Man Pointed Gun at Pregnant Smoker

[Liberal_in_LA]

Cops: Man Pointed Gun at Pregnant Smoker

(Newser) – Nothing says, "I care about your baby's health" like firearms. A Washington state man was arrested this week, after he allegedly pulled a gun on a smoking pregnant woman. Justin Dain Palmer was driving in his pickup truck when he saw the 28-year-old mom-to-be walking down the street and puffing away around noon on Wednesday, the Bellingham Herald reports. Police say he stopped and yelled out the window, "Who the heck smokes when they're pregnant?"

"I do," the woman replied. A testy exchange ensued, during which the woman alleges that Palmer pulled out a gun and pointed it at her. He eventually drove away without firing, however, and the woman called 911. When police caught up with Palmer, he admitted to confronting the woman, but denied brandishing the weapon. When police searched his truck, they found two Glock semiautomatic .45-caliber handguns, and booked him.


http://www.newser.com/story/154052/cops-man-pointed-gun-at-pregnant-smoker.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=united

[seabeyond]

1. "found two Glock semiautomatic ... and booked him." good. nt

[Scairp]

115. I am utterly dismayed

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SMOKING. Smoking was HIS excuse for pointing a gun at a person on the street, and it was just an excuse. He wasn't some do-gooder gone too far, he's a dangerous freak with guns driving around and pointing them at people for whatever reason. It is not about smoking in any way, form or fashion. Ahhhhh!!!!!

[MADem]

2. How did he "know" she was pregnant? People get in trouble making those kinds of assumptions.

Some fat people look pregnant. Some people can have a tumor or some other issue (swollen liver, for example) that makes them look pregnant.

I go by the "I'm not bringing it up unless you do" rule. Keeps me out of trouble!

[nichomachus]

12. When is it OK to ask a woman if she's pregnant?

[Gold Metal Flake]

39. Absolutely correct.

[MADem]

43. Perhaps when the baby is crowning?

That graphic is hilarious!!! Words to live by...

[Number_9]

59. I've always told my wife...

I don't ask a woman about her pregnancy unless I see a baby actively exiting the vehicle...

[RB TexLa]

63. Huh? Why can you not ask a woman about a medical condition?

[wickerwoman]

64. The same reason you can't ask anyone else about a medical condition unless they bring it up.

It's none of your business.

Also, if she's not pregnant, you just pointed out that she's fat.

[Cali_Democrat]

3. Gun nuts are exactly that

nuts.

[joeybee12]

4. Way too much stupid in one story...nt

[deaniac21]

119. You have the winner !

[HappyMe]

5. She's kind of doing the same

to the baby by smoking while pregnant.

This guy shouldn't be running around pointing guns at people.

[seabeyond]

7. no. she is not. nt

[Incitatus]

13. Correct. smoking while pregnant is worse

For the baby

[NCTraveler]

26. Not worse than what could have happened to the baby with the mother under...

this type of extreme stress.

[Marrah_G]

100. The mother smoking is not worse for the baby then the mother being shot

[Iris]

102. Not to mention that many doctors would say quitting old turkey may cause

more stress than cutting back. The man had no business getting into the woman's face simply because she was pregnant.

[liberalhistorian]

22. Um....yeah, she is.

Smoking while pregnant is absolutely horrendous for the baby, just as it's bad for the children of smokers. As an adult, she has the right to make the choice to fuck up her own health if she wants, but she has no right whatsoever to make that choice for the innocent baby.

I certainly don't agree with the man's methods or his ridiculous usage of a gun and he deserves to be arrested and prosecuted. But she isn't really much better, frankly, and is being terribly selfish and irresponsible.

[cynatnite]

28. It's a drug addiction. I don't see a reason to slam her like this. n/t

[liberalhistorian]

40. I'm an ex-smoker, believe me, I'm well

aware of just how powerful the addiction is. But you don't have the right to use that to harm your own child. You have the right to make your own decision, as an adult, regardless of the consequences to your health, but you do not have the right to make that decision for your child and to endanger his or her health.

[cynatnite]

47. Ex-smoker here, too. We're not all the same and for some even pregnancy isn't enough...

That's the disease of the addiction.

