Question: Do you think Biden will "Look forward, not backward" when it comes to prosecuting Trump?

[tecelote]

Or will justice prevail?

[TruckFump]

1. I am so hoping he does NOT do a Gerald Ford.

The RWs that enabled tRump MUST see the consequences of their conduct. Anyone and everyone — such a Barr — who let this be done to us must pay the price along with tRump.

[lagomorph777]

39. Sadly, I think he will let Trump off scot-free.

[area51]

47. +1

Dems have shown they have no spine for this.

[Bettie]

59. I think he will too

I hope he won't, but I have little hope that any of these criminals will receive any version of consequences.

[thesquanderer]

46. Actually, the "looking forward rather than back" statement is associated with Obama, not Ford,

vis-a-vis some of the activities of the Bush administration. And I really have a hard time reconciling that with another Obama statement, "we tortured some folks." Just... no.

[TruckFump]

52. I know who said it. That's not the issue

IMO when Biden beats tRump this November, he has the ability to pardon tRump for federal crimes which are charged. I do not wish tRump to get a pass as Nixon did.

[NewJeffCT]

53. Bush Sr as well

Bush senior pardoned a bunch of Iran Contra figures so we could put it behind us...

[thesquanderer]

56. Yes. And this MUST NOT happen anymore. For two big reasons...

One is that, as has often been said before, each time we excuse what happened in the past (Ford for Nixon, Bush for the Reagan administration, Obama for Bush's), we lay the groundwork for it happening again, since it demonstrates to future presidents that there are no consequences...

...but what is ESPECIALLY different this time, is that never before has it been so widely promoted (and by many, accepted) that a President is virtually immune from many kinds of investigations/punishments as long as s/he is in office. If you make him immune while IN office and also after he LEAVES office, then it means there can never be ANY way to address wrongs, s/he is forever untouchable.

[treestar]

2. Biden would have so much else to do

So much to fix. Do we have to dwell on the Dotard when we finally get him out of office?

[HarlanPepper]

29. This is closer to reality

Thirteen years later the purity left still loves to drag Obama because he chose reconstruction of the country over a long and costly political fight and public executions of Fortune 500 executives in Times Square. I suspect Biden will be facing similar choices

[Hortensis]

34. Yes. We will need to seek justice, but most of it may have to be

through prosecution of people around him.

In a very real sense, putting the nation through the massive trauma of prosecuting and imprisoning an elderly, disordered ex- president still with a loyal following would be for Democrats to continue the trauma of his presidency, instead of turning ourselves to the future and using the devastation of this tragic period as a catalyst to create a new era of progress and wellbeing.

Any way, at best for him Trump's life as he knew it is over. There will be prosecutions of business crimes, very few "important" people will associate with him, his business holdings will be devastated, and with us in office he will no longer be bringing in income by laundering Russian and middle Asian mob money.

Republican criminals in congress and other governments getting away with their dreadful crimes and remaining in power is a far bigger problem. Congressional Republicans especially are not "just" guilty of massive corruption, routine breaking of laws, systematic election thefts, sedition and even treason (lay definition), they're now soaked in blood.

[brooklynite]

3. Don't take this the wrong way, but: name a SPECIFIC Statute on which you could charge Trump?

[tecelote]

5. Emoluments

No President in history has ever been so compromised.

We should make sure it doesn't happen again.

[brooklynite]

7. The Penalty is a civil fine of $5,000...

5 U.S. Code § 7342

[tecelote]

12. How about Extorion?

18 U.S. Code § 872: “Extortion by officers or employees of the United States.

This one should be personal for our soon to be President Biden.

[tecelote]

15. Yes. The emoluments fines should be levied.

There should be consequences, even for the untouchables. You and I would be fined. Why not Trump?

[NewJeffCT]

54. per violation?

if so, multiply by the number of hotel rooms used by foreign government officials at each Trump property...

$5,000

20,000 hotel room nights booked by foreign government officials at various Trump properties around the world

that's $100 million, or 40-67% of Trump's net worth as of a few years before he ran for office. (est to be $150 to $250 million)


Then, how many rounds of golf played by foreign government officials at Trump golf courses?

then, we have domestic emoluments as well - governors and other state and local officials, business leaders, RNC gatherings, fundraisers, etc.

