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MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
Fri May 29, 2020, 11:40 AM May 2020

The Authorities Waited Too Long to Arrest Those Cops.

It is now too late to do so, in terms of having an effect on the continuation of rioting and other destructive reactions. The arrests should have been made on the spot or very shortly afterwards.

Arrests are not convictions. Arrests are not punishments. They are simply arrests. People are arrested all the time, based on "probable cause" that a crime has been committed. Bail hearings are held after arrests. Often, the arrested person is then released, pending a trial or other actions.

Those four cops who were fired should have been arrested. The videos show "probable cause" for such arrests. But, no arrests were made in a timely way.

Now, it is too late. If they are arrested now, the word of that will not get to those who are engaged in protesting what happened in violent ways. It will not. The problems will continue. The protesting will continue. The authorities waited too long to act, and now they are stuck with the results of their poor judgment.

The police arrest people all the time on "probable cause." In many, many cases, the person is then freed when no charges are filed. In the meantime, though, they remain under arrest until being released.

Arrests should have been made immediately. The failure to do so has caused a very high cost. It is a shame on the authorities who could have prevented what has happened by simply arresting those cops who were responsible for the death of George Floyd.

I am beyond disappointed in those authorities.

53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Authorities Waited Too Long to Arrest Those Cops. (Original Post) MineralMan May 2020 OP
Yes, well said. Excellent Analysis..K and R..and totally true: If Arrested Immediately Could Have Stuart G May 2020 #1
Thanks. MineralMan May 2020 #4
So they did arrest Chauvin, but not the other 3. Too little, too late. nt tblue37 May 2020 #49
Yes but they still need to do it! I believe the violence will escalate until they do it. lagomorph777 May 2020 #9
Yes, Of Course they need to arrest the cops. These leaders are stupid too. Stuart G May 2020 #12
+1, on the face of it it looks like there was enough evidence to arrest them uponit7771 May 2020 #42
Yes. It seems cops & the very wealthy are only ones who are not arrested based on "probable cause" hlthe2b May 2020 #2
Yes. The lack of "equal justice" is obvious. MineralMan May 2020 #5
If the governor doesn't say they are under arrest by the end of this speech, tonite will be bad too. roamer65 May 2020 #3
I don't believe he will say that. MineralMan May 2020 #6
You're right. He didn't. roamer65 May 2020 #8
They appear to have made a decision and won't change their minds. MineralMan May 2020 #13
Very. roamer65 May 2020 #16
Tonight will be worse. lagomorph777 May 2020 #17
I hate to say it but yes. roamer65 May 2020 #23
It's not up to him. He has to wait for the county attorney, The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #15
Sounds like Freeman is comprised. roamer65 May 2020 #18
I don't think he's compromised as much as weak and ineffective. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #25
They circle the wagons and know how to rig things. pwb May 2020 #7
They waited too long but it's not too late to arrest the fuckers! Solomon May 2020 #10
They should be arrested ASAP, of course. MineralMan May 2020 #11
You are correct. roamer65 May 2020 #24
I'm disappointed in Mike Freeman, but not awfully surprised. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #14
Yes. I smell Bob Kroll in all of this. MineralMan May 2020 #20
Then the protesters need to camp out on Bob Kroll's lawn. Maybe they need to take these crowds BComplex May 2020 #33
If the protestors formed a vigilante mob that hunted down the cops I suppose trump would applaud SoonerPride May 2020 #19
I doubt that would be possible, actually. MineralMan May 2020 #21
Yeah, Kroll has them in hiding somewhere. roamer65 May 2020 #26
Most likely true. SoonerPride May 2020 #37
It really is a pattern dawg day May 2020 #22
Are they possibly waiting for Disaffected May 2020 #27
I don't know what they're waiting for, frankly. MineralMan May 2020 #28
They could have done 3 autopsies by now. BComplex May 2020 #38
Sure, because it's possible that George Floyd rusty fender May 2020 #50
Funny. Disaffected May 2020 #52
They haven't been arrested - the waiting continues gristy May 2020 #29
While the Waiting Continues, the Twin Cities Burn. MineralMan May 2020 #30
You are spot on, MM. geardaddy May 2020 #31
Some sort of deal has been made. MineralMan May 2020 #32
Freeman needs to be fired and sued. geardaddy May 2020 #39
He needs to pull up his big boy pants and do his job. MineralMan May 2020 #40
Yep, he needs to do his job. geardaddy May 2020 #43
Yes and top Repubes aren't speaking out against the murder. Their silence is screaming their cbdo2007 May 2020 #34
Its unlikely anyone will be arrested ScratchCat May 2020 #35
Oh, there will be arrests. MineralMan May 2020 #36
There was more than one cop on top of him... Buckeye_Democrat May 2020 #41
Oh, those cops were just having a grand time, weren't they? Mariana May 2020 #45
K&R Alacritous Crier May 2020 #44
Decisions on arrests and prosecutions should not be driven by a mob. nsd May 2020 #46
There is enough probable cause for arrest in the video. roamer65 May 2020 #47
The cops were wrong to arrest that CNN reporter and his crew. nsd May 2020 #48
Please stop acting as if this event occurred in a vacuum ibegurpard May 2020 #51
Bull - the folks using this as an opportunity to set stuff on fire maxrandb May 2020 #53

