Can we stop saying all police officers are horrible?

[imanamerican63]

I get the feelings are overwhelming right now, but look folks! There are many of them who do their jobs and uphold the laws. Just as there are bad peoples in every day life, there more good people who are doing their best to make this a better country. To criticize every good person for what the bad people do, is blaming you and me too.

[StarfishSaver]

1. Who is saying that?

[imanamerican63]

2. Reading some threads here on DU, Facebook & watching the news and

[StarfishSaver]

23. I haven't seen or heard ANYONE say that all police are bad

The closest I've seen - and I agree with it - is "If there are 1,000 good cops and one bad cop, but the 1,000 good cops don't do anything to stop the one bad cop, we have 1,100 bad cops."

[Hortensis]

55. Oh, I don't know. I just blew past a poster's take on the way

down the screen: "Policing in the US is not about enforcing law. It's about enforcing white supremacy."

Can't get around that DUer's condemnation of every lawmaker, cop, DA and judge in the nation, and all the ancillary workers. (Btw, I haven't read the article but am quite sure The Guardian didn't say that. It is the poster's own opinion.)

[MoonlitKnight]

57. The policing system is flawed

That does not equate to saying all police are bad.

We have a prison industrial complex. The police need to keep it fed.

[Hortensis]

63. Agree to all but the last. Neither need nor profits

are the police's. They're the White Power (aka Republican) Party's and those they serve.

But the claim I was answering was that DUers weren't saying this kind of very extreme, and ultimately both hateful and defeatist nonsense. People who don't value what they have won't fight to keep it from being destroyed.

And THAT above all is why over 40 million registered voters didn't bother to vote against the Republicans in 2016, in spite of all the promises of evil from the right. They didn't value the principles or the systems of justice built on them that were in desperate need of protection from the White Power Party.

[Blasphemer]

69. I vote despite not valuing this country's "principles" or the systems of justice built on them...

I vote because some part of me must have some hope of transforming those principles and systems. However, I do not condemn those that choose not to vote. It's perfectly valid to not believe in the myths that uphold the current system and to not believe that transformation is possible. Maybe it's defeatist but no one comes to such a conclusion in a vacuum.

[StarfishSaver]

68. How do you get "all police are bad" out of that?

[Hortensis]

70. None of them enforce the law, all enforce white supremacy?

How could any of them NOT be bad people unless they weren't humans at all with morals and ability to understand duty? Of course it's silly far beyond unrealistic.

But people who who not understand what is good that they need to fight to protect -- won't. Hundreds of years of often magnificent, highly moral legal principles applied in our nation every day -- denied as if they don't exist.

[Blue_true]

75. I have seen some posters make that claim. nt

[efhmc]

3. Not me.I didn't say it and I don't believe it.

[Blue_true]

74. There are some here saying that all cops are no good.

That is a gross over-simplification. I am AA and I have been let go from tickets by White cops because they seem to have concluded that I would fix the problem. I saw a White cop let a Black woman go who had a suspended license and registration, because she was already having a really fucked up day - he just would not let HER drive the car off, and he was exactly right in that.

The basic problem is that people that have harsh racial beliefs often end up with badges on, some way must be found to keep people like that OUT of policing the public.

[flamin lib]

4. Posted this late last night . . .

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213511420

[Generic Other]

52. Not bashing to be honest

There are just too many bad cops. They tarnish the badge. Cast a shadow on the good ones.

[Sukee]

5. Now take what you said.....

And have the police repeat the same thing regarding my community and our black men.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

21. I would imagine that ALL are not bad, but the police culture is...

...and faux sympathy for them is not helpful at all. Again, we've seen pictures of policemen on social media flashing white power signs; we know for a fact that many have Nazi paraphernalia, and if that's not enough, we know many of them have poor conduct records that are based specifically on their mistreatment of Black citizens.

Unless the "good cops" are willing to call out their Blue squad mates for terrorizing US citizens, there really isn't such a thing as a "good cop."

[Sukee]

67. Truth!!!!

[ibegurpard]

6. Why aren't the good ones doing something about the bad ones?

[imanamerican63]

9. Good point & I don't know.

[gopiscrap]

14. exactly

[AJT]

26. There is a code. I worked as an officer many years ago and

you never, NEVER, rat out other officers no matter what. Good cops turn a blind eye, it is part of the culture.

[Igel]

34. Sounds like a lot of my high school students.

And like a lot of the students where I attended high school.

[Mariana]

36. If they turn a blind eye when their colleagues commit crimes

then they aren't good cops, by definition.

[snort]

40. Guess I should refresh more often!

[snort]

39. That would be the definition of

all cops are bad.

