General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRalph Nader starting up with his "both parties are the same" B.S. again
http://politico.com/story.cfm?id=81166&cat=topnewsRalph, please STFU and quit trying to help the GOP.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
wryter2000
(47,940 posts)The difference now is he's made himself irrelevant.
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)scored something like 500,000 votes nationally.
I think the American Socialist party got more than that...
So much for Ralphie's "punishment of the democrats" plan...
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)
sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)why is nobody paying attention to meeeeeee!
I'm so tired of this egomaniac.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)Just go crawl back under your repuke-funded rock. God, I hate that asshole.
cali
(114,904 posts)Ralph Nader ripped the Democratic and Republican national conventions on Wednesday for their “corrosive impacts” on democracy, calling them events “of political pomposity and braggadocio.”
“The Republican and Democratic Conventions are mercifully over but their corrosive impacts on our democracy persist,” began a blog post by the former presidential candidate and political activist.
Citing the conventions’ cost to taxpayers, the two-time Green Party nominee lamented how the “two party duopoly obviously controls the honey pot in Congress,” adding that “the party’s convention committees are private corporations that should pay for their own big political party and their many smaller social parties with plentiful food and drink.”
What’s more, “Both functions are now decided beforehand, setting the stage for a choreographed theatrical event of political pomposity and braggadocio.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81166.html#ixzz26NXmlYRW
sorry, on this he's right.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)“The Democratic Convention evokes pity,” Nader wrote. “They too had similar scripts at the podium — narrate your humble, hardworking family lines, talk incessantly about jobs so you won’t have to talk about wages.”
Fuck off Nader!
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)I never heard anyone say it or saw anyone write it before today and now I've seen and heard it twice. Earlier on NPR the former Dem mayor of Salt Lake City and now Justice Party candidate for president was whining about "the duopoly".
Not that I wouldn't whine too if I were in a 3rd (or 4th or 17th) party but I'm not so it's whining to me.
Seems a little too coincidental to me.
NoPasaran
(17,317 posts)From, of course, the golden tongue of Mr. Nader.
tama
(9,137 posts)Republicans had one fresh unscripted event (which angered the party politruks): Clint Eastwood. Democrats none as it remained totally scripted.
Personally, don't know. Should union bashing count as fresh, though totally scripted, event in Democratic Convention?
I honestly don't know if it's worth the effort to try to reason with tribal haters of DU. But I see you trying and thank you for that.
"Republicans had one fresh unscripted event (which angered the party politruks): Clint Eastwood. Democrats none as it remained totally scripted. "
...according to Nader, the chair won and Clinton's speech invoked "pity"!
Nader is a fool!
You quoted the part also I referred to and know what he said and didn't say. I understand you are now blinded by hatred and cannot discuss rationally. But do you have a choice, do you claim you have ability to consciously let go of anger and approach the matter rationally?
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Ralph is evil incarnate. He's a GOP plant (unless you're a republican, in which case he is a Democratic agent provocateur). He's working for Soros, or Koch, or Rove.
As Al Gore, ironically showed, inconvenient truths do not sit well with the True Believers.
cali
(114,904 posts)I don't particularly care for Nader, but I'll be damned if I don't speak up when people put words into the mouths of others.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)The OP isn't accurate in the least, and like many of those carrying a grudge, can't seem to pass up an opportunity to take a cheap shot.
Kind of sad, really.
I also agree that Nader is spot on with his comments this time.
Jakes Progress
(11,213 posts)It's not always appreciated around here, but it is welcome.
cali
(114,904 posts)
patrice
(47,992 posts)
Scout
(8,625 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)This week? And not be considered crazy? Geesh. He's losing whatever cred he had fast.
Panasonic
(2,921 posts)and should not be sourced.
I've been saying that for years.
Nader is irrelevant, because he is not running.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)after you, asshat. 
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)But folks like Rocky Anderson & Jill Stein, who are only mildly more relevant than Ralph, are making the same argument It's a bullshit argument, and I'm delighted that none of these assclowns will be allowed on the debate stage. 
though not denying there are some, even meaningful differences between the two parties, taking a birds eye view on this whole mess we are in, I sadly must say that I can think that tribal haters of party loyalists who put party before country, humanity and people are more irrelevant in their fantasy that their power game fantasies matter, except as obstacles towards achieving the vital changes we need and must face.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)interest has seen a steady decline since Ross Perot mounted his campaign in '92. That's because reasonable people on both sides know that they're a distraction. That talk a lot of shit, and they want to control the WH, but WTF is gonna work with them in Congress? They're held in contempt by both sides. 
tama
(9,137 posts)don't give a shit about any party crapola. You don't need to be a rocket scientist just to take a look and realize that all party politics are offering just more of the same shit and then worse. People who are not hypnotized by partisan competition and see and live life outside that game see it as petty power games of school yard bullies and sociopathic greed.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)
tama
(9,137 posts)then they laugh at you - check
then they fight you - Occupy Mick Check
then...
