I know nobody here will agree with me on this, but...

[Speck Tater]

The solution to the middle east outrage over insults to religion is quite simple. Publish some new outrageous insult to their religion every day, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, until they finally get tired of acting like a bunch of idiots and calm the hell down. They're sure as hell not going to go on some ridiculous rampage every day of every week of every month of every year. Eventually they'll just get over it. It's like exposing a patient to small doses of an allergen until their body gets used to it. Or exposing someone to small doses of something they fear, like snakes or spiders, until they finally grow accustomed to it and get over it.

That's basically what happened during the Enlightenment when each new scientific discovery exposed the true believers to something that outraged them until finally they got over it and scientific progress could actually get a foot hold.

It's called "desensitization".

In psychology, desensitization (also called inurement) is defined as the diminished emotional responsiveness to a negative or aversive stimulus after repeated exposure to it. It also occurs when an emotional response is repeatedly evoked in situations in which the action tendency that is associated with the emotion proves irrelevant or unnecessary. Desensitization is a process primarily used to assist individuals unlearn phobias and anxieties

-- wikipedia

Now tell me I'm wrong.

[oldhippie]

1. I just think it would be a good idea .....

.... not to be around them while they are going through the "cure."

[Cha]

51. Really.

Whew..

[Angry Dragon]

2. I think it would work best if you did that to EVERY religion

then we would be on the correct path

[Speck Tater]

4. Amen to that! nt

[RKP5637]

78. +1,000 +++ n/t

[msanthrope]

3. Okay. You are wrong. nt

[former-republican]

5. Some people just look for a reason to riot

[abumbyanyothername]

45. Yes.

Usually people who are unemployed, lacking decent shelter, without sufficient energy resources, having the water supplies cut-off and under the thumb of ruthless rulers installed by an imperial foreign power.

[former-republican]

50. And then some people get the government they deserve

[snooper2]

6. I would take it a step further..

have people who want to enlighten the human race to the next level, like myself, contribute to single global org. who own a bunch of planes.

We air drop literature to every country around the World explaining science, why mythology is bad, DVDs of "Through the Wormhole" with Morgan Freeman, jokes about religion, the works..

Just fly through other countries airspace dropping leaflets and materials for year after year.

Now, when those countries start enforcing no-fly zones is when it gets tricky. Are some of the folks who participated in Air America still around

[loli phabay]

8. lol glad you thought about the getting shot down bit.

[iemitsu]

69. myths need to be explained and understood

so that people's lives are not constrained by superstition but myths, themselves, are not bad. imo mythology helps one figure out what it means to be human. like literature, myths explain much about being a being, they provide models for living with ourselves and others, and myths structure our daily and yearly calendars. they permeate every rite of passage in every human's life. they are important. they just aren't based on anything demonstratively true. myths are not science. they are magic.

about the propaganda drop, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him read.
knowledge acquisition is a tricky thing. religion is not the only thing that gets in the way of learning.
cognitive dissonance is one example of "things that get in the way of learning". its not a product of religion its just the way we work.

rioting because someone has insulted one's god ought to be discouraged. rioting does nothing to establish truth. it is a mob behavior usually inspired by someone who does not have the mobs interests in mind.
rioting is like the mini-version of the wars we wage to bully others into doing things our way.

making and distributing insulting films ought to be discouraged too. this particular one is hateful.

we all labor under the yoke of some system or another. we don't choose the political, social, economic, religious, etc. circumstances that dictate our realities. we need to remember that most people have very little control over the situations and events that they are a part of.

in each of these events there is someone or several someones who are guiding the events.
the film insulted everyone (including me). not everyone instinctively riots when insulted.

[nc4bo]

7. It's hard to understand the concept of free speech if you've never had the privilege experiencing

free speech.

[Speck Tater]

9. Then the cure is to expose them to free speech so they can learn.

It's either that or leave them to remain repressed. That's not very compassionate.

[nc4bo]

11. I know Speck Tater.

I know. Religious oppression, political oppression and very frustrated people that know there is more out there in the world especially with access to the internet.

Your way may be effective and fast but what are the repercussions? It's not like these people actually have a government that allows that type of freedom of expression. Stoning, beheading, burning are all fates in waiting.

[Bluefin Tuna]

10. It might backfire the other way

Muslim zealots might decide that "small" protests aren't getting their point across and that they really need to ramp it up with some sort of big-time, violent, one-time act that might express their frustration on a much greater scale.

[calimary]

29. Welcome to DU! That would be my concern. Never did like picking scabs.

Sometimes they get infected.

We need you - glad you're here! There's an election to nail down!






Now get to work.

