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Fri May 8, 2020, 06:14 PM

Another POV on the Ahmaud Arbery Killing: From a candidate for a GA Sheriff

This FB post if from James Herndon who is running for Sheriff in Cobb County (which is just north of Atlanta).

He grew up in South Georgia and, together with his law enforcement background, he adds some unique perspective to the analysis.

I know some conservatives will dismiss him as merely pandering for votes, but Cobb County is majority white and only 25% Black.

I especially appreciate his analysis of the issue of citizen's arrest and how to charge these killers.

https://www.facebook.com/Herndonforsheriff/posts/236960570979119?__tn__=K-R

I know most people running for office will not dare touch on the subject of Ahmaud Arbery being shot to death in Brunswick, GA. As many of you know, I am not like most candidates.

With that, let's address this head on. You may agree with what I have to say, you may not. But you will at least know where I stand and why.

I have watched the video of Mr. Arbery being shot to death probably 20 times now. I have listened closely. I have watched parts of it frame by frame. I have listened to the 911 calls. I have researched the background of Mr. Arbery (to defend the further assassination of his character) I have researched Georgia law. I bring this from the perspective of a man wanting to be your next sheriff, a man with years of experience in CSI and actually personally arresting dozens of men for murder.

What we have in this case is almost identical to the shooting of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman in Florida. In this case we have two men in Glynn County, Georgia attempting to intervene as if they are law enforcement when they are not. In both cases such a low level event should have been handled by law enforcement.

Not idiots with firearms.

In both cases I believe the armed men were the determining and driving factor in the deaths of the two men. In both cases I believe these men wanted to escalate the situations so the law would "allow" them to use deadly force. Both were escalated to the point of firearms being discharged by the armed men, not the victims.

As I watched this I noticed some things that will likely enrage people more once I explain it.

You see, I am from South Georgia myself. I recognized something in the video many people likely will not. When you see a truck parked in the middle of the road with an armed man standing on top of his tool box or in the bed of the truck armed with a gun, it indicates to me, that he is hunting an animal that is running. It is a common technique used to hunt running game in the Georgia flatwoods. It is actually unlawful to even hunt animals in this manner.

Deer hunters in southern Georgia often use dogs to chase deer through the forest until they pop out onto a road, exhausted with limited physical ability and clouded mental ability as they are run to exhaustion before the hunter kills the deer with his gun. The hunter stands on the truck tool box or in the truck bed to obtain a commanding view of the area to easily spot his prey and direct other shooters where the deer is and the optimal time to shoot.

This is what pushed me to seeing this as the hunting of a man and not any form of self defence or lawful act. It is disgusting in a visceral manner I can not put into words. When I saw the man on the truck and the other man with a shotgun I knew what was in store for Ahmaud. This was not something he could survive.

I know this will enrage many readers for various reasons. But to deal with such an issue means we must deal with the ugly, nasty things human being are capable of doing head on.

Here we have two men, just like in the Martin shooting in Florida, who called 911 first and still chose to hunt their prey down, Mr. Ahmaud Arbery, a man. They did not see him as their fellow man. They saw him as something to hunt down using tactics they used to hunt wild game in the south Georgia flatwoods. In both cases we are talking about misdemeanors. In this case we are talking about the offense of Criminal Trespass - a very low level misdemeanor. It is so low level that 99% of the time at most - a warning is given by police. Your kid can get this for throwing an egg at a house, that's the type of crime this is. In this case a person allegedly walked through a yard of a building under construction. That's it. Thats what we have here, if anything. We likely have two jackasses that think every black man looks alike.

The two perpetrators are claiming they were making a citizen's arrest. Under GA law, OCGA 17-4-60 it states "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion".

After listening to the 911 call and reading the police report it is clear no crime was committed in their presence and they had no right to run this man down like an animal they were hunting. The defense of a citizen's arrest is not a valid one under Georgia law in my view. (Police report is here: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6915-arbery-shooting/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1 ) You will note in the report Ahmaud Arbery is the victim and the other idiots are the suspects, at least that's how the responding officer saw it.