Stuart G

(38,365 posts)
1. Yes, well said. Excellent Analysis..K and R..and totally true: If Arrested Immediately Could Have
Fri May 29, 2020, 11:44 AM
May 2020

Prevented Much of the Violence.

hlthe2b

(101,730 posts)
2. Yes. It seems cops & the very wealthy are only ones who are not arrested based on "probable cause"
Fri May 29, 2020, 11:44 AM
May 2020

It is a corruption of the very principles of "justice for all," and yet another imminent danger to our so-called "democracy."

roamer65

(36,739 posts)
3. If the governor doesn't say they are under arrest by the end of this speech, tonite will be bad too.
Fri May 29, 2020, 11:44 AM
May 2020

The window is fast closing.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
25. I don't think he's compromised as much as weak and ineffective.
Fri May 29, 2020, 11:57 AM
May 2020

He's been indecisive and reluctant to act in other difficult cases. At this point he could charge a lesser offense by complaint (first-degree murder has to be charged by grand jury indictment) and cause them to be arrested, then convene a grand jury if the evidence supports the more serious charge. I hope he does something soon because it's just going to get worse if he doesn't.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
11. They should be arrested ASAP, of course.
Fri May 29, 2020, 11:49 AM
May 2020

However, the opportunity to have stopped the public reaction has passed.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
14. I'm disappointed in Mike Freeman, but not awfully surprised.
Fri May 29, 2020, 11:50 AM
May 2020

He has seemed in the past to be indecisive and reluctant to act. I don't know if he's necessarily pro-cop (though he could be, or intimidated by Kroll and the union) as much as just weak and overly cautious. He made a huge muddle of the Mohammed Noor case and took forever (July to February) to convene a grand jury. There are tactical and legal reasons for doing things in a certain order, and obviously it's essential to handle it by the book. These cops have hired some of the best criminal defense lawyers in the state and they have the backing of the very powerful police union headed by that obstructive Trumpist asshat Bob Kroll. Even with the videos this will not be an easy case. But the unrest won't stop until there is a clear and obvious movement toward prosecuting these guys.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
20. Yes. I smell Bob Kroll in all of this.
Fri May 29, 2020, 11:55 AM
May 2020

He consistently behaves in that way, and has great influence, due to his position. I consider his actions to be a conflict of interest, frankly. He is attempting to run the MPD on his own terms.

Unfortunately, he can only be fired for cause, and he will not provide that cause. He has more power than the Police Chief, and has for quite some time.

I suspect a deal was made regarding the firings that included not arresting the officers. Now, of course, the firings will be appealed and, if history is any guide, all four will end up being reinstated.

I hope not, but that's what I suspect will happen in the end.

BComplex

(7,984 posts)
33. Then the protesters need to camp out on Bob Kroll's lawn. Maybe they need to take these crowds
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:07 PM
May 2020

to pay him a visit.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
19. If the protestors formed a vigilante mob that hunted down the cops I suppose trump would applaud
Fri May 29, 2020, 11:54 AM
May 2020

Because mob vigilante justice seems to be his MO for everyone else.

