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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums''When they draw blood from COVID patients, it clots in the tubes.''
April 24, 2020
Excerpt:
Around the world, doctors caring for COVID-19 patients have been trying to make sense of the same thing. When they draw blood from COVID patients, it clots in the tubes. When nurses insert catheters for kidney dialysis and IV lines to draw blood, the tubes quickly become clogged with clots.
Patients are making clots all over the place, says Adam Cuker, MD, a hematologist and associate professor of medicine at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania. Thats making management of these patients very challenging.
In addition to the well-known breathing problems, blood clots are a significant danger for COVID-19 patients. Clots are causing patients with COVID to have heart attacks and strokes; form strange rashes on their skin; and get red, swollen wounds that look like frostbite on their fingers and toes. On autopsy, the small vessels of the lungs and bowels, liver, and kidneys of COVID patients are choked with clots.
This is actually a disease of the endothelium, he says.
Mehra says the infection starts in the lungs because breathing is the easiest way for the virus to enter the body. Once it infects the lung cells and begins to destroy them, it travels into the bloodstream. There, it infects endothelial cells, causing endotheliitis.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200424/blood-clots-are-another-dangerous-covid-19-mystery
luvallpeeps
(935 posts)Demsrule86
(68,474 posts)heart but he survived.
citizen blues
(570 posts)But it also explains why some are being found dead in their homes: pulmonary embolism, heart attack or stroke.
Rorey
(8,445 posts)As I've said before, if I have to get this thing, I want to put it off as long as possible so that more is known about it.
no_hypocrisy
(46,038 posts)Volaris
(10,269 posts)others, necrotizing or neuro-muscular agents.
MontanaFarmer
(630 posts)Snake venom from most rattlesnakes in the US is hemotoxic, you're correct. Its function is to disable the clotting function, causing hemorrhagic blood loss and the destruction of red. So far in this thread we've now established that nobody wants covid or to be bitten by a snake (also can't be cured by mainlining lysol)!
localroger
(3,622 posts)If you get COVID-19, you can cure it by letting a rattlesnake bite you to cancel out its effects.
MontanaFarmer
(630 posts)luvallpeeps
(935 posts)covering his face, and Birx hanging herself with her scarf now.
BrightKnight
(3,567 posts)Yavin4
(35,423 posts)keithbvadu2
(36,674 posts)traveling preacher goes around to back country churches making supper and a little money.
they invite him to stay for supper.
then they invite him for further services.
what services? he asks.
they bring out the snakes.
he asks where the back door is.
don't have one.
reckon where they want one?
I am on blood thinners after my second dvt last fall. Maybe it is helping me fight covid / pneumonia.
samnsara
(17,606 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)luvallpeeps
(935 posts)I wonder if blood thinner could help. Aspirin even. I was also reading where smokers are being infected less. Very counter-intuitive because we're thinking this is a disease that affects the lungs. Wow.[link:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/23/smokers-four-times-less-likely-contract-covid-19-prompting-nicotine/|
TheBlackAdder
(28,168 posts)BComplex
(8,019 posts)that he wrote an article on for some publication. He said the drug, used to treat stroke victims that were caused by blood clots, had proven useful in several of his almost dead patients. It's a drug that evidently breaks up blood clots.
TheBlackAdder
(28,168 posts)Ilsa
(61,690 posts)to encourage clot breakdown in patients with clotting problems or early signs of stroke. I can't remember the source. Perhaps an overseas news outlet.
Mendocino
(7,482 posts)a number of years back. I was given tPA (clot busters). I then radically changed my diet afterwards, to vegan. My markers are now far above normal expectations.
My guess is that the SAD (standard american diet) lends it self to poor health in general IMHO.
underpants
(182,632 posts)First of all, studies are being released (not necessarily published) with alarming speed right now.
Second, its not smoking that appears to have the effect its a body dealing with nicotine. Two different things. The article says that the idea is to introduce nicotine through a patch. From everything Ive read smokers who get the virus are 3 times as likely to die. This was the final coffin nail in my hand that I decided to get rid of. Today is day 20 without a cigarette.
Oppaloopa
(866 posts)Lonestarblue
(9,958 posts)SaveOurDemocracy
(4,400 posts)underpants
(182,632 posts)Cant say I miss it much. Early mornings with coffee and about 8ish PM seem to be when I just want to step outside for a smoke. No real nic fits due to the patch. I step outside as breath in an Altoid. Other them that I really dont even think about it.
