So Michael Moore is on MSNBC complaining about climate change

[Trumpocalypse]

Mr. Moore do you know what would have helped fight climate change? If you had supported Al Gore 20 years ago instead of helping Ralph Nader torpedo the Gore campaign. If Gore was President 20 years ago we might be making some progress now.

[chillfactor]

1. I like Ari

but turned to my mute button when Moore came on

[lkinwi]

2. My thoughts exactly.

I have no time for Nader or Stein supporters.

[iluvtennis]

21. + 1. nt

[la-trucker]

3. MM shouldn't be polluting the environment with methane and H2S from his gut

is he cares about climate change.

[Me.]

4. Why Do They Keep Booking Him On MSNBC

and was he asked for his climate-denying film?

As for Ari, I'm done with him too. He can't stop interrupting guests who are saying something interesting to make one of his childish jokes that are awkward and which none of them get. Further, his questions are so long winded he takes up most of the time in the segment. One guest earlier in the week didn't even get to speak because he ran out of time.

[Cha]

7. 'Cause it's msnbc? Some of those pundit heads

were going after Biden 'cause tara reade. They have no scruples or journalistic integrity.. imo.

[Me.]

9. I Belive That Nicolle, Rachael & Larry Aren't Sloppy

and neither is Brian Williams when it comes to JB. And he seems to, at least temporarily, have gotten over his habit of disparaging Dems.

Aloha Hoa

[Cha]

10. Good for them.. those aren't the ones who

were mentioned in going after Biden 'cause Tara Reade.

Aloha, Me~

[TimeToGo]

15. Yes

I’ve thought the same

[catbyte]

5. He's been a jerk for 35 years. I can't listen to him.

My late significant other, Rick, was very involved in consumer affairs and liberal politics in Michigan since the late 1970s and knew Moore before he became famous. Moore has always been an insufferable gasbag, according to Rick. Now Moore is going around telling everybody that the November 3 election won't happen and everybody is listening to him like he's Nostradamus just because he predicted trump would win in 2016. Just mute him. I do.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. Used to like Moore until he magically became insufferable one day.

On edit:

So he's always been and insufferable gasbag?

[Gore1FL]

13. I chalk shit like this up to "DU is flighty."

Micheal Moore goes on TV to support a cause we all hold dear, but he is attacked because neither Clinton nor Biden was his first choice.

Welcome to DU...

[TreasonousBastard]

16. I'm not quite that cynical, but DU does have it's "moments"...

More to the point is that Moore seems to have wandered into the deep end. "Roger and Me was brilliant and got noticed. Since then, he's lost the touch.

[Gore1FL]

18. To a certain degree I agree.

I don't think he has hit public enemy #1 status as many here do.

That's where my cynicism with DU lies. We've begun to embrace the likes of Steve Schmidt, Rick Wilson, George Conway, etc. while dismissing Micheal Moore, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Bernie Sanders, and others on the left.

I submit if we can cut the creators of Trump that much slack, we can do so for people on the left, too.

[Trumpocalypse]

23. No Moore attacks Democrats

Sometimes more than he attacks republicans. If not for people like Moore, Gore would have been President. DU is not flighty to call out his bs which hurts Democrats.

[Gore1FL]

24. Gore would have been president had the counted the vote in Florida.

It's counter productive to complain about people we largely agree with on issues while welcoming faux-prodigal-sons that made Trump possible.

Say what you want about Moore, but I agree with him on way more issues than I do George Conway.

[Trumpocalypse]

28. There would have been no recount in Florida needed if not for Nader

And everyone needs to be called out for their BS or we are hypocrites.

[Gore1FL]

30. There would have been no recount if more people voted at all.

We can come up with a lot of reasons as to how Florida was stolen. I bet more reasons involve members of the Lincoln Project than they do liberal people who want liberal things, just like us. Nader didn't steal Florida. Some anti-Trump Republicans did, though.

