I fear these protests can turn the election back to Trump.

[Stinky The Clown]

Before my post continues, let me state unequivocally that I support the honest protesters. I find myself personally affected deeply by the murder we all witnessed at the hands of police officers who clearly felt they could act with impunity against a black man, with no limits.

The rest of this post is about the politics of all this. Had the honest protesters continued to protest peacefully, this post and my political fear would never be necessary. But with outside agitators fanning flames (literally and figuratively), inciting others to riot, inciting the same police force to act with more impunity and thereby escalate things and cause it spread across the country, and even to Europe, politics becomes a part of this.

I can imagine the thin majorities in certain demographics that started to lean our way turn back to the right, enough to turn the election back to Trump.

I have no idea how to stop this.

I also have a hard time believing the outside agitators are not somehow centrally funded and controlled to accomplish just that, among other things.

For whom is incited social unrest (not righteous social protest) good? Who benefits?

Another post here on DU links to a NYT story about Russia pushing all this.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213511302

How can this be counter when our government is in league with the Russians? It looked like the election would do it. Now, however, that seems possibly less attainable than just a week ago.

[beachbumbob]

1. its possible now with all in play. All i know is Putin can;t smile any more than he is now

[EarlG]

2. Trump is the cause of all this shit, not the solution

If Trump was still a never-elected outsider who was promising to swoop in and rescue America from the incumbent who was presiding over this slow-motion disaster, he'd be a shoo-in right now.

But he IS the incumbent. He's had four years to show us what he can do, and we've got an out-of-control pandemic, economic collapse, and riots in the streets. He promised to Make America Great Again, and these are the results. This has all happened on his watch.

Aside from the MAGA cultists, who in America is looking at this shitshow right now and thinking "Four more years of THIS? YES PLEASE!"

[Stinky The Clown]

9. He only needs to win by one vote

Look at how he won in 2016. Can all of this turn just enough - let's say - suburban women in the Philadelphia suburbs turn that state back to him? Can they make the case that people of color = liberals = riots?

Add the well old Cheating Machine and the fear I feel is real.

[EarlG]

24. You can't rule anything out

But is his likelihood of winning higher now that it was in 2016?

With Russian assistance, Trump's FUD campaign against Hillary caused just enough independents to think, "I dunno about this guy, but I know I don't like Hillary Clinton so what the heck, I'll give him a shot." And he won by a razor-thin margin.

The ONLY thing Trump's entire team was banking their campaign on this year was a strong economy, and now that's out the window.

Instead we have a failed response to a pandemic, a failed response to economic collapse, and a failed response to rioting. Everything about Trump's incumbency in the last few months of his first term screams failure. People aren't better off than they were four years ago. How many independents who swung his way in 2016 thinking, "Let's give him a chance and see what he can do" are going to swing the other way this time? Bear in mind that he can barely afford to lose any of them.

[Laelth]

12. +1 n/t

-Laelth

[Laelth]

3. 1968 was a LOCK for the Democratic Party.

Nobody sane thought that Nixon could win. The 1968 riots handed the election to Nixon. Riots are always blamed on the party in power. Admittedly, the RFK assassination didn’t help Democrats in 1968, nor did Vietnam, but my principal point stands. It’s the party in power that will be blamed for the sorry state of the union.

Trump needs this civil unrest to die down quickly if he wants to be re-elected. Instead, he’s doing nothing and, if history is any guide, that will cost him and his party dearly.

-Laelth

[snowybirdie]

21. Sorry but I disagree

People hated LBJ and with his VP stepping in to run, he was a hated candidate, as well. Remember the war protests against the democrats in power? Remember the riots in the black areas protesting their many grievances? War, Assassinations and riots were happening with the Democrats in power. The Republicans were the favored winners, and even with that, Nixon barely defeated Humphrey. Check it out. Was there and remember!

[Polly Hennessey]

30. I also disagree.

You despair too much. Nothing has ever been won by those who doom and gloom all day long. I don’t know what will happen, but I remain hopeful.

[Freddie]

33. I was a kid but remember it well

Had Humphrey come out against the war in any way, he would have won. But he would not contradict the president he was serving under, and he was irreparably tainted with LBJ’s pro-war stance.

[uponit7771]

4. I don't see Trump looking strong in the face of the country going to hell

[Claustrum]

5. I agree with you.

That's why there are known right wing groups who does this kind of looting/rioting to peaceful protests from the left. They do it to change the subject and to fall back into their "law and order" message.

I really hope it's different when Trump is so just bad that most people know it's bs by now. But history has taught me that their tactics work. I just hope it wouldn't work this time.

[ck4829]

6. That'd be on us, not the protests then. Trump said "I alone can fix it", he'd end "American carnage"

How's he doing?

Did he fix 'it'? Did he end the carnage?

No?

Then we have to say it. Over and over again. To the point of irritation.

