This message was self-deleted by its author

[scarletwoman]

This message was self-deleted by its author (scarletwoman) on Fri May 1, 2020, 03:23 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[larwdem]

1. wow

yes sue her. He is being swift boated

[scarletwoman]

2. Yes, he is being swiftboated.

We saw what happened to John Kerry when the Dems just assumed it would go away, because it was so patently false.

We need a much better strategy this time.

[Freethinker65]

3. Biden should stick to policy issues and ignore it

Pull a reverse KellyAnne Conway and say nothing inappropriate happened and that the accusation is meant as a distraction against important topics people care about like handling the current pandemic, the US economy, rebuilding trust with our allies, providing healthcare and education...

[scarletwoman]

4. I am quite sure that ignoring it is the WRONG thing to do.

Biden needs to show that he knows the charges are false and that he will fight to prove it.

[BComplex]

13. Totally agree. Biden needs to fight this head on, and needs to expose the information

on the link you provided to the general public.

Our world cannot afford to allow the russians to start this crap this way in our election.

[scarletwoman]

16. Thank you. We can't let this ratfucking stand. (nt)

[crickets]

5. This. Biden has already addressed her accusations publicly. He need do no more.

Getting down in the mud with Tara Reade will play right into the hands of the agitators backing her. It's what they want, so they can turn this into a 24/7 circus from now til November. It'll be buttery males all over again.

NO.

[scarletwoman]

9. Biden doesn't have to get down in the mud, that's for his lawyers to do. (nt)

[crickets]

21. I respect you and your opinions. I read many of yours post and enjoy them,

and appreciate being informed by them and sharing a similar outlook on what is going on around us politically. On this particular issue, I have to vehemently disagree. The more anyone pays any attention to this, the more it grows louder in the news cycle, the more likely it becomes an empty spectacle just like the ones Hillary faced, just like the ones that made that tiny difference that allowed Russia to throw the election.

The accusations were baseless, but it didn't matter. None of her clear, justified defenses mattered. It was all about noise and spectacle that allowed the smears to go on and on.

Joe Biden doesn't need to go to court to clear his name. His word is enough.

When Democrats insist on agitating this issue even after Joe has moved on, we are doing the opposition's work for them.

[scarletwoman]

35. Thank you for your kind words, and I'm fine with being wrong about this.

It's just that I see this is NOT dying down, it's building up - the media is smelling blood, and they can't resist.

It won't matter that Joe has moved on - if the media doesn't, it will be "but her emails" all over again.

[Drunken Irishman]

7. Biden has largely ignored it and it's only gotten worse...

I have followed these accusations from the first day they hit twitter.

A month ago, no one was touching this story. It was something just kind of smoldering online and that was about it.

But now it's all over the place.

The problem is that Biden doesn't have a lot of things to distract it with.

There are no rallies.

No events.

No meetings.

Because he's holed up in his basement.

This is literally the only news people are getting about Biden right now. It's not a good look. Right or not. He needs to do something.

I've seen this story grow and grow over the course of the month and now it's getting a lot more traction than it was back at the start of April. If he continues to ignore it, it might go away ... or it might just get worse and then it might be too late to address.

[marlakay]

32. It's exactly what John Kerry did ignore it

And thought it would go away, it didn’t and a bunch of people ended up believing a hero wasn’t and it was sickening.

I don’t want to see same happen to Joe. He needs to come on strong or people will think he has something to hide.

[Drunken Irishman]

41. One thing I think helps Biden is people know him.

They didn't really know Kerry in 2004.

They knew him. But they didn't know him.

Biden was VP for eight years in a successful administration.

What killed Kerry in 2004 was that the Swift Boat ads hit RIGHT at the moment Kerry was being defined as a candidate to an American populace who didn't really know much about him.

Two things Bush's campaign did so effectively was:

1) Those ads

2) Defining Kerry as a flip-flopper

He could never shake that perception, no matter how much he tried.

The same thing happened eight years later when Obama was running against Romney. Obama was quick to define him as a flip-flopper elitist who was out of touch on economic issues and the type of CEO who'd fire your dad just for kicks. That image stuck because, despite people knowing Romney, they really didn't know him.

People know Biden. It's going to be a lot harder to get things like this to stick.

I hate to say it but it was the same with Trump. People knew Trump when he ran. That stuff didn't impact their view of him either way.