[sad sally]

12. During Chimpy's rule, it was called something else.

Bush: "You Have To Keep Repeating Things To Catapult The Propaganda"

[Nay]

13. I agree wholeheartedly. Nothing else has worked.

[SmileyRose]

14. Problem is they aren't rioting because of religion

They are rioting because of poverty, tyranny and hopelessness. Or whatever words one might use. And they've decided we have had a hand in creating the hardships they live with every minute of every day of every year.

[RobertEarl]

17. They are exercising their free speech

And this thread is full of people calling them, well, all kinds of names.

If the govt. really wants to keep stuff like this from happening, instead of paying attention to Occupy and probably even DU, they need to preview the hate films and make sure disclaimers and/or truth meters are applied and ready to be broadcast anytime a trash film like this comes around.

Seems as if the govt. was caught flat footed and surprised.
Which probably will, soon enough, cause a suspicious sort to claim CIA lack of intelligence again. Like with 9/11.

[Speck Tater]

30. So the solution to their intolerance...

...is for us to curtail OUR freedom of speech? I don't think so. If they want to live in the modern world they better develop a little thicker skins. That's the reality of the 21st century, not the 12th century.

[RobertEarl]

37. Heh

Ya know what we could do? Make sure the money for their oil goes into the people's hands and not Monarchs.

You really want to help them? Then leave them alone. Our presence is intolerable for them and what you seem to be saying is "Tough shit, we are here to bomb you into the 21st century. Oh, and take all your oil."

[Bluenorthwest]

81. That video was only broadcast in the Middle East, by an Egyptian commentator

That piece of shit was not broadcast here at any time, in any form. This trash did not 'come around' and it was not produced openly. Your entire framing of this event is false, sir. It was not broadcast here. An Egyptian TV star broadcast it there, and he also claimed it was broadcast here.
Your assessment does not meet the 'truth meter'.

[JohnnyRingo]

21. I believe it has more to do with religious intolerance than you think

From what I understand, Islam has very little wiggle room for infidels. It's not like they're Catholics who pick & choose then leave an extra dollar in the plate.

[MichiganVote]

15. Yeah? Think the next families to lose their loved ones will thank you?

Time for u to check in the white coats.

[Odin2005]

16. I agree with you completely.

I like your analogy to the Enlightenment. A lot of Enlightenment folks were extremely anti-clerical and outraged a lot of socially backward, superstitious, and deeply religious folks in rural areas

[Comrade Grumpy]

18. Go ahead. Let us know if your theory turns out to be correct.

[cr8tvlde]

19. Stunning Ignorance. Stunning Entitlement and Superiority.

Anyone who can knit together snakes, spiders and the Enlightenment into some Psychobabble Social Experiment for Those People. Perhaps we can arrange some monkeys and put electrical thingies on them with wire babies and stand behind the one way glass and see what happpens. Ann Romney has been outdone.

[JohnnyRingo]

20. They may take the term "scorched Earth" literally

And torch the whole planet. ...God's plan, you know.

[Johonny]

22. would they also need a free press?

They don't hear half the information that goes on the world. They are using this totally nothing of not even a movie so effectively because most people over their have no clue that it is a nothing event because there is no one to tell them the true scope of the movies real western influence. You can publish as much anti-islamic stuff as you want, I mean the right wingers publish crap all the time. It is generally ignored by the powers that be over there, until they need a little unrest. Then they hype something that almost no one ever saw, cared about or would ever care about as a big deal. So your plan won't work because most of the societies over there are not built to make them work. They are built to try to keep the powers that be in charge anyway possible. I have no idea how the revolutions will end up over there, but the total hype of this nothing event into mass riots, says meet the new boss same as the old boss to me.

[Lil Missy]

23. That is a dumb idea. n/t

[DrewFlorida]

24. How about just treating their beliefs with the same respect we expect for ours.

And not accepting violence from either side as acceptable behavior!

Usually the simple solutions are the more effective solutions.

[Speck Tater]

31. You mean like the respect we at DU give to Republican beliefs? nt

[DrewFlorida]

40. You are confusing lies with beliefs!

[Logical]

46. LOL, what beliefs are you talking about?

Nazi?
Hating gay marriage?
Sexism?
Abortion is evil?

[DrewFlorida]

70. Imagine there's no heaven? It isn't hard to do. No hell below us. Above us only blue.

[bhikkhu]

25. Experiment on a child first - single one out and call him "stupid little shit" every day

with the appropriate level of scorn in your voice. By the time he grows up, he should be just fine with it.

If you think that works well, try it on a woman - single one out and call her a "dumb bitch" regularly, every time you see her, over a long period of time. See how long it takes before she doesn't mind at all.

...and so on.

If you think that nobody agrees with you, you might think about why that is?

