NYT columnist calling on Biden to be replaced is a socialist

[Morigami]

Elizabeth Bruenig wrote a column yesterday titled "Democrats, It’s Time to Consider a Plan B".

Bruenig previously wrote a Washington Post piece titled "It’s time to reclaim ‘socialism’ from the dirty-word category".
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/its-time-to-reclaim-socialism-from-the-dirty-word-category/2018/08/19/88c9d87e-a247-11e8-83d2-70203b8d7b44_story.html

Sometimes she calls herself "Democratic Socialist", which is the same thing, as a Grannysmith apple is still an apple.

[Voltaire2]

1. and your point is what?

[marble falls]

2. Democrats ain't socialists and socialists ain't Democrats? Next time run a Socialist candidate?

[Voltaire2]

6. I'm a Democrat and a Socialist.

So are approximately 30-40% of our party base.

[Loki Liesmith]

11. That's a really high number.

[Voltaire2]

13. Sanders consistently polled in that range.

And he was totally open about his socilaist beliefs.

[brush]

29. And he keeps losing. The country will not elect a socialist. That should be clear by now.

[Voltaire2]

30. gosh not my point at all.

The poster I responded to asserted that no democrats are socialists and that is obviously false.

[Trumpocalypse]

44. I voted for Sanders in 16

and I am not a socialist.

[mcar]

28. Proof of that?

Just bc people voted for Bernie doesn't mean they are socialist.

[BComplex]

39. I'm a Democratic Socialist, as well. Republicans are Corporate Socialists.

I like my kind better.

[Caliman73]

26. Do you know that there are different types of socialism?

Socialism can be both political and economic, but it is primarily an economic system that takes the means of production out of the hands of private owners and puts it into collective ownership.

Democratic Socialism is the idea of having a socialist (collective control) economy and a democratic form of government.

You can argue that it has not been tried or has not been successful to have a fully socialist government, but saying what you said about mutual exclusivity is not correct.

[BComplex]

41. Actually the way democratic socialism is practiced in most developed nations, it is actually

a well-regulated capitalistic system, with certain elements handled by the government (social system) such as medical care, education, etc., and benefits to the social system as opposed to taxes (the country's finances) benefitting, primarily, the means and owners of capital (corporations), as it is in the united states.

[Caliman73]

46. That is not socialism. That is Social Democracy.

Social Democracy is a very good system as long as politicians are not captured by industry and well financed lobbying groups. It is not however, socialism.

Socialism and Capitalism as economic foundations are diametrically opposed as there differences are in who controls the means of production. Social Democracy tries to blend the systems but would identify itself more as a capitalist country.

[BComplex]

47. Social Democracy. Democratic Socialism. Same thing.

[Caliman73]

48. Nope. It isn't. Bernie conflated the two and it stuck.

Here is a primer:

[Morigami]

3. That she has a motive

Socialists believe there is no difference between voting Democratic and Republican.
And they have bones to pick because their favorite candidate didn't win Democratic primaries. Now if you don't mind let me ask you if you agree with her that Biden should be replaced.
I do not.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. "Socialists believe there is no difference between voting Democratic and Republican" is your opinion

and it has no foundation. It's a stupid attack. If you want to attack socialism, then examine it first, rather than saying the first nasty thing that leaps into your mind.

[Voltaire2]

9. Some socialists believe that. So do some capitalists.

Perhaps you might want to refrain from obviously false categorical assertions.

[H2O Man]

20. +1

[Jirel]

15. That's horse crap.

Been reading too many right wing troll memes lately from the fake Bernie-bro agitators actually trying to elect Dump? There IS an active disinformation campaign out there, you know, trying to get as many on the left to stay home instead of voting as possible. Most on the far left get it, that we can argue AFTER we get rid of Dump. You’re playing right into their scheme with this false narrative that Socialists believe there is no difference, and helping CREATE the split.

Next time, don’t think of Socialists as “they” - say “we” because WE MAKE UP A HUGE CUNK OF THE DEMOCRATIC VOTER BASE. And we’re voting to get Dump out. Get it?

[BComplex]

42. That is total bullshit.

That is totally inflamatory and NOT TRUE. Take your propaganda to Fox and leave the rest of us alone.

[wryter2000]

4. Does she have an editor who approved the piece?

Socialists should be able to write columns, and papers should print them, but this person is pushing a story that has no basis in fact.

[Vogon_Glory]

5. So, Ms. Breunig, can you regail us with stories about

President Nader’s two successful terms in office?

Unfortunately for the keepers of the flame who hoped that the Tara Reade thing would give them a victory that Democratic Party primary voters denied them, their star witness’s story seems to be falling apart.

[Voltaire2]

10. regail. I doubt she is going to regain you.

[Loki Liesmith]

12. Regale even

[Scurrilous]

7. Plan B can go fuck itself.

[Hav]

14. Not worth the attention

It was posted here yesterday as well. It's a poorly written, manipulative and dishonest piece by a Bernie supporter. You could find thousands of opinion pieces for any position. It follows the same rationale: Either install Bernie against the will of the people or if it can't be Bernie, then it can't Biden as well.
Sore losers.

