be stolen for him.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Take care.
Robyn66
(1,675 posts)Good to see you!
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Thank you for calling people out on this.
Take care.
AndyTiedye
(23,533 posts)Most Aspies despise politics, as the very essence of what we find irrational and inexplicable about what passes for normal social interaction.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)Diclotican
(5,095 posts)Robyn66
Asberges are definitely NOT sociapaths... I know, I have a brother who have asberger - and he is many things, but not sociapath...
People with asbergers can lie - but they lie very bad, as their body language says one things - when they mouth says a whole different thing - and even though it is not always easy to "read" a people with asberger - if you know how to look, you know when they lie and not.. They are at all as Innocent as "normals" thinks then to be - but for the most part, because of how they look at the world, they tend to speak their mind, regardless of it hurts or not.. As my brother discovered a time, when our first uncle kid was little, and he was telling me that he doesn't liked it when he was crying - my sister overhead it - and got really insulted by it.. He was not bad or evil - he was just telling his mind about what bothered him...
On the flip side, I suspect most asbergers is smarter than "normals" Will ever admit them to be.. As I have told before once, my brother managed to get home from our mothers up in the northern parts of Sweden, and home - more or less by himself - and he managed to get there, withouts paying a dime for most of the trip - as SAS paid for the taxi to the train station (because they misinformed him about where the gate was, and he was on his merry way to turkey before it was discovered that he should not be on THAT airline.. Thankfully he got to the right gate, and was flying with the next aircraft back to Oslo (I suspect it was right before Fornebu was closed down, so I think he got a taxi from there to the down town area of Oslo) where he managed to get a free ride with a train - and was chatting happily with the train driver all the way up, and even get a free taxi to the door step.. And when I asked how he managed to do it - he just looked at me with his specially smile and say - no that is a secret... So at least my brother know to get to where he want to be, regardless of the situation.. But most of them is little lazy - and is rather comfortable letting others do the job - and they coming after when the road is cleared up a little...
In some way my brother is like a boy in a mans body - but sometimes he is a grown up as the body he live in.. And I have been blessed in many ways, to be able to be there, learning him, and knowing him.. And I have learned to sherish what he is - he is a complicated person, but also mye best friend - and more or less also my only familiy as our sister and mother more or less have turned away from both of us...
Diclotican
Shiraz
(302 posts)I have a child with severe autism , he has been diagnosed with Fragile X syndrome and he is very limited in cognitive abilities. I have done some research about how this diagnosis is intertwined in the genetic make-up of individuals. I have come to recognize relatives with Asbergers syndrome. I think they become very narcissistic because that validates them. As berger individuals are very intelligent but lack the ability to read emotions. Some are able to copy what they feel is the correct emotion, others just want to validate their intelligence and the emotional connection is really over their heads. Unfortunately individuals that have not been given the correct behavior intervention are more likely to become the narcissistic type of individual.
efhmc
(15,066 posts)
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts) 
Warpy
(113,131 posts)after everybody who replied pretty much piled on against the idea.
sakabatou
(43,493 posts)Yes, we can lie. However, Romney seems to be a possible sociopath.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)... not as well as you might think.
sakabatou
(43,493 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)You could explain. But instead you decide on this blast of hate. People aren't doing that on purpose and didn't intend that. They just think it means social maladjustment. They aren't trying to offend you.
IMO the thing to do is explain the differences and educate people, rather than trying to put them down. No one knows everything.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I think the OP was timely and appropriate.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Rather than convincing them there was more to learn.
This automatic "I must be a victim" mentality is what causes division rather than enlightenment.
Same point could have been made just informing people that it's not just missing social cues and that Rmoney simply does not qualify.
Instead it's a blast of rage at people for not knowing and intimating that of course these people are doing it to hurt those with Asbergers and their families. Just not so. People are just ignorant, or, a little knowledge is worse than none at all.
Pithlet
(25,089 posts)got me to see my own ignorance, and got me to wake up. I think that people only need to go so far to hold other people's hands when it comes to their ignorance. We get fed up.
elleng
(137,460 posts)and GLAD that I hadn't!
Pauldg47
(643 posts)....one is very soft spoken, quiet and almost reclusive. My other son is outspoken, very obsessive, is bi-polar and is delusional. He can be explosive and violent. Aspies can be as different as you or I.
In this society we all have varying degrees of any disorders. It's just, where is the distinguishing line?
Now this is the first time I heard this aspie stuff about Romney. Your right about aspies do not lie. But think of it this way. Maybe that is why he changes his mind, right?
My son tells me a lie, then will change his mind a day or two later!
Also, I'm a special ed teacher and many of my students are certified Aspergers. Are they the same; hardly, except for many of the major common things you brought up.
Yes, we are a bit insensitive bringing these labels up. But, does he have Aspergers? I see some mannerisms.?...for sure I see something wrong.
Note: both sons are socially inept, but very intelligent.
