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Sat May 30, 2020, 07:25 PM

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the burning of stores and vehicles.

The simple fact is peaceful protests are not able to effect change in an efficient manner. As peaceful protests have proven to be largely ineffective is it any wonder that protesters graduate to less peaceful and more impactful measures? If it takes them burning down our society one piece at a time until real change is enacted, who are we to disagree with that?

How many black lives must be lost while we give ''peaceful protest'' a chance to work? Not one more, I say.

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Reply I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the burning of stores and vehicles. (Original post)
PTWB May 2020 OP
mahatmakanejeeves May 2020 #1
PTWB May 2020 #3
MichMan May 2020 #4
mahatmakanejeeves May 2020 #5
LisaL May 2020 #6
Claustrum May 2020 #11
EllieBC May 2020 #16
dware May 2020 #17
Malmsy May 2020 #19
gibraltar72 May 2020 #27
ecstatic May 2020 #31
mahatmakanejeeves May 2020 #36
Midnight Writer May 2020 #52
Skittles May 2020 #44
Dial H For Hero May 2020 #42
hughee99 May 2020 #81
dware May 2020 #14
Post removed May 2020 #18
dware May 2020 #22
ripcord May 2020 #38
The Magistrate May 2020 #45
dware May 2020 #77
mahatmakanejeeves May 2020 #23
EllieBC May 2020 #24
Malmsy May 2020 #25
MichMan May 2020 #2
uppityperson May 2020 #7
The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #8
Livluvgrow May 2020 #9
LisaL May 2020 #13
The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #21
pink May 2020 #47
Blue_true May 2020 #48
The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #50
LeftInTX May 2020 #56
scarletwoman May 2020 #10
The Magistrate May 2020 #12
nolabear May 2020 #15
Malmsy May 2020 #20
Stallion May 2020 #49
BigMin28 May 2020 #26
Claustrum May 2020 #28
dware May 2020 #30
BigMin28 May 2020 #35
Claustrum May 2020 #39
BigMin28 May 2020 #46
Stallion May 2020 #51
ripcord May 2020 #40
dware May 2020 #29
MustLoveBeagles May 2020 #34
LeftInTX May 2020 #57
I_UndergroundPanther May 2020 #32
mahatmakanejeeves May 2020 #33
ripcord May 2020 #41
SlimJimmy May 2020 #78
Olafjoy May 2020 #37
Skittles May 2020 #43
npk May 2020 #53
PTWB May 2020 #54
npk May 2020 #55
mvd May 2020 #58
zak247 May 2020 #59
gulliver May 2020 #60
SMC22307 May 2020 #61
Post removed May 2020 #62
PTWB May 2020 #63
Claustrum May 2020 #64
PTWB May 2020 #65
Claustrum May 2020 #66
PTWB May 2020 #67
Claustrum May 2020 #68
PTWB May 2020 #69
Crunchy Frog May 2020 #72
PTWB May 2020 #73
Crunchy Frog May 2020 #76
SlimJimmy May 2020 #79
Buckeye_Democrat May 2020 #70
rockfordfile May 2020 #71
dpibel May 2020 #74
GusBob May 2020 #75
pnwmom May 2020 #80

Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:26 PM

1. Let's burn yours.

Are they giving out prizes for stupid posts at DU now?

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #1)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:28 PM

3. I would gladly volunteer my vehicle to the fires of social change

Are black lives worth less than your Honda?

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Response to PTWB (Reply #3)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:29 PM

4. Go for it.

Set it on fire yourself

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Response to PTWB (Reply #3)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:29 PM

5. What are you waiting for? Video or it didn't happen. NT

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Response to PTWB (Reply #3)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:30 PM

6. Sure. Drive it where the protests are.

Lets see it burn.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #3)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:32 PM

11. Just because you want to volunteer, others don't

Like others have said, please drive your car to the nearest protest and tell them to set yours on fire. Actually, might as well start the fire yourself.

And please video it and post it on here.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #3)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:34 PM

16. We will wait for pics.

Iím sure youíre not all talk.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #3)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:36 PM

17. Ok, then why don't you jump into your car this very moment

and drive right into the middle of one of these protests and let them torch it, and make sure you get video of it so we can see it.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #3)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:36 PM

19. I find that straight white males are usually the ones offering up "BURN IT ALL DOWN."

Because they usually have the least to lose when civilization goes south. Everyone else? Raped, enslaved, slaughtered...

