How do we talk about rightwing attacks on this site without getting flagged?

[GriffenRamsey]

The path these attacks take now is to brew among subgroups on facebook, like african Americans, or bernie supporters for example, when they find a formula that works there, they roll it out widely buy facebook ads, and push it into the news. They do this knowing it has "legs" among the voters they want to peel away from Democratic Party. I happen to be in a position to see these early and think early warning means better prepared.

Unfortunately, those links get flagged here because they must, by necessity, describe the attack.

The Tara Reade story, for example, circled in a stealth facebook campaign for a month before the Intercept picked it up and made it into a mainstream story. It didn't seem to break widely here until Chris Hays covered it, almost three months later.

So how can I safely post a heads-up about these campaigns? Should there be a safe research forum or something? I really think our survival might depend on seeing the warning signs of a rightwing massacre before they pull out the machetes and go after us Rwanda style. They are already doing that with masks. There was another shooting at a Waffle House today. The mask shootings are not based on reality. It is pure disinformation but it is killing people.

So do we engage with the reality of how these attacks work or just wait and react when they are big news?

[AllaN01Bear]

1. ive hit trash this thread button a number of times whilst on d.

[SCantiGOP]

25. I use the Trash button a lot

I really hate misleading, clickbait titles like "This" or "Boom," so I will open those, hit Trash and close them out.
A quiet protest that keeps me from being a jerk and arguing with my comrades here.

[rampartc]

2. we have the "propaganda debunking" group

i think we need more of this, without getting flagged for "spreading rw propaganda."

[Demsrule86]

4. No, that is just a means to attack the nominee...and as 16 clearly showed we don't need that shit.

[Demsrule86]

3. You don't. Do not spread right wing shit on this site.

That is my advice.

[Hortensis]

9. :) This.

[Demsrule86]

28. Hi Hortensis!

How are you? And thank you.

[Hortensis]

33. Hi, Dems! Bemused by strange times and notions.

Trying to keep an open mind, though. Maybe DU should also have a subforum where those inclined can trade recipes for hydroxychloroquine and theories of what Hillary does with the little bodies.

[Demsrule86]

34. Oh God...I almost spit my diet soda all over my keyboard...

[Tipperary]

18. Yes, this.

I give not one shit for the nonsense so many seem to love to wallow in on Facebook. I distrust the guise of “bringing it here in order to debunk.”

[Demsrule86]

29. Some who want to bring it here want to attack our nominee.

I have no idea why.

[MineralMan]

5. Very carefully, so it doesn't look like you're spreading such stories

here. DUers are aware of right-wing crap that is out there, on Facebook and everywhere else. It is very, very rare that something new gets circulated by the right-wingers. When that happens, we know about that quickly, as well.

Posting links from right-wing sources always looks suspicious to many people here. If the story itself is posted as well, it looks even more suspicious, and someone is likely to assume that the poster is just trying to spread the story.

So, you have to be very careful with stuff like that.

[obamanut2012]

6. Just do not post or link RW propo

It is that simple. You are not serving Biden or the people in any way by posting their lies. Period.

And, no, we knew about the Tara Reade thing loooooooong before Chris Hayes. Maybe you didn't, but most of us did.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

7. This is going to be the dirtiest campaigns in history...

Trump is already starting with the Obamagate crap. He cannot be embarrassed he cannot be shut up. The disinformation is flowing freely now.

We must see it, study, it debunk, it. If we fail to properly address this Carl Rove wins again!

I believe Griffin has an idea of worth...it should be taken to the administers. Could be run somewhat like the primary posts...fair warnings...no cross posting to GD. Let them work out the “security” of the group.

[Locrian]

11. totally agree....

put it in a separate section or something so if you don't want to see it and prefer just the "good" stuff.
But ignoring it and not being able to respond / debunk it is not smart strategy.

I come her for information -which includes the back and forth discussion - it's much easier to be able to argue with someone vs just reading a piece if you see the back and forth.

If we cant see work that's been done to debunk - I think it's a great loss of opportunity.

[Demsrule86]

30. Absolutely not.

[Hortensis]

32. :) Between no bringing in RW content (creating a place where

it can be safe from removal no less!) and no extremist content, pretty sure this will remain "absolutely not."

Not sure what Griffin imagines we do here, or should, but DU's not some kind of LW QAnon.

