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kentuck

(111,499 posts)
Sun May 3, 2020, 08:35 AM May 2020

Do you agree that some states are in better shape to open their economies than some others?

Last edited Sun May 3, 2020, 09:37 AM - Edit history (1)

Assuming that everything must open up at some time or other, some states have more of a downward trend in the occurrence of the virus and some have an upward trend. A few have more or less flatlined for the last few days. They are all still losing lives to the virus.

These states feel like they have no choice but to open their states up to more normal traffic and business. Some scientists fear it may be too early for some of these states to open? Many fear it may create a rebound, or a second wave of the virus, which could be even more deadly?

Do you think they are moving too quickly or too slowly?

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Do you agree that some states are in better shape to open their economies than some others? (Original Post) kentuck May 2020 OP
our state is very proactive and I feel safe with what Gov Inslee has proposed.. samnsara May 2020 #1
States can do mandatory testing of people flying in. It will slow things Blue_true May 2020 #21
Here in WNY (Rochester) our cases have been increasing... EarthFirst May 2020 #2
some states and specific locations within states are in better shape. Its a tough call but beachbumbob May 2020 #3
Based on what? The CDC has been compromised so their guidelines are suspect. gibraltar72 May 2020 #4
I live in Texas. It's too quick. We haven't even reached our peak here yet Shell_Seas May 2020 #5
Maybe, but it's not the ones who are actually opening theirs. GoCubsGo May 2020 #6
Vermont is doing well and very slowly opening janterry May 2020 #7
Not really. Jamastiene May 2020 #8
It's not that simple. We don't have closed borders in each state JI7 May 2020 #9
Exactly Marrah_Goodman May 2020 #12
NO! Remember America; "One for Cartaphelius May 2020 #10
Your question can't be answered properly. gab13by13 May 2020 #11
No MoonlitKnight May 2020 #13
Long Island, NY is barely recovering with caseloads reducing, but, not only is that not... TreasonousBastard May 2020 #14
Seems to me the chances of getting infected aren't lower than they were two weeks ago, it's wiggs May 2020 #15
Impossible to determine without massive testing of the NoMoreRepugs May 2020 #16
Cases can start to double in three days Shermann May 2020 #17
It is total bullshit Wawannabe May 2020 #18
Not yet, the first thing that "they" said about reopening is a decrease in the number of cases MiniMe May 2020 #19
If states put in place mandatory wearing of mask while in public and Blue_true May 2020 #20
Yes, for a variety of reasons. Some states have more stable leadership... Alex4Martinez May 2020 #22
I follow the NYTimes data. qwlauren35 May 2020 #23

samnsara

(17,846 posts)
1. our state is very proactive and I feel safe with what Gov Inslee has proposed..
Sun May 3, 2020, 08:45 AM
May 2020

..he pretty much has a plan laid out and we have got on top of this, but one plane full of peeps from those states who arent as aggressively treating the virus as we are, may tax our health systems and all the counts will go UP again and we will be back to square one..and the Gov has said as much....no matter what caused the rise.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
21. States can do mandatory testing of people flying in. It will slow things
Sun May 3, 2020, 11:36 PM
May 2020

up some, but the alternative is worse.

EarthFirst

(2,925 posts)
2. Here in WNY (Rochester) our cases have been increasing...
Sun May 3, 2020, 08:50 AM
May 2020

Last week we were adding roughly 30 new cases per day at the beginning of the week; which grew to the mid forties. Yesterday the County Executive update had 50 new cases in Monroe County.

Recorded deaths are steadily in the 3-5 per day; we’ve recorded 126 deaths in the past month.

We’ve roughly tested 0.018% of the county with 14,047 tests administered.

Our local graph is still rising with no flattening.

We’ve not met the Phase I threshold of 14 days of declining numbers.

We still have twelve days until our statewide stay-at-home order expires.

I’m not sure if we’ll be extended or not; however we currently do not meet the metrics...

It’s my personal opinion that no; we are not ready yet.


 

beachbumbob

(9,263 posts)
3. some states and specific locations within states are in better shape. Its a tough call but
Sun May 3, 2020, 08:52 AM
May 2020

this COVID not going away and we need to rethink and relearn how to function under this new paradigm. Staying at home is NOT the longterm solution

gibraltar72

(7,544 posts)
4. Based on what? The CDC has been compromised so their guidelines are suspect.
Sun May 3, 2020, 08:52 AM
May 2020

I think until independent scientists say so no state is safe. Keep in mind some of these states hospital systems would be overwhelmed by just a few cases.

GoCubsGo

(32,357 posts)
6. Maybe, but it's not the ones who are actually opening theirs.
Sun May 3, 2020, 08:58 AM
May 2020

The vast majority of them are really, really, really jumping the gun on this. A lot of them are still on the upswing as far as contagion and deaths go. It's sad to see so many people going along with it.

 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
7. Vermont is doing well and very slowly opening
Sun May 3, 2020, 09:01 AM
May 2020

our Gov. will shut things down if our numbers increase markedly. I think we are doing the right things and are in good shape to take the measured steps (towards opening) that we are currently taking.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
8. Not really.
Sun May 3, 2020, 09:06 AM
May 2020

It depends on what outcomes are acceptable.

