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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnyone on the left who argued no difference between GOP and Democrats
are now thoroughly discredited. These folks should be ignored because they have no credibility. This stupid idea has caused great harm to this country and enabled the right wing to muddy the waters and unleash devastation.
wryter2000
(46,023 posts)So did the response to Katrina
Response to wryter2000 (Reply #1)
rampartc This message was self-deleted by its author.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)Response to empedocles (Reply #3)
rampartc This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)you would consider Democrats far more reliable in that respect also. In fact, I feel sure of it, and you don't even need to listen to our party leaders go on, and on, and on about it in congress and interviews. Though you could. Right now even.
Short form, though, Democrats authorized the force we needed to keep Saddam Hussein from breaking out of the box we'd kept him in for a decade. We did it reluctantly, CONDITIONALLY, with serious concerns -- to KEEP Hussein from precipitating a second Iraq war, and from resuming genocide of the peoples in 2/3 of Iraq. The Republicans lied to America, betrayed their duty and trust, and justified our concerns by starting a U.S. war to get access to Iraq's oil.
What's not to understand about right and wrong?
The OP is correct. Sure, no decisions in imperfect situations can be perfect, but Republicans have become SO extremely "imperfect" that the differences are as clear as that, and always were.
Aristus
(66,294 posts)candidate elected back in 2000.
When the Naderites started bleating that there was no difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush, I knew they were full of shit, and I stopped thinking of the quest as quixotic, and more as paralyzingly stupid.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)I have even referred to Bill Clinton as the greatest Republican president since Eisenhower, but over the last twenty years the Republican party has morphed into something more sinister and almost unrecognizable while the Democratic party has re-embraced its liberal roots. There is a very big difference now between the Democratic and Republican parties.
-Laelth
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,396 posts)Clinton had to work with a hostile and reactionary Republican Congress for 6 years of his Presidency. I can't and won't defend everything he signed on to but I understand that he had to govern a bit more conservatively than he probably would have if he had Democrats been in charge in Congress for more than 2 years during his Presidency.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)But Clinton destroyed AFDC. He didnt have to. He signed the Telecommunications Act of 1996. He didnt have to. He signed the bill that repealed Glass-Steagal. He didnt have to. Time after time Clinton triangulated and signed on to Republican legislation that was opposed by the left. As I said then ... the greatest Republican President since Eisenhower.
Now, the Democratic Party is almost universally liberal. I celebrate this change.
-Laelth
aggiesal
(8,907 posts)to abandon donations from Democratic stalwarts like unions, instead
going after corporate dollars like the Republicans.
dalton99a
(81,406 posts)according to the president's advice
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,396 posts)then you need to re-evaluate things.
Not to say that things would be perfect or a progressive utopia or that we would be 100% COVID-free but if you think she would have handled things as badly, incompetently, crookedly as Trump has, then you're part of the problem.
Progressive dog
(6,899 posts)even in a democracy, where compromise is always necessary.
demosincebirth
(12,530 posts)thucythucy
(8,039 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)the people they've been voting for for decades, were like Republicans? No one!
It's those Yeats wrote about, the foolish "best (who) lack all commitment" and the "worst (who) are full of passionate intensity." They must not be able to understand that most Democrats are Democrats because they believe in, in their cores, the liberal principles that formed our republic and dominate the Democratic Party that protects it to this day, or they couldn't be so easily fooled. Why?
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
kimbutgar
(21,060 posts)Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)They were thoroughly discredited the moment they said it.
marieo1
(1,402 posts)I have been a life long democrat and have watched Reps my whole life. I have seen them make decisions just for the extremely wealthy and nothing for the rest of us. They(reps) are never satisfied and selfish, they just want more and more. And...........you don't see any of them donating money or aid to help the people that are unemployed right now and struggling either with lack of money or with the virus. If anything, they insisted they go back to work and risk catching this virus. The extremely rich should be donating to nurses, Drs. and other critical care staff.These people are risking their lives for us.
plimsoll
(1,668 posts)Made it clear that the the actual hardcore ideological left would rather lose than compromise in any way shape or form. By many accounts the Soviet backed contingents were almost as effective in achieving Falangist aims as the Falangists themselves.
ananda
(28,837 posts)The difference has always been clear. Period.