[LakeArenal]

7. You gotta be kidding...

POC are going to win the next election for us. Geez..... No way what people see is going to turn them to trump.

I have relatives that are cops. This crap breaks their hearts, too. The majority of cops are not violent racists.

Cops families are endangered by this crap.
Their kids have to go to school.

Big city cops seem to be more like military. My local cops are people we know. A lot work two jobs just like other citizens.

There is nothing like a cop when you need one.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

8. If this is our fear,...

...I think we should do something besides fretting. Our silence isn't going to win this election. We need leadership to acknowledge the pain and brutality. We also need legislation and swift, definite action.


There is still time. Look at the news. Our base is already galvanized.

[NoMoreRepugs]

10. How this unrest is perceived depends in large part how it

is described and reported by the MSM IMO - IF they do their individual jobs we will get rid of the RUMP.

[Downtown Hound]

11. Doubt it

Trump is the incumbent here whereas Nixon was a candidate. These are much more likely to be looked at as Trump's failures.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. Or you could look at it from the opposite perspective:

The whole country is in chaos from the pandemic, the protests and economic collapse - and he has done absolutely nothing but tweet and blame others. He walks out of press conferences; he hasn't expressed any sympathy for the families of the 100,000+ killed by the virus, and when he talked to George Floyd's brother all he did was upset him further (like he did to the widow of the soldier killed in Niger). He has made no effort at all to make anything better for anybody. Of course he'll try to use the unrest against us by blaming the "radical left" (he's already doing that, as is that crotchwart Barr) but in the long run, as covid-19 drags on and probably gets worse and the economy languishes, that won't convince anybody but the MAGAts who already support him that he deserves re-election.

[underpants]

14. I do too

I posted on Friday about how BLM really scared a lot of white people. I have no doubt that it - with outside instigation - turned a lot of votes. I don’t think it was a major factor but part of a set of smaller ones that added up.

This is a perfect opportunity for the Russians and their boy toy to mess with us. Easy to do through social media. Easier than it was in 2016.

This is a crazy level of protest too. I’ve never seen anything like this. Going for a drive down Monument Ave today - they spray painted all the statues last night from what I’ve seen.

Last point - suddenly Trump is using “MAGA” as a collective which is a perfect “with us or against us” tool.

[maryellen99]

36. And don't forget too that cops were being killed as well nt

[Butterflylady]

15. I must disagree

Who wants to raise a family in this kind of upheaval. No, I think this is going to hurt him big. No one wants a leader who can't get a handle on this disaster.

[unblock]

16. I don't see that because he's part of the cause of the protests

If the protests really had nothing to do with Donnie or his racist crap, then maybe he could be seen as a necessary law and order guy to calm the turmoil

But none of the above makes sense when applied to donnie. His bigotry and violence and contempt for law and order makes it nearly impossible for him to take political advantage of this situation.

But he might be able to take authoritarian advantage if he can get away with a crackdown....

[stillcool]

17. they're are plenty of cameras..

in all of these cities. Hopefully someone has video of the ones starting this stuff. Otherwise, it will be like what the U.S. has done all over the world. Pit one side against the other, tear it down, to build it up in your liking. It works. Look on the outside, cover up the inside. And, we will be like good Germans, and sit by and watch.

[bigtree]

18. c'mon, there's a raging pandemic

...record unemployment, bankruptcies and foreclosures on the way.

That's what anyone on the fence is concerned about, and it's a long slog through the bullshit that's already in front of Americans to get to some kind of blame for the state of the nation directed toward people protesting the murder of another black man at the hands of police.

[Lulu KC]

19. Disagree today, finally

Under all the grief of the past few days it finally hit me this morning. Look at all the people who have taken to the streets in peaceful protest! We are FINALLY seeing a national movement! Aerial views of multiple cities in all parts of the country! And this is during social distancing--it would be even more crowded if so many of us weren't lying low.

Yes, there are right-wing infiltrators and cops being really bad during the protests and kids whose brains haven't fully developed yet looting Louis Vuitton stores, but the call for change is real. Everything I'm reading from every city is saying that at least 95% of the participants are being peaceful.

Since the election, I've seen people in Europe and elsewhere saying, "What is wrong with you, Americans? Why aren't you taking to the streets?" We are. And it's against racism.

This is scaring Trump and his minions so they're even going to be wackier. But we are seeing courage.

[mitch96]

20. "outside agitators are not somehow centrally funded and controlled "

How could you find out if this is true? Would the FBI have taps on reich winger that would organize this?? If it's true there should be a path back to the perpetrators...
m

[zak247]

22. Makes a good point

The possibility is there if this gets too out of control with violence.

Ohio(18) Wisconsin( 10) Michigan(16) Pennsylvania(20) and Florida (29)

These are the key swing states and if Biden can win FL and Penn he's in big but these states are very fragile and close and anything can sway them.

People were all for the protests( even conservatives) but the violence-marred them and now they are counterproductive.

