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Sun May 17, 2020, 04:40 AM

Two Coasts. One Virus. How New York Suffered Nearly 10 Times the Number of Deaths as California.

https://www.propublica.org/article/two-coasts-one-virus-how-new-york-suffered-nearly-10-times-the-number-of-deaths-as-california

California’s governor and San Francisco’s mayor worked together to act early in confronting the COVID threat. For Andrew Cuomo and Bill de Blasio, it was a different story, and 27,000 New Yorkers have died so far.

by Joe Sexton and Joaquin Sapien May 16, 5 a.m. EDT

<snip>

In an interview, California Health and Human Services Secretary Dr. Mark Ghaly said it was critical to allow Northern California counties to rely on their own experts, act with a degree of autonomy and thus perhaps pave the way for the state to expand on what they had done. And three days after San Francisco and its neighboring counties were closed, Newsom, on March 19, imposed the same restrictions on the rest of California.

Breed, it turns out, had sent de Blasio a copy of her detailed shelter-in-place order. She thought New York might benefit from it.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, however, reacted to de Blasio’s idea for closing down New York City with derision. It was dangerous, he said, and served only to scare people. Language mattered, Cuomo said, and “shelter-in-place” sounded like it was a response to a nuclear apocalypse.

Moreover, Cuomo said, he alone had the power to order such a measure.

For years, Cuomo and de Blasio, each of whom has harbored national political ambitions, had engaged in a kind of intrastate cold war, a rivalry that to many often felt childish and counterproductive. When de Blasio finally decided to close the city’s schools, it was Cuomo who rushed to make the public announcement, claiming it as his decision.

“No city in the state can quarantine itself without state approval,” Cuomo said of de Blasio’s call for a shelter-in-place order. “I have no plan whatsoever to quarantine any city.”

Cuomo’s conviction didn’t last. On March 22, he, too, shuttered his state. The action came six days after San Francisco had shut down, five days after de Blasio suggested doing similarly and three days after all of California had been closed by Newsom. By then, New York faced a raging epidemic, with the number of confirmed cases at 15,000 doubling every three or four days.

</snip>


Post-March 22, I've appreciated and applauded Governor Cuomo's actions, especially the informative pressers. But it was a huge mistake when he dragged his feet for days about the statewide closing.

(Link to donate to ProPublica - they've been doing excellent work throughout this https://donate.propublica.org/give/141278/#!/donation/checkout )

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Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply Two Coasts. One Virus. How New York Suffered Nearly 10 Times the Number of Deaths as California. (Original post)
Dennis Donovan May 2020 OP
RandySF May 2020 #1
Dennis Donovan May 2020 #3
roamer65 May 2020 #16
Hermit-The-Prog May 2020 #18
secondwind May 2020 #6
padfun May 2020 #2
shanti May 2020 #20
Squinch May 2020 #4
BeyondGeography May 2020 #5
jmg257 May 2020 #7
RAB910 May 2020 #8
Squinch May 2020 #9
phylny May 2020 #11
Igel May 2020 #15
RAB910 May 2020 #19
chia May 2020 #10
shockey80 May 2020 #12
not_the_one May 2020 #13
Stuart G May 2020 #14
SKKY May 2020 #17

Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 04:45 AM

1. We freaked the fuck out and sheltered before government officials told us to.

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Response to RandySF (Reply #1)

Sun May 17, 2020, 04:53 AM

3. I did too, on March 11

It was 11 days before the statewide shelter-in-place order was put in place. I'd read enough about asymptomatic transmission, and the fact it was starting to spread outside of "downstate", with cases appearing in the Capital Region (Albany), that I was like, "I'm out." I went to the grocery store, which still had plenty of TP and soap, got supplies for a month, and hoped for the best.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #3)

Sun May 17, 2020, 11:21 AM

16. Yeah, same here.

I had a club meeting on March 5 and I told them I wouldn’t be attending again until it was safe for our older members.

After that meeting I started shutting it down, personally.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #3)

Sun May 17, 2020, 01:01 PM

18. That was the last day for my household, too.

We live 'way out in the boonies of KY, far from any international airport or large city, but it was clear by March 11 that (a) it was already spreading out from cities, airports, seaports; (b) test and trace wasn't going to catch up; (c) we're all on our own.

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Response to RandySF (Reply #1)

Sun May 17, 2020, 06:09 AM

6. Same here, we live in the Bay Area.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 04:48 AM

2. Northern California was the very first place

to go into lockdown. And we kept all of the cannabis stores open as they were deemed "essential"

And we don't seem to have many MAGATS going against them. At the stores, I see over 90% wearing masks and you just don't have the issues that middle America seems to have.

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Response to padfun (Reply #2)

Sun May 17, 2020, 01:57 PM

20. Sacramento has leveled the curve

but the last time I went to the store (wednesday), 2/3 of the shoppers were not wearing masks.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 05:02 AM

4. My recollection, as an NYC employee, was that Cuomo was

pushing closing while DeBlasio was saying the schools and various offices HAD to stay open and would not close.

