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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Authorities Waited Too Long to Arrest Those Cops.
It is now too late to do so, in terms of having an effect on the continuation of rioting and other destructive reactions. The arrests should have been made on the spot or very shortly afterwards.
Arrests are not convictions. Arrests are not punishments. They are simply arrests. People are arrested all the time, based on "probable cause" that a crime has been committed. Bail hearings are held after arrests. Often, the arrested person is then released, pending a trial or other actions.
Those four cops who were fired should have been arrested. The videos show "probable cause" for such arrests. But, no arrests were made in a timely way.
Now, it is too late. If they are arrested now, the word of that will not get to those who are engaged in protesting what happened in violent ways. It will not. The problems will continue. The protesting will continue. The authorities waited too long to act, and now they are stuck with the results of their poor judgment.
The police arrest people all the time on "probable cause." In many, many cases, the person is then freed when no charges are filed. In the meantime, though, they remain under arrest until being released.
Arrests should have been made immediately. The failure to do so has caused a very high cost. It is a shame on the authorities who could have prevented what has happened by simply arresting those cops who were responsible for the death of George Floyd.
I am beyond disappointed in those authorities.
Stuart G
(38,365 posts)Prevented Much of the Violence.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)tblue37
(64,982 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Stuart G
(38,365 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)hlthe2b
(101,730 posts)It is a corruption of the very principles of "justice for all," and yet another imminent danger to our so-called "democracy."
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)roamer65
(36,739 posts)The window is fast closing.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Not for one minute.
roamer65
(36,739 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Foolish.
roamer65
(36,739 posts)Very foolish.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)roamer65
(36,739 posts)These press conferences are spin and intransigence.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)who has to get off his ass and do something.
roamer65
(36,739 posts)Police corruption that he profits from?
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)He's been indecisive and reluctant to act in other difficult cases. At this point he could charge a lesser offense by complaint (first-degree murder has to be charged by grand jury indictment) and cause them to be arrested, then convene a grand jury if the evidence supports the more serious charge. I hope he does something soon because it's just going to get worse if he doesn't.
pwb
(11,205 posts)Cops treat us all like taliban. Fuck them all.
Solomon
(12,305 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)However, the opportunity to have stopped the public reaction has passed.
roamer65
(36,739 posts)I am disappointed.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)He has seemed in the past to be indecisive and reluctant to act. I don't know if he's necessarily pro-cop (though he could be, or intimidated by Kroll and the union) as much as just weak and overly cautious. He made a huge muddle of the Mohammed Noor case and took forever (July to February) to convene a grand jury. There are tactical and legal reasons for doing things in a certain order, and obviously it's essential to handle it by the book. These cops have hired some of the best criminal defense lawyers in the state and they have the backing of the very powerful police union headed by that obstructive Trumpist asshat Bob Kroll. Even with the videos this will not be an easy case. But the unrest won't stop until there is a clear and obvious movement toward prosecuting these guys.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)He consistently behaves in that way, and has great influence, due to his position. I consider his actions to be a conflict of interest, frankly. He is attempting to run the MPD on his own terms.
Unfortunately, he can only be fired for cause, and he will not provide that cause. He has more power than the Police Chief, and has for quite some time.
I suspect a deal was made regarding the firings that included not arresting the officers. Now, of course, the firings will be appealed and, if history is any guide, all four will end up being reinstated.
I hope not, but that's what I suspect will happen in the end.
BComplex
(7,984 posts)to pay him a visit.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Because mob vigilante justice seems to be his MO for everyone else.
Tell me I'm wrong.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)I'd guess that all four of the officers are somewhere in Wisconsin by now.
roamer65
(36,739 posts)Better not be Michigan. Fuckers.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)dawg day
(7,947 posts)They'll arrest for minor offenses immediately and handcuff and (often) abuse people right on the street.
But with police and cop wannabes like Zimmerman and the ones in Georgia, they'll wait until the law says they have to go to a grand jury -- and then only if they are forced into it by public opinion and a video usually.
Disaffected
(4,508 posts)an official cause of death?
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)But, they have waited too long. The Twin Cities are burning.
BComplex
(7,984 posts)Or more.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)died of cancer No, they waited to arrest because of their own racism.
Disaffected
(4,508 posts)How 'bout a heart attack or aneurysm or some other cause brought on by the stress of the take-down but not directly related to pressure on the neck? The victim said "he can't breathe" but was that actually caused by compression of the neck? I expect the answer is yes but why not wait until such facts are known?
It seems to me that laying a charge without a verified cause of death would be pretty dumb.
gristy
(10,667 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)It is a very, very bad bargain that has been made.
geardaddy
(24,924 posts)They should have been arrested on Wednesday.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)What that deal is and who is involved is not clear, but what has happened defies all reason, I think.
Meanwhile, the Twin Cities are burning.
geardaddy
(24,924 posts)I don't if that's possible, but he's definitely one of the people who is prolonging this unrest.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)He can't be fired, nor can he be sued successfully, really.
geardaddy
(24,924 posts)I have consistently voted against him. I guess that's the only way we can get him out.
