Does Ducey being AZ Governor make Kyrsten Sinema for VP an impossibility?

[musicblind]

To be clear, she is not my first choice.

My enthusiastic top three are: Stacey Abrams, Elizabeth Warren, or Kamala Harris (in that order). I'm also ok with Amy Klouchar or Gretchen Whitmer.

However, I was thinking, if AZ didn't have a Republican Govenor, Sen. Sinema might be an interesting compromise VP from a swing state. She's young and openly LGBTQ, but her voting record isn't far left, yet she is a former member of the Green Party.

What do you guys think?

[roamer65]

1. They won't want to lose the seat.

I doubt it will be her.

[elleng]

2. IMO, Sinema's own unpredictability makes her not a good choice.

[rurallib]

4. yep

[Thekaspervote]

21. This plus the seat would go to a repub..it's Governor appointed

[Mike 03]

39. Yes.

Sinema has walked a fine line and is just now, since her Impeachment vote, in the process of finding her true legs and asserting herself. She'll be a great Arizona senator, but she's not appropriate for something this important at this moment in time. She's still afraid to say what needs to be said. But hopefully, that is changing.

[qazplm135]

3. Biden will pick one of two choices:

a woman of color, or Warren.

[brooklynite]

27. I'd say a woman of color or NOT Warren...

She's great in the Senate, but I don't see her as a great VP and two eastern liberals isn't a balanced ticket.

[qazplm135]

34. the idea of a balanced ticket

lost meaning a long time ago. She gets progressives on board, that's important. Two biggest groups for us, progressives and people of color. Moderates are already on-board. His pick will target one or both of those groups. That means a progressive woman of color, or it means Warren. That's it.

Of course Warren would be a great VP.

[RhodeIslandOne]

35. Joe is an "eastern liberal"?

LOL, okay.

[brooklynite]

38. Delaware isn't flyover country

[calguy]

5. I don't think she's been around long enough to be a viable choice

She doesn't have the name recognition of some of the other choices. I feel the same about Stacy. My first choice is Amy, second choice Kamala. I have no third choice because I think it'll be one of those two.
Whoever it is, I'm sure I'll be able to support her. I trust Joe and his team to make the best choice.

[Big Blue Marble]

10. I totally agree with you.

I will be happy with either and both are to be president if necessary.

[Trumpocalypse]

12. Neither is a good choice

Both are from blue states and don’t put any swing states in play. Klobuchar would be a slap in the face to African Americans who gave Biden the nomination. Harris history as a prosecutor will alienate progressives. There are much better choices available.

[OnDoutside]

22. "slap in the face to African Americans" I've seen that constantly thrown around here and logically

it is not true. What WOULD be a slap in the face to African Americans, is if Trump was re-elected. That's why they voted for Biden, because beating Trump is THE no 1 priority. Otherwise they'd have backed a POC like Harris or Booker.

Now I agree with you about Harris, and I think Klobuchar would be the Tim Kaine of 2020 (both of them are really nice people, but add little to the ticket). My favourite is Stacey, as she (apart from being fantastic anyway) would be someone progressives could get behind, comes from the South and is currently organising the fight against voter suppression.

[Trumpocalypse]

26. Actually the phrase comes from a

Washington Post article last week which discussed the potential VP picks with African American leaders and that was their consensus on Klobuchar.

[OnDoutside]

30. I've seen it here, for weeks.

[Celerity]

16. pass on Klobuchar

1. She is the most problematic with PoC of the 11 or so frontrunners (she polled worse that Buttigieg did with A-A's and does not have a great legal background when it comes to race-related justice issues from her time as Hennepin County Attorney.) She also, at one point, she had voted for nearly 2/3rds of Trump's judicial nominees, some of them who were clearly unqualified.

2. She lacks the temperament, IMHO, based off her past interactions with staff and subordinates, which was on exhibit in the last several debates.

3. She would be the most antagonistic pick in regards to the left half (not just the far left Sanders people) of the party as she ran one of the most hostile-to-progressives primaries (only surpassed by Hickenlooper, Delaney, and Bloomberg IMHO.)

4. She adds little in terms of energising and attracting the under 45yo vote (she polled very poorly with them the entire primary campaign), which is a pre-existing issue with Biden himself.

5. I think the entire 'she will bring the Midwest for sure' angle is overrated, as she did fairly poorly in Iowa (5th place), which is adjacent to Minnesota. I think she brings little to the table in terms of winning Florida (as massively crucial state) as well, the same for North Carolina. Georgia, and Nevada (5th place). She won 3% of the vote in SC, a heavily A-A primary.