Sure, states could go ahead and reopen and let the chips fall where they may on who lives, who dies, and who catches it and who doesn't. Dr. Oz said sending kids back to school and 2 to 3% dying was acceptable. I don't agree with him at all on that.

It depends on what outcomes a person believes are acceptable.

Sure, some states could reopen and not have a super high casualty rate, compared to say, NY or California, but a lot of those states that plan to reopen are also states that have crap health insurance coverage because they were allowed to opt out of the Medicaid expansion. The people who do die in those states are going to die slow and painful deaths.

I am in one of those states that did not expand Medicaid and and this state did not offer those of us who would have qualified for it any acceptable insurance rates that we could afford. If we qualified for expanded Medicaid we don't have $500 a month for a catastrophic only plan with a $9,000 deductible. I don't find that acceptable at all. If I get this virus, I will have to stay home and suffer until either my body fights it off or I die, whichever happens. I don't find that acceptable at all either.

I also do not like the likelihood of more sickness and death, that doing it without thinking and without decent health insurance coverage in the states that have decided or are getting ready to decide to reopen. Most of the states I have seen deciding to reopen are the same ones that decided to just opt out of so much of Obamacare. It is going to hurt Democrats in those states more than anyone, because we are the ones who fell through the cracks when the Republicans started dismantling parts of Obamacare in those states. THAT, I have a real problem with.

Technically, depending on what outcomes you find acceptable, that question could be answered either way, but in reality, we are a global economy. Those states that do open are going to have a very limited amount of goods available to ship here and there and a limited amount of work to actually do with so much of the rest of the world still on lock down. I honestly don't see how a state in the US here and a state in the US there is going to bring the global economy off its knees.

I think they are moving too quickly and without thinking it through first. I don't see how they think they are going to pull it off. I don't see it happening with any success. Chances are, it is going to cause a clusterfuck and workers are going to be up in the air as to what they can and cannot do with regards to goods and services they will and will not have access to to even ship here or there. Manufacturing isn't in America as much any more. Most of America nowadays is retail. Are those goods to sell even available right now? Also, without banning interstate travel, how are those states going to stay less affected?

Reopening anything without thinking of the few things I have thought of and many many more things more educated and experienced community leaders will think of that I did not seems like a premature idea without much thought at all going into it. This will all need to be coordinated MUCH better than just reopening a state here and reopening a state there to make the gun toting whiny babies clogging up state capitols in those states shut up and go away.

Without some coordination, I don't think a piecemeal effort is going to be effective at all unless every single state that reopens builds toilet paper manufacturing plants and gets busy making us some damn TP and shipping it all over the world. That might work.

JI7

(89,580 posts)
9. It's not that simple. We don't have closed borders in each state
Sun May 3, 2020, 09:10 AM
May 2020

People are free to go from one place to another.

It might be true one area might be doing better than another area but things can easily change .

There has to be a certain process in place . Some of it has to be national standards and some could be local .

With a real President they would already have been working with states and even the international community on how to deal with this at all levels.

Marrah_Goodman

(1,586 posts)
12. Exactly
Sun May 3, 2020, 09:15 AM
May 2020

Rhode island is doing a great job with testing, mandatory masks and limited customers in stores. However, Mass and Conn are on either side of the state and still are dealing with high numbers. If RI opens they will be swarmed with people from both states. This will make for long lines, crowds and the possibility of our numbers rising faster.

 

Cartaphelius

(868 posts)
10. NO! Remember America; "One for
Sun May 3, 2020, 09:10 AM
May 2020

all and All for one"

The ubiquitous "you" doesn't have the RIGHT to DEMAND
that I actively participate in your in activities that
threatens MY RIGHT to LIVE.

gab13by13

(22,627 posts)
11. Your question can't be answered properly.
Sun May 3, 2020, 09:12 AM
May 2020

Everything depends on how much a state tested. Some states look like they are in good shape because they did little testing.
States like Florida are taking the next step and hiding Covid deaths.

States that tested and look good, have at it slowly. States that didn't test like Florida and Georgia are going to get pasted.

Texas will get pasted too. 25% of Texans don't have health insurance.

I hope I'm wrong but I fear that the US will be one of the last countries to recover from this virus, health wise and economically.

MoonlitKnight

(1,584 posts)
13. No
Sun May 3, 2020, 09:23 AM
May 2020

The whole reason we had to have a “lockdown “ was because of the lack of testing and contact tracing needed to keep it contained. It wasn’t taken seriously then and isn’t now.

If, and only if, people would take it seriously and wear masks, wash hand and social distance (be responsible) then we could open up just about everything.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
14. Long Island, NY is barely recovering with caseloads reducing, but, not only is that not...
Sun May 3, 2020, 09:26 AM
May 2020

representative of the whole state, the two counties here are not on the same track. And we he some pretty nasty hotspots.

