The military cadets who are being forced to risk their lives for a reality show.

[shockey80]

I am a veteran, I have earned the right to say this. Those military cadets need to remember they are going to be leaders of men. If they risk their lives so Trump can put on a reality show, I would never want to serve under them. They could never earn my respect.

When I was in the service I got busted for refusing a direct order from a 2nd lieutenant who did not know his ass from his elbow. Not only was the order stupid, The order had nothing to do with the military. I knew I was going to get busted and I did not give a shit because I knew I was right. I remember telling my superiors that they could send me to the stockade if they wanted too., I would be happy to go.

These cadets are being given an incompetent, dangerous order. Putting on a realty TV show has nothing to do with the military. All 1,000 cadets should refuse to be part of something that is completely insane. What are they going to do, court martial all of them?

These cadets could send a big message to our country by doing what is right.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. As West Point cadets are they under military orders, or

are they more like college students whose parents can say, Oh hell, you're not going to that shit show; you're staying home! I wouldn't let my kid go to that if I could prevent it.

[efhmc]

3. Aren't they commisioned officers at this point?

If so, couldn't that mess up their careers just as they are getting started?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. I don't know; I have no idea how that whole thing works.

All I know is that it's beyond ridiculous to ask them to return (and to make matters worse they also have to be quarantined alone in their dorms for 14 days) for nothing more than to feed Trump's ego. I hope the Academy can come up with a way to prevent it.

[shockey80]

8. So fucking what. Couldn't dying from the virus fuck up their career?

[LiberalLoner]

19. Yes they are. And you are 100% correct.

[SeattleVet]

26. They usually receive their commissions at the graduation.

Until then they are still members the Army, and rank in a weird sort of limbo-space between officer and enlisted. AR 600-20, Army Command Policy, makes it pretty clear that West Point cadets outrank Army NCOs. This regulation shows that cadets rank after commissioned and warrant officers, but above NCOs.

https://cascom.army.mil/s_staff/EO/AR_600-20.pdf

2–10. Emergency command
The senior officer, WO, cadet, NCO, or junior enlisted Soldier among troops at the scene of an emergency will assume temporary command and control of the Soldiers present.

So, technically, if every officer in a command structure was not able to perform their duties, a cadet would be in command of the highest enlisted NCO.

[sarge43]

27. Yes they are.

They're commissioned upon graduation. Further, completing the academy commits to six years of service. If they don't, for reasons of their own choosing, such as disobeying an order, they have to pay back Uncle for that four years of free college.

It's called dismissal for cause. Equivalent to an other than honorable discharge for enlisted. Doesn't put any gold stars on your resume.

It's certainly a stupid order. It'll be tougher to argue it's an illegal one.

[Ex Lurker]

6. Up to sophomore year they can leave without penalty

After that they're under military obligation.

[slumcamper]

24. Right, We'll see how close we are to a fascist dictatorship.

Do they march lockstep to the whims of a draft-dodging pussy grabber? Or do they assert an independence of mind and embrace a higher principle?

Any bets?

[hlthe2b]

2. I am furious about this. The cadets have no choice, but Congress DOES.

[shockey80]

4. I keep on hearing this by Americans and it's driving me crazy.

We have no choice, they have no choice, We can't do that, they can't do that. It's not legal. It's against the rules. What ever that is, it's not American. We have a choice.

[hlthe2b]

7. STOP IT. They are military cadets. It isn't like some college student making a political stance

MILITARY. They are not free to come and go any more than the leadership at West Point can refuse the President.

QUITE DAMNED DIFFERENT AND YOU KNOW IT. Your comment is indefensible.

[shockey80]

11. BULLSHIT. I did it. I refused a direct order.

It's simple, all you do is say no. I did it alone, I am talking about all 1,000 cadets saying no together. It's about honor, integrity, respect.

[hlthe2b]

13. You got damned lucky. And no, that is not the rule nor will it be considered "honorable"...

It is easy for you to say that they should give up their entire future by refusing what they have been ORDERED to do. It is not going to be YOU who face the consequences.