I smoked through 3 pregnancies. I knew it wasn't good, but the addiction was just too strong for me. I managed to quit over 5 years ago.

[roguevalley]

66. I am awaiting with some sense of dread fo

my niece to pop. She decided to smoke drink and drug because 'it makes the baby smaller and it doesn't hurt as much.'

She should be stung up. Anyone who smokes during pregnancy is practicing child abuse in my opinion and the statistics out there back it up. I would think this would be one thing about this all would agree about. What goes into a pg woman goes through the baby.

[d_r]

77. I can not beleive that she actually thought that

[alphafemale]

81. Sounds like you should put child protective services on speed dial.

Guaranteed she's going to at least neglect and emotionally abuse that child if not outright physically abuse it.

[Drahthaardogs]

44. What?

so if you are an addict any behavior you do is excusable because of your addiction? Not buying that for a second.

[cynatnite]

49. I never said that...

Addiction is still a disease and for some people it's overpowering. I'm not justifying it. I'm telling you how it is. The good old "will power" speech doesn't cut it with addicts.

I've come down hard on smokers in the past, but I know first hand of how big of a beast it is to overcome. I do think if I can quit, anyone can. But I also know that it's harder for some than it is for others.

[Drahthaardogs]

50. Yeah well I draw the line when you abuse your children

and smoking while pregnant is abuse. I do not know how you can complain about people "coming down on her". I would have no more sympathy for a heroin addict.

[cynatnite]

51. I smoked through 3 pregnancies knowing it wasn't good for the babies...

The addiction was too strong and I didn't know how to live without it. That's the case with a lot of addicts. It's not knowing how to live without it. You can't imagine life without it. That's how powerful it is.

I understand it. That's why I can complain about people coming down on her. Addiction is still a disease and your sentiment does nothing to help her or people like her.

[Drahthaardogs]

52. If I post what I really think it will get moderated.

All I can say is that not everyone believes addiction is a disease (only 20% of physicians share this belief). I guess I am not really interested in "helping" her, I am more interested in stopping her from hurting her baby.

[cynatnite]

53. If you want to stop her from hurting her baby, helping her is a good start...

I do think we can agree that she would have to want to be helped. She'd have to want to make an honest attempt at quitting. Sometimes people will just say no, they don't want to quit. I've seen that a lot in the medical field. That's not just the addiction talking either.

I also think it would help if there were more tools to help her quit such as access to free medication and support groups. I don't feel enough is done to give addicts of any stripe the tools they need.

[Drahthaardogs]

54. According to the article she seemed pretty proud of her smoking.

You know, intentions count.

[cynatnite]

55. Actually, interpretation counts in this instance. n/t

[Marrah_G]

107. Or perhaps she was standing up to a man in a car bullying her.

[Cerridwen]

69. That's an interesting...statistic you stated;

"not everyone believes addiction is a disease (only 20% of physicians share this belief).

Do you have a reliable link for that statistic about physicians' beliefs about medical conditions such as addiction? I can't seem to find it.

[Drahthaardogs]

78. Really? Look up disease theory of addiction, it is very controversial in the medical field

". A survey of physicians reported at that conference found that 80 percent of responding doctors perceived alcoholism as simply bad behavior"

Some links

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Controversies/Is-Alcoholism-a-Disease.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117682&page=1#.UFRkbEWe7Kc
http://www.soberforever.net/disease-theory-alcoholism.cfm

[Iris]

108. How about some scholarly sources?

Some studies?

[etherealtruth]

57. Just curious where you weigh in on choice?

Either its a woman's body and her choice ... or its not...?

[ecstatic]

72. I can't speak for the other poster, but

my take is that once a woman decides to go through with a pregnancy, there are certain responsibilities that are involved. Just as with any other commitment one might make.

A person who doesn't understand that would probably be better off ending the pregnancy.

It's nice that people survived drinking and smoking, but that doesn't make it right. We can't pick and choose which science we'll accept.

[etherealtruth]

86. Smoking and many other behaviors are bad for all

Smoking is harmful to all people. I believe, on a personal level, no one should smoke. i am not a fan of alcohol consumption, either.

I wish all people (including myself) made sound judgments ... they don't ... Women are not a class of people that surrender their autonomy based on their reproductive status.