[uppityperson]

27. Thank you for the apt analogy. I am finding it difficult to be on DU right now due to the bigotry &

misunderstandings of what is happening. The simplistic thinking combined with bigotry are a bit much to take. NOTE, I am not calling the OP simplistic or a bigot, but remarking on what I am reading on DU.

[Speck Tater]

34. So I'm supposed to feel sorry for some violent troglodyte who kills our people?

Tell you what. If you happen to be an airplane hijacked by a terrorist, why don't you just offer to sooth his bruised ego and sing Kumbaya with him? Yeh. That'll defuse the situation.

It's all well and good to aspire to tolerance and compassion and lovingkindness. But you can only be as peaceful as your neighbor allows you to be, and there comes a time when results are what matters.

It just seems to me that so far nothing has worked to quell the violence. Don't we need to try something? Anything? Even drastic measures to bring some peace and tranquility to the world? Or do we just stand by and passively let the violence go on unchecked?

[bhikkhu]

38. Not at all, but its rare individuals who commit the crime

Not muslims in general.

The world is becoming more peaceful. Statistically we are on the right track. You wouldn't know that if you just watch the news, but the "the news" is inherently events that are exceptional.

[Speck Tater]

39. I know that you are right.

And I know I'm over-reacting to recent events.
And I know my suggestion is ridiculous,
but dammit, I'm getting sick of this shit!
And I just need to vent my spleen.
(Short of blowing up an embassy, of course.)

[abumbyanyothername]

52. WWJD?

Well . . . "Put away your sword."

I think that's the message.

[Speck Tater]

53. WWMD?

What would Mohammed do?

[abumbyanyothername]

60. The only story I know off the top of my head about the prophet is

In the midst of a battle, blood flowing everywhere, Mohammed had an enemy in hand, knife drawn prepared to slit his throat.

The enemy spat into the face of the prophet.

Who paused, then let the enemy go free.

When asked by one of his men why he let the enemy go free, the prophet replied: "When he spat in my face I was filled with rage. And in my rage I wanted to murder. But to kill another in a fit of rage is a sin and an offense to God. So I had to set him free to save my soul."

Or something like this. I heard the story through a friend, so it may not be direct from the Qa'aran.

[Speck Tater]

63. Wow! He's a hero. I guess I'll convert to Islam. nt

[uppityperson]

26. The bigger problem is not just "insults to religion" but how they have been treated by

their own governors as well as the USA. It goes wayyyyyyyy beyond any "insults to religion". Yes, that is part of it, but not the whole thing or even the larger picture.

[Live and Learn]

28. I'll let you know as soon as I become desensitized to them

making derogatory statements about liberals and progressives. Been over 10 years now and it still pisses me off.

[Speck Tater]

32. Well I knew it would not be a popular idea.

I guess the status quo is preferable. Just go ahead and react, after the fact to each new act of violence and intolerance from the violent radicals.

[tama]

33. OK, let's see what happens with your approach

nigger nigger nigger
cunt cunt cunt
nigger nigger nigger
cunt cunt cunt
nigger nigger nigger
cunt cunt cunt
nigger nigger nigger
cunt cunt cunt
nigger nigger nigger
cunt cunt cunt
nigger nigger nigger
cunt cunt cunt
...

[Speck Tater]

35. Fine. If there's nothing we can do to bring peace to the region

then let's just get the hell out of there and let them destroy each other.

[tama]

36. Just an experiment

Lets see if it's get alerted and how fast, and what jury says. If this don't get a hide, maybe there's hope for your suggestion to work.

[GoneOffShore]

73. The Lenny Bruce gambit -

And I'm not alerting on it.

[tama]

74. Thanks for the vid :)

[Duppers]

41. Wrong!!! nt

Nt.

[RandiFan1290]

42. You're wrong

You people really need to grow up.

[Speck Tater]

44. Well, I guess that settles it then.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[abumbyanyothername]

43. Or we could just try to make their lives better

so they have something invested in the social order.

[Speck Tater]

47. It's my understanding

that a lot of the trouble makers are kids from middle class families. Bin Laden was extremely wealthy. Poverty is not the cause, as much as we would like it to be that simple.

[abumbyanyothername]

57. Sigh

do not confuse the spark or the fuse with the fuel.

Bin Laden was recruited and trained in terror by the CIA and then went rogue. If you read the writings of Bin Laden's Imam, the basic theme is that the west is taking our oil resources and we are not receiving just compensation.

[Speck Tater]

61. See my post #39 above

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1354074

[tama]

54. Best way to do that

would be to make your own lives better, so good that you wouldn't need military+financial empire to satisfy the oil addiction etc.

Peace starts from home, not from worrying about others.

[abumbyanyothername]

58. Agreed.

But I think that we need to balance inner and outer focus.

