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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm seeing a lot of people rant recently about Trump "stealing the election"....lighten up
This election is dependent on Democrats holding the Clinton States and winning back PA, WI and MI, -OR- substituting them with alternative battleground States.
First - Trump can't "cancel the election" because it's not a Federal Election. It's 51 State Elections.
PA, WI and MI are controlled by Democrats. They won't be cancelling the election. They also won't be doing voter purges or "losing votes". NC, a major pickup opportunity is also controlled by Democrats.
Consider as well that Republicans had the same opportunity to "steal" elections in 2018. Look at what happened.
Not saying Republicans won't try to cheat, but adopting a doomsday philosophy isn't helpful.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)Stealing the election isnt the same thing as cancelling the election. I believe elections have been stolen multiple times. And recently.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)When Nixon's side started to look into those voting machines dumped into the Chicago River they were warned that another investigation into Republicans in Cairo would immediately be started. That could hold up Illinois' final count until forever.
https://www.salon.com/2016/02/14/election_fraud_chicago_style_illinois_decades_old_notoriety_for_election_corruption_is_legendary/
And down South, finding ways to screw with those paper ballots was a full time job. The easiest thing was to just make a few other marks on the ballot to disqualify it.
So, what do we do? Just the best we can.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)And consider that Chicago had Mayor Daily. This years we have GOP governors in the states we need. We have depression level unemployment and a pandemic that has killed over 90,000 Americans. There is no legitimate reason for gloom and doom.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)no matter what we do. So, instead of whining, just prepare for it, and do what we can.
It is axiomatic that the criminal, the risktaker, has a lot more to gain, and more incentive, than the victim.
Sometimes, we actually win. Even better, the bad guys overplay their hands and go down.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)confidence. Such posts are not useful and dampen enthusiasm...spreading a sort of hopelessness.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)stop...you dampen enthusiasm and suppress the vote with this sort of thing.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)What I am saying is to NOT to just accept that the election will not be stolen. We must keep putting pressure on to ensure that. How is what I said dampening enthusiasm? My point was the OP was doing that!
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)And I don't believe this election will be stolen. But harping on lends an air f hopelessness and why bother...which I feel is the wrong message. Trump was desperate to win in 18 and 19 but we still won.
BannonsLiver
(16,370 posts)SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)This forum is riddled with people telling others what to do. It gets completely annoying constantly reading other peoples put downs and opinions of what everyone else should be doing. I think that there is no telling what this nutcase will do and what lengths the GOP will go to to protect him. Why be down on people feeling the need to be vigilant of their tricks?
And also I am sorry but this idea that we have democratic governors so its all good seems pretty weak to me. We still need to be fighting for things to be right in red states as well or we will never expand beyond the slim margin of winning the WH and congress every election.
I agree that defeatism is bad but this blanket statement of what people should be concerned about and telling people to lighten up with their concerns regarding a political party and an administration that seem to be breaking all the norms (and heck even laws) and ignoring the constitution tells me that people are right to be on watch.
BannonsLiver
(16,370 posts)But I maintain, as do others, that a constant barrage of telling people the system is rigged, their vote doesnt count and Trump wont leave anyway is not conducive to winning elections. Eventually some people, less political than those found on DU, will start to believe it and just stay home.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,370 posts)You should probably ask them.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)upsetting and should not be on this site.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)and people should stop with the negative posts...IE lighten up. We are winning in the states we need...so I celebrate this and it encourages me to work harder. What are you doing in order to win...you know you can phone bank right now...sign up on Biden's website. Also, you can donate every amount no matter how small helps. That is what we can do not spread doom and gloom but roll up our sleeves and work.
tinrobot
(10,895 posts)The "it will be stolen anyways" trope just demoralizes people and suppresses the vote.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)candidate. Stop. Don't help Trump. Our lives depend on beating Trump.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... and looking at how we can get over that is worth the discussion.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)We need every state we can get and be pushing for more.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)Maybe I am misunderstand your entire thought process here.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)We are leading in all and they have Democratic governors...sure I want more states...and some look really good. But those are the most important and most likely to go our way as we lost all of them in 16 by a tiny amount.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)I am sorry but if we do not take the opportunity to start making in roads in red states when we have possibly the worst president in history then we are missing a HUGE opportunity. thinking only of working for those few states is what mires us in these emergency situations. Republicans are NOT thinking of just winning their typical states. They have been pushing into blue states like Minnesota for a LONG time and they have come dangerously close to winning here.