[Igel]

31. Many of the "bad ones" don't appear bad with more context.

It's like the tweet that showed a cop viciously pushing a man with a cane so he fell.

He pushed the guy several times. Then the guy fell. He tripped over something on the ground in front of him--don't know if he saw it, don't know if the cop could see it through the guy's legs, through his shield, or through his face mask. Cop backed up. Two other cops (4 were in the line) rushed forward to help, then the cop who did the pushing came forward.

Take away: "Cop viciously pushed man with can to the ground."

That's how it was framed--before you watched the first frame of video you knew what you were to be looking for and seeing. Unless you questioned the authority of the tweeter, you wouldn't look carefully to form your own opinion. In fact, it was fairly clear that most of the responding tweets I saw didn't even watch the video.

You only see bad videos, your knowledge base only says cops are bad. Even if you do see evidence counter what you believe, you're much less likely to remember it (if you're human, at least). Confirmation bias is the first and worst bias. Racial bias is a small subset of it and relies on confirmation bias.

[Mariana]

42. Are you suggesting that it was acceptable for this cop

to shove this old man with a cane several times, as long as there weren't any obstructions in their path for the guy to trip over? Really?

Many of the "bad ones" don't appear bad with more context.

A cop who repeatedly shoves an old man with a cane looks like a bad cop.

[Bettie]

59. Did we see the same video?

because what I saw was cops shoving people who were not doing anything wrong. The old dude wasn't even given a second to get his cane under him, the cop just shoved him and kept shoving him. So, it is OK because it was only after several pushes that the guy fell?

The others coming and helping him up afterward doesn't negate the action the cop took.

On the other hand, the guy is lucky. He is white.

[kacekwl]

61. I saw that video and he tripped on nothing.

He was pushed twice and then pushed again and fell. Credit two other officers who helped him up.

[Blue_true]

77. Good cops very seldom make the 6pm Newscasts, very, very seldom.

Like a squeaky wheel, it is the bad apples that make the News 95% of the time.

[Archae]

38. Ask Frank Serpico.

[Generic Brad]

41. Same reason good Republicans don't stop the bad ones?

Retaliation. Excommunication from the tribe. Fear. Laziness. Threats.

[tishaLA]

56. Yup

They might not put their lives on the line directly by turning in the bad cops, but their backup is going to take longer, which puts their lives in danger indirectly. Or they won't get promoted. Or the power structure will get revenge some other way.

[Blue_true]

76. Because for a beat cop and even supervising officers, it is not that simple.

Reform starts from the top, with the Mayor/Government and the Police Chief. A good police chief that has support from politicians has a chance of reforming a troubled department.

What can we do? Vote in all elections. Hold elected officials accountable for police misconduct, replace those officials until we get some that address the problem. Be relentless in voting and holding elected officials accountable until the problem is fixed.

[Hav]

7. Way to argue a red herring

There may be a tiny, tiny minority here that seriously argues that. There are more though who argue that the so called good cops don't do enough to speak out when they witness behavior from the bad apples.
But this angle only seems to be an attempt to counter any reasonable discussion to call out what is wrong. It won't work.

When a white supremacist can become the president of the police union, don't come here and argue that not all are bad.

[dalton99a]

19. +1. Police unions are a big problem - they are the thugs who enforce the code of silence

and prevent any real reform from taking place

[krawhitham]

29. I'm union to the core, 3rd generation union member. But all Police Unions need to be dismantled

[dalton99a]

32. +1. Police unions give a bad name to unions

[The Magistrate]

8. When Police Begin Policing Their Own, Sir, Complaints On That Line Will Cease

If one officer in ten is a 'bad cop', and the other nine tolerate that officer's misbehavior, shield him and shelter him from consequences, you do not actually have nine 'good cops' and one 'bad cop'. You have ten bad cops. Police officers know who the miscreants in their ranks are, just like people in any job know who are the slackers and drones and who are the sound and diligent workers. When police act against officers who brutalize, arrest them, testify against them, drive them from the force they serve in, it will be possible to describe the general run of officers as good people who uphold the law and serve the public.

[dalton99a]

20. Bingo.

[ecstatic]

51. +1000. nt

[Marrah_Goodman]

10. Perhaps the good cops could step up and stop the bad cops...

But right now that does not happen. They are complacent through their silence and that does not make them good.

[Hoyt]

11. Agree. It's like saying all the protesters are violent. Just not true. However,

it would be nice when 4 policeman are at the scene of an arrest like George Floyd's, if just one of them told the one with his knee on Floyd's neck to "Let him up."