Living in LA I am surrounded by the self-improvement for the sake of SELF movement.

[tama]

66. LOL

From what popular culture tells, it's the most superficial self-improvement movement ever. And gotta say, silicon boobs are huge turn off.

Would be more fun if it wasn't also so very sad and tragic.

[HiPointDem]

48. or maybe we could just quit bombing them, invading and occupying their countries, & badmouthing

their religion.

it would be easier and cheaper.

[KoKo]

82. Indeed... n/t

[shintao]

49. We could end Middle Est Violence Tommorow

Simply, gather up our troops and come home, and shut down the embassys.

[Speck Tater]

55. I agree. That solution is better than mine, but

something that simple and effective will never be done.

[drm604]

56. That's already happening to every religion, every country, every ethnicity, every belief; every day.

It's called the internet.

Why did they react to this particular one? Who knows, but I suspect it wasn't just because some random insult among many just happened to catch someone's attention.

[dimbear]

64. Because some folk in the Arab media picked it up and pushed it as provocation.

Happens over here, too. Some provocative piece of artwork nobody would have heard of becomes a cause for the Christians to claim persecution and -bingo - instantly famous.

[drm604]

65. Exactly.

[joshcryer]

59. There are probably daily insults to Islam.

They are just not covered by the media.

Type "Koran burning" into YouTube. Hundreds of hits.

Twitter alone probably has dozens of hits an hour bashing Islam.

This is just the media playing its own narrative out, either for ratings or to cause controversy.

[pnwmom]

62. That's already happening. Every day, all over the world, people are insulting

Muslims, Christians, and the members of every other religion.

The very existence of the Western countries, powerful countries with very little Muslim influence, is perceived as an insult. Why does Allah allow us to exist despite our evil, non-Muslim ways?

I don't think they'll ever get used to us. We're a threat to the fundamentalists' beliefs about their place in the universe -- as they are to ours.

[The Midway Rebel]

67. I can do better than that: Maybe THEY ain't the ones with a fucking problem. nt

And I think your historic theory is bullshit.

There are lots of reasons for the Scientific Revolution and desensitization ain't one of them.

[Kablooie]

68. I like it. Who's in charge?

[cali]

71. This is the stupidist idea I've heard yet on this subject

First of all desensitization often doesn't work. Secondly, in psychology it applies to the individual not the collective. And what if it eventually did work but at the cost of destroying lives and relationships?

this is beyond stupid and ridiculous.

Fucking yikes.

[1-Old-Man]

72. Its already destroying lives and relationships in case you hadn't noticed

you think with the fires are burning and the bullits wizzing through the air lives and relationships are not being destroyed? How is this fellows idea any worse than one not offered? And maybe you can explain how a midset can apply to individuals but not to the collection of individuals who share that midset?

[cali]

76. I thought I was clear: this "idea" would make things much, much, much worse

and it's hardly a new piece of information that individual behavior is different from collective behavior. It's about as established as anything in behavioral science that individual behavior does not translate into group behavior. Two different things entirely.

Does taunting a cornered person or animal really make sense to you? How interesting.

[slampoet]

75. You're full of it.

You can very easily do this yourself. If you thought it would work you'd be doing it instead of just talking about it here.

[Frances]

77. Do you think that would work

with fundamentalists in America if film after film attacking Jesus was released?

Humans are humans, so if it would work regarding the Muslim religion, it would work regarding Christian religion.

Personally, I do not like to see this kind of attack on any religion.

[lunatica]

79. And then they'll learn to love us and we'll all live happily ever after

[bigbrother05]

80. When we see an end to the annual outrage over the "War on Christmas"

Then we'll discuss your idea. When a culture reacts to an intentional provocation, the proper course is to address the cause, not the response.

In this case you are advocating treating the symptoms and not the underlying disease. Religious and cultural intolerance won't be solved by getting used to it, it will be solved by tolerance and understanding on both sides.

[piratefish08]

83. let's 'desensitize' our own Christian Fundamentalists here in the US!! then if the program is

successful we can roll it out to the religions of the globe!


I think I might be on board........

[backscatter712]

87. I'll drink a Dr. Pepper to your proposal! n/t

[CreekDog]

84. Sure, why wouldn't we agree with something that gets a lot of people killed, like last week

you're so cavalier, it's as if your life isn't in danger should your advice be heeded!

i wonder why that is?



FAIL

[kestrel91316]

85. I totally get your point, and it's very tempting to do just that,

for the reason you say.

I just have serious reservations about it working.

[backscatter712]

86. I used to get posts hidden or deleted by mods for referring to God as an "imaginary sky-daddy"

Now such remarks don't draw attention at all.

I'd say the OP's proposal has merit!