After watching 60 minutes last night all I can say is this.

[shockey80]

The government better start sending more relief checks to the American people. There are millions of Americans who's jobs, businesses are not coming back for a long time, maybe never.

They talked to a women who had a catering service. She was doing well until the virus hit. Her business is not coming back any time soon. She had to let her employees go. There is a giant snowball effect taking place. What is happening to that women is happening millions of times across the country.

They also talked about the rural hospitals in Texas and across the country. They are going out of business.

We are heading for a great depression. It will not hit everyone, but it will hit millions of Americans.

[Wounded Bear]

1. They're waiting until more people get evicted and can't get the checks...

[Hermit-The-Prog]

47. That makes it a buyer's market for the filthy rich, therefore a GOP dream come true.

[stopbush]

2. Yep. The Rs like Yertle and Graham think they've already done too much

while the truth is they have done very little to help the average Joe.

[wnylib]

37. Herbert Hoover took the same attitude.

Consequently, we had uninterrupted Democratic leadership for 20 years and sweeping changes.

R's drag the country down and it takes Dems to pull it together again.

[mahina]

49. We don't have newspapers like we used to have

And the media is so concentrated in ownership, so many fox watchers are brainwashed.

But yeah, when the people they are hustling figure out they are being used, it’s up.

[live love laugh]

48. And average Joe is brainwashed and agrees

that the government is making people lazy and they don’t want handouts.

[Wellstone ruled]

3. As various Governmental

agencies start their cut backs next month,it is only going to accelerate unemployment as Social and Economic Agencies slow down or eliminate Services.

The true Domino Effect is weeks away.

Always remember what the CEO of a Major Auto Company said when he announced lay offs in the late Eighties,"today I have to lay off my best customers",think about it.

We have laid off to many best customers before this Pandemic Hit,and these best customers are tapped out.

[CrispyQ]

54. That's what happens in an economic system that replaces living wages with easy credit.

I read an interesting commentary that Americans are trinket rich but equity poor. We have electronics, beautifully furnished houses, and nice cars, but we have no equity in our homes, and we carry a pile of credit card debt.

The other thing the right was successful at was making Americans resentful of paying taxes and believing that if you just get a tax cut, you'll be ahead. Most Americas would do much better if their tax rate stayed the same but they got a wage increase. Our side seriously dropped the ball on marketing. I don't understand why we don't have a marketing department and why we continue to let the right dominate the narrative.

[Wellstone ruled]

60. Chicago School of Economics

theory. Art Lafer ,Kudlow,and Friedman.

[JmAln]

4. Nope

Trump wants to cut the payroll tax. Screw the unemployed. Screw the poor. He wants more cut taxes that benefit high income people.

And to gut social security while he's at it. These are always the goals of trump and the repukes.

[dixiegrrrrl]

43. Soc. Sec./Medicare is funded mostly by payroll taxes.

He knows what he is doing and his accessories know how to do it.

[Grasswire2]

5. step back and look

Everything that he has done and CAN do leads to the disintegration of America.

He was installed to destroy this country.

Bannon flat out told us the goal.

[uponit7771]

11. +1, Hitler told Germany his goal too and people didn't take him literally

[notdarkyet]

55. He hates America, hates us. So why does he want to be president again? To continue his destruction.

[Native]

63. He wants to get reelected so as to run out the clock on the statute of limitations

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trump-2020-win-could-run-out-clock-on-obstruction

[ashredux]

6. The GOP should read some history...this ain't gonna end well for them

[yaesu]

7. It will be worse than the last great depression. nt

[kskiska]

8. Trump is the new Herbert Hoover.

[uponit7771]

13. +1, My understanding is HH didn't want to get involved with anything related to Great Depression

... and by the time he changed his mind it was too late.

Trump is like that with testing putting the aquisition of materials off on states for testing, that's stupid ... everyone knows we need a federated central supply for testing for any country to fight off something like this.