[tecelote]

58. Excellent point!

[rateyes]

6. Obstruction of Justice.

[Tom Rinaldo]

27. Unreported hush payments made for political purpose - violation of elections finance laws

Why should only Michael Cohen go to jail for following Trump's directives while he remains an "unindicted coconspirator" ?

There are even more serious charges of tax fraud etc still under investigation.

[tinrobot]

37. Tax fraud would be an obvious choice.

[lagomorph777]

42. Homicide.

55,000 counts and counting, due to his brazenly intentional COVID actions.

Kidnapping and murder of children, due to his inhumane border policy.

[thesquanderer]

43. There are investigations in progress. They should not necessarily be rendered moot if Trump loses

in November.

[dansolo]

4. He may not prosecute Trump directly

But I expect him to go after everyone around him. Why even go up against the argument of presidential "immunity"? I want to see Jared Kushner fry even more than Trump.

[Solomon]

21. What fucking presidential immunity?

What the fuck is that!?

[lagomorph777]

44. It's a right-wing fantasy.

There's no such thing in the Constitution or statute, no matter how hard BillBarr pretends.

[JHB]

23. Presidential "immunity" is a Justice Department policy to not prosecute sitting presidents

After he's out, he doesn't qualify no matter what the argument.

[lagomorph777]

45. The Constitution prohibits such immunity, and there is no such statute.

DOJ "policy" is contrary to the Constitution and the law, and needs to be corrected. It must not stand in the way of solving the GOP's steady criminal escalation ever since Nixon.

Trump must pay for his crimes.

[JHB]

49. But neither Trump nor the Republicans will move to change it...

...and once he's out, it no longer applies to him.

[lagomorph777]

50. ??? No, once he's out he no longer even has the pretense of immunity.

He goes from lame duck to sitting duck, should Biden choose to re-establish the rule of law.

[JHB]

51. That's what I said originally. What was your beef with it?

[lagomorph777]

60. I misread your 2nd post. "no longer applies"

I took it as "prosecution no longer applies."

My apology for my misunderstanding.

[JHB]

61. No problem. Have a good day

[NewJeffCT]

55. The DOJ stated that

when Nixon was president and then re-affirmed it under Clinton when the Lewinsky thingie started. So, not exactly a strong legacy.

[JHB]

57. Yes, but there's no way it's going to change under Trump...

...and after him it doesn't apply because he's no longer the sitting president.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

8. If tRump family gang is not punished hard, Greed Over People will try again. But

... In some ways electoral reform is even more important. Get rid of gerrymandering and voter suppression once and for all. Recountable paper ballots, perhaps produced by machine and scannable, but a physical ballot that the voter approves.

Ideally, get rid of the Electoral College. It is a useless relic. But that is a harder project.

So much to do if Biden gets the Senate as well as the House.

[tecelote]

13. If tRump family gang is not punished hard, Greed Over People will try again.

Absolutely!

[Solly Mack]

9. I'm not holding my breath on justice being served.

The Bush administration getting away with war crimes should have quashed the whole no one is above the law feel-good spiel. Because, clearly, some people can get away with any crime. No matter how heinous.

Sure, people should aspire for better. But there comes a point when an aspiration is little more than a slogan. An oft-quoted (supposed) tenet that has been reduced to a catchphrase for justice but in no way reflecting the reality.

Sounds good to say and it sounds good to hear, but saying it is as far as it goes.

[blueinredohio]

10. Agreed

[bluecollar2]

11. There will be a call for national healing...

We must let bygones be bygones...the American people want ...etc.....

[Maxheader]

14. Not likely..Imho..

Too much involvement..complicity amongst the congress dudes..

Sure. I'd like to see the whole family behind bars...Same with mcConnell and his merry

band of criminals..

[betsuni]

16. Democrats have to clean up messes Republicans leave behind, as usual.

Use the slim weak power they have for short periods to try to get something good done for Americans. Going after organized criminal Republicans isn't worth it -- Americans think "both sides" and just blame Democrats.

