Is the term "Karen" a stereotype sexist term?

[Throck]

From pop culture slang it's a new word I've heard/seen used in the past couple of months. My first recollection is the woman and the smart ass cat split picture.

Of the context I've seen it seems implied that it berates a woman who complains. Generally a white woman. Maybe sexist and racist?

I'm interested in the views others might have on it.

[RandiFan1290]

1. No

[jimfields33]

2. It's certainly ran it's course I hope.

[fleur-de-lisa]

3. No.

Yes, it is used to shame white women, but those women were

RACIST

ASSHOLES

TRYING

TO

GET

INNOCENT

BLACK

PEOPLE

ARRESTED

[StarfishSaver]

4. No.

[Miguelito Loveless]

5. No more so, than it's male equivalent "Chad".

[GoneOffShore]

18. Well there are the male counterparts. Brock, Chad, and Walter. As detailed in the link below

https://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/2020/04/caucasity-karen-becky-susan.html

[lastlib]

41. And coming soon to an Internet meme near you:

"DONALD"

[GoneOffShore]

45. That's a completely separate category. Sort of a male Uber Karen.

Along with being 蝙蝠狗屎瘋了
Biānfú gǒu shǐ fēngle

Which I'm told by Google Translate means 'Bat Shit Crazy'.

[Captain Zero]

99. Rob Dryerdeck on MTV Ridiculousness

Uses Karen and Brad for unccordinated and accident prone white people.


I'm sure I did not spell the shows host's last name correctly.

[SoonerPride]

6. No. It is short hand for an entitled example of privilege (which is almost always white privilege)

It is neither sexist nor racist.

[FoxNewsSucks]

7. No

Seems to me it describes a type of person - obnoxious, whiny, entitled, vindictive.

[comradebillyboy]

16. Except it's not used for men who are obnoxious, whiny, entitled, vindictive.

Is there a term like that for men?

[GoneOffShore]

19. Chad, Brock, and Walter.

[comradebillyboy]

22. I've seen Chad memes. Chad is the studly many man. It's

certainly not demeaning. I've never seen Brock or Walter used in a similar manner.

Perhaps you could give me some examples?

[GoneOffShore]

24. Here's a link to the explanation.

https://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/2020/04/caucasity-karen-becky-susan.html

Oh, and 'Chad' always wants to 'talk to the manager'.

[BigDemVoter]

35. Yeah-- I have only seen Chad used-- none of the other names.

[backscatter712]

72. Kyle and Kevin have been used from time to type to dub male "Karens".

[StarfishSaver]

31. "Bubba" isn't used to describe women. 4hat doesn't make it sexist

[comradebillyboy]

49. It's also not all that derogatory. I recall when Clinton-Gore

was called the 'double Bubba ticket' back in '92 by friendly Democrats.

[StarfishSaver]

55. Depends on the context

Last edited Tue May 26, 2020, 07:34 PM - Edit history (1)

It more often than not is used to describe derogatory qualities.

However, "Karen" is used to describe women who behave in a particular way - and there are indeed women who behave exactly as described and such behaviors aren't attributable to men (they also behave badly, but do it differently), so there's nothing sexist about it.

I guess we could describe those women using a non-gender- specific name like "Pat," but that would be dumb.

[mcar]

61. We've seen so many "Karens" over just the past week

I don't even get the OP's question.

[Nay]

50. I've heard Kevin as the counterpart to the Karen. nt

[treestar]

87. Chad is a younger generation name

than Karen. Karen was a very popular name in a particular time, so most Karens are in their 50s or early 60s now.

The equivalent would be "Mark." While I was in school, there was a Mark for every Karen. The two most common names back then.

[lastlib]

42. "DONALD"!!

If "DONALD" isn't "obnoxious, whiny, entitled, vindictive," NOBODY is!!

[treestar]

89. Men are less likely to be labelled those things

for similar behavior.

[CatWoman]

8. why would it be?

I was first introduced to the Karen meme via cat pics.

[hlthe2b]

9. No, but I kinda feel for women named "Karen" who aren't at all like that...

[Skittles]

48. the only Karen I know is black

yes indeed

[Ms. Toad]

75. I actually know quite a few Karens, and none of them act like that. n/t

[Ms. Toad]

85. Read the post I was responding to for context.

Your post is a non-sequitur.