Stacey Abrams is one candidate who would help the most with almost all of those issues, but I would go with most all of the other top 10 or 11 over Klobuchar as well. She has Kaine 2016 written all over her, with many of the same potential downsides. This is not the election to play 'let's ram in the most centrist VP pick of all the 11 or so favourites and the one with the least strength amongst PoC and younger voters' games.

[OnDoutside]

23. Well said.

Joe has the centrist corner well covered already.

[Celerity]

24. she obviously would not be a deal-breaker pick for me, but the whole point is to pick a VP

who helps us win the EC as much as possible, and I think she is one of the weaker ones in doing that. I know that is contrarian heresy to some, but its the same gut feeling I had in 2016 about Kaine. I do not want to get into internecine ideological warfare with the left half the party (not just the radical left), just the same as I do not want Biden to pick a hardcore Berniecrat style pick, which alienate the other half and scupper our chances with the furthest right of the party and the indies. I think Harris would be a good balance, so would Stacey Abrams, so would Gov. Whitmer, and Gov. Lujan Grisham. Sen. Duckworth and Sen. Baldwin as well.

I have really been all in on Stacey Abrams, but (and the poster might be surprised) I was turned onto some articles in the middle of a pretty heated debate about Abrams (I was pro, they were really against her, to the point I got my back up hard), and I now think that Harris is a co-front runner for me, and might actually be the safer choice. The main downside is that she is from the safest Blue State we probably have, California, BUT I think she actually would help in NC, GA, VA, FL, TX, etc. I certainly can see her as POTUS as of right now, which is huge. The whole 'Kamala is a cop' BULLSHIT was always a radical left Red Rose + RW + Russian smear job, and I highly doubt it would have any real effect on A-A turnout. It is madness to think that racial and all-round justice reform can only be undertaken from the outside. We PoC need our seats at the table as well, even as (or especially as) Attorneys General.

[Trumpocalypse]

28. Harris might have a problem with

African American voters because she married a white guy. Many AA friends I are not that crazy about her. In fact they were offended when she played the race card in the first debate to attack Biden. As one friend put it to me ‘Oh after 20 years she finally remembers that she’s black’.

[Celerity]

29. Harris has a shedload of black women supporters, many of them are quite vocal.

My mum is mixed race black Bajan, and my father Swedish, so those bigots get zero fucks given from me. My wife is white (and Swedish) so double the zero fucks given.

Most of the tongue cluckers (probably all) would not even exist if you remove all miscegenation from their ancestry.

Susan Rice is married to a white man.

Michelle Lujan Grisham is a woman of colour and married to a white man.

Catherine Cortez Masto the same.

Tammy Duckworth is Thai-American married to a white man.

Cory Booker is not married and 'living in sin' with Rosario Dawson, lolol

Stacey Abrams is 46, single, never married, so something must be wrong there too!

Colin Allred is married to a white woman

Every one of those people have been mentioned as possible VP's (even Allred in a 538 article, as a remote dark horse)

Obama had a white mother, didn't stop him, not one bit.

If these old bigots (I am sure many are anti-LGBTQ as well, so under the bus goes Tammy Baldwin) are so hateful that they would sit out and help re-elect Trump because of someone's choice of spouse, they fully deserve what they get.

FFS, some this tosh makes it sound like we have to thread a 'KKK no race-mixing' needle just to appease a small minority of haters.

white + white

'black' + 'black'

hispanic + hispanic

only need apply

I am NOT taking it out on you btw

just fed up with the bigotry even within our own party

[Trumpocalypse]

32. Agreed that all forms of bigotry is wrong

but the goal is to win an election.

[RhodeIslandOne]

36. For God's sake....

Last edited Mon May 18, 2020, 05:12 PM - Edit history (1)

I certainly hope your problem with her is "she married a white guy".

Edit: Ooops. I meant "is not" that she is married to a white guy.

[Trumpocalypse]

40. Not my problem at all

Just relating what others have told me. Harris has not had a good relationship with the African American community and got very little support from them in the primary.

[qazplm135]

37. are you kidding me with this?

Seriously?

Your "many AA friends" are not a relevant sample size.

Harris will not have a problem with AA voters. Certainly not because she "married a white guy."

[Trumpocalypse]

41. That must be why she got such overwhelming support

from African Americans in the primaries. And yes I’m being sarcastic.

But when different people from different parts of the country tell me the same thing, I take it seriously. I believe there were also issues with Harris from her time as a prosecutor.

[qazplm135]

42. she didn't get overwhelming support

because Biden had it and because we don't give our support to someone simply because they are black, we need to know that they can win. We didn't think anyone but Biden could beat Trump. Plain and simple.