We need to stop playing defensively and start getting on the offensive.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,431 posts)Trumpy-boy can manufacture a national emergency that would "necessitate" a postponed or cancelled election based on national security grounds.
Trumpy-boy has manufactured a national emergency before, both with the "wall" and with sales of arms to Saudi Arabia. He can do it again. He has no limits. Do not underestimate his treachery.
Another issue is breaching otherwise secure databases for election tabulating. The Russians have been working on hacking all of the US' systems for years. And domestically, so has Parscale. Manipulating election data without leaving tracks, for both Parscale and the Russians, would be the Holy Grail of hacking. There's a reason that folks want paper ballots and hand counting. For Russians and Republicans, nothing is sacred.
brooklynite
(94,525 posts)MousePlayingDaffodil
(748 posts)Absent his being reelected, Trump's term as President automatically ends at noon, January 20, 2021. So how does "canceling" or "postponing" the election help him?
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)with this sort of thing. Please stop.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)obamanut2012
(26,069 posts)Stop carrying its water.
BannonsLiver
(16,370 posts)It does NOT help. You may think it does in some way, but it doesnt.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Saying Biden will lose to Trump on this forum that it is hopeless is a form of not supporting Democrats.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)no_hypocrisy
(46,094 posts)on January 20, 2021.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)mobeau69
(11,144 posts)And that will be icing on the cake.
Iwasthere
(3,159 posts)So many hands proudly displaying the finger. I thought, IT'S OVER! So happy. It'll be different this time though. The healing and repair will take many years.
not_the_one
(2,227 posts)He can't "steal" the election? Really?
Tell that to Vlad's gang, who did quite well last time making sure that the 3 right states won the EC with 70,000 votes, which negated an almost 3,000,000 popular vote win. Sorry, I don't believe in THOSE TYPES of ELECTION COINCIDENCES. Vlad has been honing those skills for almost four years. You don't think he has made vast improvements in their efficiency?
He can't postpone or cancel the election? Really?
As you state, they are STATE elections, NOT federal. All he needs is for ONE state to postpone or cancel. That would make the election invalid. And you know he would ride THAT horse for all it is worth. States with republican controlled legislatures would be lining up to "postpone or cancel". It could easily be 10 or 15 states refusing. WHO IS GOING TO MAKE THEM?
And you really think he will voluntarily leave in that situation? WHO IS GOING TO MAKE HIM? No one. There is no one to replace him. We will have a constitutional crisis like has never been imagined.
And WE are expected to just sit back and take it? I don't think so. There will be assassinations on both sides. There will be armed fighting. The economy will fail, we will REALLY have food shortages. Those who don't have will take from those that do. And WE ALL HAVE GUNS. (If you don't, you may really want to reconsider that option...)
And from there things are REALLY going to go down hill.
No. Lightening up is the LAST thing we should do.
We can all sit back and trust that the blue tsunami will be ALLOWED to take place. THAT makes me VERY afraid. Our naivete frequently is our worst enemy. We will see how many Americans think our experiment was worth it, or is it dead?
Or are we all going to voluntarily become a Russian state? With the turd in power, that is not too hard to believe.
edit in italics
Budi
(15,325 posts)It took decades of manipulation & foreign assistance to seat Trump & all the power at his disposal.
They simply get rid of any law/rule that threatens their position.
They don't plan on giving any of it up.
It is totally on us as US citizens in Nov, and the blockades they are building to stop us are already being put in place.