[Ms. Toad]

91. Still missing the context; still a nonsequitur. n/t

[Ms. Toad]

94. Wow.

You enter a conversation between another poster and me about the impact of using Karen as a derogatory label. That's perfectly fine - it's a discussion board.

My post in that sub-thread was a neutral observation that I knew several people named Karen who are nothing like the stereotype "Karen" is being used to call out. I did not comment at all on whether I think using "Karen" is good or bad, or whether I understood what it was intended to designate. I merely responded to someone expressing concern about the impact on real Karens that I know several real Karens. I'm pretty sure I have not in this thread, or any other, weighed in on Whether I believe the use of term is good or bad, or said anything to suggest I don't understand it.

Yet you proceed to preach to me ("Lemme help you out&quot about the use of "Karen" as a derrogatory label. Telling me, in essense, that I needed help because I didn't know what I was talking about. That sounds to me like if falls smack dab in the middle of your own definition of a Karen: "Pointing out how others have failed is an example of a Karen..."

I intentionally kept my tone neutral in responding to you, and chose not to suggest, previously, that you might be engaging in the very behavior you were accusing me of. Now I will, since you have moved past an offensive implication that I was acting like a "Karen" into blatant accusation/attack mode. You might want to examine your own behavior in lecturing to me before you cast aspersions on other's behavior.

[Ms. Toad]

97. It has nothing to do with having the nerve to speak to me.

You're perfectly free to join whatever thread you feel like.

But when you drop in guns blazing don't expect a warm welcome. Your lecture to me was condescending and completely unrelated to the subthread conversation. Don't expect the welcome to get any warmer when you follow your initial lecturing post with not one, but two, name calling posts.

[ahoysrcsm]

100. I always receive such a warm welcome when posting at DU.

Well sometimes anyway.

[treestar]

82. Very common name choice for the late

50s and early 60s.

There were 4 in my second grade class.

[treestar]

86. Yes, using a particular name

that was a very common one in a certain time period makes it a contributor to a stereotype.

No one refers to a "Mark" for men - that name was very common for boys in the same era.

[demmiblue]

10. I don't think so, but I know others here do.

I respect their opinions.

I have to say, though, for every Karen, there is a hella a lot of more Chads.

[cyberswede]

11. The 'Karen' memes and jokes aren't sexist or racist.

The ‘Karen’ memes and jokes aren’t sexist or racist. Let a Karen explain.
By Karen Attiah
April 28, 2020

My name has been everywhere on the Internet in recent weeks, with #Karen trending on Twitter, flooding TikTok and becoming the subject of social media memes. #AndThenKarenSnapped also became a viral trend, describing white women losing their tempers. In the past several years, “Karen” has come to represent a certain archetype of middle-aged white female privilege — or the new n-word, depending on whom you ask. Yup, “Karen” is the new black.


As a millennial black Karen, and a child of immigrants, I find the brouhaha hilarious and twisted. “Karen” is not and will never be an oppressive slur. Anyone who disagrees can take it up with my manag … — I mean, with history.

{snip}

But this is not an exclusively American phenomenon. Cultures from around the world use common names to describe archetypal behaviors. Is “Karen” gendered? Yes, it’s a girl’s name. But sexist? Nah.

In America, white women are often believed and protected at all costs, even at the expense of black lives. In 1955, it was a white woman who falsely accused 14-year-old Emmett Till of whistling at her in Mississippi, which led to him being brutally beaten and killed. Fast-forward to recent years and we still learn about black people being arrested or assaulted because a white woman called the police unnecessarily. Becky and Karen memes and jokes should be understood in this context, part of a long tradition to use humor to try to cope with the realities of white privilege and anti-blackness.

Dehumanizing slurs don’t gain their cruel power overnight. They are part and parcel of generations of violence, erasure and discrimination. Calling the Karen meme the new n-word or asserting that it is a sexist slur only trivializes actual violence and discrimination that destroy lives and communities.