An acquaintance is in the hospital (as I type) she and her baby are suffering dangerous and ill effects due to her obesity ... last I heard (yesterday afternoon) "they" were going to have to take the baby two months early (likely today) ... the consequences of her behavior (leading to morbid obesity) are presenting dire consequences for her and the baby. It is well known that an obese mother produces a high risk pregnancy .... would you stand by your statement "A person who doesn't understand that would probably be better off ending the pregnancy" ...?

at what point does a woman surrender her autonomy if she becomes pregnant?

I see these arguments validating the antichoicers arguments. If it is not her body and her choice ... then it is not.

[Drahthaardogs]

75. I am curious where you weigh in on global warming.

Either we accept science or we don't.

[etherealtruth]

87. What an odd and irrelevant response

... or did I misinterpret the response ... are you suggesting that pregnant women not engage in activities that increase carbon emmisions (further surrendering her autonomy)?

The pro-choice stance: Its her body her choice ... this is a "topic at hand" appropriate statement .... where do you weigh in on this?

[Drahthaardogs]

88. It's her choice to decide if she wants to CONTINUE the pregnancy

once she decides to do it, she has an obligation to the health and welfare of that child. If you are trying to tell me that a woman who plans on carrying a child to term can drink, do drugs, basically whatever and it is all okay because it is HER body, I don't have a whole lot to say to you.

[etherealtruth]

92. What should be the consequences for these women?

There have been cases where women have been incarcerated for the duration of their pregnancies ...good idea? What do we do with women that make poor choices? Do we create a second set of laws for women?

Please don't limit yourself to the things that come to YOUR mind as abhorrent ... what about obesity .... women that are anorexic .... women in "high risk" professions ... throw women in abusive relationships in (pregnancy is a very dangerous time for these women and their unborn children).

I am not a fan of smoking, drinking or drug use by people.

I am the mother of three. I have been granted a life that allowed me to make "wise and informed" decisions while pregnant. I am sure that by even your standards I made only "good" choices. For this I am grateful .... not sanctimonious or self righteous.

I prefer to continue to provide education and support to all ... thereby improving the ability of people 9including pregnant women) to make sound choices.

[Drahthaardogs]

95. Ah yes, now we are into THEORY

Let's throw logic out the window and play with THEORY. Our country does not work that way, and thank God we have a judicial system that actually looks at each case on its own merit.

[alphafemale]

83. If you make THE CHOICE to have a child you have a responsibility to the health of that child.

That's part of THE CHOICE.

It's not "ooooh I'm going to have something to play with and dress up in a few months and until then I'm going to PAAARTAAYYY!!

ummm...No.

Anything legal to prevent these women from that behavior is out of the question, of course.

Pulling a gun on this woman was wrong, of course.

But I have no problem at all with public shunning and shaming.

[etherealtruth]

89. Does this apply to all the bad choices a person can make

Up-thread I share the story of an acquaintance named Katie:

"An acquaintance is in the hospital (as I type) she and her baby are suffering dangerous and ill effects due to her obesity ... last I heard (yesterday afternoon) "they" were going to have to take the baby two months early (likely today) ... the consequences of her behavior (leading to morbid obesity) are presenting dire consequences for her and the baby. It is well known that an obese mother produces a high risk pregnancy " .... would you stand by your statement "But I have no problem at all with public shunning and shaming"

I prefer education and support.

The young woman I mention is a loving, reasonably intelligent, lovely young woman ... she also started her pregnancy at least 100 pounds over weight and gained 20-30 pounds during her 32 weeks of pregnancy. it really would have been been a wiser choice for her to have lost at least 100 pounds prior to becoming pregnant ... her obesity put her and her unborn child at great risk. The risk is immediate and severe (sadly at this moment very severe). The last damn thing i would do is shame her or someone like her.

I am the mother of three I did not engage in what are typically thought of as high risk behaviors while pregnant (i even gave up my true love: black coffee), I was not then and am not now obese ... I was fortunate to be able to make the choices I did. I am not shunning or shaming anyone, folk tend to make the best choices they are capable of ... i prefer to educate folk so they have the best info on which to make their choices.

To the argument at hand

It is either her body/ her choice or it is not.

