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Sat May 16, 2020, 08:42 PM

Based on my trip out today - we're all gonna die from COVID 19.

May as well get it over with, since we can't count on either our local governments OR our fellow citizens to cooperate.

I went to two of the three stores I visited last week (on my second jaunt out since the first week of March).

In the store where 60+% of people were wearing masks last week - the number had dropped to fewer than 10%. The number of employees not wearing masks (or wearing them below their noses and/or mouths) had increased.

As I entered the store, two unmasked people - ignoring the one-way exit - commented in my general direction, "They should be safe, they are wearing masks."

In a store where only 66% of the employees were effectively wearing masks a week ago (the owner was wearing it around his neck) - 66% today were completely unmasked - not even a mask aroung their necks. Again - the % of customers wearing masks dropped from 60+% a week ago to fewer than 10%.

DeWine gave in to the "masks hurt my feelings" crowd - hoping (I think) that if he didn't mandate a bedtime for the toddlers they might actually stop fighting sleep so hard. Not working. We're all gonna die.

(Sorry to be so facetious - but I'm pissed and resigned to a massive increase in COVID 19 in a couple of weeks. I just hope DeWine returns to his senses before it is too late - and he completely destroys any benefit Ohio gained from his very smart earlier decisions. But since I don't expect he will, I'm just going to hibernate in place.)

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Reply Based on my trip out today - we're all gonna die from COVID 19. (Original post)
Ms. Toad May 2020 OP
Newest Reality May 2020 #1
BamaRefugee May 2020 #3
Newest Reality May 2020 #7
Blue_true May 2020 #14
appleannie1 May 2020 #24
Blue_true May 2020 #52
Ms. Toad May 2020 #27
Blue_true May 2020 #53
42bambi May 2020 #2
Ms. Toad May 2020 #5
42bambi May 2020 #8
uponit7771 May 2020 #4
Ms. Toad May 2020 #6
cally May 2020 #9
Ms. Toad May 2020 #16
appleannie1 May 2020 #25
KentuckyWoman May 2020 #10
panader0 May 2020 #11
Blue_true May 2020 #12
Ms. Toad May 2020 #21
localroger May 2020 #13
Ms. Toad May 2020 #19
womanofthehills May 2020 #15
AlexSFCA May 2020 #17
Ms. Toad May 2020 #20
AlexSFCA May 2020 #22
spudspud May 2020 #30
Maru Kitteh May 2020 #50
AlexSFCA May 2020 #54
NickB79 May 2020 #35
certainot May 2020 #18
marlakay May 2020 #23
Initech May 2020 #26
Ms. Toad May 2020 #29
spudspud May 2020 #32
Ms. Toad May 2020 #33
Warpy May 2020 #28
Ms. Toad May 2020 #31
OhioChick May 2020 #49
spudspud May 2020 #34
Warpy May 2020 #43
JCMach1 May 2020 #36
Mariana May 2020 #42
JCMach1 May 2020 #51
SKKY May 2020 #37
Buckeye_Democrat May 2020 #38
Ms. Toad May 2020 #40
Buckeye_Democrat May 2020 #44
Demovictory9 May 2020 #39
Ms. Toad May 2020 #41
herding cats May 2020 #45
Tipperary May 2020 #46
EllieBC May 2020 #48
Hermit-The-Prog May 2020 #47

Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 08:53 PM

1. I try...

I try to look at it as some form of natural selection that is going on that we don't quite understand yet.

Maybe combine that with some sort of thanatos instinct, (death wish) and a heaping helping of ignorance with a side order of gullibility, plus a slathering of Dunning-Kruger gravy on top. Poof!

We may be seeing a self-culling of the herd, judging by their behaviors.

We need to continue to keep ourselves safe and follow our genetic destiny as opposed to theirs. It may be important for our species. I am not even a materialist, but am taking it from that perspective.

I am being satirical and humorous, but that's one way to look at it.




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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #1)

Sat May 16, 2020, 09:04 PM

3. The problem is, these people are going to drag innocent people into the grave with them.

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Response to BamaRefugee (Reply #3)

Sat May 16, 2020, 09:10 PM

7. I know.

It feels like a rock and a hard place, but we must avoid them as much as is possible, keep our distance, and consider them to be potential vectors. I do that.

We can wear our masks, social distance, avoid gatherings and crowds, wash our hands and sanitize, stay home when possible. They will be throwing themselves into potential clouds of heavy viral loads and inhaling droplets with abandon.

Who has a better chance of making it through this unscathed?