[Squinch]

16. Never heard of her, don't give a shit what she thinks.

[OKNancy]

17. Elizabeth and Matt Bruenig are very ardent Sanders people

He says things like this on twitter: trump is a better president than bush, but that's a very low bar, hates Warren and led some nastiness against her.

here is his twitter if you would like to see what an ass he is: https://twitter.com/MattBruenig

[Squinch]

35. So? I am a very ardent supporter of Joe. Do I get a NYT op-ed?

And, no. I don't give a shit what he says either.

[coeur_de_lion]

18. NY Times has pissed me off so many times this year

Cancelled my subscription months ago.

[Amishman]

23. They are falling into the trap of focusing on attention grabbing over accuracy

I understand that they are in a tough industry, but they shouldn't compromise on their legacy of integrity.

[coeur_de_lion]

27. taking us right back to 2016

idiots

[IowaGuy]

19. Seems to me one thing has been proven thru this COVID-19 debacle.....

We all are socialists....Democrat, Republican, conservative, liberal, black, white, yellow, brown, gay, straight, investor class, working class.....The only question is is how delusional or ignorant you are to see the degree that you individually are a socialist and admit it.

[HeartachesNhangovers]

36. You seem to have an unusually broad definition of socialism. The normal

definition of socialism is a political system where the means of production is owned or controlled by the people, rather than by individuals or corporate entities. Under this normal definition, I am not a socialist, nor are most Americans.

[IowaGuy]

54. Perhaps my definition of a socialist is a little broad compared to some, however

here in the U.S. We have public lands, owned by the people, yet logged and grazed on and mined by private entities. We have a post office, owned by the government, perhaps the very first foray into socialism by the U.S gov't in the 1800's. We have transportation facilities from interstates to state to county highways to highly managed waterways such as the Mississippi, Missouri and Ohio rivers whose flood control, gates, locks and levees are all owned by the government, Airports that are owned by gov't entities. We have hundreds of thousands of research and scientific efforts that are funded by government grants. We have thousands and thousands private entities such as oil companies, banks, investment firms whose business models are clearly modeled on privatizing profits and socializing risks, either through bailouts, tax breaks or environmental or safety regulations that shift risk away from the investors to the public at large.

We have a social safety net that provides medical care and food thru a patchwork of outright government funded programs like VA, Medicaid , SNAP, etc that are clearly a redistribution of dollars from taxpayers at large to a smaller subset of the populace.

Even the military, we have dozens and dozens of bases within our own country that the military doesn't need or want, yet are kept open in individual states as basically make work projects and a way to pump money into individual states for political reasons.

Pretty much everybody received couple a so-called stimulus check, that did not come from their own efforts, but was a redistribution of wealth from future generations to this one. Small businesses lined up for 0% forgivable loans, with the only string attached (by the government) that they not lay people off. Again money that was taken from future generations, a clear redistribution of wealth from the government and some government mandated control of production.

All this and I stiil have not mentioned the two government programs that conservatives decry constantly as socialism, Social Security and Medicare. Two programs they have consistently tried to dismember for decades.

None of these things I have mentioned could possibly be described as "capitalism". In truth, Ayn Rand was right about one thing. Capitalism is an unknown ideal. It has always collapsed upon itself when unfettered and required government intervention eventually in order to survive in some modified form. Some people call this intervention socialism, some call it democratic socialism, I can't for the life of me figure out what a self defined capitalist calls it even though they eventually all cry the loudest for it when it benefits them.

I guess I am tired with the pussy footing around the semantics of what it is called. To me, if you support or have taken advantage of any of these things, you are a socialist and should just embrace the reality of that. Doesn't mean you can't simultaneously embrace capitalistic ideas or the benefits of capitalism. In fact, some mixture of the two philosophies are needed from each other for either to survive. It isn't a question of some purity either/ or philosophical commitment. It's a question of how you mix the two together.

So, maybe your right, my definition would technically be broad for some people. Just one question, not meant to question anybodies firmly held philosophies or to create any arguments, because I suspect you and I are largely on the same page politically...but, can anybody be only a little bit socialist, anymore than they can be a little bit pregnant?

[Amishman]

21. No. its too late, too disruptive, and Joe is a solid candidate

This Plan B talk is nothing short of attempted sabotage, and as I posted last night, a lot of it seems to be instigated by the rightwingers.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

22. Haven't read the Biden article, yet,

but she is absolutely right that "socialism" needs to be removed from the scary bin. Isn't that something we all agree with?

[brush]

33. Know your country. America is far from ready to elect a socialist.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

49. Don't think I said that.

I'm saying that we need to stop "socialism" from being a bad word. Do you disagree? Or do you think it should stay the boogey man?

[brush]

51. The term social democracy might fly, a market economy with a robust safety net...

Last edited Tue May 5, 2020, 12:03 AM - Edit history (2)

for it's people, yes (the Nordic model).

But socialism? No.

Three generations here—the greatest, boomers and GenXers still the largest voting block and schooled during their formative years that socialism and all associated with it (failed communist collectives, Stalinist purges, the Cuban missile crisis, the cold war, the iron curtain, Red China, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, et al) were toxic and antithetical to American values.