If the argument is soley based on "smoking' ... I am out or the conversation. smoking is 'bad" for all people and I prefer not to enter in to 'smoking' threads.

[Drahthaardogs]

93. I don't agree with you

I don't see it as black and white, cut and dry. Sorry, I don't want to see abortions made illegal but I don't ever, and will never agree that as long as that fetus is in that woman's body, anything she chooses to do to it is okay. By your logic she could have that baby lobotomized in the womb because she felt like it and its all good.

I also do not believe that "People make the best choices they are capable of", I think, in general, people make the choice that offers the path of least resistance, but often, they are capable of much more.

[alphafemale]

96. Yeah.

This is a poster who would actually believe the mother has a right to abort 2 weeks before the child is to be born because other plans came up for that weekend.

This is the type of person whose thought processes give the people trying to take real choice away their power.

[etherealtruth]

97. LOL ... you appear to know me far better than those in my life

I am a poster that understands that women in the generation immediately preceding mine were forced to seek abortions using back alley abortionists, drugs (poisons) and "coat hangers" ... I understand that there are women seeking these same remedies. I am the kind of poster that understands that the same issues you bring up would be used to prosecute these women for murder.

I am the kind of poster whose children recognize the sacrifices i have made in life for them ... they are aware that have have and always will be my first priority (i am very lucky that they recognize and understand this).

I am the kind of poster that worked as an RN prior to their birth and was afforded the opportunity to stay at home and make them my sole focus after their birth. my nursing career (9hospice) allowed me to see all people as deeply flawed and frail ... but most, doing the best they can. I understand that everyone makes poor choices at some time ... I also have compassion when they are sometimes confronted with dire consequences.

I am the kind of poster that volunteers with homeless and indigent and understands that choices aren't as clear cut for some as they are for other's.

Most of all I am the kind of poster that is enraged that anyone would would read a post or thread about some jack ass threatening an other human being with a gun (because that human was pregnant and a smoker) and focus on the fact that the human (that happened to be pregnant) engaged in a legal behavior they disagreed with.

I am the kind of poster, that doesn't drink, smoke or "do" any recreational drugs ... I do love and am addicted to coffee (which I happened to give up each time I was pregnant) ... I am also a poster that understands that some folk are not so lucky!

On edit: I wonder why you chose to attack the character of someone you don't know. We all make assumptions about folk we interact with here. i certainly do the same. my assumption about you is that you care about the welfare of children but are not able or willing to follow the end result which would inevitably lead to the loss of a woman's right to control her own body ... if the fetus is a separate human, and the mother is responsible for the health and well being of this separate and distinct individual ... why isn't abortion murder.

[SOS]

71. Glad it wasn't considered abuse 55 years ago

Both my parents and my wife's parents smoked during pregnancy.
All four of them.
The notion that they "abused" us is sickening.
It is what it is.
So glad that we are now middle-aged, independent and without children, so we don't have
to participate in this twisted modern society.

[Drahthaardogs]

74. Give me a break.

55 years ago no one knew the consequences of smoking, now they do. Apples and oranges.

[Laurajr]

79. Cigarette companies knew the consequences

Of smoking and hid it...but that's a different issue. Obviously this girl was not that into being pregnant if she was she would have done anything to protect that baby. Quitting smoking takes desire and not too much more than that...I've quit so I do have some clue.

[Drahthaardogs]

82. I agree, if you plan on carrying a baby to term

You have a responsibility to attempt to take care of that baby, in the womb included. I wonder if the woman had anxiety problems if the posters here would advocate her taking Thalidomide?

[Marrah_G]

105. We should totally fill the jails with pregnant smokers.

After all, it's all about protecting the fetus. Who cares about the right of the woman to control her own body. In fact, we should jail all pregnant women until they give birth just to make sure they behave only in ways that don't harm the fetus.

it's a slippery fucking slope people.

Either you believe a woman has the right to control her own body, or you do not.

[Iris]

106. Many doctors encourage cutting back b/c quitting old turkey would cause more stress

to the mother and, as a result, more harm to the child.