[Grins]

16. Trump is no Hoover!

What Hoover did in post-WWI Europe made him a man for the ages. Fed millions of Europeans.

I think Coolidge made him Sec. of Commerce where he was HATED - by Republicans. Who wanted him GONE!

Flood of 1927 hit. Fed. Government under Coolidge responded like Trump - BADLY! But the news of the disaster could not be contained. So Coolidge put Hoover in charge. Because (a) he could do the job, and (b) it would get him out of Washington!!!

He worked miracles. And got the press that helped make him president.

His problem? He believed the Republican fantasies on economics and money.

It’s too bad he is not also remembered for what he did in 1918-1918, and 1927-1928.

[shockey80]

30. I am trying to remember a quote from a veteran about the difference between Hoover and FDR.

He said something like this. Hoover sent the military (to deal with homeless, vets) FDR sent his wife (with coffee).

[kskiska]

40. True. Look up "Hooverville."

[alphafemale]

52. And Eleanor did not wear a raincoat that said, "I Don't Care. Do You?" nt

[NonPC]

62. True

Nor was Eleanor a former sex worker, either....

[dixiegrrrrl]

44. John Barry wrote an excellent book, Rising Tide, about the Flood

and how effective Hoover was in dealing with the catastrophe, which is why I was a bit perplexed over his actions in the Depression.

[ChazInAz]

56. If I recall correctly.

Wasn't Hoover an engineer in private life? Accustomed to solving the complex, nuts and bolts problems, but not really good with the human side of things or abstracts like economics.

[dixiegrrrrl]

65. I think so.

I remember being surprised by his skills in dealing with the flood issues.

Also in finding that attempts to control the river result in more flooding.

[Grins]

69. Yes!! THAT book! "Rising Tide"

That was the book that made me reconsider Hoover! And see “the other side” of him, a side I never knew because the depression stories about him overwhelmed everything else.

Note: I didn’t want to read it, but it was given to me when I needed to read something on the beach. Could not put it down! For you history buffs out there...!

[dixiegrrrrl]

70. I love "social histories"

Like Barry's book. So much to learn about the context of an issue, of what people did and thought at the time, etc.

He also wrote the definitive book on The Great Influenza.

[Crunchy Frog]

67. Thank you. He may have been the wrong person for the presidency at the time,

but he was definitely no Trump. He didn't come from money; I've been inside the house where he was born, and it was one room the size of a smallish bedroom.

He worked his ass off and spent huge amounts of his own money on famine relief, possibly saving millions of lives.

He even got attacked by the redbaiters of his time for doing famine relief in post revolutionary Russia.

I went to school a few miles away from his birthplace, and it bothers me when people make this kind of inapt comparison.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

9. It would've been easier if we had...

...a guaranteed minimum income in this country.

Even during periods without a pandemic, it would give employees more freedom to pursue work that brings them greater satisfaction. If it’s a hard job that most people don’t want to do, then guess what? They’ll have to pay better to attract employees.

It’s something that many Republicans and businesses would ABHORE, of course. An insecure populace, desperate to just survive, is good for business.

(Lots of edits. The weird auto-correct on this phone sucks.)

[Laelth]

45. +1 n/t

-Laelth

[bucolic_frolic]

10. Republicans told us we'd all be cowering in our homes because ... wait for it ...

Obama was coming to steal our guns.

Well we're all cowering in our homes broke and fearful because Trump's incompetence is coming to steal our lives and our livelihoods.

No it's not coming back. People are relearning a simpler life of home cooking, family, safety. This pandemic will reshuffle priorities.

I read parts of Barbara Tuchman's A Distant Mirror, a chronicle of the century surrounding the Black Death. Towns were wiped out, superstitions begun, flagellates traveled from town to town to dramatize their perception of physical penance for the pandemic. The point being corona virus will change a lot of things. More work at home, fewer miles, less shopping, less income.