A last note: my father has Alzheimer's. There are mannerisms my father had in his very early stages that I see Mitt Romney doing now. I pray he does not have it, it is awful. Just saying.
Response to Robyn66 (Original post)
Post removed
Mopar151
(10,197 posts)Self-disclosure - I may be an Aspie, and my career has been trashed by guys like Mitt, so I'm hardly unbiased....
I would agree with those who see evidence of TBI - the occasional slurring of words, the odd walk, the dodgy memory, some aspects of borderline personality. But you dont get to be that much of an asshole on TBI alone. I think the very evident narcissim comes from his upbringing & Mormonisim, and IMHO, narcissim is the first step through sociopathy, up to full-blown psychopath. Where Mitt 4Brains is on the "path" exactly, is less relevant than knowing he's a bad piece of business who should be home playing with his car elevator.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Thank you.
adamuu
(2,099 posts)
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)
cherish44
(2,566 posts)And way over diagnosed. My ex husband took our daughter to a psychiatrist when she was 9 years old because he was convinced she had Aspergers because she (gasp!) preferred to read books rather then play outside. And of course this brilliant shrink managed to diagnose her with Aspergers after talking with her for 30 minutes. She's now 16, she's got plenty of friends and a social life. She's into "nerdy" things I guess like fan faction writing, reading and art. She's also in the band! (oh noes!) and still has little interest in sports...but no, she doesn't have Aspergers.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)I have worked with many Aspie children and my cousin's son is one too. They are not sociopaths at all. Romney is simply a privileged asshole.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)... developmental and mental disabilities. Some of the most kind people I've ever met, including my sister.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)
Seeking Serenity
(3,097 posts)PEOPLE WITH ASPERGERS CANT LIE
Um, yeah, they can. I've known Aspie's, those on the autism spectrum, and yeah, they can lie, as in tell an untruth. They may not be very good at it always, and they (at least the ones I know) usually feel guilty about having done so after the fact, but when cornered about something they've done wrong and that they know is wrong, you bet your butt they can lie. The Aspies I know have a sense of CYA when caught just as we neuro-typicals do.
Robyn66
(1,675 posts)Of course they can try but they are so incredibly bad at it they TELEGRAPH they are trying to lie. You wont find an Aspi selling bad used cars. If you want the unvarnished truth ask an Aspie!
tama
(9,137 posts)I'm very uncomfortable with the "neuro-typical" meme. Not just because of the 1-dimensional us-against-them division it all too easily leads, but also because I'm not so convinced that the multitude of personal traits coined as asperger/autism can be boiled down to neurological factors alone. Body-mind question remains open question and as long as it does, suggestion that it's all just neurology is a prison with no chance of transformative change is someone considers some personal traits negative or handicaps and wishes to change behavioral patterns. I'm not OK with the "written-in-stone" metaphor it implies.
Seeking Serenity
(3,097 posts)as opposed to "Normies," which I've also heard used to identify non-Aspergians.
Robyn66
(1,675 posts)I am going to say this in a completely incorrect way so please forgive me. My daughter has had therapists and teachers her whole life. This particular therapist would meet with her weekly and they would talk like conventional therapy but she is a specialist with Austic kids. Over the years, there has been progress made so that there are "connections" happening in the left side of her brain that had not been happening before. I think there is only so far that you can go with this but it she has made some pretty dramatic strides. So I don't think of her who is someone who is trapped or written in stone. I think there is some fluidity. And my daughter is now self aware of her difficulties. Just being aware of her self and being able to tell me she doesn't understand what I am asking her to do is a huge help and will serve her well in her life. If there is one think I have learned it is that there is no end to possibilities!
tama
(9,137 posts)Your story offers more evidence that causal relations don't go just from neural phenomena to psychological phenomena, but also the other way around. And "neuroplasticity" is expression for the fact that also our neural systems are much more fluid than has been earlier believed. I'm not expert about asperger and autism in any way and cannot define them intellectually, but I feel that what problems and handicaps they may entail are some kinds of deep emotional blocks and locks. Which can be helped with patience, understanding and compassion when in need, and self awareness.
Self awareness is very different from rigid self images, which can become very limiting. Again, thanks.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)He is the purest soul I have ever met, and when I grow up, I want to be just like him.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Asperger's=/= sociopathy, narcissism, or selfish arrogance. The two are not the same. That's not to say that everyone with Asperger's is a saint, but to remotely equate that with sociopathy smacks of ignorance at best, cruel offensiveness at worst. Mitt Romney is an asshole, and whether or not he has Asperger's doesn't change my view of him.
On this subject...I hate this idea that everybody who thinks differently, acts differently, or interprets the world differently from the "norm" is somehow "diagnosable." What happened to individual differences and variation in personalities? I (and many others on this forum, I'm sure) am fairly introverted, for example, but that doesn't mean that I have a "disorder" or "condition."
We need to stop labeling people, and start learning more about people as individuals. That goes for everybody.