[Marrah_G]

101. I have to ask, are you also anti-abortion?

[Scairp]

109. I wish there really was a god

I need divine help right now. This incident has fuck all to do with SMOKING. It's about a man with guns pointing them at people walking down the street. Who cares what HIS reasons were? He's dangerous. Maybe he's done this before and no one was able to get his license number and get him caught but even if he has never done it, so what? He's started it and he has to go to prison.

[Marrah_G]

99. No she isn't

FFS

[Scairp]

103. Christ, not here too

Let me try to help you-THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SMOKING. Are you somewhat clearer now? This is about a freak pointing a gun at someone on a public street. His reasons are irrelevant. I'm having a running verbal battle with some very dimwitted persons over at HuffPo and I've gotten pretty pissed off with the victim blaming, so please cut it out.

[The Straight Story]

104. Her body her choice (nt)

[Control-Z]

118. WTF? n/t

[Blue_Tires]

6. AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT PRENATAL HEALTH?!?!?

[deutsey]

11. LOL

Will you just take it easy, man?

[Initech]

16. MARK IT ZERO!!!!!!!!!

[Taverner]

29. There are rules, dude. This isn't Nam!

[HiPointDem]

8. kr. This is what happens when classes of people are demonized -- people feel justified in

targeting them for 'punishment'.

the targeting of smokers is all about justification for taxing them to death.

[nichomachus]

14. The taxes

aren't what's killing them.

[HiPointDem]

31. tobacco taxes fund 14% of new hampshire's state budget, 11% of alaska's, 7% of oregon's,

6%+ of RI & Maine's, etc. (2001 figures, likely higher today with the budget crises. Certainly higher in my state, which has added at least 6 rounds of tobacco taxes since 2001).

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:I4YivoHb83IJ:dor.wa.gov/content/aboutus/statisticsandreports/WAtaxstudy/Tobacco%2520_Alcohol_9-13-02.pdf+washington+state+tobacco+taxes+fund+percent+budget&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiae-m1H1aNmrxogF2OqpTlEPbcpBGP2GrXXop03O1oxndqqXt0Fln_TQncZbfOZTvTL5lJ1BsW9LdW4-HVc-db0JtfYeinyh4oL4Nz5xAS5kPGOuxJZulPkNNgCpFoSqi7B2CU&sig=AHIEtbS7a_WC-KdiRE79X32fINszKa9uPQ

Regressive taxes, falling most heavily on the poor. Accepted because of the demonization of smokers. Not to mention higher insurance rates, poorer job prospects (as many workplaces discriminate against smokers), and a general intolerance & denigration in the culture.

I'm sure you have all sorts of research rationalizing & justifying it -- smokers are costing us money, smokers are responsible for the high cost of health care, blah blah --

But that's all it is, blah blah. As the smoking habit moved from the upper classes to the lower, smoking became a targeted behavior, pure & simple.

[nichomachus]

34. There's a good way poor people can escape the taxes

Simply stop smoking

[HiPointDem]

70. yeah, we couldn't tax rich people so there'd be fewer poor people. that would be fucking unamerican

it's the american way to butt into poorer people's business & treat them like they're defective, to tax them up the ass for their minor vices while simultaneously telling them they don't pay taxes and are useless eaters who cost the yuppies money.

[Scootaloo]

21. Ohnoes. NOT TAXES!

Dunh dun DUUUUUNH!

[HiPointDem]

32. Yeah, I have a thing about poor people being taxed and rich people sliding. Sue me.

[WI_DEM]

33. well most people are not nuts enough to pull a gun on a pregnant woman

even if they think she is wrong headed to smoke. As a matter of fact I'd say 99.9999% wouldn't.

[cynatnite]

9. No woman should smoke while she's pregnant, but no way would I pull out a gun over it...

That's just insane.

[sakabatou]

10. +1

[Chorophyll]

17. No stranger gets to tell any woman what to do, but I wouldn't pull a gun over that.

So you're safe.

[cynatnite]

20. I wouldn't anyway. As a woman, I don't like much being dictated to either. :) n/t

[Chorophyll]

15. ...and this is what happens when one political party decides women are nothing but baby-vessels,

and allows complete f*cking morans to keep semiautomatic handguns around like they're spare socks.

Culture of Life!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

23. +1

[SheilaT]

18. The REAL issue is not whether or not a pregnant woman should smoke,

but whether or not anyone has the right to pull a gun on someone doing something the gun-puller thinks is objectionable. To which the answer is: NO! NEVER!

