Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

kentuck

(111,499 posts)
Tue May 12, 2020, 07:17 AM May 2020

The Supreme Court's Landmark Decision

Last edited Wed May 13, 2020, 07:20 AM - Edit history (1)

Or will they pass the hot potato?

The cases about Donald Trump's taxes and finances have finally made it to their door. Will they make a decision to protect our laws and our Constitution? Or will they fold to the partisan flames? The partisan divisions are deep and wide.

Will they be able to put aside their own partisan divisions and protect our People and our Constitution?

What will they choose?

(On edit) The Supreme Court will likely not rule on this case until this summer, if at all?

53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Supreme Court's Landmark Decision (Original Post) kentuck May 2020 OP
I don't remember the USSC specifically ruling against Trump. no_hypocrisy May 2020 #1
They haven't ruled yet. They are hearing arguments today I believe. Lochloosa May 2020 #4
I have very little faith in this Court protecting the People and the Constitution. katmondoo May 2020 #2
This Jamastiene May 2020 #8
Agreed. They will support trump one way or another. Nt lostnfound May 2020 #31
They had better malaise May 2020 #3
The conservatives will cravenly unite to make it 5-4 to protect Trump. SunSeeker May 2020 #5
Courts have been unpredictable at times in our history. kentuck May 2020 #6
There are no grounds for optimism here. SunSeeker May 2020 #19
If it gets too hot for them, I suppose they could send it back to the lower Courts? kentuck May 2020 #20
On what ground could they send the cases back to the lower courts? nt SunSeeker May 2020 #21
They have several options... 2naSalit May 2020 #25
I think this is the most likely outcome. Mike Niendorff May 2020 #34
THIS! BadGimp May 2020 #51
This is what they'll do. n/t CousinIT May 2020 #26
5-4 that we live in a dictatorship maxrandb May 2020 #7
It is a very important decision. kentuck May 2020 #9
More like the landmark decision of John Roberts DFW May 2020 #10
It would be nice to see Roberts stand up. It would be good for our country. However... kentuck May 2020 #11
I see Roberts playing ball, he is beyond terrified by the talk of packing the court Amishman May 2020 #13
If they can argue their way there, I'm sure they will try n/t DFW May 2020 #17
Agreed. If the Roberts Court rules for Trump, the world will see them as total toadies, but... Girard442 May 2020 #33
Roberts' legacy Freddie May 2020 #14
roberts was barely discernable at the impeachment trial rampartc May 2020 #16
He punted it because he could DFW May 2020 #18
Excellent analysis. The weight of history will be very harsh on these times. NNadir May 2020 #32
I don't see how they can side with Trump without overturning the Nixon tapes case and Vinca May 2020 #12
I think you are correct. kentuck May 2020 #15
Nixon was the last Republican president judged not to have been above the law. DFW May 2020 #23
+1 dalton99a May 2020 #29
see: Bush v Gore Mike Niendorff May 2020 #38
Very detailed article on today's SCOTUS - Trump - DeutscheBank Loans SmartVoter22 May 2020 #22
Thank you! Duppers May 2020 #49
This will either be a unanimous ruling or no ruling Buckeyeblue May 2020 #24
This will be the Trade-off... druidity33 May 2020 #27
What does it mean if they make no ruling? Will that be more months or years doc03 May 2020 #28
That is a good argument. kentuck May 2020 #30
NO WAY can they agree with tRUMP sooo they will bluestarone May 2020 #35
If they rule for tRump, the republic is dead Maeve May 2020 #36
+1000 Duppers May 2020 #50
The Court is no longer Supreme The Wizard May 2020 #37
They'll side with Trump bucolic_frolic May 2020 #39
His taxes and other investment matters would have come during his vetting Ford_Prefect May 2020 #43
The RW Russian Repug 5 chose long ago, money over country. lark May 2020 #40
Majority will choose Corporate. zentrum May 2020 #41
Didn't they fudge their decision in Bush vs Gore kskiska May 2020 #42
That was the most narrow Fig Leaf ever cited. It was the key to open the way to Trump. Ford_Prefect May 2020 #45
I will bet no records will be released before the election. Sneederbunk May 2020 #44
Bill Clinton & Paula Jones seems to be a precedent. CaptainTruth May 2020 #46
I give it 10 to 1 odds they favor continuing down the NoMoreRepugs May 2020 #47
They will dodge and delay and push it beyond the election. kairos12 May 2020 #48
We will need to rebuild a Supreme Court from this Suppine Court. Hermit-The-Prog May 2020 #52
5-4 incoming budkin May 2020 #53

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
8. This
Tue May 12, 2020, 07:28 AM
May 2020

The fix is in. Honestly, America's government, all three branches, are now openly hostile to the People and our Constitution.

kentuck

(111,499 posts)
6. Courts have been unpredictable at times in our history.
Tue May 12, 2020, 07:26 AM
May 2020

Let us hope these Justices are strong enough to stand up for our country and our Constitution, over the whims of any one person.