...how about giving democracy a chance, instead of corrupt and destructive power games of kleptocratic oligarchies that you confuse with "body political"?
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)In the end, for there to be any sort of viable third party, they need to attract voters to their cause.
Not by denigrating other political parties, but by getting their own message out in front of the electorate.
They are terrible at doing the hard stuff, the leg work, the organizing for their cause.
You use Occupy as an example.
So do I.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)It is only the Corporate $$ that keeps the system rigged how it is currently.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)There will always be an excuse.
Even if public funding was the reality, they would lose, they still have no ground game, they still won't do the grunt work.
They want it magically handed to them.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.
Are you that naive? They have been crushing true independents and populist movements for longer than any of us have been alive.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)1. Unionism flourished after the initial "Red Scare" because employers saw the alternative as catastrophic.
2. If you think that Martin getting murdered stopped the march towards civil rights in this nation, you would be wrong.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)1. Unionism flourished after the initial "Red Scare" because employers saw the alternative as catastrophic.
Union-busting "right to work" Laws have done their damage. Corporate $$ behind those laws = Fascism
2. I was not implying that it stops the March towards civil rights, I was showing that Fascists/Racists/Neo-cons will and have killed people working towards equality and liberty for the non-privileged class (non-white, non-rich, non-politically-connected classes)
You have a "blame the repressed for their state" similar to Repukes blaming the impoverished for their state.
edit - add: Blaming the woman for being raped..
tama
(9,137 posts)I live in country with multiparty system, and the end result is not that different from yours. Constant drift to the right of all parties and the party political system as whole. The problem is the inherently corrupt and corruptive nature of the representative system, the problem is systemic.
Politics is not limited to party politics. Grass root movements, unions etc. not affiliated with any political party are full of of good organizers doing the hard stuff, the leg work, talking the talk and walking the walk. Without trying to sway any voters in any way. Occupy is just one example.
I feel that the participation in and experience of authentic democracy in citizens assemblies is much more important than the ritual of voting once in four years. Especially if we want to solve our common problems in peaceful and democratic way, respectful of all members of our communities.
Iceland had a revolution by grass roots social movement and new crowd sourced constitution. They kicked out the old guard as whole but didn't abandon representative system as whole - but they amended the system lot towards participatory democracy. The part of the social movement that decided to take part in the partisan game took careful steps not to get corrupted by the representative system, e.g. promising to disband the party after certain amount of time or if all the goals have been achieved before that. To keep political party just a tool of people, not corrupt power hungry entity over people.
We can and do learn, we are NOT doomed to keep on repeating mistakes and tactics that lead to nothing but more misery, we are not doomed into banging our heads into wall for eternity and complaining our defeat.
This for me is the real message of hope. If people of Iceland can do it, so can we. We have hope.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)It just ended, but I'm sure you can find the interview on the NPR website. Very enlightening, and piercingly accurate. USELESS!!!!! 
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)They laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
- Carl Sagan
Sid
tama
(9,137 posts)Getting angry and hateful, not so healthy.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)
eridani
(51,907 posts)I don't think that that's as wonderful as you apparently do.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)the process. Let the grownups handle this.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Or is each and every word that issues from his lips "wrong by definition" because he's Ralph Nader?
Arkana
(24,347 posts)As evidence, I provide the events of the last four years.
You tell me if both parties are the same. Go ahead. I fucking DARE you.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)If you even read the article. What part of what he actually said is wrong?
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)tama
(9,137 posts)and hate speech is not supposed to be any more rational than sectarian violence. There is common base behind what we see in this thread and events in Libya and elsewhere and the reactions they cause on DU. Blindness of emotional attachment to symbols of power and irrational anger looking for targets to blame.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)The differences are superficial.
I like Obama, and find Romney disgusting, but their policies go in the same direction.
Obama talks about clean coal, and destroys the education system. He pretends the economy can grow infinitely. These ideas are not sustainable.
It's possible though, that Obama will get smarter after the election. It's a long shot.
--imm
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)this is the truth that is destroying our country.
winstars
(4,279 posts)
Canuckistanian
(42,290 posts)
ailsagirl
(24,287 posts)and that both sides are "bad"
"sigh"
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)I side with the (D) party because there is no one who represents my views in this fascist/oligarchical society that we currently have in the USA.
I would go Socialist or Green party or Labor party or other, if the Duopoly is able to be torn down. I believe that is certainly more likely under Democratic leadership than Republican. It will still be a challenge under Dems.
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Why yes, yes it does.
Fuck Ralph Nader.