Are those who suffer most when society crumbles worth less than your Honda?

Think about it.

I find it unbelievable that you were a Bernie supporter.

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Response to Malmsy (Reply #19)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:57 PM

27. When civilization goes south?

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Response to Malmsy (Reply #19)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:02 PM

31. This is precisely why the OP has a point

Our government is largely run by white men. Look at how white men resolve problems with the government: armed protests, massacres, bombs, militia groups, violent clashes with the feds, etc. Violence appears to be the only language that the men who run our country understand.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #31)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:08 PM

36. Isn't that what they call stereotyping? NT

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #31)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:55 PM

52. The language our leaders understand is money. Why do you think Trump is stirring this pot?

Violence doesn't mean shit to them. They won't be touched. They don't shop at Target.

To Trump, violence is an election issue he can exploit to promote further repression.

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Response to Malmsy (Reply #19)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:38 PM

44. you got that right

but the last part? nah

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Response to PTWB (Reply #3)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:23 PM

42. And your vehicle hasn't been burned yet...why?

Last edited Sun May 31, 2020, 12:27 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to PTWB (Reply #3)

Sun May 31, 2020, 02:13 PM

81. How many lives will be saved if you burn your car to the ground?

Unless the answer is Zero, why haven't you done this already?

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #1)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:33 PM

14. ....

Are they giving out prizes for stupid posts at DU now?


It would seem so.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #1)


Response to Post removed (Reply #18)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:40 PM

22. Someone alerted on that?

Why?

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Response to dware (Reply #22)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:12 PM

38. I didn't see the post but some that get removed just amaze me

You know it is bad when you can't figure out why someone you are in a heated discussion with had a post hidden.

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Response to dware (Reply #22)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:38 PM

45. Whose Was It, Sir?

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #45)

Sat May 30, 2020, 11:29 PM

77. I don't know, I wish I did, but I don't. nt

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Response to Post removed (Reply #18)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:41 PM

23. Thank you. Anymore, it's turning into a badge of honor.

We're getting a lot of DUers who are easily offended. Almost every time I'm on a jury, I vote to keep the "offending" post in place. Think of it as my own personal jury nullification.

Best wishes, and keep up the good fight. I leave you with the words of John Lewis. But what would he know?

Walter Shaub Retweeted

I know your pain, your rage, your sense of despair and hopelessness. Justice has, indeed, been denied for far too long. Rioting, looting, and burning is not the way. Organize. Demonstrate. Sit-in. Stand-up. Vote. Be constructive, not destructive.


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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #23)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:42 PM

24. Lots of alert humping.

Itís a natural thing on forums.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #23)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:45 PM

25. Thank you.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:28 PM

2. Set your own on fire in a show of solidarity

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:30 PM

7. Destruction of property gets more coverage and emotion than of people

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:30 PM

8. How would you feel if it was your small business

that you'd built up over many years and it got burned to the ground and your insurance didn't cover it (and insurance often doesn't cover civil unrest)? There you would be with nothing to show for your years of effort, no way to support yourself and your family; your employees (possibly PoC with their own families) would no longer have jobs and the city and its residents would no longer have the benefit of your commerce or your taxes. And if your car burned up too, you wouldn't even be able to make it to the food shelf.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:31 PM

9. No doubt

I mean its not like the people in that community need to get heart medicine or diabetes medicine or other meds. Not like they need fresh food or the occasional auto part to fix their car. Heck I am sure it wont bother them one bit to just hop in their car and head across town. Oh wait, what if they dont have a car? What if they are elderly or disabled and on a fixed income? What if the job THEY HAD put food on the table for their babies? It don't matter that they now have to go across town and spend money in stores that employ other people. Yeah nothing wrong. Sure.

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Response to Livluvgrow (Reply #9)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:32 PM

13. Don't forget mail. Nobody needs that.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #13)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:40 PM

21. Here's what happened to my post office last night.



I'm sure burning down a post office went a long way to advancing the cause of racial equality. I hope none of your mail burned up. Did you have a check coming? A package? Maybe some medicine you needed? Too bad; it's sometimes necessary to burn up other people's property for The Cause.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #21)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:40 PM

47. It doesn't do the cause of "mail in voting" any good either. n/t

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #21)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:41 PM

48. I don't believe for a minute that people fighting for racial equality

burned down that Post Office. Trump has been ripping the PO for weeks, it is more likely that some of his fans saw opportunity to destroy an "opponent".

