Unmarried Women with No Kids Are the 'Healthiest and Happiest, says expert

[CousinIT]

https://people.com/parents/women-happiest-without-kids-husband-spouse-study/

"If you're a man, you should probably get married; if you're a woman, don't bother," said Paul Dolan, a professor of behavioral science

Good news for women feeling pressure to rush toward the altar and/or motherhood: You might be happier (and live longer!) just the way you are.

As reported by The Guardian, professor of behavioral science Paul Dolan said on Saturday that while “married people are happier than other population subgroups,” that only applies to “when their spouse is in the room when they’re asked how happy they are.”

“When the spouse is not present: f—ing miserable,” added Dolan, who teaches at the London School of Economics, adding, “The healthiest and happiest population subgroup are women who never married or had children.”

Dolan’s comments come shortly after the release of his book Happy Ever After: Escaping the Myths of the Perfect Life which, according to The Guardian, reflects on data from the American Time Use Survey (ATUS) that polled different types of people — single, married, separates, divorced and widowed — to compare happiness levels.

Interestingly, the opposite was true for men — meaning they seemed to get more of a benefit from marriage than women because, as Dolan explained, they “calmed down” after tying the knot.

“You take less risks, you earn more money at work and you live a little longer,” he said. “She, on the other hand, has to put up with that, and dies sooner than if she never married.”

[mucifer]

1. But those women get old so there's that. I am getting on in years and regret my

decisions of being alone.

[CousinIT]

2. True. But being miserable for 50 years to not be alone for 20?

I dunno.

[Loki Liesmith]

5. "Miserable for 50 years"

Is laying it on a little thick.

[CousinIT]

16. Being that it's the woman/wife who does most of the domestic work & child-rearing

ALL of the child-bearing too, and most everything else in the home (in most - NOT ALL - cases), I guess you could call it "burdened", sort of like a mule, or "in servitude" sort of like a nanny/maid/personal assistant for 1 or more other people.

But...whatever you call it, it's a LOT of work...which usually falls on one person.

I know the arguments are coming: "well I do housework" (men) or, "well my husband does as much or more than I do around the house!" (women). Those are real. I believe them. BUT -- the are exceptions, not the rule or even the norm.

[HarlanPepper]

27. Link?

Not saying you’re wrong but not a fan of generalizations especially when they feel very dated on first blush.

[CousinIT]

40. History. Present.

Do you need a link to tell you the sky is blue?

Really?

[HarlanPepper]

44. Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Phoenix61]

56. Women do more of the household chores

and child care duties than their male spouses. It has gotten better over time but it’s still not equal.

https://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_images.jsp?cntn_id=111458
The amount of housework done by women has decreased since 1976, while the amount of housework done by men has doubled. In 1976, women did about 26 hours of housework a week; in 2005, they did about 16.5. Men did about six hours a week in 1976, and in 2005, they did about 12.5.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/589237/
Married American mothers spend
almost twice as much time on housework and child care than do married fathers. Although American mothers—including those with young children—are far more likely to be working now than in past decades, they spend more time on child care today than did moms in the 1960s.

[cwydro]

119. Boom.

I thought everyone knew this.

[CousinIT]

126. Thank you. It's common knowledge. Wasn't about to be forced to 'prove' it.

Society has known for years - like the sky is up. Smoking causes lung disease and such. Sheesh.

[HarlanPepper]

177. You said it's not the norm for men to do housework of ANY KIND which is nonsense

That’s what you were asked to prove.

[Bettie]

52. Even with me as an at-home mom

when my husband is home, he does a lot of housework and did a lot of childcare when he was home.

We're on our 31st year and both happy with our lives. Even with these couple of months with everyone at home, we're all getting along and actually having fun most days.

When the kids were small, it was brutal at times, since the husband traveled internationally sometimes for weeks at a time, but that passed. We even got through the Surprise kid's inability to sleep more than 4 hours at a shot for his first 18 months.

All of that aside, I also know maybe three other couples who are happy. Most of the women I know aren't happy in their marriages and a handful actively hate their husbands.

I was fortunate to find "my person" early in my life.

[helpisontheway]

83. Exactly my experience..Married to high school sweetheart for 28 years

He is my partner in every way. I stayed home most of our marriage. He never hesitated to cook dinner, clean or start laundry if needed. We are a team. I will admit that it was very difficult when our kids were young. He would go on long deployments (3 months, 6 months) with the Navy. I was young and live 3,000 miles from family. It was tough but we made it. Now we spend every single day together and we love it. So happy that I found my person early in life. 🙂

[Bettie]

84. That's how we are

though I met him when I was in college. We just fit.

Glad to hear from someone else who has that experience!

This is not to say that sometimes he doesn't make me very annoyed! And, as he gets older, he's kind of cranky! LOL.

[CousinIT]

128. Yea I know there are these exceptions.

You are very lucky! Unfortunately for most women, their experiences are not like yours.

[Demsrule86]

138. I also have been happily married for years and have wonderful kids...can't imagine why one would

want to be alone. I can't imagine going home alone and having no one to share my day with.

[coti]

125. I find that I take as much or more responsibility and put in as much or more time and energy

taking care of our family as my wife. The main difference is that I don't complain about it.

[mucifer]

7. to be an old lady with no children gets rough I see the difference as a nurse in what I witness

[whathehell]

12. Not every "old lady" regrets not having children

nor does beung unmarried and childless necessarily equate to "being alone".

