General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAll of these declarations and admonitions against looting. Looters don't likely read DU
...there just is no connection between folks here and looting, so the back and forth is senseless and just silly.
I get the sense that some think they're appealing to protesters in these posts scolding people who steal, but protesters aren't looting, looters are, and there's virtually or otherwise little way to reach them by posting here.
Moreover, a party with our constituency should recognize the root causes of this kind of unrest, and address those factors. That's much more productive than the public scolding. We used to recognize this dichotomy between political goals and the realities of the real world. Hungry folks will steal. People who don't have other means will take advantage of situations where goods are there for the taking. It's wrong, but it's part of a society which regularly subjugates people into jobs which don't pay enough to live and no jobs at all. That's just reality. Debating those who point these things out in response won't change that landscape, at least overnight, no matter how much one might object to it being said.
I saw a fine group of protesters from Howard U. today, marching, I think, to the WH. Nearly everyone was firmly masked-up and these good folks were in earnest to be heard. Those are the actions and voices we need to highlight if our concern is losing focus on our election chances. Lift up those who are doing the right thing, and hopefully avoid conflating these very correct protests with the actions of folks who have nothing at all to do with them.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,463 posts)And reminds them without money they are no better than poor people.
Oh the poor corporate CEOs. They are losing stuff.
brooklynite
(94,535 posts)MrsMatt
(1,660 posts)about the small business owners who's livihoods are now destroyed.
It's happening in MY city and it's MY neighborhoods that are burning.
Have someone burn your own damned house down and see how you like it.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)MrsMatt
(1,660 posts)POC and immigrants.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)in Minneapolis was burned to the ground?
Or the Indian restaurant next door?
The brother of the murdered man has begged for an end to the looting and destruction.
But you're probably more aggrieved, and therefore know better.
still_one
(92,190 posts)Voltaire2
(13,027 posts)they arent out on the streets.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,463 posts)If I had transportation I'd be there. There is no way
For me to get anywhere.
I am with the protesters in
Spirit tho,whatever that's worth.
Voltaire2
(13,027 posts)Merlot
(9,696 posts)But if it scares the rich, well, there's that.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,463 posts)Economic abuse for generations,the idea of good food for once,and clothes that fit is not wrong.
Poverty grinds down on your soul,especially in a country that blames victims of poverty for being poor.
People have internalized that self serving message the rich pound into us.
I'm glad some poor people got some food and clothes. Corporations in other circumstances wouldn't even miss those missing goods,if it wasen't a riot/protest by POC and the poors.
They wouldn't have any way to get decent things otherwise because they're poor,and abused by the rich.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)bigtree
(85,996 posts)...and as I state in the op, are not controllable by scolding those who point to root causes of these types of actions.
After all, we're debating about communities like Minneapolis which has areas of abject poverty.
The poverty rate in Minneapolis is 20.7%. One out of every 4.8 residents of Minneapolis lives in poverty. The Poverty Rate of black residents in Minneapolis, Minnesota is dramatically higher than the national average of 25.2%.
32,487 of 75,251 black Minnesotans live below the poverty line. Approximately 18.3% of the total population of Minneapolis, Minnesota are black. https://www.welfareinfo.org/poverty-rate/minnesota/minneapolis
Skittles
(153,160 posts)my grandparents were farmers there.......and yes they were poor
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)was captured on film with a bottle of vodka inside as looting raged in a mall in Arizona, so yours is a valid question. Lots of these type of opportunists wreaking havoc the past few days.
The poor always get the short end of the stick. They should not be getting all the blame in the looting.
In my state, organized well-dressed looters descended on high-end malls in the area. Probably gang members. They were not hungry for food or justice.
Demovictory9
(32,454 posts)SharonClark
(10,014 posts)of the people, or maybe none of the people, DUers make appeals to. People are expressing themselves.
Additionally, there are some posts that try to justify looting or even saying that they support looting. Some people, including me, disagree and want to express that.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...and that's not a new thing.
The people debating in favor of looting aren't likely in the streets tonight, or tomorrow, for that matter. Like I told one anonymous poster today, it's not revolution to encourage criminality or violent acts, it's merely incitement. It's a silly back and forth, which, to it's supposed end encouraging vulnerable people to place themselves in the way of armed police forces, is irresponsible and wrong.
Reading the debates, so detached from the people participating, is surreal and wasting.