I suspect it won't for Biden but in a close election, it might and it could hurt, especially if it lingers. So, I agree he needs to get out in front of it but I don't think it'll rise to the level of concern as with what happened to Kerry.

[marlakay]

44. God your right bringing it all back to me

Of course once it gets going we have no idea what ads they will do. I think right now they are hoping against hope the virus situation gets better.

[Drunken Irishman]

47. I agree. They are cooked if this doesn't blow over by fall.

They're risking everything on reopening. And I think it'll blow up in their face.

[marlakay]

57. I think so to just read in China

People still aren’t going out even though open and wearing masks.

[scarletwoman]

42. Thanks - that's the way I feel about it. I don't want to see Biden swiftboated.

Which is why I think it needs to be confronted head-on in some way.

[underpants]

66. I'm not seeing it DI. I've read this whole thread and...

First, I don’t see this anywhere other than Fox News. Granted due to their ratings and the rest of the media’s paranoia of being called liberal Fox can foist this into the discussion. I just don’t see it anywhere else. Not on CNN or Google news or AP or any network. I did happen to flip over to Fox today at 5 and this was the lead story. Panel discussion. Yes this, with everything else going on this was the lead.

This is a change on Fox. The last I saw the standard story was that Joe was in a slobbering veg state. I actually saw Brit Hume saying pretty much that on Tucker’s show. Those are the last two times I’ve watched Fox. As you can imagine they want to change the subject.

As far as treatment:
Cha has posted below that the DC police closed the case. Okay that’s a good legal starting point - for the mass audience, the conspiracy nuts can have at it.
As noted elsewhere here, cite his story.
Do not be dismissive but don’t linger.
Get the 4-5 lines ready, deliver, and move on.
Refuse anything more.

The obvious pivot here is women voters. Trump just wants to whittle away a few. That’s all he can hope for. Joe’s response needs to mention the Women’s March. This simply triggers those women and should initiate a review of the rather massive drubbing the Dems have put on the Repubs across the country since a Trump has been in office. The Women’s March was way more effective and seismic than the press wants to let on about.

[Drunken Irishman]

69. It was on MSNBC tonight.

it's listed on the front page if NPR and Reuters. It's not on the fringes anymore.

[underpants]

73. Ok then I just missed it pop up

Thanks.

[uponit7771]

6. Make a short live statement then don't feed it

[Drunken Irishman]

10. He's already denied it.

I don't know how a live statement would change anything except draw more attention to it without changing anyone's mind.

If they didn't believe his initial statement flatly denying it, they're not going to believe a spoken statement.

So, if we agree he has to at least acknowledge it again, beyond a statement, he's going to have to do more than to deny it. He's going to have to prove her story wrong and unfortunately, I don't know how he does that as it's the perfect example of a 'he said, she said' situation.

[scarletwoman]

12. "He's going to have to prove her story wrong..." That's why I think he needs to take her to court.

If all the evidence is so overwhelming on his side, then this is the way he shows he's confident that her allegations are false.

[Freethinker65]

19. She says she cannot remember where or when it happened

No real details (except that the ones she insists on have changed over time) so no way to disprove it by proving Biden was somewhere else at a certain time or date.

Say it never happened and move on. Don't take the bait.

[scarletwoman]

30. The best defense is a good offense. She has no proof, & there's a lot of evidence to support Biden.

Did you check out the link in my OP?

[Demsrule86]

22. There is no way to prove her story wrong. She is obviously changing it and is unreliable ...she

is not credible but there will never be 'proof'. Biden said it didn't happen and what the folks spreading this like Chris Hayes want is for him to address it...it makes it go on and on...Hayes is a disgruntled Sanders supporters and like others is teaming up with the right to peddle this shit. It needs to be ignored.

[BComplex]

14. Discovery in that lawsuit would be the end of it. The evidence against her claim is

remarkable.

[NanceGreggs]

8. That's the worst idea ...

... I've heard since the one about injecting Lysol.

[scarletwoman]

11. Maybe so. But ignoring it isn't going to work - look what happened to John Kerry. (nt)

[NanceGreggs]

23. Not comparable.

Two different scenarios, two different responses necessary.

This woman is a one-off loon whose story has been completely debunked. A lawsuit would give her credibility through celebrity.

Ignoring her is the best tack.

