Interesting Jennifer Rubin piece about the future of Never Trumpers

[manhattan123]

The conservative WP columnist is done with the Republican party. She says it's not worth saving, even after Trump.

"There once was a friendly debate among those who used the NeverTrump moniker about whether the GOP could be “saved” or was worth “saving.” Early in the Trump presidency (if not before), I answered no; many who once spoke of reforming or reviving the party now have come around to the view it is hopeless."

(snip)

"Sadly, my feelings toward the spineless Republicans who blindly supported Trump, opposed impeachment, enabled his lies and attacks on institutions, and have not found the nerve — even in a pandemic — to take issue with his lies, impulsive reactions and dangerous preferences can be summed up in a single word: contempt."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/13/nevertrump-becomes-neverrepublican/

[UpInArms]

1. I will say that they can join the Democratic Party,

But ... they should not lead it ...

[OAITW r.2.0]

2. Agreed, they can take a seat at the back of the bus.

[MagickMuffin]

3. Back of the bus . . . back of the Big Tent

I'll welcome them but NOT their policies or their agendas.

NOPE, not a ONE.

They can join us with OUR terms, not theirs.

[Marie Marie]

21. Right, come on over but do not attempt to water down the issues important to us.

[Pepsidog]

4. I had another "C" word in mind, Corrupt.

[Brother Mythos]

5. If conservatism is so damn great, why come here?

[Yavin4]

6. I laugh at Niki Haley for thinking that she has a chance at the next Republican nomination for pres.

Phil Robertson from "Duck Dynasty" has a better chance than she does, and I'm not joking.

[SoonerPride]

7. They could nominate Kanye West

except they are too racist for that

[Yavin4]

8. From now on, only Trump clones have a real shot at it. Think Steve King of IA.

My money will be on him.

[SoonerPride]

10. He's not crazy enough

As much crazy as he is, he's not crazy enough.

They want to be entertained.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

14. I wonder if Obama's charisma backfired in the long run...

JFK had charisma. I don't think the guy in there now has it. He has the opposite of charisma. But he thinks he has charisma. Being insane though does make one hard to ignore.

[LastDemocratInSC]

24. Amsirahc?

[SleeplessinSoCal]

28. sey.

[jaxexpat]

32. Tcefrep.

[Grokenstein]

36. Republicans wouldn't know charisma if it

...politely declined their offers to urinate on them in exchange for money.

They think smarm is charisma and they adhere to the belief that smug, coldhearted abuse of power makes people swoon...which is true in far too many cases, but any sane creature would surely understand by now that it's neither charisma nor leadership.

[lillypaddle]

11. Or not that stupid

Are you saying every single Repub is racist? Remember, Nicole Wallace worked for "W" and there are many others. You don't have to embrace them but ffs, don't be so quick to hold your nose.

[SoonerPride]

12. I didn't say every R was racist. One just needs the racist vote to win the R nomination.

And that is fact.

[mac56]

13. Every Republican is not a racist

But most racists are Republicans.

[lillypaddle]

15. I agree with that

It's just that Rubin wrote an honest and thought provoking OP, stating among other things, that Dems have made it easy to support Biden and the Party during the upcoming election. Can't we just take that in and be thankful that there are Rs who are sane and sensible? Everyone is always in such a hurry to puff out their chests and beat it with their fists.

I repeat: We are going to need everyone's help to go forward. Let's not spit in their faces. What would Obama do?

[wryter2000]

34. What I find encouraging

She, and she suggests other Republicans, also reject the rest of the party. She doesn't argue that Trump is an anomaly and that the Republican party will be okay once Trump is gone.

[lillypaddle]

38. Yes! nt

[Merlot]

25. Most republican policies are racist, votong republican enables those policies

No getting around it, if you support racist policies you're a racist.

[lonely bird]

31. Nah, he's too busy

With his God-grifting gig.

[not fooled]

17. I hope you're right, but

it took only 8 years after the previous Worst President for another incompetent boob puke bumbler to get within stealing distance of the White House.

After those two, no puke should be president within our lifetimes. Or ever.

[jaxexpat]

33. That's what I thought after Nixon.

One should not count those chickens which may not hatch.

[FakeNoose]

43. After Nixon it only took 7 years to get to Reagan

What is f**king wrong with this f**king country?

[jaxexpat]

44. It's a subject discussed a lot over thee last few millenia......

I think it's probably just an overabundance of stupidity.

[lillypaddle]

9. Don't cut off your nose ...

to spite your face, as has been said. You don't have to agree with someone all of the time. We are going to need all the help we can muster to get this country back on track.