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Response to BamaRefugee (Reply #3)

Sat May 16, 2020, 10:40 PM

14. I disagree somewhat with the point that you made.

When I see idiots not wearing masks, I try to avoid them first. If I can't avoid them, then I try to minimize my interaction time with them and social distance as much as possible. I believe that if we pay attention and act as safely as possible when in public, the unluckiest of us will get infected and could die, but the vast majority of us will come through this fine.

I view this situation as one where one group of people are choosing to expose itself to big risks, that never works out in time. Our side just need to be patient and practice conduct that maximize our chance to stay healthy and most certainly, alive.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #14)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:27 PM

24. Except that many of us either are or have loved ones that are nurses, doctors, EMT's, paramedics,

police or firemen. They all have to deal with the rockheads that get infected up close and personal.

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Response to appleannie1 (Reply #24)

Sun May 17, 2020, 10:00 AM

52. I get your point, a lot of people are worried about loved ones that are on the front lines. nt

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #14)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:35 PM

27. The challenge is that I am exposed to these idiots

because my daughter is an essential worker. She is exposed to literally hundreds of them every day - and she brings whatever they have home to me. As the rate of infection grows (even if it only grows in the population of idiots not wearing masks) there is little I can do to avoid exposure.

To put it bluntly - in the terms of the AIDS epidemic of decades ago - even though I'm monagamous, I'm "sleeping" with every one of the hundreds of people she is "sleeping with" on a daily basis.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #27)

Sun May 17, 2020, 10:05 AM

53. I don't know what to say to you other than work hard to stay safe.

It would be good if we had a responsible president, but we don't have that person. So our own activities and the defenses we set are the only things that we have. That will turn out to not be good enough to save some of us.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 08:58 PM

2. My go to mode is that everyone is infected with COVID, myself included, which

keeps me extra cautious all the time!

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Response to 42bambi (Reply #2)

Sat May 16, 2020, 09:06 PM

5. That's my M.O., as well.

I'm having a harder time acting on that belief since I'm at home 24/7. I've been working 80-100 hours a week outside of the home. I've mastered the art of staying well outside of the home by adopting that basis for moving about in the world. (I've had the flu once since 2009 when I adopted this posture. I get a mild cold about every other winter.)

But I am now home 24/7 - a space I tend to think of as relatively safe. So I wash my hands less frequently than I do at work - and I touch surfaces with my bare hands at home (which I never do in the winter at work).

I have to retrain myself to pretend my home is my work space - since my daughter is an essential worker and has worked steadily through the shut-down (bringing home anything she is exposed to in her new customer every 5 minutes workday), and my spouse has always believed rules (incluign safety rules) don't apply to her.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #5)

Sat May 16, 2020, 09:28 PM

8. Golly, you've got your hands full, but you also know what not to do. But then,

you're also mindful of what your loved ones should be doing as well. Somehow it will work out - we can only do what we know is best for everyone - and hope it all works out. Good luck to you and yours.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 09:06 PM

4. I went to the flying field to fly RC models, everyone is scared of everyone and they're all white

... and heard about the flare up in the meat plant an hour north of us.

People wouldn't get near each other

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #4)

Sat May 16, 2020, 09:07 PM

6. Good (unfortunately) - it likely won't be until we all have that experience

that we start having proper respect for this disease.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 09:37 PM

9. Every employee and customer had on a mask

When I went to store today. Carts were sprayed and wiped down before given to us. What impressed me the most was that folks put on mask after getting out of car and before waiting in the line to enter the store. There were marks 6 feet apart and we stood in line on the marks so the store did not get too crowded. Felt fairly safe.

Definitely red vs. blue

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Response to cally (Reply #9)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:10 PM

16. Not red v. blue -

Until now, DeWine has been ahead of most blue states.

He has now fallen behind - but I don't think it is political affiliation - at least not his political affiliation.

I think it has to do with the idiocy of the population. My guess is that enforcement would have been impossible (regardless of the poitical affiliation of the governor - and that he decided to hope for self-regulation once the threat of government enforcement was removed. I think he seriously misjudged the impact of the early "masks are bad" messaging - and the good will of the idiots who were carrying out mass protests starting roughly a month ago.

