General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan We Repair the Damage, Imagine a Way to Revive America?
Last edited Mon May 4, 2020, 03:22 PM - Edit history (1)
What makes me ask "Now what?" comes from yet another history that we seem to repeat. Thing is, we seem to only be able to understand how to go forward by learning -- over, and over -- the lessons of the past. Over and over, by seeing what applies to today differently.
From "How Do You Know If Youre Living Through the Death of an Empire?"
https://www.motherjones.com/media/2020/03/how-do-you-know-if-youre-living-through-the-death-of-an-empire/
.
Historians will look back at some enormous disaster, either ongoing now or in the decades or centuries to come, and say that it was just the icing on the cake. The foundation had already been laid long before then,
in the text of legislation nobody bothered reading,
in local elections nobody was following,
in speeches nobody thought were important enough to comment on,
in a thousand tiny disasters that amounted to a thousand little cuts on the body politic.
It took a long time, decades, for the true reality of the change to hit the Romans whose writings have survived to the present day. Aristocratic Roman officials in Italy maintained the same kind of administrative structure their fathers and grandfathers had, writing the same kinds of administrative letters for Ostrogothic kings of Italy that they had for emperors beforehand. The pull of the past is strong. The mental frameworks through which we understand the world are durable, far more so than its actual fabric. The new falls into the old, square pegs into round holes no matter how poor the fit, simply because the round holes are what we have available.
We dont have to wait decades for all this to sink in. The nature of the problem and its scale are clear now, right now, on the cusp of the disaster. Maybe those future historians will look back at this as a crisis weathered, an opportunity to fix what ails us before the tipping point has truly been reached. We can see those thousand cuts now, in all their varied depth and location. Perhaps its not yet too late to stanch the bleeding.
If this history of our forebear empire is anything to go by, now what?
Should we let our future randomly happen while we stay busy earning a living & raising a new generation, voting? Or can we do those things while building a new future at the same time?
Are there lessons to have learned that can help us envision it?
Lessons to help us plan it?
Who can be involved in imagining and/or planning any future envisioning?
Should we imagine roles we could make for that future?
Would these roles help or limit our imaginations?
Does Earth and climate change frame our imagining?
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)ancianita
(36,053 posts)'Yes we can' is true. But what can we, besides the usual political action. While we wait to do that.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)ancianita
(36,053 posts)Rhiannon12866
(205,320 posts)That's the best way to start.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)an interesting comment two or three weeks ago on either CNN or MSNBC. He said what was happening during the widespread lockdown was proof that we could change almost everything about the way we live "on a dime" if we had to. He was really talking about global warming, not the coronavirus. I thought it was an interesting, if simplistic, comment, because in this case people are thinking about "a time" in the future when we can go back to doing what we always did. But in another sense he's right. Many of us are learning that we don't need half of the stuff we thought we did, and don't need to "do" many of the things we thought we needed to "do."
On a more materialistic point, it's interesting to watch the price of oil drop, and the consequences of that. There are so many possibilities here. It's already affected car sales. With oil this low, and demand so anemic, it's hard not to wonder what is keeping Russia from completely failing.
Not to overstate it, but Russia's interference in the world order is a big reason nations are competing instead of cooperating with each other, IMO. (And then there's Trump, but he'll be gone soon, hopefully.) But Russia is not the only reason. We are creatures that seem to like to belong to groups that come into conflict with each other, and that's a problem for a positive future vision. But maybe it can be overcome through trauma and having a singular goal and not much left to lose. (That sounds more negative than I intend.)
I've been reading books about Putin's Russia, and how not being able to tell the difference between truth and lies, fantasy from reality has left much of the Russian population too exhausted and demoralized to care, let alone fight. I'm a little worried that could happen here.
Your post is deep and deserves better reflections than those I've offered.
ancianita
(36,053 posts)and see our pandemic point as a great point to shift direction, even with all the obstructions big fossil will apply to "guide" us back to it.
I've only started to consider what's been offered. Possibly big tech has its visions of the future -- hydrogen energy for trucking, apps for contact tracing, longevity research, open source medical cures, AI sitting on global business boards, Electronic currency as distributed breaking up of banks.
I still want to imagine beyond tech, and that tech can't be the only future we imagine.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)People tend to feel better and regain their sense of purpose and sense of themselves when they do good for others. Maybe that applies to nations too. When we once again become the America that helps other nations, takes strong moral stands on important issues and leads the way, maybe that could do wonders for our sense of ourselves and get us back on track.
ancianita
(36,053 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)ancianita
(36,053 posts)and group starts are probably advantaged by the stay-at-home situation so people can get time to actually think the future through better.
Rather than start with "focus of the discussions is on inequality, corruption, oligarchy and understanding authoritarianism which goes over well-trodden paths, I prefer what Cuomo calls the "Lessons Learned" approach.
We can list the worst of what's to get fixed, because we've stared at it for so long.
But the next level is to say what we learned to do and not do in imagining a different future.
From the Independent, I like the cited professor's fault line defining of what needs fixing. I just wouldn't deal with them in the order he lists in an almost implied priority of attention. For his solutions to work, the law should particularly coordinate with the job fault line to help strengthen worker pay and security while regulating industry's growth in directions good for more than just Wall St.stockholders.
I see Warren an Inslee as invaluable in all this.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Everything in every link that comes after the Question Mark is superfluous tracking information to tell the website you're visiting where you came from.
Says "I came from Facebook"
FYI to everyone who posts here.
ancianita
(36,053 posts)Although MJ can make $$ from FB ad buy.
Is there a plus/minus in making the preference that helps/hurts Mother Jones?
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)people arrive via FB than actually do. FB and MJ (and possibly Google Analytics too) track these inflated numbers. FB may charge them more and/or encourage them to advertise more on FB than is warranted and/or MJ may decide to do that on their own.
It's no advantage to MJ that I'm aware of, someone else may know of something I don't, however.
Also we're making FB look more powerful than it already does
ancianita
(36,053 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)People post a Google search link loaded with juicy data encoded. Then Google knows that anybody clicking on that link is connected and forms a network with the original searcher.
Google already gets enough info. No need to hand it to Google and Facebook and many others sites. They are all interconnected and share data on people. If you read the fine print in user agreements it says they share with "joint business partners" or some such language. But all they have to do to have such a business relationship is to agree to share data about people.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)I rather wish the DU software would simply strip the post parameters out of links that are posted on the site, it's really not rocket science to do.
Some links may break as a result but that usually would mean they were a crappy link to use in the first place.
ancianita
(36,053 posts)First, we need to agree on a list of lessons we've learned, arranged from most to least important, citing sources, and citing groups working on similar or 'adjacent' lessons.
So what are the lessons. It's good to be a broad and as specific as possible.
Second, we need to agree on a list of what needs fixing.
It could be based on the lessons list;
and/or based on our common sense,
or the obvious,
or some long neglected elephant in the room -- and the list needn't start with just Washington. What I've learned is that if we start there, we tend to sit back, as in the past, and wait for them to do the fixing after next January. We should have learned that we're shortchanged with that approach.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Quit listening to the greediest motherfuckers on the planet for what to do.
ancianita
(36,053 posts)Any names to start with (outside of politics, which we already know)?