Want to end systemic racism?

[jcmaine72]

Change the system. It's time to dump capitalism. Let's face facts: We'll never have a fair and equitable society as long as we continue to embrace this toxic, divisive, and oppressive system. All of our institutions are tainted by it. It's time to start fresh with something better.

Racial justice and economic justice are intertwined. You can't have one without the other. Our current system is simply too fraught with inherent inequities, especially for POC, for it to ever be reformed into a viable catalyst for positive change. Socialism is the only answer, and, like it or not, it's coming.

I know many here don't want to hear the merits of Socialism praised out loud, this despite the fact that they know capitalism, and the noxious avarice it produces, has rotted our society from the inside out. It's an election year. I get it. Liberals, especially ones old enough to remember the incessant red baiting of the Cold War period, are particularly sensitive about be labeled "Reds" or "Commies".

That said, however, in light of recent events, no one can deny any longer that our society is fundamentally sick. If we don't enact real change soon, what's happening in cities across America now will seem like a tranquil interlude compared to what's to come.

We need genuine racial justice in our society, not just lip service to it. We can't achieve racial justice without economic justice....and we can't have economic justice under capitalism.

Peace

[brush]

1. Give us an example of a successful socialist government, then we'll talk.

[Igel]

2. The Soviet and Chinese systems were also racist.

In ways that hearken back to the 1920s in the US.

[brush]

3. Also not successful. They are both oligarhic and/or state capitalist systems now.

[Blue_true]

4. They still are racist. Why do you think white supremacists so love Russia? nt

[radius777]

5. Exactly. Racism/sexism/etc exists under any

economic system, whether socialism or capitalism, and any political system, whether democracy or autocracy.

IOW, social justice is about human rights.

An upper class black man like Christian Cooper was nonetheless viewed as subhuman - his class didnt save him from being viewed otherwise.

[jcmaine72]

6. POC suffer far worse under capitalism

This whole system stinks. It's racist and oppressive. If you live in a large city, just take a look out your window for proof.

[JI7]

18. THey are suffering more because of Racism, not capitalism. In fact without Capitalism they would be

worse off .

With capitalism at least they can support each others businesses .

in a socialist system the racist govt would deny them anything the way Trump tried doing with covid 19 .

[jcmaine72]

21. In our society the two walk hand in hand

Capitalism feeds racism. Racism thrives under capitalism.

[JI7]

24. Nope , White Racists are the problem as has been since the founding of this country

you can't excuse white racists just because they might not be doing well economically or for whatever reason.

They vote for trash like Trump and MCconnell and blame minorities for their shitty lives.

[jcmaine72]

25. And the grease that has always kept the wheels of white racism turning is capitalism.

The American capitalism is especially pernicious in this regard and has always been. Big business always needs cheap labor and a permanent underclass to exploit. POC have suffered immeasurably under this system, and will continue to do so as along as it exists.

Remember, the issue at hand here is systemic racism. It goes beyond the personal beliefs of a handful of drool-dripping rednecks. Our predatory system creates a structure and system where evil like that not only thrives, but is necessary to keep the wheels turning.

[JI7]

27. That's just excusing White Racists. They are fine with a gross wealthy white pig like Trump

and other wealthy white trash.

So it's not capitalism they have an issue with.

It's minorities not suffering they have a problem with.

[jcmaine72]

30. Quite the contrary. It's an attempt to get to the actual root cause of the problem.

Anything else amounts to simply side-stepping the heart of the matter, which, more accurately and effectively, could be argued excuses white racism.

Systemic racism cannot be eradicated without changing the system. That's the bottom line.

[JI7]

32. the problem is white racists when it comes to the problem with racism

[jcmaine72]

33. Our system fosters that white racism

Depends on it, in fact. It's great for the economy. Always has been.

But, whatever. We'll agree to disagree.

[jcmaine72]

12. And how is our system a resounding success?

Have you looked outside your window lately? Unless you're comfortably ensconced in some suburban or rural bubble somewhere, you might have noticed that POC especially don't feel very successful under our "successful" capitalist system.

Hey, slavery was a capitalist success. It reaped huge profits for the slave owners and the white men who auctioned those slaves off at market. But it wasn't very humane. At least Socialism...REAL socialism (not the patriarchal, male dominated military dictatorships of the former USSR and Eastern bloc) tries to address the inherent inequities of society. Capitalism, by its very nature, cannot. Only the bottom line matters, and the bottom line hurts POC in a white-dominated, predatory economic and social system like the one we currently have.

But that's okay. Eventually these protests will run out of steam and we can all go back to kidding ourselves what a wonderful country we live in, under the best system even devised by dead, slave owning white men. And then another young African American will be murdered by a cop somewhere, and it'll start all over again. And the same people will wring their hands again, sigh, and continue to blame everyone and everything but the actual root cause of the ingrained societal inequity that makes murders like George Lloyd's a fait accompli in our "successful" system.