[Demsrule86]

35. No, I don't. And it violates TOS which was carefully thought out and works.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

36. Ok...you convinced me...I'm wrong...sorry

[Demsrule86]

38. Hey, I don't require agreement...I enjoy the argument.

[Croney]

8. I have learned that many members of DU (not me)

know things... lots of things...most of the things.

For that reason I never run here with a "Look at the thing I know!" kind of post.

[Jamastiene]

10. It depends on how you post it.

Don't link to the right wing site. You can mention details you know and information you know without linking to a right wing site. That is probably the biggest thing. It is a mistake that can happen at times with so many less known news sites out there.

Maybe it would not hurt to ask this question to admins, because to be able to research and debunk lies before they hit mainstream news is not a bad idea. I hear all kinds of crazy conspiracies where I live from right wingers. I mention they said it on here so others will know what lies are running in rw circles, but never link to anything online, because that just would give them more views and more "legs" to run with lies against Democrats online.

I like the idea of researching and debunking lies against the Democratic Party ahead of time before it becomes mainstream news. I think people would be surprised at how much that can hurt our party, when those lies are told against us in mainstream news.

[Hearthrob]

15. Debunking?

Are there traills from a posting here that are being shared to a wider audience? Even though it's informative it seems more of an aggregater .

[Mosby]

20. OP has been archived by google, usually takes less than 1/2 hour

https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&client=ms-android-verizon&biw=360&bih=612&sxsrf=ALeKk02t98PdOYUJtLDg9rftNtcDHDuVGw%3A1590000515923&ei=g3vFXojvN6yw0PEP7oq3mAM&q=democratic+underground+how+do+we+talk+about+rightwing+attacks+on+this+site+without+getting+flagged%3F&oq=democratic+underground+how+do+we+talk+about+rightwing+attacks+on+this+site+without+getting+flagged%3F&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBAgeEAo6BAgjECc6BwgjELACECdQyidYm19g3mdoAHAAeACAAfQCiAG-IJIBCDEuMTcuNC4ymAEAoAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

[Demsrule86]

39. Invariably, some posters will suggest it might be true...there are always such

posters...so it gets passed around with an 'even DU thinks it has merit'. And as a result is much more damaging. So no to allowing this at DU IMHO.

[GriffenRamsey]

12. OK, sounds like this is not the place to mount and active defense against that shit.

Right now they are running a lot of trial balloons. This is the count since Monday:

Campaigns this week: 23
Penetration: 2,456,926 Facebook Users
K/qxPen score: .4

About half of them concern Biden's 1988 campaign. Look for it to become the next big thing. It has velocity. They will make a bigger purchase soon.

I'm looking for the best counter argument to promote. I'll look elsewhere for suggestions.

[Hortensis]

13. Lol. As said, start by not getting taken for the "concern trolls" who come

to spread hostile propaganda.

Anyway, if any of us know something, it's not exactly a secret. And for sure no one ever "needs to tell" our party or candidates anything because we know nothing they don't already know far, far more about. Finally getting a glimpse inside it's all over is what makes the books some eventually write so fat and juicy.

Btw, it's not just obviously dishonest and hostile articles you need to learn to watch for. Many seemingly benign articles are actually designed to be propaganda delivery vehicles, and DUers are very good at recognizing the pernicious messages hidden in them. People here are also not fooled by the laundering of propaganda through the many supposedly "respectable" sources that are actually working to defeat Democrats.

[fleur-de-lisa]

14. Unfortunately, you really can't as a poster with a low count.

Anyone with a low number of posts is automatically suspicious because of the number of right wing trolls who continuously try to infiltrate DU.

It sucks, but that's the truth.

Those who build up their post count (over a number of years) will eventually gain trust and be able to post such articles. Even then it has to be done delicately, with a preface as to the source.

I wouldn't worry about DU or other Democrats being blind-sided with attacks from the republicans. There are so many DUers who have many other great sources besides DU. We are a very informed group, which is why I come here.

[Demsrule86]

40. I wouldn't bet on that first of all...And secondly, I have never seen any hit brought

here that I didn't already know about and had rebutted on Twitter or what have you which is where the rebuttals belong.

[hunter]

16. Tell the people bringing it to you to fuck off.

Don't bring it here.

That is my advice.

[Brainfodder]

17. I don't know what the problem actually is, point out the BS, call them assholes+, it's all good?

Been working for me for a year?

[Mosby]

19. You dont.

Even your OP is a violation.

Welcome to DU.

[Victor_c3]

21. I've run into the same thing many times

I try to ask for help debunking some of the right wing bullshit, but the threads get locked on me.

