The next time the MAGAT assholes decide to protest at a state capitol building with guns

[Eko]

They should be met with this.

[dhol82]

1. I just don't understand how armed civilians are allowed to storm a state capital

I always thought that was illegal.
What happened?

[ooky]

5. Me either. What happens if one of them opens fire? nt

[StarfishSaver]

15. White

[dhol82]

18. Seems to be the answer

Any POC and we get a lockdown.

[sheshe2]

62. Yup

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213382159

[dware]

17. It is not illegal in Michigan,

Open carry is allowed in the Michigan State Capitol, it's stupid, but until the law is changed, there is nothing these jackasses did that was illegal, not deserve a violent armed response by law enforcement or the National Guard, as many here are advocating.

[dhol82]

19. Then no one will mind if a state legislator is killed?

[dware]

22. Where in the world did you come up with that? nt

[dhol82]

25. See post 24

[dware]

28. What about Post 24?

If someone assaults, injures, or kills a legislator, then the person or persons responsible will be arrested, prosecuted, convicted and sent to prison.

Where do you come up with that no one will mind?

[dhol82]

33. Oh, puhleeze, get a grip.

You have never heard of hyperbole!

[dware]

34. There are been several posts about commiting violence against these jackasses,

in the last 2 days, despite there being no law broken, so just how was I supposed to know it was hyperbole?

If someone needs to get a grip, it sure isn't me.

[dhol82]

35. Have a good life.

Buh-bye

[dware]

37. You too. nt

[cwydro]

47. You're not alone.

Some posts here lately have been appalling.

[pazzyanne]

65. Agree! nt

[ProfessorGAC]

79. Intimidation Can Be, In Some Cases, Criminal

You had to know this already.
If you think that display had anything to do with any issue beyond intimidation, you didn't look closely enough.

[Blue_true]

24. That is the biggest concern.

Rank and file Legistlators don't have security teams protecting them. I they close physically threaten the Governor or Legistlature senior leader, the protective people around those officials will have a SWAT team on their asses faster than stink on shit. But the junior Legistlators can be assaulted by those clowns.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

74. Legislators put on body armor during the invasion & Governor had to be protected & barricaded. nt

[Blue_true]

77. All of that was ridiculous. Every single protester that was armed should have been jailed. nt

[dware]

84. Jailed for what?

They didn't do anything illegal, it's legal to open carry in MI. including the State Capitol, so what would you have them jailed for?

The law is stupid and should be repealed, but until then, they did nothing illegal.

[Blue_true]

88. Open carry and making implied threats are two very different things.

Their asses should have been tossed in jail for making implied threats against public officials. And if they resisted arrest, an appropriate amount of force should have been used against them - if they didn't survive that, so be it.

[dware]

89. Well, apparently the state police on scene didn't see it that way. nt

[Blue_true]

90. Since neither you nor I were there, neither of us have any idea about the orders State Police were

given. So you presumption that they would have done nothing under any instruction is speculative.

[dware]

91. It would seem we're both speculating here.

Anyways, have a great evening and stay safe.

[Blue_true]

92. Yeah. People are supposed to speculate only over good alcohol, and I don't drink.

[Mariana]

39. Please don't pretend to be stupid. nt.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

75. Please don't pretend to fail to comprehend a rhetorical question

This may help you: https://literarydevices.net/rhetorical-question/

[Eko]

43. Sure, they just have to be told to leave and when they dont arrest them.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/05/30/protesters-michigan-capitol-building-arrests/654977002/

[dware]

45. Exactly!!!

Somebody gets it, if they're told to leave, and they don't, then they're trespassing.

[Eko]

49. Also,

exactly who on here was advocating for a violent armed response by law enforcement or the National Guard? Before you made that post.

[dware]

51. Here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213372611

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1002

The next time the MAGAT assholes decide to protest at a state ...

[Eko]

52. Calling the national guard

is not advocating for a violent armed response at all.

[dware]

54. Read the whole thread.

There are numerous posts advocating just that.

[Eko]

56. I meant on this thread

I didn't realize you meant on DU. No worries.

[dware]

57. No problem,

and thank you for keeping it civil.

You have a great day and life.

[Eko]

81. Same to you.

Keep on keeponing.
Eko.