In the report, the shooter tells the officers that arrived on scene that Ahmaud did try to run away from them. That he actually went in the opposite direction trying to get away but they continued to pursue him trying to find the right angle to cut off his path of escape. These were not cops hunting down an armed fleeing danger to society. These were two idiots chasing a man they alleged to tresspass by walking onto propety they didn't even own.

Being the hunters I believe they are, they stated they decided to cut him off on another street to confront him as their experience as hunters allowed them to calculate his path in his attempted escape. As Ahmaud attempted to run around the truck the shooter gets out of the vehicle immediately armed with a shot gun. I believe the very first shot hit Ahmaud in the right side of his chest.

He is then in a fight for his life. You can't out run a shotgun. I honestly have no idea how he stayed on his feet. I have never seen anyone survive a shotgun blast to the chest. It is disarm or die for Ahmaud at this point. The only option is to disarm your attacker. In this case he was already fatally wounded in my opinion. He likely had numerous sucking chest wounds, massive blood loss and the exertion to defend his life caused him to lose his life even faster. He grapples for the gun with the shooter, delivering several punches as the shooter fires at least two more times. Aumaud disengages turns, steps, collapses and dies. No aid was given by the shooters as they likely knew a shotgun blast to the chest would be 100% fatal.

I often explain to people that just because something is legal doesn't make it right. Just because you can rarely means you should. I have watched many shootings, many from law enforcement. Most are justified. Some are NOT. You see as a cop or any other person, you can in fact provoke others to violence or cause them to play into situations where you can legally kill another human being "justifiably". We referred to these people as "shit stirrers". These are the type of people that could disrupt and escalate almost any situation to violence if they wanted. They want physical violence and set up situations so they can lawfully use it. These people very much exist in all walks of life. It is foul and it is disgusting. These people are monsters. I despise these types of people. Many people think there are no such thing as monsters. There are monsters. They are very real. Only human beings are monsters. We are the only species on the planet that will hurt one another for pleasure as sick and twisted as that sounds.

To be clear, when you hunt a person down, crime committed or not (especially a non violent alleged crime), you confront them with a firearm when you have no lawful right to do so, you trap them, block their path of escape then shoot and kill them when you provoked the situation to a violent confrontation...well, I believe you need to go to jail.

With all of that said these guys could very well walk if the prosecutor purposefully indicts them on charges that are too aggressive. Again, some of you are like wtf is he talking about?

I will explain.

In the Zimmerman case, the prosecutors purposefully over charged him with murder. With the facts given in that case I knew immediately that a jury could never find him guilty for murder, the facts didn't match a premeditated act as they could not prove Zimmerman set out to kill Martin before the confontation. Nor could they prove his intent. Confront, fight, pretend to be a cop, but not kill. Zimmerman did in fact cause the deadly situation that he started then used a firearm to kill. See, Martin also confronted a man with a gun and found himself fighting for his life before he was shot at close quarters. The jury was left without options as they did not have any other charges they could choose from as the prosecution only gave them one option.

In Glynn county Georgia, I am hoping a grand jury is presented with the following charges: Felony Murder under the right circumstances but this is very dependent on what is secretly presented to the grand jury that we can never hear. But at the very least Manslaughter, Aggravated Assault, False Imprisonment, possession of a fire arm during the commission of a crime, terroristic threats and acts and the traffic offenses. Why? A life sentence for murder in Georgia is currently 33 years before parole is considered. These charges I have listed will carry over 60 years that must be served before parole can even be considered (you currently must serve 90% of any crime of violence). See, you have to know how the legal system actually works to make it work for the people.

These men have no right to confront another person, provoke the situation into a deadly encounter, then use deadly force to end a situation they started and caused in the middle of a city street. That is not the way the law is intended to be enforced. You have no right to shoot a man in a mere fist fight or wrestling match. You have no right to kill a man for walking through a yard that doesn't even belong to you. They presented the guns which caused this situation to turn deadly. They in turn should be held to account for their actions before a jury.

Right, wrong or otherwise, this is my opinion and where I stand. I think you need to know where I stand on such issues and why. I am not one to shy away from tough topics and felt I should address this head on.