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)complacency.
That's the problem is that all this keeps happening over and over and top Repubes are just like "well whatever, you know I leave that up to the courts" but they won't just freaking speak out about it and say it is enough and take action and stand up for what is right.
ScratchCat
(1,957 posts)Maybe the guy on top, but the others wont, and will probably get their jobs back once the union files suit.
You can't charge someone with a crime involving a death when there is no autopsy report yet. This is criminal justice 101, people. It doesn't matter that people looted a Target, even though Don Lemon thinks it should. That's not justification for bringing charges without an investigation and all the talking heads hyperventilating over this have lost all credibility. In just 24 hours, I have had three people tell me, "See, this is why I don't trust the media on Covid-19" after watching the media nonsense last night after a very good press conference.
And the posts or comments that say stuff like, "If any one us were filmed with our knee on a man who died, we'd have been arrested immediately". OF COURSE YOU WOULD HAVE, because you are not a sworn law enforcement officer making a lawful stop and detention. You have to substantiate unlawful use of force before you can charge a law enforcement officer. This isn't new; it isn't difficult to understand.
Its absolutely crazy that you have to explain this to African Americans who's ancestors and relatives experienced similar lynch mobs over petty crimes and offenses that someone claimed they had committed. There is no video showing an officer killing Mr. Floyd. He was unresponsive and pronounced dead at the hospital. There is nothing on those videos that could result in an immediate arrest or charges. There has been no autopsy yet. People are pretending this is like the case in NC where the cop shot the man in his back when he was running away. No, THAT is murder. That is evidence that should result in an immediate arrest and charges. This takes an investigation. Excessive force was probably used, but we still don't know how he ended up on his stomach in front of the SUV after getting up from the sidewalk. Can't we just get all the facts? No?
There will be no murder charges and the resulting looting will just result in Trump picking up ground in polls because the Democrats are not helping themselves by trying to make this about Trump.
Truth
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)As for the lack of an autopsy, you are incorrect. There is ample "probable cause" for the arrest of Officer Chauvin, at least.
Cop or no cop, he should have been arrested.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,847 posts)...while he was handcuffed and begging for mercy.
Even prisons, where people have actually been convicted of crimes, treat the inmates more carefully!
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2012-01-31/police-guidelines-permit-techniques-that-can-kill
A technique which is sighted as a factor in so called deaths in custody is what is known as prone restraint. It involves forcing a suspect face-down onto the floor, cuffing their hands behind their back and then putting pressure on their torso, shoulders and neck.
For example, an officer may pin the suspects body to the floor with a knee on their back, and another may immobilise the suspects head by kneeling on their neck.
In comparison, there have been only two deaths following restraint in the prison service in the last 15 years. Experts suggest this is because stricter guidelines on the use of prone restraint were introduced during the mid-1990s following a spate of restraint-related deaths in prisons.
Prison service rules now state that a prisoner must never [original emphasis] be kept in the prone position with their hands held behind their back in ratchet handcuffs.
Mariana
(14,849 posts)Alacritous Crier
(3,805 posts)nsd
(2,406 posts)No matter what happens to those cops, the decisions -- including on timing -- should be determined by fact-gathering and standard procedures -- not by a mob.
I am appalled that so many on DU think we should react to rioters and looters. And that is what they are -- they are not the "unheard" (enough with that MLK quote) -- they are people who have taken advantage of George Floyd's death to engage their baser instincts.
roamer65
(36,739 posts)If they can arrest a CNN reporter that quick and easy, then it shows how quick and easy an arrest of those ex-cops would be, as Joe Biden has pointed out.
You can arrest for lesser charges and then modify them as the investigation proceeds.
People arent demanding action because of the mob violence, we are all demanding action from an iron clad assault and murder on video.
nsd
(2,406 posts)Arresting someone should be a big deal. Not something on a hair trigger.
Chauvin was just taken into custody today. Four days to investigate. That is totally reasonable. Video evidence, like all evidence, should be evaluated carefully.
Demanding arrests now! now! now! is not how the system should work.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)You are talking about how the system should work. And yet it doesn't for many... as we've seen for decades. It is broken. You simply cannot appeal to people to wait for the system to do its job when justice is denied or applied inequitably over and over and over again.
Now before you lose your mind please know again that i agree with you. We should NOT be arresting people without rock solid reasons and evidence. But what SHOULD happen does NOT happen with black people and other disenfranchised communities. They see an inequitable application of checks and balances... where was all of this caution in the case of the arrest that led to this fiasco? And this isnt an isolated incident as we've seen so many times. If you expect people to trust in our system of justice you have to ensure it works for all and is equally applied. Otherwise mob rule will take over. That's not a statement of approval on my part. It's an acknowledgment of human nature.
maxrandb
(15,192 posts)could care less about Mr Floyd.
These handful of trouble makers are no different then the MAGAts carrying guns at Capitol Buildings.
People have every right to be outraged, but like the emergency director for MN said: "I couldn't hear the voice of Mr Floyd over the sound of the roaring fires."
Arrest immediately, or arrest now... the violence must stop.