SunSeeker

(52,344 posts)
19. There are no grounds for optimism here.
Tue May 12, 2020, 08:03 AM
May 2020

SCOTUS should not have even taken up the cases. The law is clear and well-settled. There are no conflicting decisions among the Circuits that need to be resolved. SCOTUS should have denied review and let the appellate decisions against Trump stand and become final.

But no, they reached down and pulled these cases up for review. Worse, the conservatives appear to have conjured a ground for letting Trump avoid subpoenas: that it's a political question that can't be resolved by the judiciary.

The Supreme Court asked all parties to address whether the disputes were a “political question” beyond reach of the judiciary. All said last week that the court should reach the merits of the cases. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-trump-tax-returns-finances/2020/05/11/dd9bd598-92df-11ea-91d7-cf4423d47683_story.html

I predict SCOTUS will rule 5-4 that it's a political question, they will overrule the lower court rulings against Trump, and cynically say it is up to Congress, not courts, to enforce these subpoenas (through the Sargent-At-Arms, Impeachment, etc.), when they know damn well these enforcement mechanisms are ineffective against Trump.

kentuck

(111,499 posts)
20. If it gets too hot for them, I suppose they could send it back to the lower Courts?
Tue May 12, 2020, 08:06 AM
May 2020

Trump wants "his" Court to make a decision.

2naSalit

(88,800 posts)
25. They have several options...
Tue May 12, 2020, 08:19 AM
May 2020

One is to send it back to lower courts asking for a new approach to the claims as the argument is weak is one of them.

Glenn Kirschner explains it in this video:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017581677

Mike Niendorff

(3,485 posts)
34. I think this is the most likely outcome.
Tue May 12, 2020, 09:26 AM
May 2020

Followed by 4 additional Justices being appointed to the Court in 2021.

see: 28 USC 1.



MDN

maxrandb

(15,637 posts)
7. 5-4 that we live in a dictatorship
Tue May 12, 2020, 07:27 AM
May 2020

Retrumplicans have been working ruthlessly to this point for 80 years, while Democrats kevetched about not getting a pony.

Today's the payoff for their hard work, and Democrats "thoughtful reflection"..."yes, Donnie Shit for Brains is an unqualified, inhuman racist assclown supported by Nazis, but Hillary Clinton one time said something nice about Reagan, and I'd rather have a beer with Bernie

I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that our country will be dealt a death blow today.

Retrumplicans have spent decades constructing their deathstar, there's no Luke Skywalker coming to the rescue.

DFW

(55,186 posts)
10. More like the landmark decision of John Roberts
Tue May 12, 2020, 07:33 AM
May 2020

It's pretty much a given how the other 8 will decide. Thomas, Alito, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch will give Trump anything he wants. RBG, Breyer, Sotomayor and Kagan will say the opposite, that no one is above the law.

Roberts owes Bush, Cheney and Rove. He does not owe Trump.

Some Chief Justices don't care a bit about how history judges them. I think Roberts wavers about this, and cares more than Rehnquist ever did about his judicial legacy. Roberts knows how history will judge him if he votes with Trump on this one, and is probably weighing the impact of his two options on his record. His natural tendency is to give Republicans anything they want. The part of him that took an oath to uphold the law and interpret it to the best of his ability will side with the "no one is above the law" justices. The big question is which Roberts will win out--the Republican Justice, or merely typical Republican justice.

kentuck

(111,499 posts)
11. It would be nice to see Roberts stand up. It would be good for our country. However...
Tue May 12, 2020, 07:39 AM
May 2020

...the Court will probably kick the can on down the road and not open up any investigations before the election?

Amishman

(5,596 posts)
13. I see Roberts playing ball, he is beyond terrified by the talk of packing the court
Tue May 12, 2020, 07:44 AM
May 2020

I see him authoring the majority on a 5-4, strongly limited in scope and so specific as to be impossible to apply to other situations.

Girard442

(6,183 posts)
33. Agreed. If the Roberts Court rules for Trump, the world will see them as total toadies, but...
Tue May 12, 2020, 09:03 AM
May 2020

...if they rule against, he'll tell them to go pound sand and the illusion of the Court's power will be shattered. Got to get that can down the road, no matter how lame the argument.

Freddie

(9,362 posts)
14. Roberts' legacy
Tue May 12, 2020, 07:44 AM
May 2020

Will be elderly people with canes, wearing masks, standing in line for hours to vote in a pandemic.
I have absolutely no faith in him doing the right thing.

DFW

(55,186 posts)
18. He punted it because he could
Tue May 12, 2020, 08:03 AM
May 2020

At the trial, the outcome was never in doubt. Here, it rests on his shoulders.

NNadir

(33,678 posts)
32. Excellent analysis. The weight of history will be very harsh on these times.
Tue May 12, 2020, 09:01 AM
May 2020

Roberts can either be Justice Taney or Justice Warren in history.

Vinca

(50,462 posts)
12. I don't see how they can side with Trump without overturning the Nixon tapes case and
Tue May 12, 2020, 07:42 AM
May 2020

the Paula Jones case during Clinton. It's been long established that presidents are not above the law.

kentuck

(111,499 posts)
15. I think you are correct.
Tue May 12, 2020, 07:46 AM
May 2020

If they follow precedent.