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Response to cally (Reply #9)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:29 PM

25. It is like that where I live too. Unfortunately I live very close to Ohio.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 09:44 PM

10. I see zero chance

Police will be permitted to arrest people for no mask. Without that it is doomed to fail. The last time I remember a strong sense of civic duty is before Reagan and even then it was a stretch.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 09:55 PM

11. I've seen many people question whether life will ever "return to normal".

The restaurants in my little town have re-opened. About half of the people don't
wear masks or even may think it's all OK now. Basically, it's almost "normal" again
already.
Not for me. I'm still isolating. No one has been in my house and I don't go to my
friends' houses. Haven't played music with my buddies, or even hung out, for maybe
10 weeks.
I'll wait and watch. I still have a good supply of patience left.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 10:31 PM

12. Wow. If you are feeling this way, everyone else here should be terrified.

Because almost half of people that get infected are asymptomatic, we won't get wiped out, but an enormous number of people that are not asymptomatic will suffer and of that group, some will die. In addition, it has not been shown conclusively that the virus ISN'T doing permanent damage within the bodies of asymptomatic people, at some level.

I take an optimistic view on life, that has helped me weather some really dark times. I will continue to wear a mask placed on properly when in public, and I will work to avoid people that aren't wearing masks. My belief is that soon we will have a President that takes this situation with the level of professionalism that it requires, at that point we will progressively become better off in dealing with SAR-COV-2.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #12)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:16 PM

21. I'm just really frustrated - I had expected DeWine to hold the line -

since he was so far out ahead of most states. It is unbelievable that he is squandering all of the good he accomplished early on.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 10:32 PM

13. There will be a second wave

Both the new infection and death rates were doubling every 3 days before the shutdowns. Since some people will continue to be cautious, I figure the doubling rate will be about 6 or 7 days now. Since it's easier to hide new infections deaths will be the unavoidable trigger, and they lag by 3 weeks so it will be about a month before the new wave becomes impossible to hide. By that time there will have been 4 or 5 doublings, so starting from where we are as I type this maybe a million deaths nationwide. At that point we are getting into saturation territory for places like NYC and NOLA which were early hotspots. The problem is the rest of the country which is just now getting exposed. It's going to be a long summer leading up to a November election that might as well be a hundred years from now.

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Response to localroger (Reply #13)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:13 PM

19. Ohio is ramping up testing pretty well -

So I think we'll see the rapid increase in two, rather than 3, weeks (at least in Ohio). I just hope that DeWine will revert to his earlier "respect the science" posture.

But I agree - it will be a long summer, with lots of sickness and death.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 10:40 PM

15. Masks required in all public places in NM went into effect today

So I went into one store - all employees had masks or were wearing shields but a few customers were not.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:12 PM

17. Sweden seems to be doing fine, few if any wear masks

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #17)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:14 PM

20. Look at the per-capita infections and death. n/t

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #20)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:25 PM

22. lower than Italy, Spain, France, UK and NYC

the countries/states that had or still have the most draconian lockdowns outside China. No schools or daycare centers have been closed in Sweden. No masks are required. No businesses are closed. Over 50% of all Civid-19 deaths in Sweden in nursing homes. Outside nursing homes, death rate is shockingly low. Lesson learned by WA, NY, NJ, etc. the hard way. Assuming no vaccine for 18 months or 5 years, Swedish model will be the only way forward. Again, risks of reinfection is negligible to none - look at South Korea report - they are the world’s expert in testing for Covid-19: http://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200429000724

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #22)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:41 PM

30. Not sure that applying Swedish model to other countries, like US, would work.


From NY Times article, "Sweden Stayed Open. A Deadly Month Shows the Risks."

"But there is reason to believe that Sweden’s approach may not work as well elsewhere.

Sweden’s low density overall and high share of single-person households — factors it shares with its Scandinavian neighbors — set it apart from other Western European countries. In Italy, the virus tore through multigenerational households, where it easily spread from young people to their older relatives.

And although Sweden is not a particularly young country in comparison with its Western European peers, it has a high life expectancy and low levels of chronic diseases, like diabetes and obesity, that make the virus more lethal."


LINK to article.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #22)

Sun May 17, 2020, 02:03 AM

50. Oh, well as long as it's only old people in nursing homes and a few nurses, who cares,

amarite?

Fuck.


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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #50)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:28 PM

54. as long you protect nursing homes and healthcare workers

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #17)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:03 AM

35. Sweden has the US equivalent of 120,000 dead so far

And they're surrounded by nations that are following strict virus protocols, sheltering them to a degree. Not exactly comforting.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:13 PM

18. now on when i pass someone not wearing i will lie "hey, i heard someone coughing back there"

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:25 PM

23. I agree driving home in my town

I passed courthouse with hundreds of protesters squished together with no masks.

I came home and told hubby we have to be even more careful now!
This is the DU member formerly known as marlakay.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:33 PM

26. My MAGA neighbors had a party today.

Line of cars all the way up and down my street. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a skyrocket in cases where I live this week.