May we prevail in the end.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)There is no reason that we should not be mindful of these things. Frankly I am appalled that I am being told to lighten up here on this forum.
mcar
(42,307 posts)tinrobot
(10,895 posts)Because that's what your post sounds like. All I got out of it was that Putin is all-powerful and he'll fix the elections up good. So, yeah, perhaps we should fight back, but... but... we're actually gonna lose.
Nope. I call BS. We're NOT going to lose. We have the power.
There are more people on our side and people at large support our policies. We need to act like it, speak truth to power and not back down. People get behind winners and those who project the illusion of power. Moaning about all the things that could go wrong runs counter to that.
Yes, there are may pitfalls and I'm not saying we shouldn't ignore them. But going on and on about the possible catastrophes and how to avoid them is defeatist. It does not help us.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)work the election...try some positive thinking is my advice. You help no one with the post I am answering...except maybe Trump.
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)Republicans have held majorities in our state Senate and House since 2010.
However, we do have a Democrat as Governor.
dragonlady
(3,577 posts)Democratic governor, Republican legislature and majority of the Supreme Court.
brooklynite
(94,525 posts)Cha
(297,196 posts)SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)I guess thats the only real reply I should have posted. Done with these stupid posts telling everyone else how to feel and what to worry about.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)It isnt a discussion when others dictate what we have to do and how people should feel and be told to lighten up.
American Democracy at stake, the constitution in peril. But hey fuck it we have some Democratic governors so chill the fuck out. How is that working for Evers in Wisconsin.
questionseverything
(9,654 posts)MORE
Voting machines in more than one-third of all Detroit precincts registered more votes than they should have during last months presidential election, according to Wayne County records prepared at the request of The Detroit News.
Detailed reports from the office of Wayne County Clerk Cathy Garrett show optical scanners at 248 of the citys 662 precincts, or 37 percent, tabulated more ballots than the number of voters tallied by workers in the poll books. Voting irregularities in Detroit have spurred plans for an audit by Michigan Secretary of State Ruth Johnsons office, Elections Director Chris Thomas said Monday.
Detroits voting irregularities spur state audit
The Detroit precincts are among those that couldnt be counted during a statewide presidential recount that began last week and ended Friday following a decision by the Michigan Supreme Court.
Democrat Hillary Clinton overwhelmingly prevailed in Detroit and Wayne County. But Republican President-elect Donald Trump won Michigan by 10,704 votes or 47.5 percent to 47.3 percent.
////////////////////////////////////////
trump "won" in 2016 with Michigan turning in numbers that were physically impossible....1/3 of Detroit precincts reported more votes than voters...one reason this could happen is there was a program on the software with a predetermined result...and get this in mich it is illegal to recount precincts like that, the first result has got to stand so even tho everyone realizes what was reported is not possible, trump still received the "win" for that state
//////////////////////////////////////
it is not defeatism to know what we are up against and plan to combat it, don't let anyone convince you otherwise
to overcome the rig we need overwhelming numbers
https://www.countable.us/articles/5863-evidence-shows-hackers-changed-votes-2016-election-admit-michael-harriot-root
obamanut2012
(26,069 posts)kacekwl
(7,016 posts)I have seen the depths Republican traitors will go to go "win" . So until see at least 80% voter turnout then I won't lighten up.
questionseverything
(9,654 posts)the best programmer "controls" what we "see" as the results
Biden needs to count the precincts ahead of time, like the Obama campaign did
and if he " loses" he must not accept the lose without fighting for truth and transparency, if it takes going to court to get proper recounts then that is what he needs to do and we all need to support that
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Russia and the Republicans and others. They and we all know the Republicans can no longer win national elections without stealing them. And they have been working on stealing this one for years.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Nor does it mean i don't understand the many ways they will try to suppress the vote or outright cheat if they can get away with it. We must all be aware of that and so must all campaigns.
What it DOES mean is that any talk of "they're going to steal the election" and "they've already got the results ready to go and in place" (that kind of stuff) needs to stop. Now. That has no other result except to discourage people from voting and anyone pushing that is suspect. The results from Wisconsin in the supreme court race there showed what turnout can do and the results from the recent california special election showed what a lack of it will do.