I advise anyone, get what you need if you can, stock up on non-grocery consumables and spare parts (filters, seals). You may need one here or there.

[Johnyawl]

12. If trump gets a second term...

...we'll be a third world country by the end of it.

[leftieNanner]

17. I have tried to wrap my head around this possibility

And I just can't go there. This last 3+ years have been an agony. The concept of another four (or more!) is inconceivable to me. I truly do not know what I would do if he were to prevail in November.

[Lonestarblue]

53. I feel the same.

The thought that keeps me going is that we have an election in six months. If, God forbid, Trump somehow wins that election (and the Senate keeps its majority), I don’t know that I can stand to watch the destruction that Trump and McConnell and Barr will wreak on this country.

My first thought is to stay and fight, but in a continuing epidemic, which is likely, those of us who are vulnerable may be locked away at home. We’ve seen how effective the protesters have been with their public demands to reopen government no matter the costs. The media covers public protests; it does not cover private, solitary protests or written protests. The Women’s March on Washington motivated a lot of women to run for office, helping us take control of the US House. But how do we achieve results like that in the middle of an epidemic?

[Jspur]

20. I have felt for a while that we are already a third

world country. I was born in this country but my parents are from India. I have been to India a few times in my life. One thing that stands out in third world countries is how there is little to no middle class. For example in India you are either rich or poor. There is no middle ground in most cases.

In America for the last 10-12 years I have felt that has been the case at least among my generation which is the Millennials. When the Boomers are no longer around that's when it's going to be obvious America is a third world country.

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. Only the rich will survive. It's going to get real ugly.

[sdfernando]

27. by the end of it?

so many places are already there in this country. If that bloated orange gas bag cheats his way to another term, I don't think it will take 6-months.

[Jspur]

33. Agreed.

Like I said in my previous post this country has been third world for a while in my eyes. What's at risk if Trump wins is this country could have a Soviet Union like collapse. That's what I believe will happen if he gets a second term.

[Solomon]

35. I have been thinking the same thing for a while now.

A soviet union kind of breakup.

[wnylib]

39. We already are well on the way to

being 3rd world. If that happens, expect civil unrest, protests that turn into riots, and maybe all out civil war. Too bad that it's the Trumpists who are armed.

[Pause]

14. Black Death

The Black Death circled the globe about three times IICC, and eventually became airborne.
The death's at that time created the first middle class. Labor became more valuable as it became more scarce.
How many people will have to die this time for Labor to become valuable again?
Who is going to invent and/or invest in the jobs needed to achieve the continuance of humanity?








Personally I think the lowly pot plant can save the planet.

[OMGWTF]

23. I don't think of "God's Flowers" as lowly, but I agree with you that hemp WILL save the planet.

You can eat it, drink it, wear it, write on it; it makes plastic, rope, fuel, body lotion, and a million other things. Hemp is nature's most efficient means of turning sunlight into cellulose. In 1941 Henry Ford built a car from hemp that ran on hemp and was practically indestructible -- https://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/02/25/henry-ford-hemp-plastic-car-stronger/

[robbob]

64. OMGWTF indeed!

Thanks for that; first time I hear about it...

[burrowowl]

68. Yes it will help alot

[wnylib]

41. There were 2 strains of bubonic plague.

One was airborne; one was not. They coexisted. Animals got it, too, particularly sheep.

Several waves of the Plague swept through Europe. The first was in 1348. Waves of it continued into the late 1500's and early 1600's during the time of Henry VIII, his daughter, Elizabeth I, and Shakespeare.

There were well off merchants before the Plague whose incomes made them aristocrats. There were also less wealthy merchants and craftsmen who could be called middle class. The incomes of peasants increased and their lives improved due to the shortage of .peasants as general labor employees. Several rural peasants on manors fled to cities for work and learned trades, which improved their lives considerably.