[oldsoftie]

23. some folks just dont get that. nt

[Blue_true]

16. I think their plan may be one of two possibilities.

The first possibility is they try to coleasce independents into a party, letting the Republican Party die a slow death.

The second possibility is they join up with us, with the goal of splitting the Democratic Party into two parties, once the Republican Party is officially dead.

I don't think either plan will work because neither address the main problem here in America, radical evangelicals that want to force the rest of society to live by codes that evangelicals set. If the problem of radical evangelicals is not dealt with, it has the potential to destroy the USA. While evangelicals deserve and should be full participants in American life, they must be brought back to respecting the divisions between church and public affairs (schools, governmental functions).

[lastlib]

18. I think you're on to a key notion here---

but I would broaden your argument to point out another problem set: the neo-nazi/klans/militia types who have their own far-out agenda they want to impose, notably second-amendment absolutism/white supremacist ideology. The current GOPee tolerance for that ilk has to end before any accommodation can be reached.

[ehrnst]

22. There are already those who are trying to split the Democratic Party into two parties or

dream of a hostile takeover and seizing the $$$$ and infrastructure that the Democratic Party has earned over decades.

Try as they might, they have not succeeded because they don't offer more than what the Democratic Party offers, have less influence and credibility, and don't have the power of numbers and track record to challenge the Dems. Also, they don't have much capacity to actually listen, rather than dictate a manifesto.

Some have learned the hard lessons about what it takes to enact progressive legislation, and have been Link to tweet
" target="_blank">crucified for it by those who think that working in the system to accomplish something real is corrupt.

[jaxexpat]

35. Radical evangelicals and the camo 'n ammo bunch are both products of an out-to-lunch.....

education ethic. A result of years of discounting upward socio-economic mobility. A refusal to make public schools work. An excuse to finance private schools with public funds. Pay for public schools by taxing churches and hand gun ammunition.

(tongue only slightly in cheek)

[Blue_true]

40. I don't know what the cause is.

Some people are just natural followers that have to belong. Have a con artist of a smooth talker or a devious minister come along, then those followers are believing nonsense and are, in some cases, willing to die for it.

The thing when faced with a wild eyed person who isn't afraid to die, the choice comes down to giving in or killing them. The Courts are so packed with like minded people for extremist, that the latter option is making more sense in some cases. Timothy McVeigh was not afraid to die, he was so deep in his belief world. The only reason that he left the scene of the bombing of the federal building, IMO, was to bomb more government facilities before being killed. The last two times that we have faced such people, the Bundy dad and his two sons, we gave in and tried to let the Courts resolve it, only to be waylaid by rightwing, libertarian leaning judges.

[jaxexpat]

41. appreciate the in-depth reply

I'm, as you seem to be as well, still unable to put my finger on a single issue that brought the nation to this point.
The logical answer then is that there is no single causative factor. The same genre of whackos screwing up now were already plentiful in 1789. (Thus we have the electoral college.)

I remember once suggesting to a coworker that maybe population density had something to do with social problems. He responded with his observation that since he'd seen a lot of open country out west, population density was not possibly a problem. In fact, it was obvious to him that there was "room for everybody". At that moment I knew with a certainty that this guy was impenetrably stupid. It certainly explained his quoting Limbaugh. Maybe that's the "single thing". By their sheer mass, the stupid people carry more influence than ever. The majority just wait in lines while the stupid color outside theirs. This car wreck is so hypnotizing that sane people drive off the cliff alongside the stupid just to witness their landing.

I emerged into the grownup, 18 yr old, world in 1970, at that time the US population had grown about 97% since 1920. It's grown about 63% more since 1970. About 221% from 1920 to 2020. That's a lot of stupid.

[Blue_true]

42. Overpopulation of people is a problem. Unfortunately, attempts to control it can and will likely

lead to eugenics, only the "worthy" being allowed to breed. So we are stuck with having each individual deciding their reproductive path. The only counter effort can be to get sex education into schools and insure that girls have excellent career opportunities, better educated women nominally tend to both chose better life partners and have fewer children.

[vlyons]

19. It really doesn't matter if an ex-Republican wants to join the Dems

I won't ever trust any Republican -- ex or otherwise.

[Mr. Ected]

20. The GOP should have exterminated the Tea Party vermin before they metastasized

Once they let that fascist group into the halls of Congress and gave them the time of day, they lost their party.

Good riddance. Apply Round-Up and start all over again....if the fascists in charge permit it.

[PJMcK]

26. Very god article, K&R

Thanks, manhattan123. Ms. Rubin has been leading the NeverTrump legion for the past several years and she makes excellent points in this column.