Tell me I'm wrong.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
21. I doubt that would be possible, actually.
Fri May 29, 2020, 11:56 AM
May 2020

I'd guess that all four of the officers are somewhere in Wisconsin by now.

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
22. It really is a pattern
Fri May 29, 2020, 11:56 AM
May 2020

They'll arrest for minor offenses immediately and handcuff and (often) abuse people right on the street.
But with police and cop wannabes like Zimmerman and the ones in Georgia, they'll wait until the law says they have to go to a grand jury -- and then only if they are forced into it by public opinion and a video usually.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
28. I don't know what they're waiting for, frankly.
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:01 PM
May 2020

But, they have waited too long. The Twin Cities are burning.

 

rusty fender

(3,428 posts)
50. Sure, because it's possible that George Floyd
Fri May 29, 2020, 01:53 PM
May 2020

died of cancer No, they waited to arrest because of their own racism.

Disaffected

(4,508 posts)
52. Funny.
Fri May 29, 2020, 02:40 PM
May 2020

How 'bout a heart attack or aneurysm or some other cause brought on by the stress of the take-down but not directly related to pressure on the neck? The victim said "he can't breathe" but was that actually caused by compression of the neck? I expect the answer is yes but why not wait until such facts are known?

It seems to me that laying a charge without a verified cause of death would be pretty dumb.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
30. While the Waiting Continues, the Twin Cities Burn.
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:04 PM
May 2020

It is a very, very bad bargain that has been made.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
32. Some sort of deal has been made.
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:05 PM
May 2020

What that deal is and who is involved is not clear, but what has happened defies all reason, I think.

Meanwhile, the Twin Cities are burning.

geardaddy

(24,924 posts)
39. Freeman needs to be fired and sued.
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:22 PM
May 2020

I don't if that's possible, but he's definitely one of the people who is prolonging this unrest.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
40. He needs to pull up his big boy pants and do his job.
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:24 PM
May 2020

He can't be fired, nor can he be sued successfully, really.

geardaddy

(24,924 posts)
43. Yep, he needs to do his job.
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:32 PM
May 2020

I have consistently voted against him. I guess that's the only way we can get him out.

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
34. Yes and top Repubes aren't speaking out against the murder. Their silence is screaming their
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:07 PM
May 2020

complacency.

That's the problem is that all this keeps happening over and over and top Repubes are just like "well whatever, you know I leave that up to the courts" but they won't just freaking speak out about it and say it is enough and take action and stand up for what is right.

ScratchCat

(1,957 posts)
35. Its unlikely anyone will be arrested
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:07 PM
May 2020

Maybe the guy on top, but the others wont, and will probably get their jobs back once the union files suit.

You can't charge someone with a crime involving a death when there is no autopsy report yet. This is criminal justice 101, people. It doesn't matter that people looted a Target, even though Don Lemon thinks it should. That's not justification for bringing charges without an investigation and all the talking heads hyperventilating over this have lost all credibility. In just 24 hours, I have had three people tell me, "See, this is why I don't trust the media on Covid-19" after watching the media nonsense last night after a very good press conference.

And the posts or comments that say stuff like, "If any one us were filmed with our knee on a man who died, we'd have been arrested immediately". OF COURSE YOU WOULD HAVE, because you are not a sworn law enforcement officer making a lawful stop and detention. You have to substantiate unlawful use of force before you can charge a law enforcement officer. This isn't new; it isn't difficult to understand.

Its absolutely crazy that you have to explain this to African Americans who's ancestors and relatives experienced similar lynch mobs over petty crimes and offenses that someone claimed they had committed. There is no video showing an officer killing Mr. Floyd. He was unresponsive and pronounced dead at the hospital. There is nothing on those videos that could result in an immediate arrest or charges. There has been no autopsy yet. People are pretending this is like the case in NC where the cop shot the man in his back when he was running away. No, THAT is murder. That is evidence that should result in an immediate arrest and charges. This takes an investigation. Excessive force was probably used, but we still don't know how he ended up on his stomach in front of the SUV after getting up from the sidewalk. Can't we just get all the facts? No?