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply Another POV on the Ahmaud Arbery Killing: From a candidate for a GA Sheriff (Original post)
aikoaiko May 2020 OP
handmade34 May 2020 #1
aikoaiko May 2020 #2
soldierant May 2020 #14
Alex4Martinez May 2020 #3
aikoaiko May 2020 #4
Alex4Martinez May 2020 #8
sheshe2 May 2020 #5
DENVERPOPS May 2020 #37
Hermit-The-Prog May 2020 #6
peggysue2 May 2020 #7
Arthur_Frain May 2020 #33
Hoyt May 2020 #9
Pacifist Patriot May 2020 #26
niyad May 2020 #10
crickets May 2020 #11
mcar May 2020 #12
IronLionZion May 2020 #13
Ford_Prefect May 2020 #15
PatrickforO May 2020 #24
warmfeet May 2020 #16
BlancheSplanchnik May 2020 #17
mountain grammy May 2020 #18
Haggis for Breakfast May 2020 #19
uponit7771 May 2020 #20
TxDemChem May 2020 #21
Cha May 2020 #22
PatrickforO May 2020 #23
Progressive Jones May 2020 #25
Martin Eden May 2020 #27
demigoddess May 2020 #36
brer cat May 2020 #28
Hstch05 May 2020 #29
marieo1 May 2020 #30
bonniebgood May 2020 #31
c-rational May 2020 #32
dameatball May 2020 #34
H2O Man May 2020 #35
aikoaiko May 2020 #38
moondust May 2020 #39
LittleGirl May 2020 #40
aikoaiko May 2020 #41

Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 06:24 PM

1. wow

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #1)

Fri May 8, 2020, 06:26 PM

2. Right? Plain spoken, knowledgeable, and on point.


We need more leaders within GA talking like this.


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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #2)

Fri May 8, 2020, 07:25 PM

14. And not just n GA. n/t

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 06:26 PM

3. Thanks. Here's a link to the original police report, link in post is broken.

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Response to Alex4Martinez (Reply #3)

Fri May 8, 2020, 06:30 PM

4. Thank you for presenting the correct workng link.


I'll see if I can copy and paste it in.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #4)

Fri May 8, 2020, 06:46 PM

8. It worked! Good job, K/R!

And, of course, this is a sad story but one that's generating much needed attention and in terms of justice, may have a better outcome than the dozens of beatings and murders that go unnoticed.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 06:34 PM

5. That was a very difficult read.

Heartbreaking.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #5)

Sat May 9, 2020, 12:47 PM

37. No worse

than the un-armed blacks just trying to walk over the bridge, away from Katrina, that were gunned down by the police.

This shit has to stop, not be encouraged and endorsed by the President of the United States, his RepuliCON politicians across the United States, and his tens of millions Trumphumpers........

Once again, the violence against all people of color is sickening and despicable.......

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 06:41 PM

6. Well reasoned, well presented, well worth the time to read the whole thing.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 06:43 PM

7. Bravo!

This is exactly the way I would expect an individual to sound if he/she were running for sheriff: knowledgeable of the law, capable of clear communication to the public, committed to justice for all and refusing to be a political weasel.

If I lived in Glynn County GA, I know how I would cast my vote.

Btw, it's a shame a 'bravo' is earned for an OP like this one because this statement of 'where I stand' should be the stance of everyone interested in law enforcement. Sadly, that's not always the case in situations like this one.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #7)

Sat May 9, 2020, 11:16 AM

33. I immediately thought "I want this person elected........to anything".

provided there’s no horrible skeletons in his closet, I crave someone with an adult worldview.

We’ve reached a point in the world where I profusely thank someone who is simply “competent”, because the rest of the time I have to put up with clowns who can’t tell shit from shinola.

Not quite sure how we got here.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 06:46 PM

9. Used to live in Cobb County. Would definitely vote for Herndon over the "law and order"

racists who usually run in that area.

