Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
Sun May 31, 2020, 09:58 PM May 2020

All of these declarations and admonitions against looting. Looters don't likely read DU

...there just is no connection between folks here and looting, so the back and forth is senseless and just silly.

I get the sense that some think they're appealing to protesters in these posts scolding people who steal, but protesters aren't looting, looters are, and there's virtually or otherwise little way to reach them by posting here.

Moreover, a party with our constituency should recognize the root causes of this kind of unrest, and address those factors. That's much more productive than the public scolding. We used to recognize this dichotomy between political goals and the realities of the real world. Hungry folks will steal. People who don't have other means will take advantage of situations where goods are there for the taking. It's wrong, but it's part of a society which regularly subjugates people into jobs which don't pay enough to live and no jobs at all. That's just reality. Debating those who point these things out in response won't change that landscape, at least overnight, no matter how much one might object to it being said.

I saw a fine group of protesters from Howard U. today, marching, I think, to the WH. Nearly everyone was firmly masked-up and these good folks were in earnest to be heard. Those are the actions and voices we need to highlight if our concern is losing focus on our election chances. Lift up those who are doing the right thing, and hopefully avoid conflating these very correct protests with the actions of folks who have nothing at all to do with them.

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
All of these declarations and admonitions against looting. Looters don't likely read DU (Original Post) bigtree May 2020 OP
Looting scares the rich I_UndergroundPanther May 2020 #1
I'm sure the "corporate CEO" of this convenience store will sleep soundly... brooklynite May 2020 #10
Thanks for your concern MrsMatt Jun 2020 #27
Thanks for your concern for small businesses over black lives. Iggo Jun 2020 #29
These small businesses are owned by MrsMatt Jun 2020 #31
How many black lives were saved when a Native American owned store ... 11 Bravo Jun 2020 #37
It is an expression of frustration, and a cathartic outlet as I am sure you realize still_one May 2020 #2
Some people are just rationalizing why Voltaire2 May 2020 #3
This☝️ I_UndergroundPanther May 2020 #5
Me too. I'm too old, but my heart is out on the streets. Voltaire2 May 2020 #6
Seeing looters run around with arm fulls of clothes and groceries is just sad. Merlot May 2020 #4
When you suffer I_UndergroundPanther May 2020 #7
how do you know they are poor? Skittles May 2020 #8
some are opportunists from outside the towns, out of state bigtree May 2020 #9
I am familiar with Minnesota Skittles May 2020 #15
Jake Paul one of the richest Youtubers Generic Other Jun 2020 #35
k&r Demovictory9 May 2020 #11
Looters don't read DU and neither do most SharonClark May 2020 #12
it's clearly getting conflated with the actual protests bigtree May 2020 #16
But white people are breaking windows and looting...what does that mean?? LeftInTX Jun 2020 #22
c'mon, you know well that wasn't said or implied by me. bigtree Jun 2020 #25
One of the contexts of the looting, the already hitting mass unemployment and impoverishment, greenjar_01 May 2020 #13
+1 stillcool May 2020 #14
right, some of these areas have been underwater for decades bigtree May 2020 #17
Yes,great post. I_UndergroundPanther Jun 2020 #32
I believe the dumbest thing.... quickesst Jun 2020 #18
Agreed. n/t kacekwl Jun 2020 #28
the way I see it....... quickesst Jun 2020 #36
K&R for the post and the discussion. crickets Jun 2020 #19
Thank you. Jamastiene Jun 2020 #20
What about when Wypipo loot? LeftInTX Jun 2020 #21
Exactly how I feel... AntiFascist Jun 2020 #23
Every time i hear that "looting is unacceptable and counterproductive!" ibegurpard Jun 2020 #24
Thank you for this StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #26
What if they stole a smartphone? lame54 Jun 2020 #30
Silly, neither do trump voters but we post opinions on him daily....... USALiberal Jun 2020 #33
research this bigtree Jun 2020 #34

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,463 posts)
1. Looting scares the rich
Sun May 31, 2020, 10:00 PM
May 2020

And reminds them without money they are no better than poor people.

Oh the poor corporate CEOs. They are losing stuff.

MrsMatt

(1,660 posts)
27. Thanks for your concern
Mon Jun 1, 2020, 08:15 AM
Jun 2020

about the small business owners who's livihoods are now destroyed.

It's happening in MY city and it's MY neighborhoods that are burning.

Have someone burn your own damned house down and see how you like it.