Odd how it was such a part of my life for so many years.
JudyM
(29,204 posts)Way to go, underpants!
hatrack
(59,578 posts)Of course, that could potentially lead to other issues down the road - but congratulations!
underpants
(182,632 posts)Im really watching what I eat. Cut out bread almost completely. Two drinks of booze in a month.
Getting ready to go for a run ...after I do my 100 sit-up type thingies.
hatrack
(59,578 posts)underpants
(182,632 posts)luvallpeeps
(935 posts)I sent it to my girlfriend who quit smoking about 6 mos. ago. I have some catch up to do.
BComplex
(8,019 posts)It takes some time to adjust to it, but I always found that drinking REALLY COLD WATER and deep breathing really helped get past a bad craving. Besides, water is good, ok?
ooky
(8,908 posts)for me was to never pick up another one thinking "I'll just smoke this one". Best of luck to you.
Woodwizard
(837 posts)Been 19 years for me don't miss it a bit. Quit after I started cycling a lot, stayed off and still cycle.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)If you have made it that far, you are on a good path.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)I mean, taking something like aspirin prophylactically, to try to prevent this clotting process from starting in the first instance.
Doctors are using heparin in patients with mixed results, because some patients are bleeding into their abdomens.
They are also using some emergency protocol used on stroke patients (maybe tPA).
woodsprite
(11,905 posts)Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation. A lot of times that it manifests is when there has been an infection. If they can find and treat the underlying cause, they stand a chance of fixing it. Haemopheliacs, cancer patients, and diabetics make up a good portion of those affected.
My mom died from that. The dr explained that even though they had her on blood thinners to try to manage the clotting until they could find out what was causing it, the thinner would break up the clots but those cells were not usable by the body again. Eventually her body was being overwhelmed and the only thing keeping her alive was the constant plasma drip and transfusions, and they were no closer to finding out what caused it. We (my mom, brother, and myself) could elect to stop the transfusions and wait for complete organ failure, or stop the transfusions and she could say her last goodbyes to the family and grandkids. She opted to stop and visit with the grandkids. She lasted not quite 24 hrs.
Thank God she could say good bye. My brother died from vCJD. The neurologist suggested it was from deer meat. My brother was a bow hunter back 15 years before this. It can kill you all those years later. Talk about gut wrenching.** Variant CreutzfeldtJakob disease (vCJD) is a type of brain disease within the transmissible spongiform encephalopathy family. Symptoms include psychiatric problems, behavioral changes, and painful sensations. The length of time between exposure and the development of symptoms is unclear but is believed to be years. It happened in 2013. I'm still not over it.
BComplex
(8,019 posts)Baltimike
(4,138 posts)or it can cause Reye's syndrome.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/reyes-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20377255
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)Silver Gaia
(4,541 posts)And terrifying!
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)yardwork
(61,539 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)octoberlib
(14,971 posts)Remember the ACE inhibitor , NSAID hysteria caused by a couple Lancet articles? This doctor is saying something completely different.
KPN
(15,637 posts)say the least.
MH1
(17,573 posts)until there is more consensus in the medical and scientific community and we can get the "wheat" without the "chaff".
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)LeftInTX
(25,149 posts)underpants
(182,632 posts)Im as far as you can be from a doctor but having read several stories about blood clots in fairly young people it came to mind.
Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)and watched as small clots formed all around it. I don't know the procedure, but it appeared they could locate the clot and suction it in some way, but it was visible to the surgeon as a white glob. I assumed it was some type of scope.
This virus seems to have all the bases covered. Even Mother Nature couldn't come up with all the damage it does. I can't imagine anyone can live through an attack of it.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Covid19 is a beast of Nature.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)Explains a lot.
For example, certain conditions like high blood pressure, diabetes, and heart disease stress the endothelium. Its no surprise, then, that people who have these conditions are also the ones who get the sickest when they catch COVID-19.
It also helps to explain why patients have such low oxygen in their blood, but their lungs may not be as stiff as they typically are in patients who have respiratory distress with pneumonia.