Maybe if your own personal life is in danger is it justified to pull a gun, but just on someone walking down the street? The pregnant part absolutely doesn't matter. Nor does the smoking part, since smoking is still legal.

For the record, I'm one of the anti-smoking Nazis, and if I saw this woman I would not even say anything to her, because as wrong as I think she is to smoke while pregnant, it is simply none of my business that she does so.

spelling correction on edit.

[loyalsister]

38. The hypocrisy in this is riculous

You are threatening your baby, so I am justified in threatening both... because I am pro-life and am deeply concerned about prenatal care for babies.

[BarackTheVote]

41. Because the baby could... survive... the mother,,, getting... shot?

WTF? Ridiculous.

Or was this a Fight Club kind of thing: "I'm gonna keep an eye on you, girl, and if you're still smoking when this baby's born, you will be dead." Either way, f'k this guy.

[smirkymonkey]

90. +1000

Thank You! I was wondering when somebody was going to call that out.

But, I guess guns are cooler than cigarettes where she lives.

[Marrah_G]

110. Yes- bullets are way better for babies.

Why not just lock women up until they give birth...if they struggle to much you can just strap them down.

I suggest the Anti-choice crowd takes all their fucking money and invest it in incubators. Machines don't have that pesky free will and choice crap to have to deal with, right?

[etherealtruth]

94. That's it in a nut shell!

[HockeyMom]

19. I got lectured for having a cup of COFFEE with breakfast

in a restaurant. "You should be drinking MILK". Well, besides I don't like milk, it turned out my daughter was/is severely allergic to dairy. I myself couldn't have dairy when she nursed.


People need to mind their own damned business.

[rhett o rick]

24. They were probably eating a bacon cheese burger with fries and 1 liter of coke. nm

[cherish44]

25. So what's he going to do shoot and kill her for smoking out of concern for the baby?

While neither are good, I think the baby stands a much better chance of survival gestating in a woman who smokes than in a dead one.

[NCTraveler]

27. Cigarettes are just about the most difficult addiction to break.

I am sure she was addicted before getting pregnant. What is his excuse.

[RebelOne]

42. They sure as hell are a difficult addition to break.

But when I was pregnant, cigarettes made me sick. That's how I knew I was pregnant the second time. I could not even stand to look at a cigarette without getting nauseous. But unforunately, after each child's birth I started to smoke again to lose the baby weight.

[ejpoeta]

85. that happened to me! I couldn't even smoke one cigarette without getting sick.

I didn't know I was pregnant at the time. I didn't smoke during my pregnancy because of that and also I didn't want to expose my daughter to that. She loves hearing how she helped me quit smoking. But I did smoke when I went back to work on breaks. I figured if I didnt' buy a pack of cigarettes i was ok. I just bummed them off others. Then I decided I had to choose. So I quit going outside during break and stopped before I got addicted again.

I figure I wasn't a REAL smoker because I could only smoke certain cigarettes. My husband... now he was a real addict. It took him several attempts to finally quit. He quit for a year and then started again. I wanted to beat him! But he finally quit with the help of Chantix and has been smoke free for four years now. I am so proud of him.

[RebelOne]

114. Kudos to your husband. n/t

[Iris]

112. And in some cases doctors will settle for cutting back if that's all the mother can do.

Strangers need not involve themselves in these matters.

[Initech]

30. To quote the late great Bill Hicks: "We're pro life and we're gonna kill your ass!"

[Alduin]

35. Women should not be smoking while pregnant.

I don't think she should have a gun pulled on her, but scientific evidence shows that smoking while pregnant can be damaging to the fetus's health.

[shintao]

36. And yet tobacco is not banned in America

We know it's bad, everybody knows it's bad, but there is just no groundswell to ban tobacco in America.

[Alduin]

37. Wait...what?

[peacebird]

117. The woman CAN smoke, even though it is not best for the fetus. It is her body, her right.

She can also drink. Again not the best idea, BUT it is still her body, her child, her choice.
Free will at work.