It's odd that there are people who were our enemies just a few (long) years ago. People like Steve Schmidt, Rick Wilson, Nicole Wallace and Jennifer Rubin for example, are now our compadres in the effort to rid ourselves of Trump. I expect the road will get rocky fairly quickly since there are fundamental differences in our respective philosophies of governance. Nonetheless, Trump must go and that is the only issue we're facing in the immediate future. Everything else will flow from that outcome.

The end of Ms. Rubin's column is interesting:

Finally, many people ask: Are you all big-"D" Democrats now? My answer is “it depends.” I am a Pat Moynihan Democrat, a Scoop Jackson Democrat, an Andrew Cuomo Democrat. I’m not a Bernie Sanders Democrat. So where does that leave me? Where I have been for just about four years: a center-right member of the “Resistance,” an advocate for good governance and internationalism (including free trade and robust legal immigration) and a passionate believer in the American creed. The best answer perhaps to the partisan affiliation question is that it is a time for creative policy and civility, so we will focus on that.

I can live with a Moynihan/Jackson/Cuomo Democrat. Welcome to the party, Ms. Rubin.

[JHB]

27. I think Rubin is mainly speaking for herself here.

Once there's a veneer of normalcy and "establishment" in a post-Trump GOP, most of them will be happy to return to their familiar digs.

And when they do so, the ones whose jobs involved "playing hardball," pushing policies, and running election campaigns will fall back into the same sort of tactics that they used to build what became Trump's base. Those are the tactics that work. Billionaires who want deregulation, tax cuts, and federal courts stacked in their favor will demand results.


If Rubin thinks the other Never-Trumpers will stay out in the wilderness with no home, then she's as imperceptive about this as she was about the trajectory of the GOP for basically her entire career. The GOP embraced "Trumpism" a long, long time before Trump.

Gingrich. Limbaugh. The Bush administration swaggering into office with open contempt for its predecessor, swatting away warnings about threats to the nation and throwing away what had been built to respond to those threats. FOX. Swiftboating. Teabaggers.

This is what the Reagan Revolution hath wrought. If it caught her by surprise... maybe she could go over her past work (especially in conservative bubble sinecures like the Standard) and write a book about everything she missed -- and who didn't miss it when it was happening.

[Martin Eden]

29. +1. GOP has been on the road to Trumpism for decades

The Republican Party has had to cultivate and manipulate their voting base through racist dog whistles, jingoism, religiosity, and lies because that is what's necessary to get people to vote against their own best interests.

Then Trump came along and beat the establishment GOP at their own game. His one true talent is immersing himself in the mindset and warped ideology of the voting base that was already waiting for a "populist" like him to come along and take the con job to the next level, raw and unfiltered.

Trump is criticized for spending so much time watching television, especially Fox News, but that really is the homework he does to hone his skills as president -- staying on top of the latest resentments and propaganda, then leading the narrative himself. He knows how to push the buttons of the GOP base. They derive great satisfaction from all his attacks and petty put-downs. The "stable genius" of this POtuS is in all the lies and rhetoric the rest of us see as stupidity and mental deterioration.

Trump is indeed appallingly ignorant and egregiously unqualified in terms of actual governance. His malignant narcissism is a mental disorder. He is a monster that walked into the laboratory of Doctor GOP Frankenstein, and was a perfect fit.

[zentrum]

30. *Criminal* Contempt. And

…..Treason.

[AtheistCrusader]

37. Either the Republican, or the Democratic party is going to fracture after the next election.

To the winner will go the spoils.

It's not just the Senate, White House, and thus Supreme Court on the table this year. It's the viability of entire parties.
We HAVE to win.

[JonLP24]

39. I don't care for Jennifer Rubin or Never Trumpers in general

In 2011, Rubin wrote a blog post suggesting that the 2011 Norway attacks were carried out by Islamic jihadists. Columnist James Fallows of The Atlantic criticized the piece as "rushed" and noted the subsequent discovery that the attack was carried out by Anders Behring Breivik, a native Norwegian who was not a Muslim.[24] Another Atlantic columnist, former Israeli soldier Jeffrey Goldberg, responded that the criticism was unwarranted, noting that other publications such as Wired and even The Atlantic itself had printed similar speculation; Goldberg concluded: "It is not perverse or absurd for normal people to think of al Qaeda when they hear of acts of mass terrorism. It is logical, in fact, to suspect al Qaeda."[25] In a follow-up column, Rubin acknowledged that early suspicions of a jihadist attack had proven to be mistaken.[26]

International Relations scholar Daniel W. Drezner has described her views on foreign policy as neoconservative.[27]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Rubin_(journalist)

She also criticized Obama for Islam related stuff. I have a low tolerance for Islamaphobes which is why I haven't watched Bill Maher in years.