[imanamerican63]

13. Absolutely!

That is something I will never understand.

[chowder66]

54. FWIW. One cop did say something

The complaint lines up with what many nationwide have seen in video of the incident and adds context for what other officers at the scene were doing. One officer on the scene expressed worry for Floyd and asked Chauvin twice if Floyd should be rolled onto his side.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/29/george-floyd-criminal-complaint-against-derek-chauvin/5286757002/


It wasn't enough.

[gopiscrap]

12. NO WE CAN'T

the "good cops" look the other way

the "good cops" cover up for their fellow officers

the "good cops" come up with excuses for what is happening

to me if you're a cop or a prosecutor, you're part of the problem

[uponit7771]

15. Strawman noted

[qazplm135]

16. All? No.

But so many/enough that ultimately the safest course of action as a Black man is to assume that any officer I meet is willing to take my life with little to no provocation.

Until "the good ones" do something about "the bad ones" then they share in their sins.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. did a cop write this

[mshasta]

18. And they still arresting with extreme deadly force

Tear has them, rubber shooting, arresting with force ..............etc...etc
Yeah.....they are fukcing angels

[Ron Green]

22. Saying they're all horrible is wrong, but so is

honoring them as a class.

[marmar]

24. The Blue Wall of Silence culture is horrible.

[Blue_true]

78. Yes. That sits at the very base of the problem.

When a cop is saying racist shit, other cops have to realize that is going to lead to a bad outcome at some point, but even the ones that are not racist keep their mouths shut because that is easier and safer for them.

[LizBeth]

25. Every cop that giggles when fellow officer throws up a white power hand sign, every cop that stays

quiet with a Floyd, every cop that watches another two arm shoves an 100 lb women to a curb and moves on, is part of the problem. I am sorry you do not see the obvious. But that is NOT a good cop.

[LAS14]

35. You're the one not seeing the obvious. Not being able to actually absorb what the OP said.

The OP did NOT say all cops are good. I very much doubt that he/she thought the 3 standing around the murder were good cops. We'd all be in a better position if people would just hear what other people say.

[LizBeth]

46. The OP is wrong. That is not saying ALL cops are bad. But way too many to reduce it to just a few.

[uponit7771]

60. +1, and knocks over elderly men with canes

[LizBeth]

62. +1

[CrispyQ]

27. IMO, occupations that have authority over others,

attract a higher percentage of people who like to have authority over others. Law enforcement, management, politics, all come to mind. A lot of the people drawn to these occupations want to abuse that power.

[krawhitham]

28. Refusing to take a stand and turn in the bad apples spoils the whole barrel

[Corgigal]

30. They aren't.

What people may not understand, that the good cops can have things happen to them. No one knows how to kill , like a cop. The video below, they believe cops did it. Ambushed by two brothers. FBI is now stationed here.

[Corgigal]

43. He was a involved in the drug unit.

His dog Figo was not with him that night.

[LAS14]

33. Totally agree! nt

[Arthur_Frain]

37. Hyperbole won't be working very well for either side from here on out.

We have to begin to talk about this problem though, we can’t simply sweep it under the rug, again, and wait until next time. The problem is we don’t really know how widespread this problem is.

At a martial arts class in 2016, a classmate whom I knew as being in law enforcement said in passing “If Hillary gets elected there will be a civil war”, and it was said in a manner which led me to believe that he would be an active, and willing participant in said war, and not in a way that had to do with his job. It got me to wondering how many misogynists made it into to police force under the “the blue line does not waver, the blue line never rats its own” policy that police forces seem to all enjoy.

I ran into some of this in my own job sadly, a product of unionism. Had we been true professionals, we’d have as a professional group, parted ways with them, and invited them not to return. We never did. In some (not as rare as I’d like) situations, they became union stewards. It sucks, but it’s human nature in a way. Nobody wants to make the hard calls and do the confrontation, so the infection remains and festers. Which is just what it did in my old job.

How much of that has taken place in the police force? In the military? I hope we don’t end up finding this out the hard way, because I don’t think we are going to like the answer.

Yes there are good cops. But I see some law enforcement officers I know sporting right wing accessories in their off time. I know they are not called out on it by the good cops. It’s not done. In fact, I think we should be quite worried about who’s side law enforcement and the military would come down on if and when the orange shithead makes his final play. I don’t think I can say with any certainty I know what the answer will be.

But I think shithead is stupid enough to force the issue. So I think we may get to find out.

Note: My brother is a police officer in CA. I don’t talk to him much, but I do have skin in this game.