Some people are just too anal about some of the rules here. It’s not like I’m trying to spread the right wing crap - I just want help to debunk it!

[Demsrule86]

41. No you bring it here and that spreads it.

[Victor_c3]

42. It only spreads if there is no good retort to it

And if there aren’t any good ways to bring it down, then maybe it is a valid point. Is that what we’re afraid of?

I like to think that Democrats aren’t as delusional as republicans. However, if we ignore their shit and fail to come up with good counterpoints, then we are living in our own bubble - just like republicans do in their fox news bubble.

We need to confront their shit, not ignore it and hope it goes away. That clearly hasn’t worked out very well for us in the last 20+ years since fox news showed up.

[The Magistrate]

22. This Is The Rule, Sir

"Don't peddle right-wing talking points, smears, or sources. Do not post right-wing talking points or smears. Do not post content sourced from right-wing publications, authors, or pundits. Exceptions are permitted if you provide a clear reason for doing so that is consistent with the values of this website.

"Why we have this rule: News media and the Internet are already awash with conservative propagandists attacking our candidates and our values -- we're not interested in providing them with another outlet. We understand that many of our members might hold some conservative viewpoints on isolated issues, but nobody here should be parroting hateful garbage from the RNC, the NRA, or the Family Research Council. Forum members should expect that the only time they'll have to read a right-wing smear or an article from Breitbart is when someone is pointing and laughing at it."


It is not that hard. Make clear you do not believe the smears, and include positive commentary on the person attacked. The 'concern troll' is a real thing, and presenting content like this with an air of 'OMG this is just going to destroy us!' not only will but ought to get a poster in some trouble.

[eleny]

23. A snag is an October Surprise that comes too late

They might test those waters a few months ahead but I don't know for sure about that. Testing waters defeats the surprise attack. Early voters could be swayed by those previews. So it's tough to know how to handle things when DU rules could get you bounced for spreading right wing memes.

I suppose that gotv efforts are always a good use of our energy. It's usually the best way to win any election.

[Kaleva]

24. Nobody here is going to vote for Trump because of RW attacks taking place at other sites.

Your comment:

"So do we engage with the reality of how these attacks work or just wait and react when they are big news?"

We'll respond like always by voting Blue No Matter Who

[GriffenRamsey]

26. Hey, I cannot seem to figure out how to delete my account.

Does anyone know how?

[hunter]

27. Hah. You should see some of my most embarrassing internet posts!

Including a few naked pics.

They live forever. I don't tell people how to find internet stuff that embarrasses me but I don't deny it either. Some of my usenet stuff was really messed up.

I first logged onto the internet in 1979. I've been on DU since 2002 and in that time I've posted quite a few things here that I now find highly embarrassing or naive. (But not the naked pics.)

The first post I had hidden here was in some sort of religious warfare. The Irish Catholic in me was strong that day. There's not a lot of that, and the Pacifists are worse. What a bunch of judgmental assholes they are.

If you choose to stick around remember that pride is a thing like skin that can be scarred without debilitating injury. Wear your scars and tats with pride.

[Cha]

37. Delete your account or your OP?

There's a self delete at the bottom of the text.

Don't delete your account just 'cause of this.

[peggysue2]

31. I think it's all about how you frame the information

Debunking/exposing nascent memes or trial balloons isn't a bad idea at all. Crushing these sort of things in the crib is a way to fight the smears that are being ginned up. The Giant Meat Grinder is rolled out every election year. It is what it is. We saw the same thing happen with the Pizzagate scandal, a complete, absolutely idiotic fiction that could have ended up in real tragedy. The people spreading these memes do not care, all they want to do is muddy the water and push people into a blind rage. In 2016 they were pretty damn successful, spreading doubt and confusion across social platforms.

The one thing we have going for us in 2020 is this approach is no longer new. We've seen this picture show before and we know that we absolutely need to bat down ridiculous stories/narratives immediately. You cannot let a narrative take root.

A good example was the Christine O'Donnell story, the one about her niece accusing Biden of loutish behavior at a Gridiron dinner. That was immediately defused; the actors were sloppy in the rollout and obviously hadn't done their homework. The Tara Reade narrative took longer but it too has been debunked because of inconsistency and massive contradictions.

If there's a trick to any of this, it's exposing empty accusations early on, refusing them any oxygen. The closer we get to the election, the more critical quick exposure/flattening becomes.

I wouldn't give up on the idea. Just play around with how you present the material so you don't come off as an odious concern troll.