And to invent oppression when none is happening to you? Well, as a Karen, I just have to say — that is peak Karen behavior.

read the rest:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/28/karen-memes-jokes-arent-sexist-or-racist-let-karen-explain/

[Celerity]

79. thank you for injecting logic and reason into this

some of the replies on here make me think of Hamlet

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[nsd]

12. Yes

[Aristus]

13. No.

I subscribe to a number of Facebook pages for current and former tank crewman. We have name for the tank driver who was always getting us stuck in the mud, or turning too fast and throwing a track, or whatever. We call him Karl.

When someone posts a pic of a tank stranded in the middle of a river, or something, everyone chimes in "Thanks a lot, Karl!"

I don't think the Karls of the world mind too much...

[GoneOffShore]

21. Interesting. Your anecdote brought to mind the Warren Zevon song.

Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner

[comradebillyboy]

14. Yes. One rarely sees that sort of tag on men who behave

in a similar manner.

[Tipperary]

15. This.

More fun to hate on women, I guess.

[comradebillyboy]

17. Ever since Eve in the Garden of Eden...

[ancianita]

57. Safer.

Men know (or think they know) that women won't act like men and kick their ass for it.

It depends on the situation and user's intent, of course.

[mcar]

62. Google Chad

[Mariana]

20. There are lots of nice guys named Dick, too. nt.

[chia]

38. This

[USALiberal]

23. Yes! nt

[CaptYossarian]

25. Karens are the spawn of 1980s Yuppies.

I called them Brad and Buffy.

[phylny]

26. Yes. n/t

[Xolodno]

27. Bye Felicia!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[ismnotwasm]

28. Fuck no

[qwlauren35]

29. Becky...

I don't see it as sexist at all.

It is typically women who are calling the police. And it is white women calling the police. And it is white women SAYING that they feel threatened by the presence of a black man who are calling the police.

White men don't do this. White men don't feel threatened enough by black men to call the police for protection. Men SHOOT black men who they think are threatening their way of life. Women (except cops) expect white men to defend them, including shooting and killing the black man who is causing them distress.

If you think this is sexist, look at it from our point of view. Ever since Emmett Till, white women have been accusing black men of all kinds of things, and in response, white men kill the black man.

It's not something white men do. It's something white women do. They play "helpless".

So, we have to fear white men who kill us, and white women who incite white men to kill us.

If we put a name to it, it's just a short-hand for a behavior that ONLY white women do.

[NYC Liberal]

30. Not at all.

[blitzen]

32. Probably yes--and it's stupid. n/t

[sheshe2]

33. No.

[Ilsa]

34. Using a proper name doesn't define and clarify the obnoxious behavior.

If some is a whiner, call them that. If someone is a bitch, call her that. Don't tell me someone is a Rodney and expect me to understand what you're talking about.

[chia]

39. When Rodney becomes a meme, we'll all know what they're talking about (Or most of us will)

It's partly a generational thing. Those who came of age in the era of social media will know. Those who didn't but kind of keep up might know. Those who avoid social media until it gets posted in an online forum might not know, but that's okay.

[Ilsa]

40. So, it's okay to bully the people actually named Rodney

over a social media meme? It's the name given them at birth. How it it any different than making fun of genetic traits, like nearsightedness?

[chia]

47. As someone noted upthread, there are nice guys out there named Dick.

Nowhere in my comment did I say it was okay to bully anyone, I was making an observation about social media. And really, about human nature and culture and generational differences.

[Captain Stern]

36. Nope. Not even a little bit.

The term gets applied to individuals for what they do....not for who they are.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

37. No. When an oppressed population uses slang to describe its oppressor, that's not oppressive.

[BlueTsunami2018]

43. No.

Can we not do this?

[LanternWaste]

44. I think it's simply a...

convenient mechanism for a lot of self-righteous white people who want to pretend a hipster-style oppression that doesn't really exist.

[Bettie]

46. It's shorthand for a certain type of white woman

we all know them...I know a lot of them, am related to a lot of them.

[jmg257]

51. Since it refers to women - I GUESS that could be considered sexist.

“Racist” because it usually refers to stupid white women?

Not really.


Silly on both counts.


it comes In very handy these days!

[obamanut2012]

52. Yes

Nothing close to this meme for men -- it's sexist. It is also often ageist, too.

[Devil Child]

54. Yes, and racist too n/t

[Hobo]

56. No and hell No

If the shoe fits they should wear it

[kcr]

58. It's a tired, overused sexist meme.

[StarfishSaver]

64. The people who use it don't see it that way

And since it's their terminology used to describe what they want to describe, it's really not up to anyone else to police their words for them.