[CousinIT]

18. That's the case w/ the ladies I know.

3 of them - one in my family . Busy with hobbies, friends, volunteering, part-time work and keeping in touch with neighbors and neighborhood - and other family members (siblings mostly). They don't seem lonely, alone or regretful at all. The family one is in her 60s. The others are 50s and 70s.

[whathehell]

25. Many may also have partners, or are currently dating. n/t.

[maddiemom]

60. Since single women were "allowed" to have sexual relationships without marriage AND

divorce became more common, things changed quit a bit. My generation of women were just on the cusp of this. My daughter's generation have it so much better. Shows such as "Mad Men" are hard for them to believe, even when told there was more "hanky panky" on those shows than in real life at the time. They just thought it was crazy. There actually WERE scandals back then, with many references to "Peyton Place."

[Mossfern]

113. I worked in an ad agency around that time

and in reality there WAS that much hanky panky going on. People kept bottles of booze in their desk drawers and smoked in the office. It was wild! I was the assistant to the VP and in charge of keeping the art department under control. Those times were insane. There were no computers then and everything was cut and paste as in real cutting and real pasting. I dated the traffic coordinator, but decided that it may become complicated, so cut it off. Those were the days of the three martini lunches.

The agency represented pharmaceuticals so there were always free birth control pills thrown on my desk whenever there were meetings with clients.

[maddiemom]

127. Interesting to know!

I'm old enough to remember smoking at work. In fact, though teachers couldn't smoke in the classroom, the faculties' lounges were usually hazy. I can remember when college professors (and sometimes their students) did, however. I especially remember the prof who stubbed his out in the chalk trays. I was a young "corporate wife" for a while when three martini lunches were very popular. I really meant to emphasize the manner in which women were still treated professionally. My daughter has worked in advertising in more recent years, and apparently it is still, comparatively, very casual.

[kskiska]

172. I worked in the advertising dept. and was one of the cutters and pasters.

Yes, there were loads of hanky-panky going on - secretaries being brought along on "business conferences" in Puerto Rico and other activities. Women washed the boss's coffee cups and there was an office manager specifically for female employees. There were very few departments headed by women. One of the salesmen (territory manager) was a foot fetishist and made a beeline for my feet at a party when I momentarily slipped my foot out of a tight shoe.

[Demovictory9]

37. "old lady"?

[obamanut2012]

88. lol wtaf

I cannot believe you are posting these things seriously. So not factual.

[Demsrule86]

31. I am happily married and have four wonderful kids...and knowing single women who never had kids...

they are not particularly happy. Also, jobs are an issue starting in your 40's. Many women end up unemployed in their middle years.

[whathehell]

38. Age discrimination is an "issue" whether you're married or not

Yes, the former may have husbands for financial support (and if they have four kids, one would hope so), but the single & childless I know tend to look younger, maybe because they have the time and money to "keep up appearances", as it were.

[Demsrule86]

140. I actually worked for most of my life...off work now as I was taking care of my sis in law before

she fell, but I will go back to work in the fall. I have a wonderful husband ,kids and a job...and as for single women. I see women in my church who are single and haven't got the money to spend on themselves and look much older. As for looking younger when I went to my local High School where I will teach next year, I was asked for my 'pass'. I was delighted of course as I have two kids in college. What I see here is a stereotype, I have seen single women as they age become quite lonely. I think it is sad when one is alone for years. I wouldn't like it being a social person. And while this study say women are happier, I don't believe it. I have also that read having many social contacts and exercise is very good for older people and helps stave off Alzheimers.

[whathehell]

152. Then I guess

your experience has been differrent than mine, the women in the study, and many here.

Have a good one.

[obamanut2012]

89. lolz wtf are these replies like this?

I know none of you mean to sound the way you do, but what you are saying is not only kinda terrible, but not factual.

[Squinch]

107. The resistance to the idea that single child-free women are, on the whole, really, really happy

is very telling.

Society has always told us this shouldn't be true. Society does not like us, really. Society certainly doesn't respect the idea of us.

And part of why we are happier is because we don't really give a shit about what society thinks!

[cwydro]

120. Yup.

Spot on.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

133. I chose to not have kids

Marriage was hell on me. My ex was smart but never helped with anything,lazy. I got sick of his crap and divorced him . My life is much better now.

[Demsrule86]

143. I think people should do what makes them happy. Not all women or men for that matter are single by

choice either. But the single women I know from my church are not particularly happy. Many are still dating. I can't even imagine dating that long. The ones I know seem to be lonely especially the ones who don't have much family as in sisters, brother,aunts or cousins etc. I don't say my choice (marriage and kids) is for everyone, but plenty of women find happiness this way.

[meadowlander]

147. Plenty of women find happiness the other way as well

notwithstanding the handful of people you know from church who you are assuming are lonely.

The best decision of my life was not to get married or have kids. I can travel wherever I want whenever I want, I can sleep in, I've never spent a moment wiping someone else's ass. There's no argument about which sofa to buy, I buy the one I want. I don't have to plan any meals around anyone else's tastes. I get the whole fridge, the whole closet, the whole bathroom counter to myself. I haven't had an argument with anyone since I moved out of my parents' house 26 years ago. It's great.