Perhaps for once you might go after the real problem and not the victimized cadets.

[shockey80]

17. No, I did not get lucky.

I received a field grade Article 15. They took my rank, my money, 30 days restricted to the barracks and 30 days extra duty. I was never in my life more proud of myself. I walked around with my chin held high. My fellow soldiers respected me for what I did. Some of them called my the craziest son of a bitch they ever met. Lol!

I finished out my tour and left the military.

[msongs]

31. good for you. as we learned at nuremburg, following orders is no defense nt

[yellowwoodII]

9. Will they get close to the President?

Maybe they could all cough on him.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. They will be quarantined for two weeks before the presidential campaign photo op. . . . nt

[Fiendish Thingy]

23. The graduation isn't until June 13, so cadets would need to begin quarantine by late May

A month from now. As infections climb along with the death rate, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a change of plans, then again, I’ve learned to expect the unexpected, and Trump could double down and insist as part of his “Open Up America” scheme.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. The smart ones will discover they have symptoms and thus will be unable to travel. . . . nt

[hlthe2b]

14. ++++

[Wellstone ruled]

15. Do not the Cadets

move on to their Assigned Duty Station and Advanced Training on completion of their class schedule? Assuming these folks are scattered around the Glob.

[sarge43]

30. Most of them are, if not already, headed for advanced training in their MOS.

They're all over the country. This retired Personnel tech questions: Will they get TDY (temporary duty orders) orders and will they be travel paid for haul ass back to the Point to stand around for hours. Then, sit, hopefully six feet apart, while Moron runs his mouth for an hour.

It's their first cluster coitus; there will be more.

[Wellstone ruled]

34. One thing that will happen is,

lot's of early outs. Do my min and I am out of here,do not need this crap.

[sarge43]

36. As said up thread, academy grads commit to six years of service.

Yeah, they can bail before the time runs out, but the consequences can be, how you say, irksome.

[Wellstone ruled]

37. Yes iksome.

Yes that six year hitch takes commitment.

[obamanut2012]

16. My tax money pays for that, so I also have the right to say it

We all do.

This is disgusting theatre.

[ScratchCat]

18. Congress needs to step up now

I am pretty sure most GOP Senators find this to be a horrible idea and are against any such thing. Congress needs to pass a resolution "condemning" this ridiculous show he is trying to put on. Further, it probably wouldn't take a decent attorney 15 minutes to get an injunction against any "order" that cadets return for this.

[shockey80]

20. Everyone knows the cadets are being used so Trump can put on a show.

It is gut wrenching disgusting.

[sarge43]

33. Also, Moron's nose is out of joint, because Pants got to run his mouth at the AF academy.

Snowflake see, snowflake do.

[demigoddess]

21. I agree, and I am an old army brat. They should refuse to harm the public.

that is what they would be doing. And military officers are not supposed to be political.

[shockey80]

22. Thank you.

[NotHardly]

25. Those military cadets need to remember they are going to be leaders of men and women

remember, women too bubba.

[Paladin]

28. trump never misses a chance to shit on the military. (nt)

[rocktivity]

29. The Sergeant said, "Sir, with all this equipment, no man will be able to swim."

"Sergeant, don't be a Nervous Nellie,"
The Captain said to him.
"All we need is a little determination;
Men, follow me, I'll lead on."
We were neck deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool said to push on.

All at once, the moon clouded over,
We heard a gurgling cry.
A few seconds later, the captain's helmet
Was all that floated by.
The Sergeant said, "Turn around men!
I'm in charge from now on."
And we just made it out of the Big Muddy
With the captain dead and gone.


rocktivity

[tiptonic]

32. Lawful order

We took a oath to obey 'lawful orders'. Not insanity, like this.

[sarge43]

35. How is this "illegal"?

Are they being ordered to violate any laws, civil or martial?

The CinC wants to yap at you. Yes, it'll be a shit show. Suit up.