[crickets]

31. +1

[Freethinker65]

34. +1

[Bucky]

74. It definitely will not just go away

I can already hear Trump doing his nickname shtick: "Hidin' Biden" or some other such idiocy.

This is definitely costing Joe support among young women. I have at least three female friends who are saying they don't want to "choose between two rapists"

[Demsrule86]

24. Thanks Nance...absolutely.

[scarletwoman]

45. Would you agree with post #28 as a better idea? (link below)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13368804

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. Or deny it with his own voice.

[scarletwoman]

18. All that does is turn it into "he said, she said." (nt)

[NanceGreggs]

33. And what do you think ...

... a lawsuit would turn into?

[la-trucker]

17. Extremely bad idea

That opens Biden up for discovery -- which means he has to produce any and all documents asked by the defendant and also subject himself to depositions. His other staff can be deposed too. It will be messy.

[scarletwoman]

20. Well, is he innocent or not?

[crickets]

25. Of course he is.

The point is that the process is long and involved and loud and gives Republicans way too much baseless fodder to play with for months before a crucial election. Why would you want to put him through that? Joe is a big boy. He can handle this how he sees fit. Let him handle it.

Follow his lead and move on.

[la-trucker]

28. Even if one is innocent, one should not subject oneself to discovery

The defendant's attorneys can ask anything and everything and they will go into things like Burisma. It will be a no win situation and will distract from the message.

His best tactic would be to get a few surrogate pitbulls and eviscerate Tara Reade. Perhaps get private investigators to get a hold of her phone bills to show calls to Russia and maybe Cenk Uygur and other Sanders operatives.

Get some people with no connection to the Biden campaign like James Carville to pound this fraud of a woman into public opinion oblivion.

[crickets]

38. James Carville is a savvy guy with clout - that's a good idea. nt

[scarletwoman]

40. Thank you - you make an excellent counter-argument.

"...pound this fraud of a woman into public opinion oblivion.

Exactly! That's what I want to see happen!

[BlueMTexpat]

76. I'm with this tactic! eom

[Demsrule86]

29. Of course he is innocent...that is not the point...your idea is a bad one. We are a few months away

from the general. Biden doesn't need to address this other than to say it never happened.

[HarlanPepper]

50. Absolutely correct

But also the media. Politico had a story today about why some have accused the media of not vetting Reade. Well they have actually. But one of the reasons it has sort of fizzled is that it’s not attached to any kind of legal proceeding. That’s one reason why Hillary’s emails became catnip to the media, because the issue was tied to investigations, congressional hearings etc, which gave the media a constant stream of news pegs this story really doesn’t have. From a journalist's POV it’s hard to tell the same story over and over before it becomes impossible to advance and becomes a dry hole.


So yeah, suing her is a terrible idea.

[demtenjeep]

26. this is all we need to say

He served 8 years under Barack Obama-the first black man ever for president.

He knew he would be scrutinized constantly so he most assuredly vetted Biden with very special care


This "alleged" assault happened in 93 Biden was VP from 08-16

NOTHING came out until last year??/



she can go jump off a bridge. This is plain lying and story telling
28


15

[democrattotheend]

70. It would help if some of Obama's people like Axelrod would step up

And explain the vetting process they went through with Biden. In particular, I would like to know if they reviewed all of the personnel records from his Senate office.

According to what Tara herself said, the complaint she allegedly filed in 1993 only mentioned harassment, not assault (which doesn't make much sense since back then it seems the bar for what was actionable was higher), but the Obama team was undoubtedly on high alert for any kind of "zipper problems", given that this was only 10 years after the Lewinsky saga and they vetted VP candidates the same month the Edwards sex scandal broke.

[demtenjeep]

26. this is all we need to say

He served 8 years under Barack Obama-the first black man ever for president.

He knew he would be scrutinized constantly so he most assuredly vetted Biden with very special care


This "alleged" assault happened in 93 Biden was VP from 08-16

NOTHING came out until last year??/



she can go jump off a bridge. This is plain lying and story telling
28


15

[Bucky]

75. Her story has been corroborated by at least two friends

One of them has said she recalls being told about this, believes Tara Reade, and yet intends to vote for Biden anyway. I don't know if this accusation is true or not. There's plenty of evidence for doubt. But there's clearly something here besides one (very inconsistent) person simply fabricating an incident in her past.