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #48)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:45 PM

50. I think that's probably true, although it's also possible

that the post office wasn't the primary target but was just collateral damage because it's close to some of the other buildings that were set on fire.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #48)

Sat May 30, 2020, 09:19 PM

56. The people doing this are mostly anarchists who don't care about anything

except, "burning it all down"

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:31 PM

10. How many black and minority owned business should be burned down by nihilists who don't give a shit

about anything but taking an opportunity to destroy stuff?

But, yeah - how about yours first?

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:32 PM

12. Ah, Such A Beautiful Fiery Dream You Dream, Little One

Long before there is much progress in 'burning down our society one piece at a time' there will be tanks and soldiers in the streets, and they will be their with the support of the general populace. Few people want their society burnt down piece by piece, and few will tolerate the attempt if one is seriously made. The result may indeed be 'real change', but you are not likely to approve of it, or appreciate its imposition.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:34 PM

15. You really think that advances causes? Have at.

Loud angry protests. Shutting down commerce and roads and demanding to be heard. Being ceaseless and organized. But destroying an innocent personís property is just wrong and harms the cause.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:37 PM

20. Yeah, screw all that MLK/Ghandi crap... What did they ever accomplish anyway?



Peaceful protest is what creates real change.

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Response to Malmsy (Reply #20)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:45 PM

49. The Original Poster Is So Much Smarter than All of Us

Why even celebrate Martin Luther King Day?

Can't believe they made a movie about Ghandi!

Non-violent protest in fact has proven to be much more effect in achieving lasting change. No arson, looting or general mischief has ever changed opinion on an issue of justice. Some of these people act like are about 12

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:53 PM

26. People sure get upset

with the destruction of property, but not so much when living , breathing human beings are murdered.

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Response to BigMin28 (Reply #26)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:58 PM

28. Seriously? We are all very upset about the injustice and unnecessary deaths

But that doesn't mean we condone destroying random people's property and possibly their livelihoods.

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Response to Claustrum (Reply #28)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:00 PM

30. +100

I wish I could rec your post.

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Response to Claustrum (Reply #28)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:06 PM

35. I'm not condoning it

But when is enough enough? I have watched peaceful protest, and they are ignored or called weak. Remember UC Davis in 2011? They were peaceful, sitting on the ground. The police went down the line and pepper sprayed those kids. The law said they were justified in doing so. Meanwhile the true thugs like those that stormed the Capitol building in Michigan with weapons are called fine people, and face absolutely no consequence. If any of the current protesters had been carrying weapons and not been damaging anything, they would be dead.

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Response to BigMin28 (Reply #35)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:12 PM

39. And what does burning things down accomplish?

Maybe the hardcore people like you will cheer it on and think it is a good idea. But more level headed people and non-political people just shake their heads and get a negative reaction to the looting and destruction. It is completely counter-productive to the goal you want to achieve. Opposition and middle of the road people can simply think of the incident negatively because of the looting and destruction.

If you want to move public opinion on the subject matter, the looting and destruction is not the way to go.

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Response to Claustrum (Reply #39)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:39 PM

46. Hard core?

You know nothing about me. I'm a mother and grandmother. I have never been arrested nor I have ever harmed anyone in my life. I don't condone the destruction. I wish it weren't happening. But I can empathize with the desperation, is all I was saying. Do I think it helps? Absolutely not. But there is a double standard in the justice system. The wealthy get away with murder, while George Floyd was murdered, murdered over 20 dollars.

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Response to Claustrum (Reply #39)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:51 PM

51. It Gets Assholes Like Nixon, Reagan and Trump Elected

all who used racial themes to get elected

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Response to BigMin28 (Reply #35)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:17 PM

40. What good is it to destroy the property of someone who might support your cause?

If violence or destruction needs to be used in a protested it should directed at specific targets, general mayhem is not acceptable. There is a pastor on TV right now at a press conference in LA talking about how long it is taking to recover from the Rodney King riots, he says the poorest people suffer from this type of destruction, is that what you want?

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Response to BigMin28 (Reply #26)

Sat May 30, 2020, 07:59 PM

29. Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can be just as upset by the murders and be upset because of the needless destruction and violence.
Those businesses that are burning, looted, etc. are businesses that provide jobs to people who live in the community, provide needed services to those that live in the community.