And I'm not contributing to the over-population of the planet or screwing up someone else's life with any of my character defects.

The only (minor) irritation is the number of people who find it simply unfathomable that anyone could be happy who doesn't choose to live in exactly the way that they do.

People are different and have different wants and needs. You shouldn't project your requirements on to everyone else.

[Demsrule86]

150. I wasn't assuming they were lonely. They said so. Well enjoy. I would find your life very

unfulfilling. I like sharing a life with those I love. but to each their own.

[meadowlander]

151. How very rude and condescending of you.

Why do you assume that only people who are married and have kids are "sharing a life with those they love"?

I have my dream job, live in my dream city, have lived on five continents, bought my own house which I love, have a great circle of friends that I get to see on my terms.

Your judgment on my life as "unfulfilling" without knowing the first thing about it except that I chose not to get married or have kids is grossly inappropriate. It's 2020. You're a democrat. You can really do better if you try.

[Squinch]

161. Why do you need to denigrate the life someone else has chosen

Last edited Thu Apr 30, 2020, 06:39 AM - Edit history (1)

to live and is happy living? Your responses in this thread are very aggressive in fighting the data.

Why do you need to think that only those who have made the same choices as you can be happy? The data here is telling you you are very wrong in that conclusion.

Your need to lash out at that poster seems astonishingly defensive and is telling more than your words do about your feelings around this issue and the conclusions of the study.

And by the way, those conclusions are nothing new. These kinds of findings have been replicated every time this question is asked. On the whole, single and child free women are happier than married ones.

[Arazi]

153. !!!

[Squinch]

160. And yet this data shows that, on the whole, they are happier than

Last edited Thu Apr 30, 2020, 06:46 AM - Edit history (1)

men and married women. Seems like you may be projecting something on the single women you know that isn't there, or not noticing the sadness and anger that many of your married friends feel.

This dats says you are.

Why is everyone on this thread so freaked by the idea that single, child free women are happy? (As if we didn't know! )

[Squinch]

106. Data says different. Data says that, on the whole, they are happier than the rest of the

population.

Man, people are really resistant to accepting this fact.

It's cracking me up.

[lagomorph777]

39. I wish I'd thought of that before getting married.

As a man, I think there is a significant part of the male population who would be better off single. I KNOW I would.

[Butterflylady]

49. Be careful what you wish for!

[lagomorph777]

51. I was careful about that for a long time.

35 years of abuse have shown me the foolishness of buying the myth.

Unfortunately there is no realistic way out. Medical and mental health issues would make it impossible for her to survive on her own, and there is no realistic alternative, financially.

[SergeStorms]

66. I got married at 27....

was divorced at 32, and I've never seen a reason to jump back into that trap again. I'm 70 now, and the only miserable days I've had since my divorce have had a woman connected to them. I'm just the type of guy that can't be restrained in any way. I was able to calm my wild side by myself, and if more men exercised a little self-control they could make it without the marriage trap as well.
I do have a daughter with one of the women I became loosely attached to in the early 80s, and I've taken full responsibility for that. She grew up to be a fine young lady, has two Masters Degrees (I paid for every bit of her education), and she's now married with two children. I spoil the heck out of those grandkids, and I've had a wonderful, happy life.

There are exceptions to every rule. I'm one of those men who would never be successfully married. I just hate having the reins pulled in on me, although I've managed to rein myself in pretty good when needed. I can't imagine what my life would be like if I were still married.

[lagomorph777]

71. Your life is mine in a parallel universe.

You took the road less traveled, and I took the road to Hell.

[raccoon]

79. You are as rare as a black swan, if you paid for your daughter's education. Good for you. nt

[DFW]

114. Another black swan here, then

My daughters both went to college (and one to grad school) in the USA, and one went to a boarding school there for her last 2 years of high school. I blew every cent of cash that I inherited from my parents on that schooling, and I don't regret a cent of it.

On the other hand, I had the good fortune to meet my future wife at age 22, and knew right then that she was the "one." She took some convincing, since she had never met an American before, thought I was somewhat exotic, and North America was as distant to her as the dark side of the moon. We're now 68, and after 46 years, I'm anything BUT a hermit. I know that if I lost her, I'd try to start over again eventually, and would fail miserably.

[Skittles]

142. oh yes

actually true for a significant part of the population, whatever their gender

people are WAY too conditioned to be married and have kids

[sarge43]

47. Being married and having children doesn't guarantee a woman won't be alone in old age.

Last edited Thu Apr 30, 2020, 06:47 AM - Edit history (1)

Husband, one way or another, may not be there.

Kids and grandkids may not come flocking to take care of the matriarch.

[misanthrope]

130. Especially if she is psychologically abusive and highly unstable

Some mothers make it as difficult as possible for anyone involved.

[whathehell]

154. ..Or especially if he is "psychologically abusive and highly unstable"

Some fathers are from Hell.

[misanthrope]

157. I thought we were talking about a matriarch in solitude

and why kids might not be there to take care of her.

[whathehell]

158. What applies to a matriarch can as easily apply to a patriarch.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

171. FYI - second-guessing and regrets of any type come with the territory of getting older. If you had

made a different decision, youd be having different regrets.

Ask me how I know this....