Mehra explains that one consequence of endotheliitis is that blood vessels cant constrict the way they normally would. Typically, when a part of the lung becomes damaged, tiny blood vessels in that area close off so that blood will flow to a part of the lung thats still working, where it can collect oxygen. This system protects the body from a sudden drop in oxygen, and it appears to break down in patients with severe COVID-19 infections. Mehra believes the infection of the endothelium is to blame.
Thank you for finding this.
certainot
(9,090 posts)for eg.......
Many of these diseases are included in the plots in the paper by Swanson et al.
Is this all just coincidence? I dont think so. Instead, I strongly suspect that the degree to which a person is susceptible to COVID-19 is proportional to the degree to which they have been exposed to glyphosate. Eating a certified organic diet and staying away from major highways may be among the best tools for protection from an acute reaction to COVID-19.
dalton99a
(81,406 posts)CaptYossarian
(6,448 posts)Just the even-numbered ones. And the prime numbered ones weren't even lethal until 19. Go figure.
AllaN01Bear
(18,016 posts)wryter2000
(46,023 posts)Im not a medical person and dont know if the finding holds up.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)Study: The importance of proning in COVID-19 patients (x-posted from GD)
Early Self-Proning in Awake, Non-intubated Patients in the Emergency Department: A Single
EDs Experience during the COVID-19 Pandemic
Nicholas D. Caputo MD, MSc1
, Reuben J. Strayer MD2
, Richard Levitan MD3
1Department of Emergency Medicine, NYC H+H/Lincoln, Bronx, NY
2Department of Emergency Medicine, Maimonides Medical Center, Brooklyn, NY
3Department of Emergency Medicine, Littleton Regional Health, Littleton, NH
Paper made available for free through the Wiley Online Coronavirus Library portal.
become a standard treatment in the management of patients with ARDS who have difficulty
achieving adequate oxygen saturation. The purpose of this study was to describe the use of early
proning of awake, non-intubated patients in the emergency department (ED) during the COVID-19
pandemic.
SNIP
Results: Fifty patients were included. Overall, the median SpO2 at triage was 80% (IQR 69 to 85).
After application of supplemental oxygen was given to patients on room air it was 84% (IQR 75 to
90). After 5 minutes of proning was added SpO2 improved to 94% (IQR 90 to 95). Comparison of the
pre- to post-median by the Wilcoxon Rank-sum test yielded P=0.001. Thirteen patients (24%) failed
to improve or maintain their oxygen saturations and required endotracheal intubation within 24
hours of arrival to the ED.
Conclusion: Awake early self-proning in the emergency department demonstrated improved oxygen
saturation in our COVID-19 positive patients. Further studies are needed to support causality and
determine the effect of proning on disease severity and mortality
more at thread link
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)It was a very interesting concept, and so easy as a treatment.
Pobeka
(4,999 posts)Takes the belly fat pressure off the lungs and allows better breathing. What I remember is they felt this meant many patients wouldn't have to be ventilated. Can't remember where I heard/read it, but I definitely remember the part about the tables designed for pregnant women being used for obese patients.
LeftInTX
(25,149 posts)For Covid it seems to be the most effective for younger adults without comorbid features.
My mom did it to me when I had pneumonia in 1963. She was a nurse.
Just one example. I'm sure there are hundreds out there. Also percussion is often used with these techniques.
https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/postural+drainage
ancianita
(35,950 posts)NoMoreRepugs
(9,374 posts)uponit7771
(90,304 posts)Mendocino
(7,482 posts)mash up veggies with potatoes to get some vitamins and anti-oxidants into him like a 3 year old.
mysteryowl
(7,363 posts)I do wonder why it took so long to notice this issue? Thousands of cases in many countries and they never talked about this clotting issue.
Is this a mutation of the virus?
I am confident our scientists all over the world are working on learning about this virus.
Donkees
(31,344 posts)April 22, 2020
It crept up on us. We werent hearing a tremendous amount about this internationally, said Greg Piazza, a cardiovascular specialist at Brigham and Womens who has begun a study of bleeding complications of covid-19.
Helen W. Boucher, an infectious-disease specialist at Tufts Medical Center, said theres no reason to think anything is different about the virus in the United States. More likely, she said, the problem was more obvious to American doctors because of the unique demographics of U.S. patients, including large percentages with heart disease and obesity that make them more vulnerable to the ravages of blood clots. She also noted small but important differences in the monitoring and treatment of patients in ICUs in this country that would make clots easier to detect.