LeftInTX
(25,309 posts)Are we supposed to sympathesize with outside agitators?
bigtree
(85,996 posts)greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)is rarely noted. It's only going to get worse. Employment literally fell off a cliff two months ago for a society where many, if not most even middle class people live check to check. There's certainly an element of thievery and greed to the looting, but it seems silly to mention and inveigh against it as if we're not falling into a period of extreme poverty as a society. And a period of extreme poverty surrounded by outward signs of extreme wealth. Talking about looting without at least acknowledging obscene, medieval levels of wealth inequality is really odd.
stillcool
(32,626 posts)bigtree
(85,996 posts)...right now must seem like dystopian hell in these impoverished communities
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,463 posts)People have to realize other people's lives are in danger,maybe some looting is done from a place of scarcity.
Other looters like proud Bois or magats,coming in to discredit the valid protest are scumbags.
quickesst
(6,280 posts).... is the ridiculous claim by so many that equates looting and destruction as just another outlet for protest. This is a direct insult to the peaceful protesters who are on the street for the right reason. A person has to be desperate for recognition as a warrior in the fight for racial equality to offer up such a lame excuse to exonerate those people who are using the protest as an opportunity to steal from others where there is only a single motivation. Greed.
kacekwl
(7,017 posts)quickesst
(6,280 posts).... if looting and carnage was a legitimate and acceptable form of protest, then it would be 500 X more widespread. That vast majority who are participating in peaceful protest understand that it is neither legitimate nor acceptable.
crickets
(25,975 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)All of this tsk tsking is getting kinda preachy and repetitive. There are PLENTY of peaceful protesters out there. Why blame them all for a few who are doing the other stuff?
Why not instead point out how Trump is not helping with his gas throwing Tweets? Why not discuss how we can win in November? That is what we should be discussing.
LeftInTX
(25,309 posts)AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)and there was also a ton of looting after the LA Riots involving a very diverse crowd as well, so its nothing new.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)i just keep coming back to this: we wouldn't be in this situation if we'd actually taken the accounts of police abuse seriously and done something about it years ago.
I refuse to allow the focus to be removed from that.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)lame54
(35,287 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Research discussion boards!
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...to the actual point made in the op.
President Lyndon Johnson constituted the Kerner Commission to identify the genesis of the violent 1967 riots that killed 43 in Detroit and 26 in Newark (above, soldiers in a Newark storefront), while causing fewer casualties in 23 other cities. (Collection of the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture)
Released 50 years ago, the infamous report found that poverty and institutional racism were driving inner-city violence
by Alice George
smithsonianmag.com
March 1, 2018
Pent-up frustrations boiled over in many poor African-American neighborhoods during the mid- to late-1960s, setting off riots that rampaged out of control from block to block. Burning, battering and ransacking property, raging crowds created chaos in which some neighborhood residents and law enforcement operatives endured shockingly random injuries or deaths. Many Americans blamed the riots on outside agitators or young black men, who represented the largest and most visible group of rioters. But, in March 1968, the Kerner Commission turned those assumptions upside-down, declaring white racismnot black angerturned the key that unlocked urban American turmoil.
Bad policing practices, a flawed justice system, unscrupulous consumer credit practices, poor or inadequate housing, high unemployment, voter suppression, and other culturally embedded forms of racial discrimination all converged to propel violent upheaval on the streets of African-American neighborhoods in American cities, north and south, east and west. And as black unrest arose, inadequately trained police officers and National Guard troops entered affected neighborhoods, often worsening the violence.
White society, the presidentially appointed panel reported, is deeply implicated in the ghetto. White institutions created it, white institutions maintain it, and white society condones it. The nation, the Kerner Commission warned, was so divided that the United States was poised to fracture into two radically unequal societiesone black, one white.
____President Lyndon Johnson constituted the Kerner Commission to identify the genesis of the violent 1967 riots that killed 43 in Detroit and 26 in Newark, while causing fewer casualties in 23 other cities. The most recent investigation of rioting had been the McCone Commission, which explored the roots of the 1965 Watts riot and accused riffraff of spurring unrest. Relying on the work of social scientists and in-depth studies of the nations impoverished black urban areas, or ghettoes as they were often called, the Kerner Commission reached a quite different interpretation about the riots cause...
read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/1968-kerner-commission-got-it-right-nobody-listened-180968318/
The Kerner commission confirmed that nervous police and National Guardsmen sometimes fired their weapons recklessly after hearing gunshots. Above, police patrol the streets during the 1967 Newark Riots. (© Bud Lee, Collection of the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture)