General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCNN: "Are we now living in a military state?" Discussion/ thoughts on Insurrection Act
Well, he did it. trump invoked the Insurrection Act, and is promising this will be extended nationwide. Watching CNN right now, Don Lemon is asking, "is the president declaring war on the American people?"
Thoughts?
Background reading:
The following Atlantic article discusses the legal and Constitutional issues regarding invoking the Insurrection Act. The discussion is in relation to immigration, but the concepts still apply, particularly in exploration of how the Act, and its use, has changed over time. It's worth it to read the entire article.
Yes, Trump Can Invoke the Insurrection Act to Deport Immigrants
Congress has delegated too much power to presidents.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/can-trump-use-insurrection-act-stop-immigration/589690/
As documented in a comprehensive three-volume history by the U.S. Armys Center for Military History, the Insurrection Act has therefore been used repeatedly throughout American history to help quell civil unrestespecially before the rise of well-trained (and increasingly well-equipped) modern local police forces. In virtually every case, the act was used in circumstances in which there was no serious dispute that local authorities were inadequate to the task at hand, and where domestic deployment of federal troops was seen as a means of restoring civil and civilian order, not subverting it.
Read: The alarming scope of the presidents emergency powers
But alongside the increasing capabilities of local law enforcement to handle domestic disorder has come increasing political opposition to domestic use of the military for the same purposesas not only unnecessary, but also perhaps even coercive. It was politics more than any legal concerns that led President George W. Bush to decline to invoke the act to help restore order in Louisiana after Hurricane Katrina. Politics is also a big part of why were now in the longest period in American history without a domestic deployment of U.S. troops under the Insurrection Act; its been 27 years since President George H. W. Bush sent federal troops to Los Angeles to help restore order after the Rodney King riots. Its not just that local authorities today can handle most law-enforcement crises; its that calling in federal troops (as opposed to the state National Guard) had, at least until now, come to be seen as crossing a constitutional Rubicona measure that should be saved for truly existential crises when there is no dispute over the need for federal military intervention.
Lawsuits will certainly challenge Trumps invocation of the Insurrection Act to assist in immigration enforcementa purpose for which its never previously been used. But the text of the statute would seem to be on the presidents sideunderscoring just how broad the power is that Congress has delegated to the president, and just how much we have historically relied on political checks, rather than legal constraints, to circumscribe the presidents authority. As partisan tribalism has increasingly come to mark virtually every policy debate in Washington, those political checks have proved increasingly ineffective.
The following is a paper that explains and examines the role of PCA and Insurrection Act in preparation for proposing a PCA Court to provide judicial certification of any use of the IA. Interesting idea, but the main reason for posting this is in the usefulness of the initial examination of the two Acts. I admit I've only given it a partial skim so far.
Katrina, Federalism, and Military Law Enforcement: A New Exception to the Posse Comitatus Act
Sean McGrane, University of Michigan Law School
https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1273&context=mlr
Edit to add:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act
chia
(2,244 posts)crickets
(25,952 posts)AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)crickets
(25,952 posts)stillcool
(32,626 posts)is dying...any day. And then they die, and it hits you like a ton of bricks.
Freethinker65
(10,001 posts)Trump needs continued rioting, looting, and arson to take complete control
mtngirl47
(987 posts)In any case---I agree with Don Lemon---we have just become a dictatorship---just as we all predicted.
crickets
(25,952 posts)that DUers can add to help make sense of what is going on right now.
crickets
(25,952 posts)CNN is calling this the photo op that it is, and are saying that Posse Comitatus still supersedes the Insurrection Act since he did not receive a request for it from any governor. Are they correct?
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)crickets
(25,952 posts)sarisataka
(18,497 posts)Think about it logically.
Say a state collapsed into insurrection , the governor is dead, legislature cannot meet, no one is in control to give their NG orders or ask for help. The President has active military available to restore order.
But he cannot use the military because of posse comitatus. He has to wait for the state to ask for help...
The Insurrection Act allows the President to intervene on his own authority.
mvd
(65,161 posts)So just FUCK TRUMP! The people will not allow this to be a dictatorship!
still_one
(92,061 posts)for the government to "scare" people enough that draconian measures will happen.
The stakes are even higher this time around.
mvd
(65,161 posts)I hope not. We cant let Trump destroy our country.
still_one
(92,061 posts)out and vote, because I really believe if trump wins a second term, the country is over
mvd
(65,161 posts)We have to be very vigilant. Trump is no ordinary occupant of the WH.
malaise
(268,715 posts)Fuck this madman
sarisataka
(18,497 posts)See my post 26
still_one
(92,061 posts)every large metropolitan city.
The looting and vandalism was over-taking the protesters' message, and the "plantation" society, and unfair justice occurring specially to African Americans where the focus is being shifted away from Civil Rights to the chaos occurring.
We better get people registered and out to vote, especially in those critical swing states, because that is what will determine the future of the country for decades to come.
Those who argued in the 2016 general election that there was no difference between republicans and Democrats have lost that argument based on what has happened in the last three and a half years.
The survival of our country depends on what happens in November
I don't want to hear the divisive garbage coming out of the David Sirotas and Glenn Greenwalds. Our survival depends on winning the election
Locrian
(4,522 posts)look out. And he'll use it in November.
sunonmars
(8,656 posts)Worked for getting rid of Saddam.
crickets
(25,952 posts)Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)glass and fire (which we know they will) then this could help him. It would be the highest irony for the rioters to help Trump.
crickets
(25,952 posts)She begins discussing that trump has to have approval and support of local governors, mayors and local police, but unfortunately is interrupted before she can finish her point.
Then Cooper speaks to Whitmer, who is saying that trump does need governors' approval and that she does not see many states granting that. (This is appears to be debatable, and a sticking point.) She then points out that rather than declaring civil war on one another, she wants to deal with COVID and the economic problems her constituency faces, and that that would be far more constructive path to healing. She does not want to have the feds come to her state because she feels it would be throwing gas on the fire and needlessly militarizing the situation.
Anderson Cooper's prior guest (missed the name, sorry) makes the point that the reason for trumps PHOTO OP is because he was upset about being made fun of for being in the bunker last night.
crickets
(25,952 posts)Whitmer is saying that trump does need governors' approval and that she does not see many states granting that. (This is appears to be debatable, and a sticking point.) She then points out that rather than declaring civil war on one another, she wants to deal with COVID and the economic problems her constituency faces, and that that would be far more constructive path to healing. She does not want to have the feds come to her state because she feels it would be throwing gas on the fire and needlessly militarizing the situation.
Whitmer calls the morning phone call as well as trump's speech dangerous.
crickets
(25,952 posts)The military can only come in
1. at the request of the governors.
2. without need of governors' requests only in order to vindicate Constitutional rights, e.g. Eisenhower and desegregation. The president cannot do this under current circumstances without the request of the states' governors because no vindication of Constitutional rights is involved. He feels trump won't actually go through with the threat nationwide because he knows the governors won't let him.
Toobin feels that this addresses any issues regarding governors' and states' powers vs. the Insurrection Act.
Posse Comitatus still holds.