11 Bravo

(23,926 posts)
37. How many black lives were saved when a Native American owned store ...
Mon Jun 1, 2020, 05:40 PM
Jun 2020

in Minneapolis was burned to the ground?

Or the Indian restaurant next door?

The brother of the murdered man has begged for an end to the looting and destruction.

But you're probably more aggrieved, and therefore know better.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,463 posts)
5. This☝️
Sun May 31, 2020, 10:03 PM
May 2020

If I had transportation I'd be there. There is no way
For me to get anywhere.

I am with the protesters in
Spirit tho,whatever that's worth.

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
4. Seeing looters run around with arm fulls of clothes and groceries is just sad.
Sun May 31, 2020, 10:02 PM
May 2020

But if it scares the rich, well, there's that.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,463 posts)
7. When you suffer
Sun May 31, 2020, 10:10 PM
May 2020

Economic abuse for generations,the idea of good food for once,and clothes that fit is not wrong.

Poverty grinds down on your soul,especially in a country that blames victims of poverty for being poor.

People have internalized that self serving message the rich pound into us.

I'm glad some poor people got some food and clothes. Corporations in other circumstances wouldn't even miss those missing goods,if it wasen't a riot/protest by POC and the poors.

They wouldn't have any way to get decent things otherwise because they're poor,and abused by the rich.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
9. some are opportunists from outside the towns, out of state
Sun May 31, 2020, 10:20 PM
May 2020

...and as I state in the op, are not controllable by scolding those who point to root causes of these types of actions.

After all, we're debating about communities like Minneapolis which has areas of abject poverty.

The poverty rate in Minneapolis is 20.7%. One out of every 4.8 residents of Minneapolis lives in poverty. The Poverty Rate of black residents in Minneapolis, Minnesota is dramatically higher than the national average of 25.2%.

32,487 of 75,251 black Minnesotans live below the poverty line. Approximately 18.3% of the total population of Minneapolis, Minnesota are black. https://www.welfareinfo.org/poverty-rate/minnesota/minneapolis

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
35. Jake Paul one of the richest Youtubers
Mon Jun 1, 2020, 02:09 PM
Jun 2020

was captured on film with a bottle of vodka inside as looting raged in a mall in Arizona, so yours is a valid question. Lots of these type of opportunists wreaking havoc the past few days.

The poor always get the short end of the stick. They should not be getting all the blame in the looting.

In my state, organized well-dressed looters descended on high-end malls in the area. Probably gang members. They were not hungry for food or justice.

SharonClark

(10,014 posts)
12. Looters don't read DU and neither do most
Sun May 31, 2020, 10:25 PM
May 2020

of the people, or maybe none of the people, DUers make appeals to. People are expressing themselves.

Additionally, there are some posts that try to justify looting or even saying that they support looting. Some people, including me, disagree and want to express that.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
16. it's clearly getting conflated with the actual protests
Sun May 31, 2020, 10:47 PM
May 2020

...and that's not a new thing.

The people debating in favor of looting aren't likely in the streets tonight, or tomorrow, for that matter. Like I told one anonymous poster today, it's not revolution to encourage criminality or violent acts, it's merely incitement. It's a silly back and forth, which, to it's supposed end encouraging vulnerable people to place themselves in the way of armed police forces, is irresponsible and wrong.

Reading the debates, so detached from the people participating, is surreal and wasting.

LeftInTX

(25,309 posts)
22. But white people are breaking windows and looting...what does that mean??
Mon Jun 1, 2020, 01:41 AM
Jun 2020

Are we supposed to sympathesize with outside agitators?

 

greenjar_01

(6,477 posts)
13. One of the contexts of the looting, the already hitting mass unemployment and impoverishment,
Sun May 31, 2020, 10:28 PM
May 2020

is rarely noted. It's only going to get worse. Employment literally fell off a cliff two months ago for a society where many, if not most even middle class people live check to check. There's certainly an element of thievery and greed to the looting, but it seems silly to mention and inveigh against it as if we're not falling into a period of extreme poverty as a society. And a period of extreme poverty surrounded by outward signs of extreme wealth. Talking about looting without at least acknowledging obscene, medieval levels of wealth inequality is really odd.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
17. right, some of these areas have been underwater for decades
Sun May 31, 2020, 10:48 PM
May 2020

...right now must seem like dystopian hell in these impoverished communities

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,463 posts)
32. Yes,great post.
Mon Jun 1, 2020, 12:27 PM
Jun 2020

People have to realize other people's lives are in danger,maybe some looting is done from a place of scarcity.