And that DeBlasio had been saying that for a lot longer than the single work day between 3/19 and 3/22.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 05:53 AM

5. The ritual pissing party between NY State and NYC is part of the story

But the city is even denser than its politics. As in population density, which makes it far more vulnerable to a pandemic than any place in California. That said, leaders like Breed and Newsom were way ahead of the game and the results speak for themselves.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 06:53 AM

7. Lots of deaths in nursing homes too, which wasn't handled

Properly.
This is the DU member formerly known as jmg257.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 07:34 AM

8. This article is just so much bullshit

The reality is Trump fucked the NYC area. While the racist and chief had no problem banning travel from China, Trump allowed millions of people (many infected) to come from Europe for at least a week more than they should of. When the region discovered it was present it was everywhere

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #8)

Sun May 17, 2020, 08:03 AM

9. This.

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #8)

Sun May 17, 2020, 08:55 AM

11. Thank you for stating this truth. n/t

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #8)

Sun May 17, 2020, 11:16 AM

15. Hmmm ...

Wouldn't that hypothesis predict that if California didn't suffer, Trump was nice to Cali?

Don't see that.

Notice also the acclaim that greeted the travel ban:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/world/europe/europe-coronavirus-travel-ban.html

In his address from the Oval Office on Wednesday, Mr. Trump pointedly described the source of the epidemic as a “foreign virus” and criticized the European Union for having “failed to take the same precautions” as he had in restricting travel from China, the source of the outbreak.

“As a result, a large number of new clusters in the United States were seeded by travelers from Europe,’’ Mr. Trump said.

In fact, Europe has not been a major source of known infections so far in the United States.


It goes on to make fairly clear that the NYT considered the ban not to be too late but to be completely offensive and wrong. In other words, the opposite of what the NYT now says it said. (It's like the media tweets from late January saying that the novel coronavirus was being contained and wasn't a problem here, so be more worried about the flu ... they vanished because they don't fit the current reality).

DU was mixed. Some said it pointless because it was too late, some were more upset at the exemptions (leaving whether the ban itself was a good idea), some objected to offending Europe so there shouldn't have been a ban.

In short, the same blather we heard in late January when the ban on travel from China was imposed. It won't work in principle, it won't work because there are loopholes, it won't work because too late, or it's simply offensive. It's only in retrospect that the mistakes we make vanish from the pages of history and we've always been right.

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Response to Igel (Reply #15)

Sun May 17, 2020, 01:55 PM

19. The NYT didn't actually express an opinion in the link you provided

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 08:49 AM

10. I really like ProPublica, but they could have explored the hypotheses regarding different mutations,

that the strain that predominated in New York was from Europe and the strain that predominated on the West Coast was from China, and how the strain from Europe was possibly more contagious.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-05/mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-more-contagious-than-original

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8206625/America-hit-COVID-19-two-continents-studies-suggest.html

(I know it's the Daily Mail, sorry, but the graphics in the story are helpful)

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/05/the-coronavirus-mutated-and-appears-to-be-more-contagious-now-new-study-finds.html

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 09:09 AM

12. It's all Trumps fault, end of story.

 

New York shut down three days after California. That is not the reason New York City got hit hard. The City got hit hard because it is New York City. There is no other place in the country like New York City.

Extremely dense population. Large subway system. Thousands of workers from other States. Thousands of people from around the world travel to the city everyday. When the virus hit the city it spread everywhere overnight. If New City shut down the same time as California, it would have made no difference.

We needed a president who would have ordered the whole country shut down. Testing and tracing put in place. Trump lied for over month as the virus spread everywhere. That's why New York City got hit hard.

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Response to shockey80 (Reply #12)

Sun May 17, 2020, 09:43 AM

13. What shockey80 said...

 

California is a car culture. NYC is NOT.

NYC residents (by the millions) have no choice but to crowd into tin cans/buses with a ton of other people, where social distancing is not possible. Add to that the huge influx of outsiders (it is the # 1 tourist destination in the US), and if you don't know you got a bug spreading, millions are in immediate danger of being exposed.

Cuomo, once he got his sea legs under him, became the political leader this pandemic needed.

It doesn't do us any good to compare apples and oranges. We know the "heartland" hates New York City. So. Fucking. What. We wear that badge proudly.

NYC will come back, and by its very nature, will again be the # 1 US tourist destination.

New York, New York.. what a wonderful town!

edit in bold

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Response to not_the_one (Reply #13)

Sun May 17, 2020, 10:02 AM

14. Some people do not know why NYC is not a..."Car Culture" ..NO PARKING IN MANHATTAN..

I don't know how much it is to park a car in Manhattan..Maybe $100 a day?..Maybe more?
Who can afford $500.00 a week? to park a car? Can you?

Manhattan is not the only place like that..I was in Tokyo Japan in 2007. Same thing. Everyone uses public transportation....Why? at that time, gas was somewhere around $5.00 a gallon...So in today's money..maybe 15 dollars a gallon. (maybe more) Parking in downtown Tokyo is also quite limited. ..Everyone uses the public transportation system. (everyone) And people are pretty respectful,l if I recall, no pushing or shoving, people stand in line to enter subway trains, one person stands behind another, not side by side.
...Also...subway trains come very often. Where I was went, the trains came every 4 minutes. (downtown) That is not true of every place, but in some it is true.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Sun May 17, 2020, 11:25 AM

17. This is comparing apples to oranges. Italy and Spain would be a better...

...comparison for New York. California doesn't have the population density either of those have.

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