Stop with the nonsensical comments, they don't help.

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Response to BigMin28 (Reply #26)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:05 PM

34. Uh, no

We're upset by both. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

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Response to BigMin28 (Reply #26)

Sat May 30, 2020, 09:23 PM

57. And people vote Republican when they see destruction of property

Look what happened in 2014 and 2016. Trump took full advantage of this and he will take full advantage of this again.

This fits right into the "law and order" politics narrative of Nixon and Trump...

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:03 PM

32. Property is not valuable

Compared to people's lives.

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Response to I_UndergroundPanther (Reply #32)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:05 PM

33. You know what to do. NT

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Response to I_UndergroundPanther (Reply #32)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:18 PM

41. So other people's right don't matter?

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Response to I_UndergroundPanther (Reply #32)

Sun May 31, 2020, 12:26 AM

78. Really?

If you owned a burned and looted business, I'm damn sure you would feel differently. This destruction is insane and counter productive.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:09 PM

37. I respectfully assert my right to be heartbroken and revolted

that black people are murdered in the street. I will do whatever I can to change this-VOTE first of all. I can also be completely disgusted with the destruction of property. I refuse to let anyone say that because I am angry about looting and burning that means I donít care about people being murdered.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:36 PM

43. that is just wrong

seriously

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:59 PM

53. Burning property doesn't accomplish anything

You cannot fight violence with violence. It only leads to more destruction. Just like you cannot put out a fire with more fire, you must extinguish the heat to put out the fire. History has shown time and again that violent protest and destruction has accomplished nothing. It has never moved us forward, only backward. Can you imagine what would have happened if Martin Luther King Jr. and those civil rights leaders who joined him on his march from Selma to Montgomery had started throwing rocks, bricks, or molotov cocktails at the police. Can you imagine what would have become of the Civil Rights era if King and those brave men and women has set fire to the buildings in Selma on that fateful day. Do you think the Civil Rights legislation would have been passed if that had occurred. Of course not. The Civil Rights Bill would have been pushed back a decade or more. What made the march in Selma so powerful is that it was precisely a bunch of thuggish cops attacking a peaceful march. That image helped convince the country that it was time for a change.

If King and the civil rights activist on that historic march had used violence and destruction to set fires to the buildings in Selma, they would have been branded as thugs and their message of peace and change would have been completely lost. They would have been effectively dismissed and their voices silenced. The only way to affect real, lasting change is to convince the greater majority that your position is just and worth fighting for. And to do that you must show them that the cause you are fighting against is a greater threat to their security and freedom than the cause you are fighting for. It's the only way.

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Response to npk (Reply #53)

Sat May 30, 2020, 09:06 PM

54. How many more years of peaceful protest, while black men are murdered indiscriminately by police...

until you acknowledge it is time to try something new? Picking an arbitrary starting point - the beating of Rodney King - how much has really changed since then with all the protests and all the outrage? Not fucking much.

Times have changed. Protests, to be effective, must change with the times.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #54)

Sat May 30, 2020, 09:16 PM

55. I understand your anger, I do

I am not saying the manner in which we protest should not change. I think that protests have to evolve with the times. I would like to see more young people attending community meetings and speaking at weekly city hall meetings. The problem is we get young and diverse group of protesters to come out to the streets when something like this happens. They are engaged for a few days maybe a few weeks and then things get back to normal and the memory of George Floyd and the countless others that have been murdered by the Cops fades.

To effect long lasting change, you need long lasting protests. That was the difference with the 1960's and into the 70's, Those protests became movements and they lasted for decades. They never stopped and the persistence of those actions which established and then later defined those movements is what led to the long lasting change. We see people getting angry and calling for change only in spurts and only when there is a large enough example of injustice to compel people to act. But again the movement cannot sustain itself because it lacks a centralized message and a true leader at the moment.

That is what needs to change.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 09:41 PM

58. Well the protests (at least any not done by right wing agitators)

..have reflected the perfectly understandable anger that has built up. And Trump has fueled the fire, along with time spent indoors and the effects of the pandemic that have hit minorities hardest. I realize that thereís got to be some order, but until the roots of the problems are addressed, I think there will be more unrest.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 09:49 PM

59. What happens when they burn down your house?

 

Or your store, or attack your family on the highway.

Your want to sacrifice who?