Making people aware of the roadblocks Republicans will put in the way is a good thing. Forecasting that the results are already fixed is not... and anyone doing it has an agenda that is not trying to help us rid ourselves of the Republican scourge.
EndlessWire
(6,526 posts)understanding what can happen if you don't vote against Trump and the GOP.
It isn't fair to We The People to be lulled into complacency by telling them that there won't be anything that Trump can do to hold power. What a dismay we had when we watched Hillary lose in 2016. We were not prepared for that.
This election, we will understand what Trump is doing, because we are discussing it before hand. People normally have a lag time between "WTF" and "Now what are we gonna do?" Look how fast Trump moved in his first year. It was amazing when almost every day he EO'd his way to what he personally wanted, which was oligarch power behind him. He dished it out in spades.
I don't believe that anyone who cares about their country will be persuaded not to vote just because someone said it "can't happen." Or, we're going to lose, why bother? I think enough of us are absolutely shell-shocked over Trump et al that we will do what we must to get rid of them all. We will not be fooled again.
However, what good is it to tell each other that Trump can't do something because it has not been done before? That's not a place of safety. We will not reach a place of safety until Biden is President and takes over.
I believe that we have all seen how Trump acts, his rants and raves and astounding contempt of the law. This man is a dictator. His personality will not allow him to just say,"Hey I had a good time. See you later." If he loses, he will deny it and head to the stacked SC to pull the election down. Or, he won't permit it to happen in the first place, according to his belief that he will win or not.
This is my opinion, which I am under the impression that DU allows. So, I don't appreciate being told to keep my mouth shut, or to become Pollyanna and spread a false sense of things being right. We are in trouble.
As far as "he can't postpone the election" goes, what makes you think that? His emergency powers arc over all the States, so even if the States want to hold the election, he can simply declare an emergency and invoke his powers. The passage of time to January 21st doesn't mean anything. Then you have to ask, "What will we do now?" We need to know how far we are willing to go to save our country.
We have to understand our military and our police. We have to understand what our neighbors are thinking. We've seen a lot of people haul out their guns and take action based on nothing more than a tweet from this asshole.
I personally think that most of us will just sit back and watch while our country is completely obliterated and turned into Trumplandia. Who here has NOT considered what other country to head out for if Trump wins again? After all, you can't leave this to the last minute.
How do you think the German Jews felt when Hitler did all that? Many of them had to make the decision to leave their country and all their places in the world because they wanted to live, and they had the foresight to extrapolate what would happen to them in the future. So, they did what they had to do.
It does no good to soothe people's raised hackles when common logic can tell them that there is absolutely no truth to the bit about "he can't do it." He CAN do it. He's a man who has studied how to control populations from the most ruthless people the world has ever experienced. All we can do is control our own personal reaction to it and figure out our own best solution.
We are not children. "Everything will be okay" is something you tell your children to get them to sleep at night. It is our duty to keep watch, share information and good ideas just in case something really does go wrong. Yes, we will dance with joy and party hearty when we defeat Trump and the GOP. Then, we can laugh sheepishly and say, "Whew! That was a squeeker!" and go about our business. But, we are not there yet.
Discussion is a good thing. If you read enough, if enough people bring attention to this bit or that bit, a picture emerges. Without this stew pot of information, even if it is not as solid as some would like, we wouldn't know a damned thing. And, that's what they want. That's why one of the very first things that dictators go after is the free press of the country they are taking over.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)posting misleading information.
EndlessWire
(6,526 posts)think outside the box:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/if-trump-declares-martial-law-due-to-coronavirus-can-he-suspend-the-election/
plus they can screw with the dates the Electors are due.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)toss unfavorable results is what worries me.
In addition to the GOP refusing to spend money on securing our elections and strengthening vote by mail.
And putin is still in the picture.
Brainfodder
(6,423 posts)Or in 4 years have enough new ignorant assholes passed the minimum voting age to keep the braggart buffoon in there?
I'm thinking every family affected by C-19 in the U.S.A. aint gonna be none pleased about this jackass and his attempts to profit off the pandemic, at all!