[Squinch]

3. I always knew this.

[KPN]

58. Lol! Lucky you!

[Baclava]

4. No regrets till they hit 45, find themselves all alone and that money isn't everything to life?

[CousinIT]

10. Hmm...I know women well beyond that age who are unmarried, no kids and...

...quite happy.

[JenniferJuniper]

13. Not having a husband doesn't make you "all alone"

And you can't necessarily count on kids to be there for you. My great aunt had five of them, and ended up living with a niece in her last years.

My own mother wore herself out taking care of her husband with dementia and ended up dying long before him.

Unmarried women can always save their money and move into a nice assisted living facility when the time comes. Lots of friends and activites. And weekly housekeeping.

[Demsrule86]

32. Personally, I would rather die then end up in an assisted living facility or nursing home.

[JenniferJuniper]

33. Have you been to an assisted living facility lately?

Most people living there love them. Private apartments with kitchens, dining rooms, libraries, activites. I could seriously live in the one my aunt is at right now and be quite happy.

They aren't nursing homes and most people move in voluntarily.

[Marrah_Goodman]

73. Those nice assisted living places with apartments and such are very expensive, at least here

My parents are well off and have been looking into them but the cost is very, very high. Besides Dad says he isn't ready to leave their home in a retirement community yet. I don't think he ever will be ready. Mom would move to one in a heartbeat if they could find one at a reasonable cost.

[JenniferJuniper]

85. They are super expensive,

most people need to sell their homes first. If it is at all economically feasable, bring him on a tour of a nice one with great reviews when this crap is all over. My father was supposed to move into the memory care floor of an assisted living facility just as the virus was starting so he's still with me now. But he was thrilled when he saw the apartment and the facility. Not that he remembers it now.

15 miles from Boston, hotel like atmosphere, one bedroom suite, and 24 hour assistance. It's 4600 a month, which he can mostly swing with his pension and SS. He'll be much happier and safer there. Assuming our long national nightmare ever ends.

[Marrah_Goodman]

102. Do you mind if I ask which one?

My parents are also looking in the Boston area.

[JenniferJuniper]

108. Sure

The Arbors. There are several of them in the Boston area.

I was in and out of the place several times and each time it was spotless and filled with busy people.

Of course, two people is that much more money, but it was a bargain compared to some other nice places.

[whathehell]

155. Boston is very expressive, period.

It has some of the highest priced real estate in the nation.

[Marrah_Goodman]

166. Yes, I know

Last edited Thu Apr 30, 2020, 11:35 AM - Edit history (1)

It is ridiculous!

[whathehell]

176. I like the city, but

the housing prices are almost on par with New York and San Francisco.

[Demsrule86]

134. Yes my sis in law is in one...it is fine I guess, but not for me.

[Squinch]

109. Lots of married and widowed ladies in those places.

[Demsrule86]

135. And? I do not wish to be taken care of. My sis in law is in one and honestly, they give me the

creeps...in terms of my actually living there. I want to live on my own, eat what I choose, drink good coffee that I make and go where I please...The people are nice but most places are understaffed and at least once a year there is a charge of abuse...Just before the virus hit, a small group of elderly people wanted to have a bible study...the aids were no where to be found even though it was scheduled...I wheeled those who needed help into the room and got the bibles down for them...they are on top of the shelves for some unknown reason. This is on their recreation list but half the time, the things listed don't happen. I happened to be visiting my sister in law.

[JenniferJuniper]

145. No one wants to be "taken care of"

but reality sucks and many people need help with daily living activities when they get into their late 70's and 80's.

People in assisted living facilities are not trapped and if they aren't in a memory ward, they can come and go as they please. You can have your own car if you are able to drive.

My aunt has MS and COPD. She's only 69 but has too many physical limitations to live fully on her own. So she lives as independent a life as she can with a lot of friends and help with things she needs help with. Whenever she needs it. She has her own furniture, her own kitchen - including her own Keurig.

[Jirel]

14. What a blind response.

Childfree people love being CF. Quite a few feel no need for a spouse, but take joy in friendship and community. It may not be right for you, but don’t assume anyone else is like you. It’s about as offensive as assuming a gay person “just hasn’t found the right person to be straight with.”

[CousinIT]

21. True.

It's assumed that unmarried and childless is an eventuality or a 'situation' forced on someone. More often than not, it's a CHOICE and those who consciously made it are happy with it.

[Baclava]

23. This guy is just pimping his books, junk science at that, and "I've never read a novel in my life"

[HarlanPepper]

30. Some people with kids like to project I've noticed.

“Really, you don’t want kids? You’ll be miserable if you don’t have them. Really! You will! Trust me! Did I mention parenting is wonderful god damnit!”

Have seen it more than once as they make the case through exacerbation and gritted teeth.

[smirkymonkey]

42. Thank YOU!

[misanthrope]

131. Another offensive statement toward the child-free: "I feel sorry for you."

The people who utter that are completely blind to their own levels of arrogance and condescension.

[Squinch]

164. Or they are fighting hard against the sadness that comes from

knowing deep down that they aren't very happy themselves.

I'm seeing lots of projection in this thread. At first I thought it was hilarious how hard people were fighting against the possibility that my choices have made me as happy as I am today.

But a closer reading shows some seem to desperately need to believe their choices (marriage and children) are intrinsically better than the alternatives. Some are actively denigrating single older women and stating that we are all sad, though the data clearly shows the opposite.

There is always sadness under such strong projection.