[Chainfire]

17. It would be best

To just leave Trump to the garbage pile of history.

Biden should install an AG that follows the law, and then let him or her do their job. If states need to prosecute him for crimes, he should not interfere.

Persecuting Trump would only extend the pain. We need to get over the "lock her up" mentality.

I think Biden will do the right thing.

[42bambi]

18. History alone will be the ultimate prosecution in regards to Trump's own

actions, words, illegal activities, etc., while serving as President of the US. History books will be his final judge.

[Chemisse]

19. It would be untenable to let an entire crime family off the hook.

It's not just Trump. And his progeny will continue lives of crime if they are not stopped.

[tecelote]

20. Totally agree!

There has to be consequences.

[JHB]

22. What's needed isn't necessarily prosecution but full, unobstructed investigations...

Of Trump's (and his family's) dealings both before and during his term, of the Republicans actions in voter suppression and taking foreign money, etc. Also media control and the political money flows that drive all of the above.

Prosecutions may come from those, are very likely to, but not everything will be prosecutable. However, it is essential that real facts and hard information comes out. That is where they cannot be given a pass, where we can't just let bygones be bygones.

[Hekate]

82. Right: Investigations that will take place in the House, DOJ, and (gods willing) a Dem Senate

Not to mention outlying states.

Separation of powers, and all that.

[gibraltar72]

24. Glenn Kirshner has a plan for that.

[theaocp]

25. There is no evidence that justice will prevail.

Patterns suggest Democrats will let it go and say, “Bad party! Don’t do it again!” Americans will subtly absorb the idea that it wasn’t that bad ultimately because those responsible were not held accountable. Scumbags everywhere will take note and feel emboldened.

[HarlanPepper]

26. Here come the purity tests.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

28. Lmaoooooo.

[JI7]

30. Democrats would have to win big in the Senate and House

and presidency.

[Steelrolled]

31. By then I think everyone, not the lease being Joe Biden, will

understand that old saying....

Never Wrestle with a Pig. You Both Get Dirty and the Pig Likes It

Frankly, I don't why it is taking this long.

[The Magistrate]

32. It Might Be Best, Sir

To leave the matter to state prosecution for various frauds committed before taking office. And of course civil suits for sexual misconduct now being delayed by essentially frivolous claims the cheap thug can't be sued while in office would be free to proceed with a hitch.

[nolabear]

71. Best reply so far. Let him get swarmed while Biden fixes the mess.

It’ll take a generation really, but Biden needs to be on it fast and hard, with endless coverage about both getting us out of the mess and setting up safeguards to keep us from getting into it again—and Congress needs to pass legislation preventing future presidents from dismantling them.

[Happy Hoosier]

33. If I were him....

I would ask The USAG to review the evidence and make a reommendation.

Then get on to governing.

I want the asshole, I really do. But we have to show we can govern and solve problems.

[Ferrets are Cool]

35. OrangeAnus will not be prosecuted for his crimes

JMO, even if his entire family has to leave the country.

[tinrobot]

36. Why not just let New York do the honors? Send him to Rikers for tax fraud.

State's rights and all.

[Takket]

38. I don't think it will matter

Drumpf is going to blanket pardon himself and his entire administration before leaving office. It will be up to the State of New York to prosecute him. That is why he moved his residence to a Florida so DeSantis can fight extradition to NY.

[Beringia]

40. He will look forward for sure

I don't know if even Sanders would take the road of trying to get justice. Dems are just treading water at this point.

[kentuck]

41. Depends on who he gets for Attorney General?

I suppose that "investigations" will continue?

[thesquanderer]

48. One reason I want Warren as VP is for her to be there to exert pressure in the other direction. nt

[MineralMan]

62. He should start by handing that off to his Attorney General.

He's going to be very busy after taking office. Let the AG investigate Trump and charge him.