Middle classes grew in numbers and power after the first wave of the Plague. Cities grew and more of them became independent of nobility control.

[safeinOhio]

15. I will not call it a depression until

bankers are flying out windows like researchers are in Russia.

[Jspur]

22. Bankers will not be jumping out the window

in this depression. In many ways this depression will be worse than the first because the rich are much more cruel than the ones that were around the '30s and 40s. They also control the government so I look for Banker's wealth to be protected along with the rest of the 1 percent.

[KPN]

18. And the asshole in the WH wants to blame China for it all --

even to the point of being willing to risk a major economic if not armed conflict with China in order to divert all responsibility away from himself. The height of incompetency has been reached it seems.

Ya know, the longer and deeper this goes, I am more and more convinced that it’s either him or us. Someone will have to go; someone has to go. So which is it — all of us or him?!

[MissB]

19. Oh yeah.

So far, I’m in that new class of workers called “Remote”. The Essential, Unpaid and Forgotten workers are just screwed in this economy. Heck, I may well be screwed by the end of the year. Not like I’m basking in the glory of oodles of $.

I keep carving out sections of the yard to develop for food production, with an eye to the more challenging sections like the forested center of our upper driveway.

Long term, I’ll produce quite a bit of food on this half acre: I’m even willing to dip into raising rabbits soonish.

If I get a rooster, then you know it’s bad.

[Solomon]

36. Lol. If you got neighbors you won't be having a rooster.

I guarantee it!

[MissB]

38. Luckily I live in an unincorporated part of my county

I could have goats if I wanted. Or a rooster.

But, I like my neighbors.

[druidity33]

50. Stick with hens...

avoid the rooster. No matter what they say, your neighbors will HATE you if you get a rooster. But consider getting a duck or two for looking after the coop. Ducks also will give you eggs... but they're weirdly swampy. Not to my taste, but maybe you'd like them. Goats are fantastic daredevils. They will eat and climb ANYTHING. Their poop is also excellent for gardens...

Good luck!

[Hulk]

21. Maybe this is why gun sales have been so strong recently

These are not good times.... and I think they're going to get a little worse yet.

[the_sly_pig]

25. The fragility of the global economy...

When wealth and competition are valued over humanity. There is no reason people should have to work so hard for so little.

No one should have to worry about health, education or safety. It is the stupid and the greedy that have ruined this world.

[IronLionZion]

28. Sectors that depend on large events will be hit harder than others

since social distance rules would be in place for some time even as some other sectors open up again.

The rural hospitals closing should get more attention than it does. Especially from a political party who claims to support the neglected people of rural America while demonizing the urban sinners. People need hospitals and won't have to time to drive great distances to get emergency care. The longer it takes to get to a hospital, the higher the risk the person might die on the way.

There's been a lot written about how this virus will hurt rural America harder for several reasons, including less access to health care providers.

[Hestia]

66. Hospital closings have been happening for quite awhile. What was DeLay's friend's name from Tenn

who runs/owns some "healthcare" corp? Bill something? Corp's like his have been buying rural hospitals left and right since ACA was enacted and then closed them all. So, for at least 6 years, people have had to travel several hours for healthcare or do without. It's just more noticeable now.
/
/
DH & I were talking last night about going back to work. Well, not him, he is an essential utility worker and will never get the time off. In fact, no one has. Who wants to go back to work in order to destroy the ecology again? It's the one thing no one can sneer at ever again -- humans do make an impact on where we live. Now, if we can keep the yahoos from killing everything in order to eat. The Depression was the build up of state & national parks and hunting laws. The rich said the poor living in the woods was destroying their view. I kid you not. We still have CCC lodges and cabins here.
/
/
When we get back in charge, we ought to do like FDR did. I've read it takes 400 years for a person to spend a billion dollars, even with all the bells and whistles. First - close all transactions leaving the US. No offshoring of any type. The tax the frig on anything over $500 million. Jr & Junior-ette can still inherit some funds and we take back everything else. If it wasn't for 43s TARP, they would have all the funds. It's ours and we want it back. We might throw them a bone if they voluntarily bring the funds back but don't count on keeping it.