[gypsy11]

22. I'm 50

Never married or had kids. Absolutely zero regrets. In fact, the older I get, the more I realize my decisions not to marry or have children were the right ones for me. Particularly with the way the world is today. I’m sure if I did have children I’d be riddled with guilt over what they will look forward to when they are old- climate change alone is going to be a huge challenge for the younger generations. Hell, it’ll be a challenge for my generation!!

[Baclava]

26. There are always exceptions, but this guy's books are full of fake "facts", his data's debunked

[Squinch]

72. Lol! You really don't like the idea of happy childless older women, do you?

You know this is a fairly common finding, don't you?

[Baclava]

86. I am objecting to a behavorial scientist spouting data claims that are false just to sell his books

None of his books are peer reviewed, or even fact checked before printing, he just pumps out books with glaring errors in research and the public never questions.

[Squinch]

90. He must be awful to be quoting this data, which is nothing new and has been found

in many studies!

But then, you KNEW the backlash was coming.

[Baclava]

97. This board needed spicing up, too much doom n gloom, I am happy to oblige, lol

[smirkymonkey]

115. I'm kind of getting that impression.

I have never wanted children, but at no time have I been happier that I don't have any than right now during this quarantine. I hear about how my family members and friends with kids are going insane being cooped up with their kids all day and I am as happy as a clam being single and child-free.

[jmbar2]

59. I'm female, in my 60s never married, no kids

I can think of very few married women I'd trade places with. Especially the retired couples where the husband doesn't know what to do with himself, so he makes managing the household his new job.

I love my sib's kids like they were my own, but don't think I would be able to deal with their problems as well as their mom has.

I never felt it was fair to expect kids to take care of you when you get old. If they do, that's wonderful. When I was spending time with an elder relative in a nursing home, way too many people had no visitors. Kids are no guarantee that you won't get dumped when you are at your neediest.

Part of me would still like to fall in love with the perfect partner. But it's mostly a fantasy at my age. I envy married people who still like to cuddle.

I hope I croak before needing to go to "the home". Otherwise, life is pretty good.

[Jirel]

76. Heck, yeah.

I’m married, but we’ve chosen never to have kids. If I hadn’t found this particular one, I’d be happier single.

[misanthrope]

132. I thought the same

I have a niece and nephews that, since the day they were born, I've thought about the awful climate change-related things they will witness in their lives. They are college aged right now.

Another reason I have to be thankful I'm child-free is that I would never, never, never want to raise children in the town in which I've been trapped. I have watched how outsized cultural pressures are on people and it would basically be a guarantee that kids brought up in this environment would turn out to be "part of the problem" and not "the solution."

[whathehell]

29. So as a man, you assume 45 is a woman's 'cut off' age?

Sounds like a bad case of man-splaining to me.

[pazzyanne]

41. Exactly!

As a never married 77 year old woman, I have lived a very full life and done a lot of community work and volunteered with youth groups, church groups, and a variety of state committee assignments in the area of environmental education. I have a total of 16 nieces and nephews that I have close relationships with. I have 3 special nieces who are involved in my advanced care plan who are amazing. They contact me on a regular basis just to "check in". I worked until I was 72 and do admit that I went through adjustment issues when I no longer was working. However, I would not trade my life with anyone I know. I would have made a horrible wife and mother. I am much better at being an aunt/ great aunt.

[Baclava]

43. I just picked a number, lol. I knew the backlash would be coming, this guy is targeting book buyers

He's targeting a growing niche audience, he's counting on them to gobble them up, buying what he's selling

He's stated he's never read a fiction novel in his life, how full can his life be? lol

[whathehell]

46. Lol..So you "knew the backlash would be coming"?

Who are you targeting?

[Baclava]

48. Don't hate me because I'm beautiful

[whathehell]

53. You're adorable..

Beautiful?..Not likely

[Baclava]

87. I AM! and Malaise loves me too. I think DU should have a dating forum, I could totally mod there

[Squinch]

70. Or... he is looking at correct data.

[Squinch]

69. Also as a man, he is presented with data showing that women

who don't marry and have kids are the happiest, and he immediately proceeds to re-arrange it in his mind to make it more palatable to his world view.

[Boomerproud]

57. Thank you from a 64 yr old single woman.

I never got that job at an investment firm paying 6 figures or traveled the world either. Doing menial labor after 33 years working at a bank. Old job in Mumbai now. People lining up to hire me don't ya know.

[Squinch]

67. Yeah, no. But I can see why this data is disturbing to some.

[obamanut2012]

92. +1

[obamanut2012]

91. wtaf

[niyad]

112. There is a difference between being alone, and being lonely.

[chowder66]

118. "They". I didn't have a desire to marry or have kids and I'm happy alone or in the company of others

I care about. Money doesn't come into my concept of happiness because I don't have much and I've seen it turn people into awful humans.

[treestar]

139. All alone

Not true. Your family still loves you. They don’t coldly desert you. Nieces and nephews love you. An aunt or uncle without children has time for you. You can be there for them. They treasure you accordingly. This assertion never has made sense. Your friends are there. They need you. They are glad you have time for them. It’s ridiculous to assert we are all alone.

[samnsara]

6. i believe this 100%!