[Azathoth]

63. Obama deluding himself into thinking he was being "post-partisan"

gave us Trump. The message the GOP took from Obama's presidency was that there was absolutely nothing they could do that would have consequences for them beyond losing a single election cycle. They could literally run a mass torture program, and the penalty would be two years out of power whining on Fox.

If Biden hasn't learned that lesson by now, we're in trouble.

[JI7]

64. no, racist white people gave us Trump

[Azathoth]

66. That doesn't refute what I said

Racist white people have been the GOP base for 40 years. But we haven't seen 40 years of Trumps.

It was during and after Dubya that the GOP abandoned even the pretense that laws mean something. They've concluded that there is simply no penalty no matter how far they go.

[JI7]

67. the penalty is through elections. majority of white people voted for Bush and trump

they keep doing what they do becsuse white people keep supporting them.

[Azathoth]

73. Tell that to several past governors of Illinois

Elections are a reward, not a punishment. No one is entitled to hold office.

Rampant criminal behavior has to be punished, or it breeds complete contempt for the very notion of laws. You end up with what we saw in the Senate, where McConnell just outright declared he would nullify impeachment before the trial even started, simply because he could. Even in the 90's, that kind of delegitimization of constitutional process would have been unthinkable for a Republican majority leader. Sure, they would still have acquitted him, but the vote would have been closer, and they would have done an elaborate kabuki dance to try and respect the process and the independence of the Senate. Today, they don't even try, and that's a sign of a failed state.

There have to be consequences for crime beyond losing an election. Otherwise it's like saying your punishment for robbing a bank is being banned from the bank for two years.

[JI7]

80. white people keep electing McConnell

it's not Obama's fault white people vote for racists

[Celerity]

65. I think if Trump loses, Barr will have pardons at the ready for Trump to cover everyone but himself,

and if he cannot pardon himself (it is up in the air, and the SCOTUS may not have times to decide it), he might resign a day before his term ends, and have Pence pardon him, which almost guarantees sainthood for Pence with the base d'Rump and sets him up instantly as the 2024 frontrunner, unless Rump insanely (and he is insane) tries to run again himself in 2024.

Any real justice is going to have to come from the States. As for Biden's outlook, I think he will do a 'look forward' anyway.

Trump has set so many staggeringly dangerous precedents that WILL come back to haunt the nation down the road.

[not_the_one]

68. Late to the party, but if Biden DOESN'T hold the entire gang (plus enablers) accountable,

HE will have succeeded in doing what the turd couldn't.

DESTROY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!

If he does do the right thing, HE wouldn't be the one to prosecute anyone, it would be his attorney general. So he could get on with healing the country.

But NOT doing anything would cause a HUGE number of democrats to say "FUCK. IT."

We have spent decades fighting them, only to roll over when it gets tough. "Spineless" and "democrats" have become synonymous. ENOUGH.

I have voted in every federal general election my entire life. I voted for ONE republican, Ford. I didn't trust a "christian" in the white house. Boy did I get THAT one wrong. I STILL don't trust THEM, but Jimmy Carter was probably the most honorable person to have ever held that office.

If nothing is done they will continue to piss all over the constitution, AND get away with it. Because they KNOW the democrats will, EVERYTIME, roll over.

I have had ENOUGH. I will NOT be a party to that. And there are a LOT more out there who feel the same way.

So we have two options...

Win and hold them accountable, taking down the outrage personified, sitting and shitting in the white house, and completely DESTROYING the republican party ALONG with the hate filled "so-called christians" they rode in on, for decades, if not forever, OR

Win and do nothing. For the good of the country.

You know damn well that IF there is no accountability, they will take Ahnold's warning to heart, and "THEY'LL BE BACK". The "so-called christians" will be absolutely DRUNK with power, and make SURE the republican party skews even FURTHER OFF THE CLIFF. Remember, THEY are hoping and praying to bring on "the end of times'. SERIOUSLY! They are that far gone.

I'm old. Obviously. The Boomers are still a force, and there are a LOT of us who are still true to our ideals, who didn't sell out. AND we are angry and we vote. But at some point we can accept what has been handed us and say "WHY BOTHER?"