[maxsolomon]

45. CAN be damaging

but it is very rare.

my mom smoked, lightly, while pregnant with me, in the early 60s. i am not damaged that i can tell. tobacco isn't crack.

millions of children have been born, undamaged, to mothers who not only smoked tobacco, but DRANK ALCOHOL, moderately, while pregnant. fetal alcohol syndrome doesn't happen because you have one sip of pinot grigio.

americans are binary: its either on or off, black or white. you're either a 100% teetotaler during pregnancy, or you're a murderer. the jackhole in this story probably felt he was going to save the baby.

[johnnie]

48. Same here

My mother smoked while pregnant with me. After close to 50 years I'm waiting for this horrendous damage my mother caused me. I'm not saying its a good thing if a woman smokes while pregnant but so many people do have that binary thinking you mention.

[Alduin]

62. Rare???

So just because your mom smoked doesn't make it okay!

[maxsolomon]

98. I didn't say it was "OK" to smoke while pregnant - I gave a personal anecdote.

Of course, there is always a risk factor for any behavior, no matter how infinitessimal, it is not zero.

I said that Americans have a tendency to reduce harmful behaviors to black or white decisions. This fine citizen pointed a gun at a woman who didn't submit to his binary standards.

My contention: One cigarette isn't going to give a fetus lung cancer. One glass of Pinot Grigio isn't going to cause Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. I am living proof, as are millions around the globe. Do you know different?

Eye roll & ROFL smilie yourself.

[Iris]

111. Yes, the risk has been proven.

However, she is still a free citizen despite the pregnancy and it is not a stranger's business to tell her what to do. That's between her and her doctor.

[ck4829]

46. The anti-choicers in a nutshell

[etherealtruth]

56. Contrary to opinions expressed, a woman does not lose her autonomy when pregnant

She remains a free and autonomous adult ... she has the right to make her own choices .... good or bad, just as every other citizen of the US.

Is it only her body if you are pro-choice AND she conforms to what you decide is a good choice? Clearly we know the anti choicers believe a woman loses her right to make decisions about her own body the moment she has sex.

How do we force a woman to make "good" choices while pregnant? shall we incarcerate her so that she eats appropriately (doesn't gain too much or too little weight), doesn't have a drink? .... perhaps we need to sterilize all addicts (because we know by their addiction they are of poor moral quality by virtue of being an addict).

Sorry folks it is HER body and her choice .... argue that its not just her body ... its the baby .... the same exact argument the anti-choicers make

(sorry this really isn't directed to the OP .... but directed to those that presume a pregnant woman surrenders her autonomy)

[Warren DeMontague]

58. Pregnancy, Smoking AND Guns.. Crap, it's like a DU Popcorn Trifecta!

If it had only happened at the olive garden. Sigh.

[Bake]

60. I guess it was too soon for breast-feeding!

But look at all the concern ... some don't know whether to applaud the guy for confronting the SMOKING PREGNANT WOMAN or wring their hands because he had a Glock ...





Bake

[boppers]

67. Maybe a follow-up about holding a gun at a circumcision?

We can always speculate...

[name not needed]

121. Followed by holding a gun at a crying child in a restaurant.

[wickerwoman]

65. Too bad he didn't sic a pitbull on her.

But if it's a boy we can still fight about circumcision.

[name not needed]

116. If we hadn't bombed the Moon this would have never happened.

[Marrah_G]

120. hehe

~snort~

[scheming daemons]

61. both of these two are real winners

Poor baby.. mom is trash.

And the Guy in the truck is a Darwin award waiting to happen.

[alphafemale]

84. Yeah. I was thinking what happens when two assholes collide. nt

[boppers]

68. Another responsible gun owner, looking out for the general public.

Such nice folks, going out of their way to use the 2nd amendment as they see fit.

[Whovian]

73. I believe there are people here that would have no problem in shooting a smoker.

Simply because they smoke and they see it as a great evil.

[bongbong]

76. Guns!

The Delicate Flowers (AKA Gun Nuts) here in the DU Gun Lobby keep telling us they're safer than unicorns & candy.

[boston bean]

80. What if she had been smoking one of them mareewanna cigarattes?

[krispos42]

91. ...

[trailmonkee]

113. my favorite opening line of the year:

'Nothing says, "I care about your baby's health" like firearms'