Part of this is by virtue of the fact that we have such incredible intensive care facilities, she said.
Early data from China on a sample of 183 patients showed more than 70 percent of patients who died of covid-19 had small clots develop throughout their bloodstream. Although acute respiratory distress syndrome still appears to be the leading cause of death in covid-19 patients, blood complications are not far behind, said Behnood Bikdeli, a fourth-year fellow at Columbia University Irving Medical Center, who helped anchor a paper about the blood clots in the Journal of The American College of Cardiology.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/22/coronavirus-blood-clots/
AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)with a rather shocking call for further studies...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4267971/
...
The dysregulation of these coagulation/anti‐coagulation cascades can result in worsening end‐stage lung disease conditions, resulting in death.
...
The twenty‐first century has demonstrated that zoonotic events will continue to introduce coronaviruses and other viruses into the human population, and that these viruses have the potential to spread rapidly, cause significant disease in communities and disrupt the global economy. An emerging theme is the connectivity between virus infection, complement and coagulation cascade activation, pro‐inflammatory and profibrotic cytokine responses and disease severity. More studies are needed to unravel the complex interactions between these pathways that can interact to promote or dysregulate wound recovery after life‐threatening respiratory virus infection.
...
This could also explain why COVID-19 was being studied in a lab, as a newly discovered "emerging coronavirus".
LAS14
(13,769 posts)Asymptomatic transmission.
Comorbidity compromise.
Unknown degree of protection after infection.
Unusual difficulties in managing ventilation.
I'm sure there are others? Can you think of them?
tia
las
ooky
(8,908 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Dan
(3,539 posts)That the more I hear about this virus, the effects, etc.,
That if I end up getting this thing, I am going to shoot it with a gun.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Midnight Writer
(21,719 posts)bluescribbler
(2,113 posts)Stay home. Stay Safe. Wash your hands.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,560 posts)My question is...this seems like a VERY obvious and horrifying symptom, one that would presumably be observed in the first smattering of hospitalized patients. Why has it taken until now to be either noticed or reported?
meadowlander
(4,388 posts)and tended to die from pneumonia or heart attack because they had weaker respiratory systems. When younger patients get it they survive the pneumonia/heart symptoms long enough for the blood clotting issues to emerge.
BigmanPigman
(51,569 posts)Happy Hoosier
(7,221 posts)cstanleytech
(26,248 posts)Now if its started sooner they could perhaps help with reducing the number of clots but to do that they need to be able to diagnose and treat those that become infected faster and with Trump and the Republicans both in the House and Senate as well at the State government level actively working to hinder that its going to be difficult to do.
keithbvadu2
(36,674 posts)Young and middle-aged people, barely sick with covid-19, are dying from strokes
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142479131
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Stephen King and all of the other horror writers who ever wrote apocalyptic end of the world stories based on some infection or disease were all just playing. All of them are child's play compared to this nasty ass virus.
I wish we could throw Trump into a volcano and make it stop, but real life is going to require real doctors and real researchers to come up with a better way to fight this stuff.
I know they like to tout aspirin as God's holy drug. Is that helping at all? What, if anything, will even begin to fight it?
Can we throw Trump into a volcano anyhow?
jimlup
(7,968 posts)tclambert
(11,085 posts)Believe that killed by causing clotting all over. It was not cured by drinking disinfectant either.
CousinIT
(9,225 posts)and remove 'constipation'.
Pfft.
CousinIT
(9,225 posts)Understanding the rampage could help the doctors on the front lines treat the fraction of infected people who become desperately and sometimes mysteriously ill. Does a dangerous, newly observed tendency to blood clotting transform some mild cases into life-threatening emergencies? Is an overzealous immune response behind the worst cases, suggesting treatment with immune-suppressing drugs could help? What explains the startlingly low blood oxygen that some physicians are reporting in patients who nonetheless are not gasping for breath? Taking a systems approach may be beneficial as we start thinking about therapies, says Nilam Mangalmurti, a pulmonary intensivist at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania (HUP). . . .
Jimbo S
(2,958 posts)I worried about others getting it, so I practice safe habits so I don't unknowingly pass to someone else. But all this time, never concerned for myself. I don't live in a hot spot and the statistics have shown my demographic fatality is a small percentage. But the news the last couple of days is a game changer.