Other looters like proud Bois or magats,coming in to discredit the valid protest are scumbags.

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
18. I believe the dumbest thing....
Mon Jun 1, 2020, 12:13 AM
Jun 2020

.... is the ridiculous claim by so many that equates looting and destruction as just another outlet for protest. This is a direct insult to the peaceful protesters who are on the street for the right reason. A person has to be desperate for recognition as a warrior in the fight for racial equality to offer up such a lame excuse to exonerate those people who are using the protest as an opportunity to steal from others where there is only a single motivation. Greed.

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
36. the way I see it.......
Mon Jun 1, 2020, 05:29 PM
Jun 2020

.... if looting and carnage was a legitimate and acceptable form of protest, then it would be 500 X more widespread. That vast majority who are participating in peaceful protest understand that it is neither legitimate nor acceptable.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
20. Thank you.
Mon Jun 1, 2020, 01:31 AM
Jun 2020

All of this tsk tsking is getting kinda preachy and repetitive. There are PLENTY of peaceful protesters out there. Why blame them all for a few who are doing the other stuff?

Why not instead point out how Trump is not helping with his gas throwing Tweets? Why not discuss how we can win in November? That is what we should be discussing.

AntiFascist

(12,792 posts)
23. Exactly how I feel...
Mon Jun 1, 2020, 03:33 AM
Jun 2020

and there was also a ton of looting after the LA Riots involving a very diverse crowd as well, so its nothing new.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
24. Every time i hear that "looting is unacceptable and counterproductive!"
Mon Jun 1, 2020, 03:40 AM
Jun 2020

i just keep coming back to this: we wouldn't be in this situation if we'd actually taken the accounts of police abuse seriously and done something about it years ago.
I refuse to allow the focus to be removed from that.

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
33. Silly, neither do trump voters but we post opinions on him daily.......
Mon Jun 1, 2020, 12:30 PM
Jun 2020

Research “discussion boards”!

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
34. research this
Mon Jun 1, 2020, 12:32 PM
Jun 2020

...to the actual point made in the op.


President Lyndon Johnson constituted the Kerner Commission to identify the genesis of the violent 1967 riots that killed 43 in Detroit and 26 in Newark (above, soldiers in a Newark storefront), while causing fewer casualties in 23 other cities. (Collection of the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture)


The 1968 Kerner Commission Got It Right, But Nobody Listened
Released 50 years ago, the infamous report found that poverty and institutional racism were driving inner-city violence
by Alice George
smithsonianmag.com
March 1, 2018

Pent-up frustrations boiled over in many poor African-American neighborhoods during the mid- to late-1960s, setting off riots that rampaged out of control from block to block. Burning, battering and ransacking property, raging crowds created chaos in which some neighborhood residents and law enforcement operatives endured shockingly random injuries or deaths. Many Americans blamed the riots on outside agitators or young black men, who represented the largest and most visible group of rioters. But, in March 1968, the Kerner Commission turned those assumptions upside-down, declaring white racism—not black anger—turned the key that unlocked urban American turmoil.

Bad policing practices, a flawed justice system, unscrupulous consumer credit practices, poor or inadequate housing, high unemployment, voter suppression, and other culturally embedded forms of racial discrimination all converged to propel violent upheaval on the streets of African-American neighborhoods in American cities, north and south, east and west. And as black unrest arose, inadequately trained police officers and National Guard troops entered affected neighborhoods, often worsening the violence.

“White society,” the presidentially appointed panel reported, “is deeply implicated in the ghetto. White institutions created it, white institutions maintain it, and white society condones it.” The nation, the Kerner Commission warned, was so divided that the United States was poised to fracture into two radically unequal societies—one black, one white.

____President Lyndon Johnson constituted the Kerner Commission to identify the genesis of the violent 1967 riots that killed 43 in Detroit and 26 in Newark, while causing fewer casualties in 23 other cities. The most recent investigation of rioting had been the McCone Commission, which explored the roots of the 1965 Watts riot and accused “riffraff” of spurring unrest. Relying on the work of social scientists and in-depth studies of the nation’s impoverished black urban areas, or ghettoes as they were often called, the Kerner Commission reached a quite different interpretation about the riots’ cause...

read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/1968-kerner-commission-got-it-right-nobody-listened-180968318/




The Kerner commission confirmed that nervous police and National Guardsmen sometimes fired their weapons recklessly after hearing gunshots. Above, police patrol the streets during the 1967 Newark Riots.Bud Lee, Collection of the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture)

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»All of these declarations...