Pulling for Rep. Lucy McBath too.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #9)

Sat May 9, 2020, 06:37 AM

26. Same here

Don't miss Cobb, but would vote for him gladly if I still lived there.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 06:56 PM

10. Heartsick KNR. This explanation makes the murder even more notifying.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 07:08 PM

11. Good for Herndon for addressing this head on.

His insights are powerful and on point. He seems like a genuinely good man who would do a good job for Cobb County. I hope he wins.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 07:23 PM

12. My kid lives in Cobb County

I'm going to send this to him and urge him to support this candidate.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 07:24 PM

13. None of us would know about this February event without the video

so there must be some other incidents of hunting someone down like an animal for running while black that wasn't captured on video. It must have happened often enough for these 2 assholes to believe it was OK. "it is clear no crime was committed in their presence"

Assumptions are not enough. A burglar can't carry much while running and can't get very far on foot. Running while black doesn't mean someone is a criminal. These things should be left to law enforcement and due process. And police shouldn't be using these tactics either.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 07:37 PM

15. It is fascinating to apply the same point by point analysis to Trump and his manipulations

of fact and criminal fantasy.

76,000+ cases of Manslaughter or Negligent Homicide ought to do it.

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Response to Ford_Prefect (Reply #15)

Fri May 8, 2020, 11:30 PM

24. Now you're talking.

28% of the total deaths in the whole world. 79K now, and each one is a single count.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 07:41 PM

16. This behavior is not just tolerated, but celebrated

in many areas of this country.

This may not be your perception of the USA, but it is the USA.

Perception and reality are seldom in lockstep.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 07:50 PM

17. Wow, GA definitely needs this guy.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 08:53 PM

18. Amazing.. the truth in all it's ugliness.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 08:56 PM

19. Thank you, aikoaiko, for this post.

I was traumatized by the murder of Corey Jones (in Florida) by a Palm Beach Gardens police officer, Nouman Raja in October 2015. Jones car had broken down on the interstate and he was waiting for motor vehicle assistance at the time of the killing.

In that case, the lies began immediately, cover-up at all costs to protect the blue line. Raja changed his story constantly. Only one problem. Raja didn't know that Jones was ON THE PHONE with a dispatcher at the time. His lawyers obfuscated again and again, requested delay after delay as their failed defense tactics were over turned, one after another.

It took too long, but Nouman Raja is now in prison where he belongs.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 09:09 PM

20. omg, ... "the shooter tells the officers... that Ahmaud did try to run away from them"

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 09:17 PM

21. I really appreciate his comments

I lived in Cobb County, graduated from South Cobb HS in 200, and found the environment to be not too bad for this black girl. But I was made aware of certain incidents that some of my peers and their families had encountered in CC. I sincerely hope the voters elect him.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 10:47 PM

22. Brilliant from

James Herndon

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 11:27 PM

23. Thank you for posting this.

I've bookmarked because it really helped me understand.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2020, 11:58 PM

25. K & R

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Sat May 9, 2020, 07:03 AM

27. These hunter killers must be brought to justice

Failure to convict and imprison will give license to other deplorables to kill.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #27)

Sat May 9, 2020, 12:44 PM

36. my thought exactly. There have been too many incidents where

they just seem to be hunting black people, like animals. I don't want those people to get off easy. Life sentence in my opinion, is appropriate.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Sat May 9, 2020, 09:33 AM

28. K&R

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Sat May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM

29. K&R

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Sat May 9, 2020, 10:20 AM

30. Sick monsters

I am just heartsick from this........yes, we do have human monsters in this world.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Sat May 9, 2020, 10:45 AM

31. This is what I had trouble with, the shooters said he was 'running'. the mother and

others say he was 'jogging'. what gives? The video clearing shows he was jogging. IMHO. So I looked it up.

If both feet are off the ground you're running!
"defined in athletics terms as a gait in which at regular points during the running cycle both feet are off the ground. This is in contrast to walking, where one foot is always in contact with the ground.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Sat May 9, 2020, 11:08 AM

32. Wow, great read and analysis. He would have my vote in a heartbeat. Ahmaud Arbrery may you

you have peace and your family justice. Thankfully their was a video.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Sat May 9, 2020, 11:18 AM

34. Nice definition of "shit stirrers." These are exactly the people bearing arms at various protests

and marches. People who can be egged on and who will ultimately react when the circumstances allow it.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Sat May 9, 2020, 11:50 AM

35. Recommended.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Sat May 9, 2020, 12:49 PM

38. Gregory and Travis McMichael were arrested and charged with murder and aggravated assault


https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/07/us/ahmaud-arbery-arrests-mcmichaels/index.html

It sounds like the charges are in line with the Herndon's recommendations.

Once you do away with the BS citizens arrest defense, they committed the offense of aggravated assault "with a deadly weapon or with any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury."