Close each and every loophole. Each and every law from here on out states that if the law doesn't implicitly say YOU CAN, you can't. That was whining we heard about the corporations hoovering up the PPA this time around. "There's nothing in the law that states that we can't get money too." Demanding the money back would bring in trillions. Pay off all consumer debt, take credit back to where it used to be - sitting down with a banker and justifying the loan. Or save up the money for what you need/want. 90 Days Same as Cash.

There was an article yesterday that stated that credit card use is almost nil and everyone is using their debit cards. I'm sure it's Visa & Mastercard screaming about getting back to work too. They certainly do not want us to pay off everything at once. They might actually have to work for a living. Also read where most of the jobs created since the early 2000s was busy work type of jobs, which paid enough to get a credit card. We'll have to re-think what is work too.

Break up the banks and kill Glass-Stegall Act.

It can be done, we don't have to continue to give our souls and a pound of flesh in order to live. This is the end of that line. Just takes intestinal fortitude. This is where being a boomer/gen x - I have no problem saying fuck you to anyone's face when they try to equivocate and bring up family values, socialism, etc Those days are long gone too.

Old school worked then and it can work again. We do not have to go back to the last 40 years has been. It's killed us as a country but we can rise as better people from the ashes. We don't have to burn everything down to the ground. We just need to keep the libraries open and dust off some old books. The answers are there. We just have to look for them.

[RhodeIslandOne]

29. Even a solid small business in this country teeters on the brink at all times.

Of course, big business.....not so much.

[Yavin4]

31. The Republicans don't care. They don't work for us. They work for their donors.

And their donors are doing just fine.

[Roc2020]

32. to boot Covid almost took out Leslie Stahl

very sobering 60 minutes episode. I can't help to think most Americans still isn't getting just how destructive this pandemic will be for America. and what will happen when that reality truly hits.

[gratuitous]

34. We can spend $2 billion a day on "defense"

But we can't give our own citizens bridge funding to weather this crisis. Priorities.

[BadGimp]

42. Welcome to The Big Quickening fellow DUers

[Pluvious]

46. A very fine post, thank you

You might edit the misspelling of whose (not who's) to
be kind to our easily triggered English teachers here

[dhol82]

51. Thank you. I restrained myself.

[c-rational]

57. I also watched this segment of 60 Minutes, and after reading your post, I found myself

Last edited Tue May 5, 2020, 03:01 PM - Edit history (1)

both wanting to recommend this post and at the same time afraid to admit the truth of it. Truth won out.

[shockey80]

61. Thanks, the truth we are living is flat out scary.

[Dopers_Greed]

58. You know it's bad, when we get to the point where...

People are starting to lose jobs that should theoretically be unaffected by the virus.

We all knew that service industry, entertainment, and travel would be hit hard. But I'm seeing people on social media posting about big staffing cuts at their companies. These are jobs that could easily be done from home.

[Warpy]

59. Of course we are, it was inevitable the day Dopey rammed through

his 20 trillion dollar tax cuts to his billionaire cronies and their favorite corporations. It put a hole in the treasury that only rescinding them and clawing back will heal, while there has been no move at all to increase a minimum wage that no one can live on, although many people are forced to try. That hole means cutting government services down to nothing, although the billionaires will continue to mortgage the whole country in order to keep a bloated military going.

Now this "relief" scam wherein a few individuals got checks but the bulk of the boodle went to the usual suspects, including his real estate baron buddies. It's Hoover, all over again, only Hoover was decent, just wrong and too wedded to Republican dogma to realize it.

We're moving from interesting times into desperate times. I just hope it's enough to bust the billionaires back to being mere mortals and unable to buy a whole government.