Though it may be that this will hurt Trump in that people will get so weary of his horrible leadership they will vote him out but you never know. We have to look at the polls and see if Trumps numbers go up or down or remain the same.

My post saying the same thing
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213509540

[zak247]

25. Understand

What we have to understand is this.

The fact that the polls in the swing states are still so close is an indictment on the utter stupidity and moral depravity and RACISM of those ignoramuses in those swing states that despite all of Trump's horrible actions would still vote for this madman. They still can be swayed by their racism and moral ignorance to vote for him.

So it's very possible if this get out of hand can influence the few swing states Trump is close in the polls.

I don't WANT TO HEAR ANY SELF-RIGHTEOUS RADICAL CRAP.

EVERYTHING MUST BE SUBSUMED TO BEAT TRUMP

IF HE WINS THERE WILL BE 10 TIMES MORE RACIAL VIOLENCE IN AMERICA

[qazplm135]

23. Too many people

are too afraid of Trump winning. That m-fer is the one who needs to be afraid.

[mshasta]

26. Here we go...with this type of comments

Planting fear and diving us

[StarfishSaver]

27. There are 99+ reasons Trump could be reelected. Don't even THINK about blaming it on black folk

Link to tweet

[ehrnst]

28. Trump wants the protests violent, so he can say that protestors are "the thugs"

I'm seeing my Trump supporting relatives dehumanizing the protesters in real time on social media.

However, if we keep posting incidents where the police were completely at fault, such as shooting at journalists and people on their porches, then we can do what MLK did with the photos of the peaceful marchers being firehosed and attacked by dogs.

That's all we have, because there is no way people aren't going to come out to protest police killings of unarmed POC.

[agingdem]

29. enough!

Last edited Sun May 31, 2020, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

the gloom and doom crap has got to stop..Trump decimated our lives and that's a fact...his 2016 election playbook no longer applies...this isn't about Russian interference...this chaos is about neglect and hate and greed..this chaos is about disease and death and hunger...and this election is about moving forward and joining the world and leading by example...and this election is about crawling over glass to vote Trump out...

[crickets]

32. Agreed! nt

[dustyscamp]

34. Dems will be there to vote him out for all the bullshit he has done, but

The vast majority of everyone else who could vote don't seem to give a shit about why Trump is a bad guy. If we don't convince them to vote blue before the other side does we are done.

[agingdem]

37. no...

this election is about getting the vote out...no more apathy...the forever trump assholes will vote their hate regardless...the Dems know it...this election comes down to one question and one answer.."what do you have to lose?...and the answer "our lives"...

[dustyscamp]

42. I wish I could

Link to tweet

It's going to be the same if we don't try to convince them and we keep on with our wishful thinking

[agingdem]

44. your numbers show it

Biden has to get the 49% who didn't vote to the polls... I get 15 emails/texts a day from the campaign..he's has my money and he's has my vote...now he has to get a portion of the 49% and he can do it...no hyperbole no bullshit just facts...

[linda52]

41. +1000

It's f'n tiring.

[Hoyt]

31. Law & Order rubes will turn out to vote. If protesters vote, as well as those tired of trump's crud,

we'll win.

But, yes, trump COULD turn this to his benefit, it's been done before.

[gratuitous]

35. Try asking these questions

"Where is President Trump? What is he doing about 100,000 dead from the pandemic? What is he doing about 40 million unemployed? What is he doing about these riots tearing apart American cities? Where is he? The country needs leadership, a firm commanding presence right now. Where is President Trump? Hiding out at Mar-a-Lago? Playing golf? The nation is in agony and all Trump can do is complain about how unfair things are for him, as if all of this is directed at him personally."

[Buckeye_Democrat]

38. It's hard to manage protests, and impossible in these cases.

People are enraged all over the country, and it might have been avoided if the murdering cops had been arrested right away. That's what would happen to anyone else!

And there's some bad participants among every group. One of the interesting things that I've seen on this board are some posters trying to deny what I can see with my own eyes on TV broadcasts. And the idea that they'd seem to identify with other members of their "group" so strongly, to feel compelled to do that, is very alien to me. People who look like me doesn't mean jack-squat in judging character.

I'm sure that Russia and internal fascist enemies are playing roles in stoking the anger and trying to promote more chaos, though. That's what they do.

[Kahuna]

39. trump will blame the continued unemployment on looters and a covid surge...

in covid on rioters (his term), for failing to social distance.

[BannonsLiver]

40. Defeatist pablum.

[honest.abe]

43. One could argue the opposite.

Many in the center are angry as well about this incident and sympathize with the protesters. The fact they have gotten violent is another issue and anyone who is reasonable can see its not directly the protesters fault. Many will blame Trump for root cause of all of this and also blame him for not calming the situation, in fact he is making things worse with his comments. More and more voters will see we need an intelligent calm honest leader like Biden who would be much better able to deal with the crises this country is facing now.

[crickets]

45. Well said. nt