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Response to Initech (Reply #26)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:40 PM

29. My neighbors did, as well.

Not so much MAGA - just 5th grade education and less able to understand, so prone to the reality that the media is choosing (largely) to portray this as two competing opinions, rather than facts v. lies.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #29)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:45 PM

32. It's unfortunate the media in general bend over backwards with false equivalencies all the time.

It's not our fault that truth has a liberal slant (especially in these days where scientific truths are treated like opinions). I can understand wanting to be balanced, but it's gotten to a ridiculous point in the last 10-15 years now.

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Response to spudspud (Reply #32)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:50 PM

33. As I tell my law students

A balanced analysis doesn't include making up straw-man arguments when there really is only one side.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:39 PM

28. I need to shop and I'm dreading it

My cheap Chinese masks arrived, so I'm all set to be in compliance with the statewide public masking order and I really do need some food, tonight's dinner was the ancient Egyptian delicacy of bread and onions and it wasn't bad, but that was my last onion. Bread I can do for another couple of weeks.

Lujan-Grisham has obviously read the 1918 San Francisco playbook, since that's what she's doing here.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #28)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:41 PM

31. I wish we had a statewide public masking order. n/t

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #31)

Sun May 17, 2020, 01:45 AM

49. You and Me Both

It's going to be a shit show here within the next few weeks.

A lot of sickness and death coming and DeWine caved.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #28)

Sat May 16, 2020, 11:51 PM

34. Not sure if it's available/doable for you but Walmart has free pickup.

You can order your groceries online, schedule a date and time for pickup. When your pickup time is ready, you check in on the app, drive to the designated parking spot, and they bring your groceries out to your trunk. You never have to touch anything or interact with anyone. They also have suspended the necessity of singing for anything on their pads.

Though I know this is not viable for everyone, not just because of a lack of a Walmart (or similar store) nearby, but lack of transportation.

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Response to spudspud (Reply #34)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:37 AM

43. My driving days are over

so I need to take a cab there and back. I just don't want to stand out in front in 90 degree heat waiting to get into the damned place. Having everybody masked should stop that nonsense, but you never know. Give how long droplets hang in the air, that social distance crap was doomed to failure.

I also need prescriptions, so I really need to go in.

Good news is that new cases are down here in the city. Bad news is that the Navajo nation is still getting clobbered hard.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:15 AM

36. The same idiots will be dropping loads in their pants

when the death toll spikes around them...

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Response to JCMach1 (Reply #36)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:30 AM

42. They'll scream "HOAX!" right up until the very end.

It's a death cult.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #42)

Sun May 17, 2020, 02:38 AM

51. Oh trust, they will do both and have no cognitive dissonance

About it

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:17 AM

37. See, now that's odd. I visited my local Sam's Club in Indiana...

...and almost everyone had masks on. Last week, very few had masks on. Not sure what to make of this.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:20 AM

38. DeWine really messed up... big time!

All of that initial effort in Ohio... flushed down the toilet.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #38)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:24 AM

40. That matches my opinion, at the moment.

What I can't figure out is why Acton is going along with it. She had numerous opportunities over the last few days to insert caution and chose not to take them. She was on the Obama campaign team, so she owes no political alliance to DeWine.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #40)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:42 AM

44. I just compare Tokyo and New York.

Tokyo is more densely populated, but they've had FAR fewer deaths despite the virus reaching that city too.

Tokyo has also had very few tests.

The big difference is that people in Tokyo are accustomed to wearing masks, and they're doing it again this time.

After reading about the situation with your daughter living with you, she should especially follow the recommendations from this biology professor:
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

There's some great evidence-based information in that link. It could even lower anxiety in some situations, like talking to another person while outside. Shopping is also not as great a risk compared to other situations.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:22 AM

39. I guess we'll see who was right.. eventually

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Response to Demovictory9 (Reply #39)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:25 AM

41. Likely within 4 weeks. n/t

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #41)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:46 AM

45. We'll just see the uptick then.

The end game is way, way out from now, sadly.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 12:55 AM

46. Why would you go to three stores last week and two

 

today? I go for pickup to get groceries once every two weeks. You are braver than I.

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Response to Tipperary (Reply #46)

Sun May 17, 2020, 01:13 AM

48. Maybe more people in their household?

We have 6 in ours. 3 adults and 3 children. And all of the stores here have limits on purchases. And often are out of goods still. That means extra trips.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 01:13 AM

47. Build an airlock for your daughter to pass through.

Everything that comes from outside, stays out -- don't let it pass through the airlock chamber. If you can't have a shower there, have her make a bee-line to the shower after ditching everything that was exposed at work.

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