That kind of thinking is DANGEROUS

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 09:51 PM

60. Trump and Putin are pieces of shit.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 09:52 PM

61. Sure, 312, *totally* believable.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #62)

Sat May 30, 2020, 09:58 PM

63. Good thing you don't get to decide who is blue and who isn't.

I imagine there are a lot of disenfranchised people who wouldn't want to be under the same tent as people who values property over the lives of black men. But it is a damn big tent and we have room for everyone who wants to be part of it.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #63)

Sat May 30, 2020, 10:12 PM

64. Enough with the valuing property over the lives of black men talking point

If there is a black man in a burning building, there is no way I will value a property over saving the black man's live. I just don't understand why the losing lives of black men should lead to unrelated properties destruction. Those property owner has done absolutely nothing to danger the lives of those black men.

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Response to Claustrum (Reply #64)

Sat May 30, 2020, 10:15 PM

65. I suspect that the protesters think if enough burns, they wont be ignored any longer.

Hand wringing and ''concern'' for the past thirty years hasn't done much, considering how every few weeks another black man is murdered by police.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #65)

Sat May 30, 2020, 10:18 PM

66. Where is your volunteered burned car at? n/t

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Response to Claustrum (Reply #66)

Sat May 30, 2020, 10:19 PM

67. Where is your genuine outrage at? n/t

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Response to PTWB (Reply #67)

Sat May 30, 2020, 10:21 PM

68. I thought so. All talk no action.

It's ok for some random people to get their cars and properties burned. Anyways, I am done with this conversation. Have a good day!

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Response to Claustrum (Reply #68)

Sat May 30, 2020, 10:23 PM

69. I'd duck out quickly too if I tried to justify valuing property over people. Have a great night!

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Response to PTWB (Reply #67)

Sat May 30, 2020, 10:54 PM

72. Who are you to say who is and isn't genuinely outraged?

You don't know anyone here, or what is or isn't going on in their minds.

You know nothing about anyone that you're making presumptuous statements about.

What are you trying to stir up here?

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #72)

Sat May 30, 2020, 10:58 PM

73. Not stirring shit. I'm not naming names but there is an awful lot of pearl clutching

going on right now about property and fire and vandalism and looting. Black men are being murdered by the police and justice has been turning its back for decades. DECADES!

If peaceful protests donít work - and they havenít managed to stop the police murders yet - what other options do these people have?

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Response to PTWB (Reply #73)

Sat May 30, 2020, 11:11 PM

76. I haven't been seeing pearl clutching but I have been seeing shit stirring.

As far as protesting goes, maybe it's not the simplistic binary between peaceful protest and rioting/looting/arson that you imagine it to be.

Maybe there are ways to protest that are genuinely more effective, but don't involve random violence and property destruction. Maybe people need to start thinking farther outside the box.

My biggest "pearl clutching" concern is that this will play into the hands of the right wingers and we'll end up with a second Trump term.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #73)

Sun May 31, 2020, 12:32 AM

79. Pearl clutching?

How about the wanton destruction of a local minority owned business by some asshole that came in from out of town to invite anarchy? What the hell is wrong with you. You really don't have a clue.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 10:30 PM

70. It certainly doesn't help generate empathy, and...

... it will probably generate fear.

Fear is the right-winger's utopia. It keeps more people with a sense of insecurity and isolation, and then the corporate world can more easily call the shots.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 10:40 PM

71. I don't think so. That's not acceptable destroy peoples' homes

Peaceful is the way to go

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 11:02 PM

74. I don't think you know what "inherently" means

Although, now I think of it, that's probably the least of your problems.

In any case, I can't actually even give you a gentleperson's "C" on this one. It's a really, awfully lame attempt at creating the kind of "Yeah, baby," responses that can get posted elsewhere as examples of what lewnies live at DU.

Many have plied this trade in the past. Many, many better than this.

Or, to put it politely: You're full of it.

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 11:06 PM

75. I love the smell of a burning Volvo

Smells like justice

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Response to PTWB (Original post)

Sun May 31, 2020, 12:37 AM

80. They create backlash. The violence in Chicago during the conventions hurt the progressives,

not the R's.

Martin Luther King, John E. Lewis, and Ghandi know more about bringing about change than you do.

The people who are engaging in violence are inviting an authoritarian reaction by Trump, which he'll be happy to deliver. And ordinary Americans won't win.

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