There will be no murder charges and the resulting looting will just result in Trump picking up ground in polls because the Democrats are not helping themselves by trying to make this about Trump.

Truth

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
36. Oh, there will be arrests.
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:10 PM
May 2020

As for the lack of an autopsy, you are incorrect. There is ample "probable cause" for the arrest of Officer Chauvin, at least.

Cop or no cop, he should have been arrested.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,847 posts)
41. There was more than one cop on top of him...
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:27 PM
May 2020

...while he was handcuffed and begging for mercy.



Even prisons, where people have actually been convicted of crimes, treat the inmates more carefully!

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2012-01-31/police-guidelines-permit-techniques-that-can-kill

A technique which is sighted as a factor in so called ‘deaths in custody’ is what is known as ‘prone restraint’. It involves forcing a suspect face-down onto the floor, cuffing their hands behind their back and then putting pressure on their torso, shoulders and neck.

For example, an officer may pin the suspect’s body to the floor with a knee on their back, and another may immobilise the suspect’s head by kneeling on their neck.

In comparison, there have been only two deaths following restraint in the prison service in the last 15 years. Experts suggest this is because stricter guidelines on the use of prone restraint were introduced during the mid-1990s following a spate of restraint-related deaths in prisons.

Prison service rules now state that ‘a prisoner must never [original emphasis] be kept in the prone position with their hands held behind their back in ratchet handcuffs’.

nsd

(2,406 posts)
46. Decisions on arrests and prosecutions should not be driven by a mob.
Fri May 29, 2020, 01:13 PM
May 2020

No matter what happens to those cops, the decisions -- including on timing -- should be determined by fact-gathering and standard procedures -- not by a mob.

I am appalled that so many on DU think we should react to rioters and looters. And that is what they are -- they are not the "unheard" (enough with that MLK quote) -- they are people who have taken advantage of George Floyd's death to engage their baser instincts.

roamer65

(36,739 posts)
47. There is enough probable cause for arrest in the video.
Fri May 29, 2020, 01:16 PM
May 2020

If they can arrest a CNN reporter that quick and easy, then it shows how quick and easy an arrest of those ex-cops would be, as Joe Biden has pointed out.

You can arrest for lesser charges and then modify them as the investigation proceeds.

People aren’t demanding action because of the mob violence, we are all demanding action from an iron clad assault and murder on video.

nsd

(2,406 posts)
48. The cops were wrong to arrest that CNN reporter and his crew.
Fri May 29, 2020, 01:20 PM
May 2020

Arresting someone should be a big deal. Not something on a hair trigger.

Chauvin was just taken into custody today. Four days to investigate. That is totally reasonable. Video evidence, like all evidence, should be evaluated carefully.

Demanding arrests now! now! now! is not how the system should work.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
51. Please stop acting as if this event occurred in a vacuum
Fri May 29, 2020, 02:08 PM
May 2020

You are talking about how the system should work. And yet it doesn't for many... as we've seen for decades. It is broken. You simply cannot appeal to people to wait for the system to do its job when justice is denied or applied inequitably over and over and over again.
Now before you lose your mind please know again that i agree with you. We should NOT be arresting people without rock solid reasons and evidence. But what SHOULD happen does NOT happen with black people and other disenfranchised communities. They see an inequitable application of checks and balances... where was all of this caution in the case of the arrest that led to this fiasco? And this isnt an isolated incident as we've seen so many times. If you expect people to trust in our system of justice you have to ensure it works for all and is equally applied. Otherwise mob rule will take over. That's not a statement of approval on my part. It's an acknowledgment of human nature.

maxrandb

(15,192 posts)
53. Bull - the folks using this as an opportunity to set stuff on fire
Fri May 29, 2020, 02:53 PM
May 2020

could care less about Mr Floyd.

These handful of trouble makers are no different then the MAGAts carrying guns at Capitol Buildings.

People have every right to be outraged, but like the emergency director for MN said: "I couldn't hear the voice of Mr Floyd over the sound of the roaring fires."

Arrest immediately, or arrest now... the violence must stop.

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