I should add. That does not mean that I never
criticize a Dem.
Of course I do. I can even criticize Biden for
being a bit too moderate and corporate.
However, he and every other Dem running against
a Reep has my vote.
Period.
Ananda......Exactly the way I feel - I will put my hopes in Dems because I have zero hope in Reps. Oh, sure, I know Dems aren't perfect and they make mistakes but in my mind they are the most decent of the 2.
Any Dem is better than any Reep in my view.
aggiesal
(8,907 posts)What's the difference between Democrats and Republicans?
I've never forgotten his response.
Democrats take care of people, Republicans take care of the wealthy and corporations.
If you ever look at Republican legislation, it is almost always done to benefit those with money, PERIOD!
There are only 3 pieces of legislation that I can think of that benefited society:
1) Eisenhower: The Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956 (i.e. The Interstate Highway Act)
2) Nixon: Environment Protection Agency (EPA), which he didn't want. But if he had vetoed it, there was enough votes to overturn the veto, that he was advised to sign it, and own it like he actually wanted it.
3) Bush I: Americans with Disabilities Act
There might be more, but I can't think of any other than these 3 that actually benefited society.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,165 posts)There are way more nuances. Are there those, a small minority, that are more militant and to them ANY politician that is okay with capitalism is lumped on one side of the equation? Sure. But I would also add to that that those folks probably wouldn't be voting Democratic anyways so not really a concern.
But I find its too easy to pick out the most extreme left minority to profile "the left" in the party that always has and always will vote Democratic. This is "muddying" the waters.
If you were honest, you would understand that it is impossible to divide people's politics down the middle with one side all believing the same exact things, and the other side the same only with the opposite beliefs, on every single issue
For instance ALL (for the sake of argument) Democrats believe in things like increasing minimum wage, a universal medical insurance system of some form or another, union rights, equality in pay for women, to name just a few. In fact there are way more individual issues the liberal wing of the party and the conservative wing of the party agree on than disagree.
But yes, there are a handful of issues that these two wings disagree on. AOC saying she and Joe would probably be in different parties in any other country is true. But AOC also endorsed Joe. As has Sanders. It doesn't mean they agree with all of his past votes or his perceived corporate leaning and military intervention policies today. And they would argue that those issues are fewer but more important in the grand scheme of things than social policies. Election finance reform, back to a more progressive taxation towards the top earners, stricter Wall Street regulations and enforcement on white collar criminals. Now if those more to the left watch influential Democrats consistently vote with Republicans on those issues, which they see as crucial, can you not see how some would say there is little difference ON THOSE PARTICULAR ISSUES? Which if they weight those issues as the most important, it is troubling to them. You will never convince them that those issues are not "credible"
But most, like AOC, understand that even IF we still think Biden leans too far right for their liking on those issues, beggars can't choosers. Most are pragmatic enough (and have had a lot of practice) to understand there are bigger fish to fry at the moment, and will support Joe Biden and the Democratic party because of those still very important social policies, and at least they have a voice at the table, whereas if Democrats are not in power we just sit and watch it all go backwards making it even harder to come back to even the center at a later time.
Funny because I have had arguments (on another board) with those more left who swear they will not vote for him. And I try to show them how they should support Democratic nominee with that pragmatism in mind, and yes, some will never be convinced. But it does no good to paint the majority on the left side of the tent along with their underlining, long term economic/MIC goals, as now not "credible"
NoRoadUntravelled
(2,626 posts)If this were not true Kentucky and other poor states wouldn't have such a low standard of living while their elected officials in Congress continue to back efforts to take food away from their children.
Nitram
(22,768 posts)betsuni
(25,380 posts)What was the point?