Of course many matured and grew a more sophisticated, nuanced view of social policies and government's role in offering social safety nets.

But many millions of those voters still hold the doctrinaire, old views and consider socialism anathema and would never vote for a socialist, even if he calls himself a democratic socialist. That's why I say know your country.

I still can't get over Sanders' naivete (who should know this, having lived here all his life), over two presidential cycles, in thinking that could happen. He essentially wasted our time for all those years of attacking the "Democratic Establishment" and alienating his followers against Clinton which helped trump win, and there is a possibility that Biden can be weakened (the Tara Reade smear) enough for even a humongous fuck-up like trump to get re-elected.

[GulfCoast66]

52. No. Socialism has a defined meaning worldwide. Except in America on both right and left.

Socialism is defined as State(collective) control of the means of production. Only in America does it have other meanings.

I’m hoping for a more Western European system with capitalism regulated to insure those with no or little capital enjoy the fruits of the system.

That is Social Democracy. Which is what I think most DU members actually believe in.

[johnp3907]

24. So am I.

[Aristus]

25. I'm a Democratic Socialist voting for Biden.

You should probably take your low post count and your attempts to divide us somewhere else...

[Celerity]

43. +100000

[struggle4progress]

31. meh

[Happy Hoosier]

32. 1) I do not care about the term socialist within the party....

... our party can accommodate socialists, as long as they realize they are not the majority and we are not going to fully embrace Socilaism.

2) The pressure on Biden is coming strongly from the far left of our party, who apparently do not care that Biden has the strong support of the majority of the party.

The Tara Reade accusations are bullshit and they know it, but since Bernie could not win at the ballot box, they are trying to find some other path.

3) ANY candidate we nominate is going to be the target of shitty, false attacks like these Reade fabrications.

[Paladin]

34. NYT doing its best to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory for Democrats.

Thanks for nothing, NYT.

[RandiFan1290]

37. Welcome Back to DU

Last edited Thu May 7, 2020, 08:08 AM - Edit history (1)

trashed thread


Buh bye

[DeterDeter]

38. Elizabeth Bruenig

Last edited Mon May 4, 2020, 02:33 PM - Edit history (1)

is one of the strangest hires that the NYT has made recently, which I feel like was part of their point. She has declared in past tweets that she "is not a democrat and hates democrats", and referenced Biden not being able to be elected as dog catcher. Her opinion does not matter because it is a transparent agenda-get Bernie to be the nominee. But all of her opinions are strange, so they are of no relevance to me.

Now, Lyz Lenz just wrote an op ed in the Washington Post calling for Biden to be "replaced at the convention", and this is just getting to be so transparently odious. This is someone whose preferred candidate did not get the nomination, so they're throwing a bomb in the guise of support for survivors. Do these people realize how much DAMAGE they are doing to the movement???? I'm so disgusted with the white privilege of it all. And again, it's all so transparent and phony. These op eds get reprinted in local papers all around the county, and people will read the headline and get a different impression from it than what is apparent from the facts that are unfolding about this accusation.

[Gothmog]

40. Bernie supporters are using a rape allegation to try and circumvent democracy

Link to tweet

[Proud Liberal Dem]

45. It doesn't really matter that she is a Socialist

but she is still wrong (and surely has an agenda)

[EndlessWire]

50. Just want to say

that I want to keep Biden because he terrifies Trump.

Bernie wasn't really different this last time. A likable guy who never did explain how he planned to provide all those benefits except for increased taxes. I think at one point he wanted to take back taxes from the millionaires, but everyone does.

I'm all in for Biden even though he isn't my first choice. Hope he picks a good VP candidate and we kick Trump's ass. This thing about the socialism is what Trump was hoping he could use against Bernie if he got the nomination. He is twisting it a bit for a different circumstance, but Bernie is not the nominee, Biden will be, and Biden is not a socialist.

Bernie's people have revealed themselves to be a bit...hey, you know. Rowdy. And, saying that they want Biden to step away just so they can have Bernie is silly. We need to support Biden all the way so we can dump Trump, and not do what Trump approves of: fighting amongst ourselves.

These arguments are interesting, but they're so yesterday. Biden is not a socialist. He doesn't need to be. We have an effing dictator in power, and the desire to see a different economic system pales in comparison to what we have to do. Stick together.

[VarryOn]

53. Never heard of this person Bruenig....

With this little sample of her writing, I'm apparently not missing anything. I never understand why some writers feel the need to be distinctive with their goof-ball opinions.

[Hortensis]

55. Not exactly a commitment to rescuing our nation from a RW

authoritarian kleptocracy. But then, just as in the 1930s, the only hope for socialists is societal collapse. We know most of the LW extremists strongly committed to making it happen are only a little heel-turn shift from embracing RW-style extremism themselves. After all, none of them get what they want when the people have their say, and none of them can impose and hang onto their gains without getting very...firm with hundreds of millions.

She's 28, which figures. I was guessing, though, that she didn't have children yet, which tends to impose some of the caution and worries of parenthood, and turned out to be wrong. She has two and just hope they didn't inherit her wiring.