[qazplm135]

36. Not sure that's gonna do it

But he probably needs to open up all records, and call for a neutral investigation. Deny it clearly and fully and pledge to open up whatever records are requested. He can propose that it be run by a retired FBI agent or ask Ronan Farrow to personally run the investigation.

I think too many on our side are starting to look to Biden to explain now to just continue with she's lying and yes I know she's lying...but sometimes you have to go above to clear things even when it's bull.

[scarletwoman]

39. "...sometimes you have to go above to clear things even when it's bull." Thank you, I appreciate

your response.

He can propose that it be run by a retired FBI agent or ask Ronan Farrow to personally run the investigation.

Thanks - I really think he needs to do something that confronts the accusation head-on.

[Demsrule86]

46. That is what they want...very bad idea....and people on our side are doing no such thing...these are

people who are not on our side and want a different nominee than Biden...fuck them.

[rockfordfile]

81. I agree

[Demsrule86]

48. Just to be clear NO AND NO. That would give her story false credibility. Deny it...make her

background public (not Biden but someone no associated with Biden) and it is over. She can't withstand scrutiny.

[scarletwoman]

56. "She can't withstand scrutiny." That's why I thought a defamation suit would be the way to do that.

I'm certainly willing to concede that it's a bad idea - I don't know anything about lawsuits - but I just feel so strongly that denial from Biden isn't enough.

She needs to be made into a public pariah so that no one in the media wants to touch her story.

[qazplm135]

64. Eh

That just makes her a martyr. You go over the top with transparency and what's left? Nothing.

[democrattotheend]

71. He should also give the University of Delaware permission to release her personnel file

Not all of his records, but just her file. Especially if no complaint was filed, or the allegations in it don't check out with what she's saying today, it would help him.

[emmaverybo]

37. Problem is they are going to keep them coming. New one. She can't remember the year.

[Drunken Irishman]

49. Who?

[emmaverybo]

83. This Tweet thread reveals claim since removed from the web page referring to and the deleted tweet:

Seems this one imploded before getting any traction.

"

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf

[rgbecker]

43. One thing is clear, Al Franken didn't file a defamation suit, and everything worked out for him.

Thought he could ride it out...it seemed so unlikely, the charges.

So there is that.

[mvd]

51. Normally..

Ignoring it would be a reasonable thing to do. But these Repukes have been ruthless before and may be even more so now. I am not sure which action is the best to take, but I don’t think we can rely on mainstream media alone to handle it right. Already they are taking the Repuke bait a bit.

[RDANGELO]

52. I think his strategy shouls depend on what the Republicans do with it.

If they start running swift boat type adds, then he needs to get aggressive. Right now,it would just bring more attention to it. The Trump campaign would be crazy to get into that because of all the allegations against Trump and the credibility of the one against Joe.

[Yavin4]

53. What makes you think that a defamation lawsuit would this go away?

Actually, it would make things extremely worse.

[scarletwoman]

54. I just want to make sure she is thoroughly discredited publicly and in no uncertain terms.

My fear is that things will get worse if there's no counter-attack.

[crickets]

62. I want to see Tara Reade's *story* thoroughly discredited.

It's been done, but in perhaps too muted a fashion.

I don't think that Biden or his campaign can do it, not with the way politics work in the US right now. As suggested above, allies not associated with the campaign may need to step up and defend him while firmly repeating the counts against the reliability of her story and its changes over time.

It seems Tara herself may be unwell, and as angry as I am with her, I want her to get some help. At this point she may actually believe her own story, which is really tragic. Given that, and given some people not as well informed will believe her, publicly beating her up in the news, as opposed to her story, is not a good thing to do.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there is a firm hand on her back shoving her onto the stage. I also think there's some money involved, and not all of it is speaking fees for being interviewed.

The ones I'd love to see personally and thoroughly discredited forever are the people behind her sudden outspoken, ever changing, ever ramped up stories. Somebody is feeding her the new talking points. Is it Putin? Is it Koch money? Betsy DeVos? Someone even closer to trump? Somebody needs to find out who is pushing her. Those are the ratfuckers who really need to bleed.

[scarletwoman]

65. Oh, I'm sure there is a "control" behind her. And it would be great to expose whoever it/they may be

However, as we've seen with trump, it's not so easy to expose the puppet masters AND be believed.

It seems Tara herself may be unwell, and as angry as I am with her, I want her to get some help.

Your compassion is commendable - yet if there are people pulling her strings, isn't it also on her that she's willing to go along with it?