That's the felony that makes the felony murder charge work.


O.C.G.A. 16-5-21 (2010)
16-5-21. Aggravated assault

(a) A person commits the offense of aggravated assault when he or she assaults:

(1) With intent to murder, to rape, or to rob;

(2) With a deadly weapon or with any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury; or

(3) A person or persons without legal justification by discharging a firearm from within a motor vehicle toward a person or persons.

(b) Except as provided in subsections (c) through (k) of this Code section, a person convicted of the offense of aggravated assault shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than 20 years.

(c) A person who knowingly commits the offense of aggravated assault upon a peace officer while the peace officer is engaged in, or on account of the performance of, his or her official duties shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 20 years.

(d) Any person who commits the offense of aggravated assault against a person who is 65 years of age or older shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment for not less than three nor more than 20 years.

(e) (1) As used in this subsection, the term "correctional officer" shall include superintendents, wardens, deputy wardens, guards, and correctional officers of state, county, and municipal penal institutions who are certified by the Georgia Peace Officer Standards and Training Council pursuant to Chapter 8 of Title 35 and employees of the Department of Juvenile Justice who are known to be employees of the department or who have given reasonable identification of their employment. The term "correctional officer" shall also include county jail officers who are certified or registered by the Georgia Peace Officer Standards and Training Council pursuant to Chapter 8 of Title 35.

(2) A person who knowingly commits the offense of aggravated assault upon a correctional officer while the correctional officer is engaged in, or on account of the performance of, his or her official duties shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 20 years.

(f) Any person who commits the offense of aggravated assault in a public transit vehicle or station shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment for not less than three nor more than 20 years. For purposes of this Code section, "public transit vehicle" has the same meaning as in subsection (c) of Code Section 16-5-20.

(g) Any person who commits the offense of aggravated assault upon a person in the course of violating Code Section 16-8-2 where the property that was the subject of the theft was a vehicle engaged in commercial transportation of cargo or any appurtenance thereto, including without limitation any such trailer, semitrailer, container, or other associated equipment, or the cargo being transported therein or thereon, shall upon conviction be punished by imprisonment for not less than five years nor more than 20 years, a fine not less than $50,000.00 nor more than $200,000.00, or both such fine and imprisonment. For purposes of this subsection, the term "vehicle" includes without limitation any railcar.

(h) A person convicted of an offense described in paragraph (3) of subsection (a) of this Code section shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 20 years.

(i) Any person who commits the offense of aggravated assault involving the use of a firearm upon a student or teacher or other school personnel within a school safety zone as defined in paragraph (1) of subsection (a) of Code Section 16-11-127.1 shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 20 years.

(j) If the offense of aggravated assault is committed between past or present spouses, persons who are parents of the same child, parents and children, stepparents and stepchildren, foster parents and foster children, or other persons excluding siblings living or formerly living in the same household, the defendant shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than three nor more than 20 years.

(k) Any person who commits the offense of aggravated assault with intent to rape against a child under the age of 14 years shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than 25 nor more than 50 years. Any person convicted under this subsection shall, in addition, be subject to the sentencing and punishment provisions of Code Section 17-10-6.2.

(l) A person who knowingly commits the offense of aggravated assault upon an officer of the court while such officer is engaged in, or on account of the performance of, his or her official duties shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 20 years. As used in this subsection, the term "officer of the court" means a judge, attorney, clerk of court, deputy clerk of court, court reporter, court interpreter or probation officer.




O.C.G.A. 16-5-1 (2010)
16-5-1. Murder; felony murder



(a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.

(b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.

(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

(d) A person convicted of the offense of murder shall be punished by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, or by imprisonment for life.


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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Sat May 9, 2020, 01:08 PM

39. K/R

It's possible there is more to the story. Maybe one of these guys had a previous run-in with Arbery and stalked him until they could get revenge.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Sat May 9, 2020, 04:13 PM

40. Amazing read! Thanks for sharing.

He’s so spot on. That was a hunt/lynching. I watched the video a couple of times.
That man didn’t have a prayer. RIP.

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Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Sun May 10, 2020, 12:18 PM

41. One more kick for the Sunday crowd.



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