[EllieBC]

59. It's getting overplayed. And often incorrectly used.

Initially it was just white middle class ‘burb dwelling women who genuinely believed everyone was there to serve them and would demean service workers. That’s a tiny slice of people. Now it’s extended to anyone who complains about poor service/shoddy goods.

[mcar]

60. No

It refers to white women who "call the manager," as it is said. That is neither racist or sexist, but real.

[StarfishSaver]

66. Karens also do a lot of policing of the language minorities choose to use to describe our experience

Although that particular tendency isn't limited just to Karens ...

[KentuckyWoman]

63. I've heard "Chad" too.

That one doesn't seem to get around quite as much.

[Iggo]

65. Nope.

[milestogo]

67. Yes. And its stupid.

[TheBlackAdder]

68. Becky, Karen, Susan & Gertrudes... Karen's are bad, but nothing tops my age group: Susans!

Someone else mentioned the male versions. It's by generation, not sex.

[tinrobot]

69. I know a few women named Karen who absolutely do not fit the stereotype.

Whenever I see that word tossed about, I feel bad for them. They don't deserve it.

[LisaL]

70. Yes. Because there are lots of women with this name and they don't deserve

to be stereotyped like this.

[backscatter712]

71. "Karen" is a nickname for an arrogant entitled white woman.

The typical description of a Karen: Usually middle aged, has a bleached-blonde bob haircut. She's a Trump supporter, she's an antivaxxer, she refuses to wear a mask or do anything resembling a common-sense precaution against Captain Trumps. She can also be found shilling her MLM essential oils.

Canonically, a Karen is throwing a tantrum at the poor barista at the Starbucks because she got her double-half-caff latte with soy milk instead of almond milk. Of course, she's screaming, making a scene, and (all together now), asking for the manager.

Bear in mind that many people in customer service jobs, be they in retail, waiting tables, tending bar, talking on the phone in a call center, tend to be minorities - not having the educational or social-networking opportunities to move up in the world as easily. The usual socioeconomic disparities that cause minorities to get stuck in crappier, lower-paying jobs also often result in Karen getting a cushy job in some financial firm.

So the Karen stereotype is really from a lot of minority customer-facing workers blowing off steam after repeatedly dealing with snotty, entitled, privileged customers, who are throwing their weight around, being assholes, and making life more shitty for everyone.

Is "Karen" sexist or racist or otherwise prejudiced? My answer is no, particularly since the number-one characteristic of a Karen is throwing a tantrum and acting like an entitled, privileged harpy.

[LisaL]

73. So if your name were Karen, you'd be perfectly happy to be stereotyped as

a "middle aged bleached blonde who is Trump supporter", right?

[backscatter712]

74. Most people don't take it that seriously.

It's just a stupid Internet meme.

[Celerity]

78. your actual name in real life has nothing to do with it

[egduj]

76. This forum does not use the term as originally intended.

But in most other social media, no, I don't think so.

[Celerity]

77. No, not at all, and it is not new, other than apparently to some on DU.

and this:

Of the context I've seen it seems implied that it berates a woman who complains. Generally a white woman. Maybe sexist and racist?

Is laughable and also borderline offensive.

You are actually trying to claim it is racist AGAINST whites? Especially as many Karen's are often times exhibiting actual racist behaviour. They are not just 'complaining', which is such a broad description.





The concept of anti-white 'racism' is a RW construct. Racism itself is a white-constructed power system. Other racial/ethnic groups in the U.S. can be bigots, exhibit prejudice, xenophobia, and can discriminate, but lack the institutional power necessary to construct their own racist system.

[treestar]

84. Yes.

It is a stereotype. No need to try to pretend it is not because it refers to a subset of white women. You can belong to a privileged class and still be stereotyped. That's not to say they are oppressed.

[MicaelS]

93. Absolutely not.

I am a white man, and my closest friend is named Karen, and she is not like this at all.

[RobinA]

95. I Didn't Use

to think so, but it is now being used as such. I have used it in the past as a generic female term. I didn't even realize the person was supposed to be white. I will never use it again since I have seen it used here in the way it has been.

[BannonsLiver]

98. Oh boy here we go.