I see this election as a fight to the death - no quarter. There is too much at stake for anything less than that.

[crickets]

67. Food for thought: are you sure she's willing?

I agree with you on the stakes. No doubts about that.

[scarletwoman]

72. Actually, I do think she's willing or she wouldn't be doing it.

If she's not being pushed into swiftboating Biden by an external influence of some sort, my other hypothesis is that she herself made advances toward Biden and was rejected, and has decided to take revenge.

I could concede some kind of sickness in that second scenario, but if she needs help, she would still need to be discredited before she would recognize the need, imho.

[Cha]

55. The DC Police Closed Reade's police report..

Link to tweet

[scarletwoman]

60. Thanks much! This, along with all the evidence in CousinIT's OP that I linked in my OP is why I wish

there was some definitive action that could be taken to publicly discredit Reade, once and for all.

That's why I was thinking of a lawsuit - but almost everyone thinks it's a bad idea. I'm certainly open to some other method.

[thucythucy]

58. Another way to go on the offensive

would be to elevate the visibility of every single woman with a credible allegation against Trump--put them in ads, get them PR help, have them sue (and I know some have already).

Have a PAC do this--not the Biden campaign. Flood the media with ads, statements, events, web casts.

For every story castigating Biden generate ten to remind folks about the pussy tape.

And for god's sake--what ever happened to that safe at the National Enquirer, the one with all the catch and kill stories about Trump?

If Bloomberg is looking for another way to drop ten or fifteen million, this would be my suggestion.

[scarletwoman]

63. I absolutely agree - I think it should be done regardless. (nt)

[Mister Ed]

78. Ding ding ding! The only correct answer in this thread, in my opinion. Here's why:

For Biden's opponents, truth or falsehood just aren't going to matter. All that matters is to get the general public picturing Biden doing what he's accused of. Picturing it over and over, every time the story is discussed.

You know that sick feeling you get in your stomach if you picture it? Everybody else feels the same way. Biden's opponents want everyone to associate that feeling with Joe Biden. And, subconsciously, they will, if the picture is brought to mind with enough repetition.

The only effective counter-strategy is to get people picturing instead the many, many absolutely credible cases of Trump performing cruel and disgusting acts of sexual assault.

The shoe fits Trump - make him wear it.

[The Magistrate]

59. Certainly It Is Necessary To Go On Offense, Ma'am

It is difficult for a public figure to sustain a suit for defamation, and other ways might be better. But certainly this person must be dealt with mercilessly.


"Kill one, warn one hundred."

[scarletwoman]

61. Thank you. I am certainly willing to concede that a lawsuit might not be the best idea.

I just want to see this woman and her accusations be thoroughly and publicly discredited beyond question.

[The Magistrate]

77. One Thing We Certainly Need To Do, Ma'am

Is to get over the idea that we have to be fair to people trying to do us harm. Our enemies cannot effectively assail our political figures without our help. Well-meaning, good-hearted people who tend to the left need to learn not to allow their better natures to be taken advantage of by vicious scum on the right, and splinterest wreckers on the far left, who enlist them in their charges against figures of the center left, by exhorting them to 'be consistent' and telling them 'don't be hypocrites'. The proper response to attempts at this is a hearty "Fuck off! Nobody cares what a rancid piece of dogshit like you thinks!" Or words to that effect....

Only attack the enemy, the christo-fascist right.

Never, ever, attack people who are on your side.

If you want one quick reason why the right wing wields power well out of proportion to the popularity of its policies, it is that they adhere to this rule, and we on the left do not.


"Defeat of a dangerous enemy is something to be for."

[democrattotheend]

68. That thoght has crossed my mind

But I think it's a bad idea that would backfire. It's right out of Trump's playbook and Democratic voters don't have the stomach for Trumpian tactics.

[mopinko]

79. he sure has to do something, and ignoring it wont work.

trouble w law suits is that it wont be settled before nov no matter what.
but a full out investigation of some sort is needed.
imho, this woman is a putin stooge. she needs to be shown up. and yes, shredded.

[obamanut2012]

80. absolutely no

[Cuthbert Allgood]

82. So that everything even kind of bad about him can be talked about?

Not to mention that suing her is a HORRIBLE optic.

[KWR65]

84. I welcome a lawsuit to clear up this matter.

While the lawsuit is underway Biden should withdraw from the election.