[KitSileya]

8. THis is the function of emotional labor

With the necessary caveat that seems to be obligatory these days as privileged groups cannot accept being talked about as groups without taking it personally whether it applies to them or not, NOT ALL MEN....etc.


Emotional labor, such as making decisions of what to eat, keeping track of doctor's appointments and family members' birthdays, deciding what needs to be done at home and when and so on is a huge burden, and while men are increasing their share of household chores, they're not increasing their share of the emotional labor to any significant degree. Women get the backlash when it isn't done - their in-laws get angry at them when their husbands don't buy Christmas presents for their nieces and nephews, for example. When a house is dirty, it's the women who are judged, and while men do see dirt and clutter, the moment there's a woman in the picture, too many of them abdicate the responibility of deciding to do something about it. They'll do the chores, but women have to "nag" or remind their husbands it needs to be done. It makes too many women miserable. Too many women have one more child than they have given birth to/adopted themselves.

Many women get an added burden from being married, while men get less of a burden from being married the way things are set up in our cultures today. No surprise then that more and more women decide not to get married, like in Japan, where gender inequality at home is even more marked than in most other developed countries.

[CousinIT]

11. +1 n/t

[KitSileya]

20. Yeah, no points for guess my marital status

I am child-free and single, and don't miss having a partner. Honestly, too often it's more work than it's worth. Seeing my mom and my sister with partners who didn't do their share of the emotional labor, I was too wary of ending up in a relationship where I had to nag to get things done at home. Now I joke that my mom as managed to find the only guy who doesn't need to be nagged into doing the dishes and there are none left for me (my stepdad is a fantastic man, and seeing things that need to be done and doing them on his own initiative is just one of the reasons.)

At work too, I see the trend. When teamwork is needed, it's very seldomly any of the men who find times for meetings and send out the invitations. They have no problems leading, but when the parties involved are equal, many of them don't find it necessary to co-operate and work on team cohesiveness.

[whathehell]

24. Who is proclaiming the unmarried and childless as "privileged"?

I know of no one who likes or 'accepts' being talked about as a group -- It's called being stereotyped - do you?

[KitSileya]

94. I was clearly talking about men being the privileged group,

hence the "not all men" at the end of my disclaimer.

[whathehell]

117. Sorry for the.misumderstanding. n/t

[McKim]

63. You Got that One Right!

You got that one right!!!!! For women I say” It’s the R Word...Responsibility!!!!! The emotional burden is huge. Having an anticipatory set on many levels from dental health to clothing needs to gifts, holidays, what to eat....and the list is endless. The old adage is true: “A Woman’s work is never done!” And remember that old song”. Married girl, married girl, rocks the cradle and cries!”.
By the way I am very happily married for 44 years, but the emotional burden factor is very real for most all married women.

[obamanut2012]

93. +1

[Squinch]

96. To put that shorter, I love men, but they are a total pain in the ass to live with.

I tried a number of times, but they always fall into the role of privileged child who needs to have things done for them.

[KitSileya]

104. Yes. It is very clear that our cultures raise boys to expect women to do the emotional labor

They emulate their fathers in that. Keeping track of what needs to be done when is a huge responsibility - it's why managers get the big bucks, so to speak, but the moment it happens at home, it's worth nothing. And research shows that men do see the clutter and dust and so on - they deal with it ok when they are forced to love on their own. However, the moment they move in with a woman, many start going blind.

[Squinch]

105. Exactly. And after a while of subtly demanding this, a certain amount of respect

gets eroded away. Like there is this undercurrent of, "This is the person who does my laundry. That is her job."

And there is ALWAYS resentment on the women's parts. It is a common joke in conversations among women, but though it is often presented with humor, there is definitely always resentment. Rightfully so.

No thank you.

[betsuni]

123. It's funny how Japanese women just quietly stopped getting married and having children

and by the time the old men who run the country noticed, the birth rate was really low. Why, they wondered? What a surprise that women no longer wanted to do nothing with their lives except housework and child rearing, no identity besides wife/mother, a husband with very long working hours who can't help you, insufficient child care facilities, and then be responsible for taking care of your husband's elderly parents who are going to live forever, practically. Shocker.

[hughee99]

9. Does this equate to "happier"?

“You take less risks, you earn more money at work and you live a little longer“

It sounds like he’s equating happiness and stability.

[JenniferJuniper]

15. Some might argue they are closely linked

Most unstable people I know aren't very happy.

[hughee99]

17. That's probably true, but if one thinks back to some of their happiest moments

It wasn’t on their morning commute to their 9-5 job. Most of the single men I know up to about mid-50’s seem happier than the single women of that same age. After about 60, that happiness seems to shift toward the women. That’s my experience anyway.

[Squinch]

165. And yet here is data that shows your observations are wrong.

[FakeNoose]

19. I see it differently

I'm a 69-year old woman, and I've seen both sides, in and out of marriage.

I think men have an evolving definition of happiness and as they get older, it's more like "I'm happy because I have peace of mind." In a happy or at least stable marriage, a man will receive reinforcement from himself and from his spouse. Old married men tend to forget or dismiss the mistakes they made in their younger years. "Things are better now so I'm happy about how it turned out."

For women as they get older, it's more like "I need to be reminded that I made the right decision." Married women don't always get the reinforcement in their later years, like most men get. Single women who are older have learned how to reinforce themselves, but married women look to their husbands and don't always get it.