Sid
riverbendviewgal
(4,396 posts)76 years too old
longship
(40,416 posts)No rec for this thread. Sorry! Hope you understand.
we can do it
(13,024 posts)byeya
(2,842 posts)untrack the corporate takeover of the country.
Gore won in Florida yet was not man enough to fight for his victory.
Today, he's mostly correct.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)About the only other option left was armed revolution. And I wouldn't find that option very "manly".
Cha
(319,079 posts)
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Has to be said.
Hubert Flottz
(37,726 posts)He enabled Bush and Cheney to terrorize America for 8 years.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)not counted until after the bloodless coup was a fait accompli.
The real questions that must be answered forthrightly are as follows:
1) Why did Gore concede?
and
2) Should Gore have conceded or should he instead have provoked a constitutional crisis? 1,000,000+ dead and wounded Iraqis would really like to hear the answer.
tama
(9,137 posts)than to grow a back-bone.
Hubert Flottz
(37,726 posts)But I think Ralph siphoned off just enough votes, to help BushCo seal the steal. Of Course the Supreme court made a difference too as did Joe Lieberman, advice that Al should give up. What got me about Al was his deciding not to run again in 2004. I think Al could have beaten W bigger in 2004.(except for maybe Ohio.)
NNN0LHI
(67,190 posts)Hubert Flottz
(37,726 posts)
MariaM83
(233 posts)
Care Acutely
(1,370 posts)Pathetic doesn't begin to cover what you've become, Ralph.
flamingdem
(40,891 posts)retire!
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Fuck you, Ralph.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Jakes Progress
(11,213 posts)we are chasing the hair-brained, spastic idiots of the ever more crazy former republican party by mimicking their thoughtless hate patterns. Thought and honesty are not considered virtues.
When you finally get to the right link to the Politic story, ralph (never one of my favorite people) never says what you indicate.
You could argue that he was wrong about the Democratic party, that it is a paragon of virtue and always acts for the good of the people, that it does not pander after corporate money. That would be arguing with what he said. In this article - the one you cite - he never says both parties are the same. Not even in subtext. You could read the article to say that he thinks both parties are bad, but not that they are the same.
Thoughtful discussion would be preferable to knee-jerk attacks based on memes and names.
I'll start. Both parties are corporate whores. One is much worse and will ruin the nation. The other is the one I work for and support. Both parties help corporations more than people. One is blatant and nasty. The other is the one I have been a part of for forty years.
Oh. And ralph nader is a pain. But he has a right to speak without your permission. (Logic check: You claim he says both parties are the same and that that helps the gop. If he says they are the same why doesn't it help Dems just as much?)
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)What a turd. What a phony.
Indpndnt
(2,391 posts)He hasn't been relevant in years.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)
DLnyc
(2,479 posts)that you are unable to differentiate between the 8 years of FUCKING DISASTER that you gave us by getting George the Moron close enough to steal the election and the 4 years of FAIRLY GOOD RECOVERY that we managed after you kindly kept your MOUTH SHUT while the rest of us WORKED OUR ASSES OFF to get Obama elected.
I think it would be even more helpful if you would kindly KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT for a couple of months now so that we can avoid Mitt the Psycho getting close enough to steal this election.
Then, once we have managed to make clear that the American people in general prefer a reasonable moderate to a FUCKING PSYCHO ROBBER BARON and we are continuing to live in a moderately liberal society, maybe you can try to do something USEFUL to move the world toward your imagined utopia instead of just SHOOTING YOUR MOUTH OFF at the worst possible times.
Thanks a bunch, Ralph.
David Zephyr
(22,785 posts)Nader. No credibility anymore. Zip.
mfcorey1
(11,134 posts)washed up posterior. His purpose has always been to create confusion. He and Sarah need to have a discreet affair that would keep them busy until after November 6.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Both parties have cheerfully supported the post-WW II imperial military empire. However, given that there are so many people's livelihoods involved, there is no way anyone could even be in the position of being able to seriously run for president at all without agreeing to continue it. Changing that is going to have to be bottom up, not top down.
However, there is one FUCK of a difference on domestic issues. Social Security? Medicare? Unemployment insurance? Environmental regulation? No contest, even though all too many Dems are unacceptably wussy in the defense of their major accomplishments. And even that is different from favoring their outright destruction, as Repubs do.
Edited to add--if we are stuck with being an imperial power for the time being, better someone cool and rational in charge instead of a blithering, blustering posturer.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)shaken hands with him, acknowledged their differences of opinion, congratulated him on his campaign, and urged his supporters to vote for Gore in order to keep Bush out of office. No Bush victory; no Iraq war; no Guantanamo; quite possibly, no 9/11.
Had he done that, I would have had some real respect for the guy.