But what the hey! Target and Walmart will eventually reopen, and we'll be able to buy (with huge, shit-eating smiles on our faces no doubt) all the suntan lotion and spatulas that 12-year-old Laotian and Indonesian children can manufacture at a slave wage under our successful capitalist system.

[GeorgiaPeanut]

7. bwaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

How ironic since it was the African Americans who defeated the socialist candidate.

Thanks for the laugh though.

[jcmaine72]

8. Our cities are burning for a reason.

But some will laugh at anything, I suppose.

[GeorgiaPeanut]

9. The laugh was at your post not our burning cities

[jcmaine72]

26. Oh, so you actually had nothing to contribute to the conversation taking place.

My mistake. I understand now.

[radius777]

11. far-left and far-right white individuals

are the ones mainly breaking the windows with hammers, committing arson etc - there to kickstart the mayhem - there for reasons having little to do with racial justice.

Note that these are very blue/diverse/urban areas that are being destroyed (many black and brown owned businesses) and not red/rural/white areas.

[Raine]

13. Yes exactly, very on point. nt

[JI7]

15. Most black people who are protesting over racism , injustice are not doing that

[roamer65]

10. Mixed socialist/capitalist system.

Aka European socialism.

[DFW]

16. We call it social democracy here, not socialism

The times "socialist" regimes have been in power here, both in Eastern Europe, and in France under Mitterand and Hollande, they have been abject failures. "Well regulated market economies" would be more accurate (as opposed to the mostly unregulated version in the USA).

[roamer65]

34. U are correct.

[JI7]

14. lol, This shit again . The Bird Watcher was not economically disadvantaged

and the reason many black people and other minorities are economically disadvantaged is BECAUSE of racism. The same goes for many lgbt who have high homeless rates is because they have been kicked out by their parents for being LGBT even though their family life was often economically secure.

Black Americans were doing well but they had their wealth stolen from them because of their race.

Many of the innocent black people who have been killed were doing fine when it comes to economics.

And socialist and communist systems have a lot of bigotry. Look at black people in Cuba . Ask the minorities in the Soviet Union .

[JI7]

17. minorities would be worse off without capitalism since much of their community support

is through supporting each other in business. Our govt is full of racists who deny help to minorities .

More recently we saw it with the coronavirus and Trump trash denying and taking away help from certain areas and minorities were the ones most hurt.

Wealthy people DO need to pay more in taxes to provide for many govt programs and services though.

But ,no the solution is not to get rid of capitalism . Although it does need regulation and as i said the wealthy need to pay more taxes.

[jcmaine72]

20. The government (a proper one. Not Donnie's) has the authority and incentive to hire more monorities

into the system to initiate and enforce those positive changes. Private entities, no matter how well meaning, will always have capital at risk and will, therefore, always have to prioritize profit over principle. It's one of the many inherent, irredeemable flaws of capitalism.

The government can be controlled. People's personal greed and money lust cannot once unleashed. They become like all junkies: Addicted to poison. Only this particular poison doesn't destroy them. It destroys the people most in need.

[JI7]

23. Majority of White people vote for Trump and other shitty Republicans

They aren't going to support a proper govt .

Democrats try what they can once in office but it's difficult since majority of white people continue to vote for shitty republicans.

[jcmaine72]

28. For obvious reasons, I have to walk on eggshells regarding what the two parties

"try" to do, and actually accomplish, vis-a-vis racial and economic justice. So, I will simply and politely refer you to my original statement: Racial and economic justice are one and the same. You can't achieve one without the other. Our entire system, both historically and currently, is based on inequity. Consequently, anyone who is an integral part of that system, helping to maintain it in any way, is part of the problem, no matter how well-meaning or otherwise skilled at telling people what they want to hear they are.

[JI7]

29. They are not one and the same when you have black people who do well having a bunch of Karens

on their back demanding why they are where they are .

So capitalism is why white people on a jury can't convict white people who kill innocent people of color ?

I mean, seriously ? this is just excusing white racists and pretty much like the excuses made by men who beat their wives/girlfriends .

[jcmaine72]

31. At any rate. I think we both stated our arguments clearly and without genuine animus...

...which can be quite a feat in the current environment. We'll part ways here with (hopefully) respect for each other's opinions.

All the best to you.

[JI7]

19. So White People are unable to Convict Killers of innocent black people because of Capitalism ?

[Hav]

22. Absolute nonsense

This is one of the many reasons why Bernie lost. He also couldn't see anything but economic issues and was tone deaf to racial issues.
The notion that racism would magically disappear under socialism is a fantasy and has no basis in reality. Racism and prejudice existed regardless of any economic system. And let's just assume there'd be more economic equality in socialism which is debatable as well. The reason behind many instances of "soft" racism is that racists cannot stand that people of color can enjoy the same privileges and lifestyle. That's why they think that they don't belong in their neighborhood, they don't want to share the same place, the same park or the same pool because they are racists and not because they are angry about economic injustice.