As far as calling out BS, let me state very clearly, I am pro-environment and anti-Iraq invasion. Who do I have more in common with, Environmentalists, or the people that supported the invasion of Iraq? Why would I paint fellow environmentalists as an enemy while embracing those that thought an illegal invasion was a good idea? That seems ridiculous to me.

[Trumpocalypse]

31. Nader accepted GOP money

and used it to run lying attack ads against Gore. No Nader didn’t steal Florida but he made it possible for Bush to steal it. And Nader did it with the help of Michael Moore.

Moore regularly attacks Democrats and does so dishonestly. Defending for doing so is disgusting. And this forum is Democratic Underground not Michael Moore Underground. We defend democrats here not a non democrat who lies about real democrats.

[Gore1FL]

32. More to the point, as of late we do so as we laud republicans.

It's kind of weird if you ask me.

It's also kind of weird that this sub-thread is expanding to this many posts. More evidence that we choose our targets oddly around here.

[Trumpocalypse]

34. No we laud people who are supporting democrats

Not those like Moore who attack Democrats.

The only odd thing going on is the defending of someone who attacks Democrats.

[Gore1FL]

35. They aren't supporting Democrats so much as they are opposing Trump.

They didn't mind incompetently managed harmful policies when Bush did them.

I think attacking natural allies on our left and practically fellating the people who got Bush elected, Tried to get Romney and McCain elected, and ultimately set the table for Trump to be odd.

When it all becomes about winning, everyone loses. Perhaps we should consider good policy.

[Trumpocalypse]

40. Natural allies haven't been attacking Democrats for 30 years

Which Moore has been and is still doing.

[Gore1FL]

49. LOL and the guys in the Lincoln project haven't?

There difference of course is that they would support Trump if he acted a little more sanely.

It is weird to come to DU and read arguments as to why we should dismiss the left be more like the Republicans. If you have nothing else, I see no point in driving this further into the ground.

I'll take progressive and liberal over regressive and conservatism any day of the week. You disagree. OK.

[Trumpocalypse]

54. This is about Michael Moore

and no one else. And again I’ll remind you this is Democratic Underground not Michael Moore Underground. We support Democrats here. Not people like Moore who has been attacking Democrats for decades.

[Gore1FL]

55. I'll just watch the goalposts move from the sidelines, then.

Night.

[Trumpocalypse]

70. No it's always been about Michael Moore

and how he’s spent decades attacking Democrats.

[Gore1FL]

75. This sub-thread has been about The contrast with the Lincoln Project

It has been since post 18 which occurred on Fri May 22, 2020, 08:07 PM (CDT). You first responded to this sub-thread on Fri May 22, 2020, 08:48 PM to that very post.

So, no this sub-thread hasn't always been about Moore. It already wasn't you first contributed to it.

Good night!

[Trumpocalypse]

102. The thread has always been about Moore.

[SlogginThroughIt]

72. Uhhh you are the one moving the goalposts here.

Conversation was about Moore and you tried to bring the Lincoln Project into it.

[Gore1FL]

74. It's been the topic of this sub-thread for some time starting with post 18.

Thanks, though.

[betsuni]

76. Those Republicans are inspired by their hatred of Trump to vote for Biden.

I keep hearing how important it is to be inspired in order to do our civic duty and vote for the people who decide the laws that affect our lives. Well, they're inspired! They have the same immediate goal as Democrats, to prevent more serious damage to the country. That's not "lauding" Republicans.

Moore complains all the time about not being inspired, that Democrats aren't progressive, claims the 2016 primary was rigged and that "the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump is." It's not true and inspires civic apathy, cynicism, and ignorance. Anyone, from any party, who does this isn't helping. Anyone, from any party, who votes for the Democratic nominee is.

[Gore1FL]

77. When this is over, they will go back to being Republicans wanting tax cuts and deregulation.

Moore will still want clean water for Flint, MI and reasonable gun control laws.

Whose views are more like mine?

[JI7]

80. Michael Moore blames Obama for Flint Water Crisis. Be can claim anything here wants

but his actions are to continually attack Democrats.

[Gore1FL]

83. Calling on Democrats to live up to our espoused values isn't attacking.

Democrats have been rolling over for the GOP for decades. Seeing it defended on DU is a newer phenomena.

[betsuni]

81. When this is over, both Republicans and Moore will return to complaining about how bad Democrats are

[Gore1FL]

82. Either way, one will give a shit about the right things. nt

[betsuni]

84. The Democratic Party gives a shit about the right things.

Hillary Clinton was the first candidate in the last election to go to Flint, Michigan, and work with the local government there on the water problem, then talked about it on TV. For example. Moore could have helped her.

[Gore1FL]

88. We do. We could do better though and it isn;t an attack to say so.

What is an attack is abandoning those values in 2020 because of Trump. I am not going to embrace republicanism to beat him.

[betsuni]

90. Nobody is "embracing Republicanism."

That doesn't even mean anything.

[Gore1FL]

91. Yeah, people are applauding Republican operatives.

At the same time they are trashing liberals. Don't gaslight me. I've been at DU a long time.

[betsuni]

94. Trashing liberals?

Nobody who says Democrats are a greater roadblock to progress than Trump is a liberal. An idiot, maybe, but not liberal.

[Hortensis]

99. No, President Obama did NOT tell Flint parents

to feed their children poison water.

Repeating truth won't displace Moore's well-planted lies, this one repeated with every viewing of that documentary, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't, and in the process remind those who should be aware of his years of malice, dishonesty, hypocrisy...sabotage.

[JI7]

85. Moore doesn't pay those he hires to do work. He is a fraud

[Hortensis]

101. Huh? Deflection from BIG TRUTH to anti-DU smear?

Why? When truth is a problem to be rejected and suppressed, shouldn't we rethink?

How about starting by admitting that Nader sabotaged action he claimed to believe in, and then explain why you believe he was doing...a good thing? Or whatever?

[Gore1FL]

103. Deflection?

I've been talking about the same thing since post 18.

If you are going to get involved in this useless exchange, perhaps it would make sense for you first to rad the sub-thread. Why anyone wants to persists in this is beyond me. It's hard to "smear" DU by describing exactly what is going on in this thread. f you want to praise Republicans and smear liberalism, too, feel free; but don't include me in it. I come here to post with liberals.

[myohmy2]

71. I totally agree...

"As far as calling out BS, let me state very clearly, I am pro-environment and anti-Iraq invasion. Who do I have more in common with, Environmentalists, or the people that supported the invasion of Iraq? Why would I paint fellow environmentalists as an enemy while embracing those that thought an illegal invasion was a good idea? That seems ridiculous to me."

Thank you.

...

[TexasBushwhacker]

45. Florida wouldn't have mattered if Gore had won his home state n/t

[Gore1FL]

47. Or NH, for that matter.

Regardless, I am not prone to holding the people who stole Florida in high esteem just because 20 years later some regret the monster they created.

[JI7]

62. Tennessee is a Right Wing State . It's fucking dishonest and ignorant to claim things were as simple

as winning a home state when that fucking home state is a right wing state.

[TexasBushwhacker]

73. And he was its Senator for 8 years

Arkansas is a right wing state, but Bill Clinton still won it because he was their native son. In fact, Clinton won Tennessee in '92 and '96.

[JI7]

79. They have become more right wing . there use to be democratic senators

many southern states .

[BannonsLiver]

36. LOL

You must have missed the part where he shit all over President Obama for YEARS.

But yeah, it’s about the primary.

[Gore1FL]

38. I prefer him to the group of Republicans that have become DU heros.

Define "shit all over" and provide examples. Is Obama and all of his actions as president beyond reproach?

[BannonsLiver]

42. Oh, just bigoted shit like this

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/michael-moore-slams-obama-history-731563


"OK, not a bad accomplishment, but that's it," the director said. "That's it, Mr. Obama. 100 years from now: 'He was the first black American that got elected president.' And that's it. Eight years of your life and that's what people are going to remember. Boy, I got a feeling, knowing you, that — you'd probably wish you were remembered for a few other things, a few other things you could've done."


Which I’m sure you will dismiss, say was taken out of context etc.

And yes, his admin was pretty close to perfect as presidencies go. I know some ideological purists have a different view. I do not care.

Finally, and as always, Michael Moore can go fuck himself.

[Gore1FL]

48. So it is bigoted to suggest Obama might have done more with his two terms?

I would argue he sacrificed too much to compromise with people who where never going to join him. I guess that makes me a bigot in your eyes?

[BannonsLiver]

50. Saying he's only notable because he was black IS bigoted

That IS what Moore said, your attempts at deflection aside.

I can’t answer your question without more info. Do you believe President Obama is only notable because he’s black, as Moore does?

[Gore1FL]

51. I think he could have done better.

I think he may be lost in history because he missed a chance at being more transformative. It may be from a cursory overview he it may be that the major thing he is known for is being the first black president. It also depends a lot on what the Trump presendecy does to the Obama legacy. I can't soothsay the future as my crystal ball broke. It's not racist to recognize that possibility.

In any event, I have more in common with Micheal Moore and Barack Obama that I do with George Conway and Steve Schmidt.

[BannonsLiver]

52. So you're not going to answer the question?

No worries. I think I get the idea.

[Gore1FL]

53. I answered it the way it needed to be answered:

Consistent to my argument.

A lot of presidencies get lost in history. It's certainly notable that Barack Obama is going to be remembered for that. What other part of his legacy dominates the historical record is unknowable.

What part of Obama's legacy do you think will be remembered in 100 years? Please *be specific* and *state why*, a century later, it will be notable to schoolchildren as a notable mention.

I look forward to your scholarly answer.

[JI7]

63. Yes, it's bigoted to blame Obama and ignore the Racist White Trash

that did all they could to stop Obama and Democrats from doing anything.

[Gore1FL]

65. I suspect it depends on what you are casting blame for. nt

[JI7]

56. Michael Moore does more to help Republicans win than those Anti Trump former Republicans

[Gore1FL]

59. Moore did more in 2008 than say Steve Schmidt?

LOL...

DU is definitely not the site I joined in 2001.

[JI7]

60. I'm talking about right now. Steve isn't claiming to have supported democrats in 2008

or before.

Michael Moore is a phony self promoting grifter . He doesn't pay contractors. That's pretty sleazy .

[Gore1FL]

66. Steve Schmidt has bad ideas. nt

[JI7]

67. His opposition to Trump is not a bad idea and that's the only thing he is doing these days

Schmidt doesn't claim to have been a democrat or liberal while Moore does claim it yet Moore did all he could to help republicans.

I find that sleazy along with his refusing to pay people he hires .

[Gore1FL]

68. McCain/Palin is worse than Moore

Goodnight.

[JI7]

69. lol, pretty low standards. Moore worked to defeat Gore while claiming to support

liberal causes. people can claim to be anything but i look at their actions such as Moore's racist attacks on Obama and doing all he could to help Bush beat Gore.

and then the refusal to pay those that do work for him .

pretty bad as Palin and trump.

[Gore1FL]

86. I don't support tax cuts for the rich, deregulation, privatization, etc.

Frankly I am done reading you and others praising those who do because for once in tier life they made a good political choice.

If you want to praise Republicans on a Democratic site, I guess you apparently can. Please refrain in doing it around me, though; unlike the GOP, I don't plan to abandon every value I hold dear because of Trump.

[JI7]

87. Moore is a fraud who doesn't pay those he hires to do work

[Gore1FL]

89. So bother him about it instead of me?

I would rather speak to someone who shares my liberal ideals.

[JI7]

92. since when is not paying people who do work a liberal value ?

[Gore1FL]

93. Since when is it on topic?

You are posting to post at this point. Please bother someone who values your opinion.

[JI7]

96. Just exposing what a fraud Moore is which is what this thread is about

[Gore1FL]

97. I'd ask for a link, but that would imply two things,

1> Your statement was remotely topical to my point.
2> I cared to continue this.


I would rather imply two entirely different things,
1> I am a liberal who supports liberal viewpoints.
2> I am done posting with you because you are not interesting in having a conversation, but are more interested
in spamming contrarian posts.

Goodnight.

[JI7]

98. This thread is about Moore's actions which do not support anything liberal

[betsuni]

100. We're supposed to get real mad and emotional now and post something ... inflammatory, I guess.

[Celerity]

78. I use DU search a lot, and I often end up on an older version

of the board. The DU of today is schizophrenically different from the board circa 2001 to, say 2009ish. Maybe later. There were a vastly wider range of views expressed back then. I am sure some do not like the change, and some love it.

[live love laugh]

8. I had no idea Michael Moore was so bad--I thought he was a good guy

but then I saw his last movie. He demonized Obama over Flint and I actually changed my views on Obama and so did my Mom who saw the movie with me. But now, seeing what’s said here about him recently, I am rethinking that.

[BannonsLiver]

37. You allowed a dead ender ideologue like MM to change your view about Obama over a movie?

Barack Obama is the best president of your lifetime and unless you are old enough to have been living when FDR was president it’s not even close.

[live love laugh]

43. I never completely abandoned Obama but I admit to

being a bit less enthusiastic due to Moore. But thanks to DU I’ve seen the light. Again. 😊

[BannonsLiver]

44. Good deal

Moore is an ideological purity dead ender. We should want no part of him.

[JI7]

64. Moore doesn't pay people he hires to do work for him so you should never listen to him

[SunSeeker]

11. Bingo. nt

[warmfeet]

12. Al Gore won the election.

The surreal court gave it to lil'shrubby. michael moore is not worth paying attention to.

[relayerbob]

14. Can't stand him

Never actually understood his appeal to others.

[Progressive dog]

17. When I see Moore on TV,

it's for just enough time to pick up the remote and change the channel. He says nothing worth listening to.

[LymphocyteLover]

19. Also his climate change film was BAD

denigrated alternative energy

promoted population control, a problematic solution

was very white people-centered

[hatrack]

33. More to the point, it was straight-up ancient . . .

There were interviews done back in 2009 and 2010 about alt-energy technology and how it could never take the place of coal and natural gas.

Well, things have changed a bit since then. Coal is dead, and natural gas is getting a bit green around the gills.

[coti]

39. Yup. We need to figure out energy storage for renewables. nt

[Chicagogrl1]

20. He's going to be on

Bill Maher tonight. I assume the whining to continue.

[onecaliberal]

22. I just can't with that guy.

[dalton99a]

25. TWELVE years wasted under Bush and Trump.

[JI7]

26. Based on his Recent Film, He disagrees with Gore on Climate Change so it's no surprise

he wanted Gore To lose.

[jcgoldie]

27. He should be fucking ashamed of that movie he just put out on the subject

What an embarrassment.

[Gothmog]

29. I refused to watch Ari because Moore was on

Why does MSNBC keep on putting on this idiot?

[Hortensis]

95. Makes me turn off every time. I won't reward their bringing

him on to sabotage Democrats.

Like election eve 2018 when he was supposedly on late-night to tell young people they needed to get out and vote: first lines out of his mouth were that yes, he knew there was no one to vote for because, slam, slam, slam, slam, slam Democrats and "failed" democracy. But vote anyway.

[BannonsLiver]

46. +10000

He’s a total slob! Somebody needs to get him a memo that the “hasn’t showered for weeks” look is passé.

[JI7]

57. He also doesn't pay those he hires to do work for him

[Captain Zero]

58. Could MM just retire and donate money to Senate Campaigns ?

That's the role I see for him.

[JI7]

61. lol, Moore Donate to democratic campaigns ?

[Hotler]

104. Sweet! A Michael Moore, Raplh Nader bash fest.

Reminds me of old times on DU. Were we still handing out pizzas back then?