So, no-- I don't believe we should jump the gun and open up just because people are complaining. And their complaints are not without merit. Restaurants everyone's pointing out? On the East End many of the better ones are closed anyway because it's so seasonal here. You've got Memorial Day through Labor day to make your profit and more than one has gone under just because of too many rainy weekends. That means every day they are closed they are one day closer to ruin. Bowling alleys, skating rinks, zoos & aquariums, retail, movie theaters and parks and beaches are no different than anywhere else in the country and are doing what they can to survive and adjust. Local agriculture has its own problems, not the least which is farmers are sitting on land at times worth a couple of hundred thousand an acre (and more if it's waterfront) and expenses piling up, labor tough to find, and the kids not interested in taking over the business. Selling your 30-50 acres of corn and houseplants to the developers often isn't a choice any more.

Even our local animal shelters have closed their doors for now. They are still taking care of the critters, but put your adoption plans on hold until this is over.

We're hurting, and it's not simply spoiled children and greed pushing to open things up-- it's survival and too many unanswered questions about the future. But, through it all, this area is trying to work it out and come up with a solution that will not be unintentional suicide.





wiggs

(7,883 posts)
15. Seems to me the chances of getting infected aren't lower than they were two weeks ago, it's
Sun May 3, 2020, 09:51 AM
May 2020

just that now it's more likely you'll have a hospital bed and a ventilator if you need them.

Sure, we know more about the virus (still not everything by a long shot), and hospitals are more prepared. Society is more prepared for you if you're infected. But I don't see how going out to a restaurant or going to school now is any more safe than it would have been anytime in the last month. You aren't more immune, people are still contagious while asymptomatic, there are still more cases than reported, employees still haven't all been tested, and the virus can still last on surfaces for days. Remember, Fauci said that wherever you think you are in the life of a pandemic, you're at least two weeks behind that in reality. So if your particular area is a hot spot, we wouldn't know it until two weeks into the spike. Too late. (On top of that, as Reich said, not testing is a likely WH tactic to keep numbers down and speed re-opening...so some areas are likely flying blind).

In some ways, perhaps areas that aren't hard hit yet are more vulnerable...lots of new folks without antibodies, who don't think there's a need to be careful because there aren't enough personal stories about infected friends and loved ones, and political leaders who are rushing to get donors their customers. I know...social distancing and washing hands. But if you're still supposed to do that in a re-opened state doesn't it imply that there are still contagious people around?

Until there's a vaccine or herd immunity I believe there's still significant risk, and each person needs to decide if participating in re-opening is worth it.

I do believe that there's a cost to society and to individuals/families if we remain in strict lockdown, so I understand the calculation but I think some politicians aren't calculating objectively and I believe people aren't being effectively informed about the continued risk in reopened areas.

Shermann

(7,760 posts)
17. Cases can start to double in three days
Sun May 3, 2020, 09:54 AM
May 2020

So a state that is in "good shape" can transition to "bad shape" very quickly.

Fauci has said the 14 days of decline is somewhat arbitrary.

I keep hearing that the worst is behind us. That's like saying the worst part about getting up for work is pressing the alarm snooze button the first time. At some point we have to get out of bed and face the day. We'll know what's what this month it seems.

Wawannabe

(5,826 posts)
18. It is total bullshit
Sun May 3, 2020, 12:16 PM
May 2020

To have some states (or some counties in a state) reopen when others will not open.

People will flock to the open signs out there.

WA state has identified 10 counties that can apply for waivers from the phased opening...this is not fair to do, AND it will send people to those counties when they would not have gone there before.

I live in King county. A county that is WAY too big. Seattle city is in this county as are very rural areas. The very rural areas in King county are being lumped in with city center population. BUT some rural counties in WA can reopen?

No, I don’t agree one bit with lockdown in the first place .... or reopening in phases because it will not be the same for everyone. And it hasn’t been. Some people get to earn an income and many thousands have had their income cut off like a hand. Fuck all of it!

We are free people. We should act better.

MiniMe

(21,742 posts)
19. Not yet, the first thing that "they" said about reopening is a decrease in the number of cases
Sun May 3, 2020, 09:38 PM
May 2020

for 2 weeks. Nobody has met that threshold yet.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
20. If states put in place mandatory wearing of mask while in public and
Sun May 3, 2020, 11:34 PM
May 2020

mandate social distancing in workplaces, then maybe reopening would work. China, Hong Kong, South Korea seem to have taken that exact route.

Alex4Martinez

(2,283 posts)
22. Yes, for a variety of reasons. Some states have more stable leadership...
Sun May 3, 2020, 11:42 PM
May 2020

...other states are at different points in the stages of their virus infection and recovery and testing rates.

I might suggest that Washington State, for example, is in a better position to begin opening up than many other states.

qwlauren35

(6,162 posts)
23. I follow the NYTimes data.
Sun May 3, 2020, 11:47 PM
May 2020
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

Hawaii, Arkansas, Montana, Idaho look like they are in good shape to re-open.

For some sad reason, my state of Maryland keeps going up, despite all of our efforts.

Our governor said that we would gradually re-open after 14 days of decreasing cases. The states I've named are pretty much there.

***IF*** they have the hospital beds and PPE resources to handle a surge, I can see them re-opening.
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