If you think AAs won't overwhelmingly support a Biden-Harris ticket, you're quite ill-informed.

And no, I don't care how geographically disperse your handful of Black friends are, they aren't a significant sample size. Just stop.

[Trumpocalypse]

43. Never said African Americans wouldn't overwhelmingly support the ticket

They overwhelmingly supported Clinton too, but they didn’t come out in the numbers they came out for Obama. The African American vote really needs to be energized and there are better choices than Harris to do that.

And you might want to read something about the subject:

Harris’ record as a prosecutor — which she pitched as a strength in a potential matchup with Donald Trump in the general election, but swung back and forth between emphasizing and deemphasizing as her campaign went on — also bothered some black voters, especially black men.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/04/kamala-harris-black-voters-2020-075651

[qazplm135]

45. As a black man who has been both a prosecutor and a defense attorney

thanks, but I don't need your help understanding her past career.

Black folks will get over it real fast.

[Celerity]

46. Thanks for the article on Harris and Abrams from the Daily Kos

I actually have somewhat changed my stance and probably prefer Harris, or at least they are co-favourites for me.

I know we went at it pretty hard.

Hugz,

Cel <3

[qazplm135]

47. I'll always appreciate

someone who is willing to change their mind in the face of new evidence.

[Trumpocalypse]

48. Why are you taking this personally?

There is no need to.

[marble falls]

6. We need all the Democratic Senators we have, its not like there aren't enough good choices.

[Fiendish Thingy]

7. Sinema is definitely not on Joe's list. Warren isn't a risk for Senate majority

As MA Dems have supermajority in legislature and can force gov. To appoint a Dem.

[dsc]

8. Tammy Baldwin would be better

Democratic governor (but replacement is elected anyhow), openly gay, solidly progressive, won statewide twice in WI.

[panader0]

9. No and I live in Az

[Buzz cook]

11. That's not a compromise

She has voted with republicans more than all but one democratic senator. Just who would we be compromising with in making her VP? certainly not main stream democratic voters.

https://www.azmirror.com/2019/06/14/sinema-splits-with-democrats-to-confirm-top-trump-appointees/

She’s voted against Democrats 27.5% of the time so far this Congress, according to a ProPublica database. That puts her at No. 2 on the list of senators who break with their party most frequently, behind Democrat Joe Manchin of West Virginia.

Many of Sinema’s defections have been votes to confirm President Trump’s nominees to the executive branch and to federal courts, votes that have pleased some of her centrist backers while outraging some of her progressive constituents.

[Celerity]

17. it is actually higher (voting with Rump %) overall, 52.8% (Manchin is tops with 52.9%)

see

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13451671

[notdarkyet]

13. Sinema is the Arizonan Alaskan Barbie. Would be a huge mistake.

[JI7]

14. No, she isn't even in serious consideration

[Celerity]

15. In the Senate she has voted with Trump 52.8% of the time, only Manchin (52.9%) is higher

All the higher score (barely) Dems (only 2) lost, as did the next two with a lower score.

Doug Jones, in ALABAMA voted with Trump a LOT less %-wise than she did, you would basically have to increase his score by 50% to hit her numbers.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/





So, she has very little chance of being named VP, the left 2/3rds of the Party would not be happy at all (obviously some more than others.) And we would lose the Senate seat on top of it, of course.

[tblue37]

18. I was for Warren in the primary, but it she becomes VP, a TOP governor will get

to name her replacement.

[tblue37]

19. Doesn't she vote with the Republicans all too often? nt

[mvd]

20. Too conservative, and would like more experience

The VP candidate will have to help defend Biden against the Trump smears. And they will try a lot of smears.

I think Warren, Harris, Val Demings, Gretchen Whitmer, Tammy Duckworth, and Tammy Baldwin would fit well.

[JonLP24]

25. Actually she is very conservative for a Democrat

Don't let the Green stuff fool you. She voted to confirm Barr and has no regrets and Barr is the worst attorney general of my lifetime. Pass.

[grantcart]

31. I worked on Sinema's campaign and she is a major disappointment

We understood that she would vote right-wing on votes that didn't matter so she could vote w Dems on key votes

Turns out she isn't that dependable on key votes, she was very wobbly on impeachment.

There are other problems but no one considers her a VP choice in AZ.

I am strongly against challenging DEM incumbents but I would support Congressman Gallegos if he challenged her in a primary.

[Demsrule86]

33. We can't be sure to win back her seat so no she will not be the nominee... and she is too

new.

[jcgoldie]

44. Ugh! :(

Whats wrong, Joe Manchin's too busy?