[doc03]

60. If those were black men they would have been arrested or maybe

even shot if there was an excuse. Like that asshole screaming in the cop's face, the cop would have felt threatened
if that was a black guy. In many states the Stand Your Ground Law would apply.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

73. 1st A, anybody? What is illegal is carrying a sign into the Capitol. There is a posted notice

Some people think 2nd Amendment supercedes the First. I think it should be be the other way around. The First should be supreme.

A sign threatens nobody. You can mandate "no sticks" if you like.

Do you have a right to open-carry an AR-15 onto a military base? Into a hospital? Into a church? Into a school?

[captain queeg]

2. Exactly. Those dipsticks are endangering anyone within a mile

Approximate range of an AK rifle.

[NBachers]

3. Where are those chain link "Free Speech Zones" where they can mill around and krap their pants?

[roamer65]

4. I emailed my Governor and asked her to use the Michigan National Guard.

[niyad]

7. As I understand it, your state is open carry? And Monday is the 50th anniversary of Kent State.

[lastlib]

10. Not Tuesday, Monday. May 4th, 1970.

--- ---

[niyad]

12. Thank you.

[roamer65]

86. Not when martial law is implemented.

I am all in on her making the declaration.

With these freaks intimidating legislators and a security guard shot and killed in Flint over the mask rule, it is time to call out our National Guard units.

[dware]

11. Use the NG?

For what exactly?

What laws did these airheads break that would justify calling out the NG?

[CaptYossarian]

16. You mean that wasn't the Ferguson (MO) P.D.?

[dware]

20. Naw, the protesters weren't black,

but if they had been, then all bets are off despite it being legal to open carry in the Michigan State Capitol.

[Crunchy Frog]

82. To make the Body Baggers aware of the presence of law enforcement,

and let them know that they can't use their tiny penis compensaters for intimidation purposes.

Surely it's just as legal for law enforcement to open carry as it is for demonstrators.

They would only use the guns if it became necessary.

[dware]

83. But why the NG?

Why not the local and state police? Why use military units?
That seems to be a bit over kill if you ask me.

[Crunchy Frog]

85. Overkill is storming a government building with military style weapons,

with the obvious intent of making people inti.idated and threatened, in order to try to pressure them politically.

It's good to let them know that their intimidation tactics will not work, and that any violence on their part will be immediately dealt with.

It's telling them that the government is serious and not messing around.

It sounds like you think they should be coddled. I don't agree.

[dware]

87. It sounds like you think they should be coddled.

It sounds like you're making things up.

The NG is not needed, local and state authorities can handle this, no military units are needed.

[outis]

6. Open carry is legal in Michigan

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/mi-gun-laws/

[niyad]

9. Welcome to DU.

[dhol82]

13. Gosh, does that mean someone can shoot and kill the governor because they were offended?

[dware]

23. No, it doesn't as I suspect that you know that. nt

[Blue_true]

29. My guess is the Governor always has a protective detail around her.

I would seriously doubt that they would get within viewing distance of her. It is one thing for them to protest in front of her home, it is totally another if they try violence against her while near her home, in the latter, they would open up massive problems for themselves, at all legal levels, they may not even live through such an event.

Even when I seriously dislike a certain public official, I would NEVER tolerate that person being publicly harmed. We get rid of assholes through voting, that is simply how a democracy works, to encourage any thing else endangers us all.

[dware]

30. +100. nt

[Aristus]

8. What makes you so sure the Sheriff's Office will be on the Governor's side?

The same power-mad, gun-crazed, limp-dick man-boys, only with badges.

[Eko]

21. Ok then,

State police in swat gear. Sheesh, it wasn't about having Sheriffs it was about giving them a taste of their own actions.

[Aristus]

26. I would think any police force would be more in sympathy with the gun nuts

than the government.

It's why white mass murders get taken in alive, with maybe a side trip to Burger King, and a black child playing with a toy gun gets shot to death.

[Caliman73]

64. You think wrong.

While many rank and file are divided, Police Chief Associations and Sheriffs groups often come down on the side of more gun control. The people responsible for law and order, especially in more densely packed areas, do not want a bunch of people carrying loaded firearms.

There is definitely a racial component to this equation, but as I said, generally the people in charge, giving the orders, are not loving the proliferation of firearms.

You may be conflating different things. The response in general by law enforcement (even officers of color) to White and Black people versus the idea that more guns is better. Police definitely have a problem with assessing danger to Black skin, even when unarmed and cooperating than to White skin even when armed and yelling at them. Like I said though, there aren't many urban and suburban Police Chiefs and Sheriffs that are calling for guns to be unrestricted.