Of course, the Trump lawyers could argue that the cases are not similar. I think that would be a stretch to persuade a majority?

DFW

(55,186 posts)
23. Nixon was the last Republican president judged not to have been above the law.
Tue May 12, 2020, 08:17 AM
May 2020

Reagan and Bush II never even got a slap on the wrist.

I have no doubt that Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh would have sided with Nixon on the tapes issue.

Mike Niendorff

(3,485 posts)
38. see: Bush v Gore
Tue May 12, 2020, 09:31 AM
May 2020

Honestly, that's really the only case that needs to be looked at here.

Judicial integrity died on 12/12/2000.

The lifeless corpse has been been rotting on the bench ever since.


MDN

SmartVoter22

(639 posts)
22. Very detailed article on today's SCOTUS - Trump - DeutscheBank Loans
Tue May 12, 2020, 08:17 AM
May 2020

Found a very detailed article in this case. It's worth a read for those really into this SCOTUS case. It's not all about Trump, it's about international money loans applied to the Patriot Act in 2011 that changed oversight . Congress is investigating Trump's overseas loans to update the laws It gets bizarre but shows clearly three areas that are of concern to everyone.

https://forensicnews.net/2020/05/08/what-congress-might-find-in-trumps-deutsche-bank-records/

You can listen to SCOtUS verbal arguments live 10am Eastern Time
https://www.scotusblog.com/

Buckeyeblue

(5,543 posts)
24. This will either be a unanimous ruling or no ruling
Tue May 12, 2020, 08:18 AM
May 2020

In other words, if the court cannot come together 9-0 (maybe even 8-1), they will kick it back to the lower court to reconsider based on some anomaly. In other words they will ensure no ruling until well after the elections.

It's a cowardly move but Roberts doesn't seem to be a model of courage.

druidity33

(6,484 posts)
27. This will be the Trade-off...
Tue May 12, 2020, 08:39 AM
May 2020

for voting to keep Obamacare...



edited to add i think Roberts will be the deciding vote

doc03

(35,771 posts)
28. What does it mean if they make no ruling? Will that be more months or years
Tue May 12, 2020, 08:53 AM
May 2020

of appeals or what. I don't get it you have judges that rule against the president it goes all the way
to the SCOTUS. I thought that is why we have the SCOTUS they have the last word. If that is what will happen
it goes back to lower courts and is held up for more months or years I have no doubt the SCOTUS will refuse to make a decision.

bluestarone

(17,574 posts)
35. NO WAY can they agree with tRUMP sooo they will
Tue May 12, 2020, 09:30 AM
May 2020

NOT DECIDE! they will; send it back for further review!!!!!

Maeve

(42,467 posts)
36. If they rule for tRump, the republic is dead
Tue May 12, 2020, 09:30 AM
May 2020

Sorry, but I can see no other conclusion. Only by declaring that no one is above the law can they save the American experiment.

The Wizard

(12,650 posts)
37. The Court is no longer Supreme
Tue May 12, 2020, 09:31 AM
May 2020

but rather mediocre. They will convolute the language and stretch definitions to fit the contorted and corrupt positions of "Dear Leader."

bucolic_frolic

(44,562 posts)
39. They'll side with Trump
Tue May 12, 2020, 09:37 AM
May 2020

IRS records are private papers between an individual and the government, and while releasing them is tradition, norm, and beneficial to society for elected politicians, they release them at their own discretion.

Did you really expect to see Roberts' tax returns? Or did we already? I have no idea.

Ford_Prefect

(8,097 posts)
43. His taxes and other investment matters would have come during his vetting
Tue May 12, 2020, 10:12 AM
May 2020

years ago. While they may not have been of public record they would have been seen by those involved in vetting him. I doubt he would have been nominated or approved without them, then.

Today? Who knows?

lark

(23,504 posts)
40. The RW Russian Repug 5 chose long ago, money over country.
Tue May 12, 2020, 09:37 AM
May 2020

They do not deviate from that and will ensure that nothing of drumpfs' comes out until after the election, if ever. They have already basically shredded the constitution and will continue that in their decision, basically coronating him dictator.

kskiska

(27,066 posts)
42. Didn't they fudge their decision in Bush vs Gore
Tue May 12, 2020, 09:58 AM
May 2020

by saying that it shouldn't be taken as a "precedent"?

CaptainTruth

(6,829 posts)
46. Bill Clinton & Paula Jones seems to be a precedent.
Tue May 12, 2020, 10:39 AM
May 2020

Clinton claimed immunity while in office from prosecution for things he did as a private citizen. SCOTUS said no, he didn't have that immunity.

I'm no expert, but that seems like the same kind of immunity Trump is claiming.

NoMoreRepugs

(9,795 posts)
47. I give it 10 to 1 odds they favor continuing down the
Tue May 12, 2020, 10:57 AM
May 2020

road of bending the Constitution in favor of a more ReichWing approach to governance. Money, corporate influence and homage to mega wealthy old white men at the center of everything.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The Supreme Court's Landm...