[Squinch]

75. Or maybe child free single older women are just happier than you!

[hughee99]

136. The single women I know between 40 and 60 certainly don't seem so.

I’m married and in that age range.

[Squinch]

159. Yet here is data that shows that, on the whole, they are.

People are having a really hard time with this fact!

[hughee99]

173. What data? This story didn't have any data, the guardian story

It linked to didn’t have any data. The study they mention is just a mass of statistics that don’t seem to have any measures of “happiness” at all.

Yes, some people even have a hard time telling fact from opinion.

[leftyladyfrommo]

28. I live alone. No kids.

I'm really pretty happy. Marriage and kids are too confining for me.

I have seen some really good marriages and some really bad ones.

A lot of my friends have told me they wish they hadn't had kids. Some people's kids are really nice but I have seen a lot that were nothing but heartache, too.

I haven't ever had much money and live pretty simply and I like it that way. Money and stuff just complicate everything.

I am Buddhist and that lifestyle is simpler.


You have to do what works for you.

[GoCubsGo]

35. Same here.

Except for the Buddhist part.

[zentrum]

34. My experience is that women

.....who have never married, don't understand the real difficulties of marriage and project fantasies of "happiness and perfection" onto their married friends, whom they see primarily in social settings.

Not saying this is universal--would like to to see more studies.

[leftyladyfrommo]

50. I think people often glamorize having children, too. nt

[CousinIT]

129. I greatly believe that too.

I've had parents (of both sexes) tell me so! They love their kids. But --- if they'd known the reality, would have chosen differently, they tell me.

[Squinch]

81. Lol. Did you notice that this was data about the fact that they are happier

than everyone else? Or did you want to list more ways they are delusional and envious of married people?

[meadowlander]

149. Women who have never married still grow up in a family.

They have functioning brains which are able to observe and draw conclusions about the relative happiness of their siblings, friends and extended family's marriages.

On the basis of my parent's and my brother's relationships I would never project a fantasy of happiness and perfection on to anyone's marriage.

[betsuni]

167. Yes!

Most people grow up in a family. Everyone was a child. Everyone was a student. Ridiculous to think anyone who hasn't been married or had a child or been a teacher doesn't know anything about this, is the same as being shoved into an airplane cockpit and told to fly a plane. You remember what you like about your parents, your teachers and figure it out. DUH.

[IronLionZion]

36. Those are my favorite people

[StClone]

45. My mom lived to be 96, ebullient, 13 children

Exception to the study or is happiness such a low bar now that living to one's self is the best existence. My mother out-lived my Dad by 20 years and was the biggest loss of her life.

[Squinch]

82. Yes. Your mother's happiness MUST mean that the definition

of happiness must be all fucked up when data shows that unmarried child free women are happiest.

[ismnotwasm]

54. I dunno

I get the kid thing, but I’m emotionally set up to have a life partner. I’m socially introverted, get close to few people etc..Kids are Now grown And gone, and I NEVER had that “empty nest” shit. I have my hubby and it’s glorious. Challenges in life will hit you no matter what and we have our share. But our marriage is “good”, so there are strong emotional and health benefits to that, even if it’s “you really need to see a doctor for that” or hearing “I love you” every single day of your life.

I suspect it pretty individual

That being said, these stats aren’t surprising

[DFW]

55. That expert never met my daughters

One is married (as of last August) and the other lives with her S.O. and has one kid (almost 2) and one due in 6 weeks.

They are both happy as clams.

[Jirel]

78. That's a "But not every man..." response.

So what? Yay, your daughters are happy. Two people as an example do not trump averages across a broad population. Hoping it does NOT happen to them, but they could also easily be divorced in a few years, or have kids that go very badly, or have other things change and be unhappy with their choices. I hope they continue being happy, but don’t try to disprove data emerging from many studies that being child free, or child free and single, makes people happier over the course of their lives.

[obamanut2012]

95. And?

So what?

[Squinch]

116. His daughters are happy. And they're married. So it CAN'T be true that

unmarried, child-free women are happier on the whole than everyone else.

Get it? The logic is flawless!

[highplainsdem]

61. Never married, turned down several proposals, and thus avoided the divorces more than

half my relatives went through. Seeing bad marriages up close can make you wary of marriage, and there haven't been a lot of good marriages in my family.

I do sometimes regret not having kids, when I look at my relatives who do have happy families, and I've been told by some of my younger relatives that I'd've been a great mother (I can be a very doting aunt). OTOH, I have relatives with kids who have been extreme stresses (as in needing therapy to cope) or disappointments for them.

[Collimator]

62. Data on the contrasted life spans

of married men vs single men and married women vs single women have been available for a long time.

The general consensus has been that marriage does confer certain health benefits on men while leveling extra stressors on women.

Measuring the concept of "happiness" has always been problematic. No outsider can really grasp what goes on in another marriage or household, to say nothing about knowing another person's heart.

I do agree that having children is no guarantee of not ending up essentially alone during the latter years of one's life. At the risk of being cynical, money and an ethical lawyer are the probably the best predictors of being treated well during those vulnerable years.

That being said, we do need each other, in varying degrees and in different ways. And both "emotional labor" and unpaid domestic labor keep the world going in ways that politicians and business leaders and economists can never properly measure.

[ancianita]

64. I've come across studies like this in some happiness quotient and longevity articles.

My relatively young, single friends tend to agree, but also say that single life is a two-edged sword.