For me, this election is the line in the sand. The party can "dance with the person who brung 'em," or I am gonna "sashay away". WE no longer have the time to wait.

I won't have to sit back and watch reality shows, I can just sit back and watch reality. And based on the previews, the next season is going to be a REAL nail biter. I have stocked up on popcorn. I will just sit back and watch the show.

I hope I will be watching the long running series on The True American Democracy, Of, By, and For The People. Or I may be watching The End Of The American Experiment.

November 3rd can't get here fast enough...

[tecelote]

72. Great response.

As you said... But NOT doing anything would cause a HUGE number of democrats to say "FUCK. IT."

We have spent decades fighting them, only to roll over when it gets tough. "Spineless" and "democrats" have become synonymous. ENOUGH.

[Bettie]

79. I agree

and the next Republican criminal will be FAR worse, because if what is happening now isn't enough for Democrats to say "Enough", then there is no line.

[jalan48]

69. Of course. If he wins the country will be facing so many serious problems Trump will become an

afterthought. Hopefully, states like New York will go after Trump and his grifting family.

[Enoki33]

70. Definitely not too early to begin thinking about this. It would be a

grave disservice to this democracy to pardon his crimes and allow him and his coven to keep their plundered money. Additionally, as a country we have to put new laws in place to prevent another president, especially a deranged one, from assuming unrecognized power. There has to a clarity of the boundaries of presidential power.

[kairos12]

74. I think, as Dems do, he will say any prosecution of a Republican will only cause more harm.

Chump and his grifter family gets a pass.

[RussBLib]

75. Better do both n/t

[rockfordfile]

76. I would think most Americans would like trump and other GOP held accountable

Not doing so is what makes Americans distrust their government.

[Demsrule86]

77. The president does not prosecute anyone...the AG should look into it. And we are

in the beginning of a great depression 2020 version...are we really going to have the resources to prosecute Trump? He will probably pardon himself of all crimes anyway which means states will be the only option we have.

[aikoaiko]

78. Probably.

[Hekate]

81. Answer: Don't put this all on Biden. If Pelosi still runs the House...

...any number of Committees will continue the investigative work they have already been doing. If (gods willing) Dems also take the Senate, bills that come from the House will actually get dealt with.

IF we have President Biden, he is going to have his hands full with Great Depression 2. The federal government has lost an untold number of career civil servants (along with their institutional memory), and whole departments have been demolished.

Then, for the midterm elections we have to do it all over again: GOTV, and hope that American voters do not, once again, treat a midterm as a referendum on the POTUS and send him a House and Senate of the opposing party. Because that's what we stupidly do, time and again.

I think that IF Biden is president, we need to support him and trust him. He'll have enough sabotage and savagery coming from the right, without the left complaining that he is not the Second Coming of Christ.

[tecelote]

83. Without the left complaining that he is not the Second Coming of Christ?

Wow! Expecting justice is too much?

Not holding this administration accountable just welcomes it back again. Only worse because... no consequences.

Biden will be President and I expect a just government.

[Hekate]

84. How shall I put this?

DU fostered a group of people who were so hateful toward Obama, right from the time he won the election (ie before Inauguration) that there were a whole bunch of us who just wanted to give the guy a chance who ended up spending nearly 8 years in the BOG.

I have not forgotten or forgiven, and sometimes events here trigger me. (I'm sure you personally would never have had anything to do with that old history, though.)

Joe Biden has a long and very liberal political record, and many accomplishments. You'll have a "just government" -- why ever would you think otherwise?

[tecelote]

85. Obama was the best President in my long lifetime.

I expect Biden to be a contender. He has my total support.

I just think that holding Trump accountable is important. Republicans do what they do because they can.

Obama was not perfect and I think the people who approved of torture should have been held accountable. A failure of the Obama administration in my opinion. Biden is accountable as well.

Still, I'll tell anyone that I consider Obama the best of the best. I'm proud he was elected in my lifetime.

I hope Biden will rise to the challenge. I will always express my views and discuss what I expect from him.

[LanternWaste]

86. The one does not deny the other.

Premise rejected in favor of rational thought.