[captain queeg]

44. My experience with cops has largely been limited to traffic violations

In those cases I’ve pretty much felt neutral; I broke the law and paid the price. There was a cop who came after me at a political rally many years ago. On the whole I don’t care for them but I realize that just like many institutions there are “good” and “bad” ones. I do think they are given a pass way too often.

[Voltaire2]

45. There are a lot of horrible cops.

Better?

[Demsrule86]

47. Well until we have a way to get rid of the bad ones...all of them are subject to this...

[MyMission]

48. Of course not All police are brutal thugs

But enough are, and their unions and policies and the legal system makes allowances for much of their bad behavior, and the good ones, of which there are many, are forced to look the other way, or transfer, or leave the force, or sometimes even report the infraction.

One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch. Many rotten apples (scattered in numerous police barrels throughout the US) unfortunately taints the rest.

I think that's why many folks have negative impressions and opinions about the police. And as someone said above, authoritarian types are more inclined to go into law enforcement. Those are the ones that ultimately ruin the reputation of the police force.

There are still many good cops out there. And many bad ones too. And there are too many indifferent ones, who look the other way and don't intervene. Many folks put this group with the bad, but if they aren't actively taking part in the brutality I tend to believe they aren't bad, just indifferent.

And I believe if the culture of police officers and departments underwent an overhaul, those indifferent officers would acclimate or embrace a new way of policing. And that change is needed. We do need police in our society. And we need and deserve police officers we can trust and respect.

[stillcool]

49. Can we say police across this country..

are murdering Americans...and it doesn't matter? Even when live video is available for all to see. Have any cops spoken out about this? If it weren't for cellphones we wouldn't know. I cringe to think of the deaths that have gone unnoticed. I don't think anyone is all bad, or all good. I'm sure there are Nazi's who were good people.

[Bettie]

50. They are complicit

if they refuse to act or speak out when the "bad ones" do awful things.

They are complicit when they see white supremacy/racism in action and turn away with a shrug and "not my problem".

Not all cops are awful, but those "good ones" who just stand there and watch are tacitly supportive of the actions of the "bad apples".

[Blue_true]

79. That is a really good term, because I believe that it summarizes the core problem. nt

[Mariana]

53. By all means. If you've been saying that, stop. nt.

[tishaLA]

58. According to reports, there was a good cop at the George Floyd murder

and asked Chauvin to change position as he had his knee on Mr Floyd's neck. Good for him! And then he said nothing. The cops filed a report that was substantively untrue and that good cop said nothing. He went along with the whole charade, hiding behind the blue wall of silence.

[Voltaire2]

66. Could you please stop murdering him?

Nope.

OK, never mind.

And then is complicit in filing a false report.

How is that a 'good cop'?

[tishaLA]

72. I think it's clear from what I typed

that I don't regard him as a good cop.

[JI7]

64. MOST ARE BAD

they protect each other.

this route of behavior would not be tolerated in many other jobs.

many of them are stupid as fuck also.

[Blue_true]

80. Like someone posted, the work seems to attract "authoritative" and "reactionary" types.

I have dealt with a few cops that seemed thoughtful, they always seemed out of place, but those are exactly the type of people that should be in policing. If just one of the cops that dealt with Mr. Floyd and stopped and thought "maybe the guy really didn't know that he was passing a bad $20 bill, let's slow this up, put him in the back of a cruiser and figure this out", maybe we wouldn't be where we are today.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

65. They're just a few bad apples...

...but a few bad apples spoils the barrel.

It's funny how so many people leave that out.

The good apples are not throwing the bad apples out. That's why there's a problem. When it comes to an institution that has that much power and that much responsibility, you have to throw the bad apples out the moment you see them. You don't push them to the bottom of the barrel and look at the shiny ripe apples instead. You still have rotten apples on the bottom and they're spreading that rot to the rest of the barrel.

[Blue_true]

81. If you look at some of the past and recent incidents,

the killer cops almost ALWAYS have many complaints filed against them by the type of people that they end up killing. The complaints should have set off alarms well before those cops killed people.

[Celerity]

71. ...

[Blue_true]

73. There are a lot of ethical, good cops out there.

Many are likely wondering whether it is worth it for them to stay in the business. I say that they should, because they are exactly the type of person that should be wearing a badge.

[SharonClark]

82. I'll never say all cops are bad because

the handful I know through my work with them in the neighborhood are hardworking and ethical.

I also know there are local bad cops because several have been fired for their actions over the last few years.

[JonLP24]

83. It depends on the police department

Some cultures are toxic and there is a blue wall of silence that allows it to continue.

There were 4 cops and none of them stopped the man from dying. That is a problem.