[Aristus]

66. Do these associations make campaign donations?

Because if they do, they're being outspent by the NRA.

[Caliman73]

71. I don't know if they make donations.

AND of course they are being outspent by the NRA. The NRA is the mouth piece of the gun manufacturing industry that takes in billions of dollars. Police Chiefs and Sheriffs may make decent money but they certainly do not generate billions in profit each year.

That has nothing to do with the general consensus of public safety officers. Unions put out a good deal of money to advance labor causes but they are incredibly out spent by corporations and industry groups. That doesn't mean that Unions aren't for better labor conditions.

[Sogo]

14. In 1970, Vietnam protests on college campuses were.

I was there.

[dhol82]

27. .....

[LakeArenal]

31. They could at least tear gas them.

[dware]

32. Tear gas them for not breaking any law?

What is this crap?

[LakeArenal]

36. For unlawful assembly. No permit.

I recall women in peaceful protests get tear gassed straight in their eyes. Protesters were arrested and physically abused. That’s a sacrifice real protesters expect.

Break out the water guns.

[dware]

38. So 2 wrongs make a right?

[LakeArenal]

40. To you with your condescending head butt.

[dware]

41. BTW, there was no unlawful assembly,

it is perfectly legal to carry weapons into the Michigan State Capitol.

I can't believe what I've been reading here in the last couple of days.

[outis]

42. Amen. nt.

[Eko]

44. Doesnt matter.

See my post 43.

[dware]

46. Saw it.

Answered it.

[cwydro]

50. I hear ya.

Smh.

[dware]

55. Thank you.

This isn't the DU I remember when I first joined in 2001,

[cwydro]

58. I joined later than you, but I agree.

Things have changed around here.

Fascinating to see newbs post over 3000 in less than 30 days, isn’t it?

[dware]

59. Yes it is.

Makes me wonder if...……..well, I think you get my drift.

[larwdem]

68. Laws need

to be changed, they're rights fuck, what about our rights not to be shot

[KentuckyWoman]

48. No.

Yes the guns bother me, but these aren't the ones to worry about. It is the ones we don't ever see plotting the next Oklahoma City.

I see no point giving this bunch any more publicity or reason to make more idiotic claims about the gubmint taking their guns. Not to mention putting troops in harms way.

[dware]

53. And another voice of reason.

Thank you KentucyWoman.

[StClone]

69. Logical yes and it is all lawful, but

(By the way I've been here since 2002 and I agree with you and KentuckyW.)

But extenuate the situation: What if we had Armed DUers fully decked out and counter protest on site? It would all be legal and logical, correct? But do you believe two opposing groups fully armed at a State Capitol would be of no concern to Law Enforcement? Do you think it would be unactionable by law enforcement? Even if peaceful would it not be seen as an "extremely dangerous" assemblage. I think it would be treated very differently even though it fell under a reasonable, logical, though hypothetical, extension of the scenario which did arise. Allowing armed protesters at (and in) a State Capitol is an absurdity though within the law.

[Nitram]

61. That's exactly why the national guards were formed. To put down rebellions against the state.

We should have done that back with the fucking Bundy's. It's time to take back control from the Magats.

[iluvtennis]

63. Exactly. The protesters at Huntington Beach, CA were arrested on Friday. The terrorists a-holes

that swarmed the Michigan Capitol Building on Thursday should have been arrested as well. Had they been Black, Latino, Muslim, etc with guns, they would have been arrested in a heartbeat.

[MichMan]

67. Is it legal to open carry in California ?

It is in Michigan.

Do you want them being able to sue for false arrest?

[iluvtennis]

70. California is not an open carry state. It was outlawed back in 1967 after members of the Black

Panther Party marched into the capitol building.

police arrested the group on felony charges of conspiracy to disrupt a legislative session


Here’s How The Nation Responded When A Black Militia Group Occupied A Government Building

[MichMan]

78. Are you saying that Michigan residents should be arrested for violating Califonia laws ?

[LiberalFighter]

72. I would consider showing up with guns not protected under Fighting Words Doctrine.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fighting_words

[eppur_se_muova]

76. Nah, these are reserved for more pigmented people.

(Yeah, that's Ferguson, MO)

[iluvtennis]

80. Exactly. nt