One in her mid-forties post stuff like this.

[liberalmuse]

65. I know a lot of married women. Most are absolutely miserable.

They do just about everything in the household with little to no help, including raising the kids, cooking meals, shopping, ensuring the kids get to their school and other activities, planning for holidays, overseeing the household finances all while working full time. Their husbands come home from work and believe they've earned the right to chill in front of the tv or tinker in the garage on hobbies. Most marriages are very rough on women mentally and physically. I've yet to meet a woman who would do it all again if given the change. Most yearn for the single life again.

[Marrah_Goodman]

68. I know plenty of happy, healthy women who have children and happy, healthy ones who don't

I also know women who cannot have children and are very unhappy about it. Women are all different and different things make them happy.

I am 50, divorced long ago, 3 kids, all grown and on their own. Would love to be married again and have someone to grow old with. If my bf ever asks I will very happily say yes.

[Tanuki]

74. I am pretty sure there are happy and unhappy people, as well as those

somewhere on the spectrum in between, in each of the categories (male or female, married or single). I would suspect that the overall difference in happiness within groups is much greater than the difference between groups.

[Squinch]

101. Yes, I can see why some would have a hard time with the notion that child-free, single women

are, on the whole, happier than everyone else.

This thread is hilarious.

[helpisontheway]

77. I can't imagine my life without my husband and sons..nt

[keithbvadu2]

80. Articles like this almost always leave out/minimize the factor of companionship.

Articles like this almost always leave out/minimize the factor of companionship.

[obamanut2012]

98. Companionship doesn't equate to spouse/romantic partner/etc.

Some of these replies in this thread made me look to make sure it's 2020 and not 1958.

[Squinch]

100. This thread is hilarious!!! The knee-jerk need (I am guessing entirely by men) to

discount the notion that child-free single women are happier than they are, or than their wives are, is a scream!!!

They just CANNOT believe that they do not leave sunshine and roses wherever they go!

[Squinch]

99. LOL!!!!! Because unmarried child free women cannot POSSIBLY have companions!!!

[keithbvadu2]

110. Good job! You prove my point very well.

Good job! You prove my point very well.

Even though you are correct in your sarcasm, the article does not mention companionship.

[Squinch]

111. Sure I did! You MUST be right about this!

[KitSileya]

103. Which is why nuns live the longest

Best of both worlds - no husband to add to the physical and emotional labor, but companionship when wanted. Of all occupations, being a religious has the highest life expectancy.

[drmeow]

121. this has been known since I

Started grad school, more than 20 years ago. It is not even news that it hasn't changed in that time period because the percentage of housework, childcare, and emotional labor that women do also hasn't changed much since then. The fact that it hasn't changed is depressing.

[Squinch]

122. But look at the resistance from so many in this thread to believing it could possibly be true!

It's amazing!

[drmeow]

124. I have found that scientific literacy

tends to be forgotten when research findings challenge people's self views or self theories. Neither intelligence nor education seem to really protect us from that response and we are all susceptible to it. It requires an conscious willingness to kind of smash our own egos, especially if it is a really core part of our self views.

[whathehell]

156. Why they continue to do it is the mystery..

especially, I'd say, with housework..Women need to take the attitude "If you don't do it (or your share) then it won't get done" and then stick to it. It's what I do, and it works.

[drmeow]

174. that doesn't work

With things like childcare.

[whathehell]

175. ..Which is why I said "especially with housework"

[Demsrule86]

137. I have been happily married for years and have four children. They are great kids. The women I

know who never married or had children regretted it as they grew older. That is my experience.

[obamanut2012]

162. lolololololol

Yeah, no.

[betsuni]

163. ...

[GulfCoast66]

144. As a married man I can believe this with no problems.

My wife and I are childless due to nature, not our desires. But that’s been 20 years ago and it never really bothered us too bad.

My wife is pushing 60. Looks and acts like she is 40. She chalks it up mainly to genetics but never fails to mentions that kids just age women. We are active and share the same outdoor hobbies, gardening and fishing. She doesn’t care to hunt with me and that is fine.

Here’s the kicker. When I met her she had no desire to get married. Ever. But after 5 years of dating she changed her mind because she met a man who did not expect her to take care of him and do all the chores. Wanted no part of being a mother to a husband. And with me she is not. I do all the cooking, mopping and, well, you get the idea. There is no women’s work in our house.

I can safely say had she not met a man who would pull his share of the weight she would have never married.

And have no doubt that if I stopped, it would be the door for me! She’s a strong, beautiful woman.

33 years and going strong.

[obamanut2012]

168. What a lovely post

Sincerely.

[uponit7771]

146. Hmmm, doesn't sound like those women married adults

[obamanut2012]

169. Except they did

Saying this just excuses bad behavior by men who treat their spouses like maids and mistresses.

[roamer65]

148. No one is going to be happy 20 years from now.

The climate crisis will ensure it.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

170. I'm much happier having my husband and sons around. They are my only company in this quarantine.

I would be miserable without them. My husband and I are a good team. We keep each other happy and healthy. It matters who you are married to and if they are right for you. Kids can be challenging at younger ages, but it gets better as they get older. My kids are 10 and 17 now. Pretty good ages. Overall, I would not choose to be single and childless. I like having a family.