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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLook for charges on killer to be upgraded too.
The local DA undercharged. The jury can always convict on lesser included charges if they cant convict on 2nd or maybe even 1st degree murder.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)to increase the pain and pressure on George Floyd's neck whenever he cried out, it's ridiculous to argue he lacked the time or foresight to form intent (premeditation), especially with Officer Lane warning him twice to turn Floyd on his side and bystanders narrating the entire thing and saying, "He can't breathe" and "He's not moving."
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 3, 2020, 03:12 PM - Edit history (1)
Premeditation is much longer and more distant in time and rarely occurs in the midst of the incident that caused the death. It is clear that Chauvin intended to do him bodily harm, but they would have to prove that he intended for him to die, which will be extremely to establish beyond a reasonable doubt.
Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #6)
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StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Whatever
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)(a) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of murder in the first degree and shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life:
(1) causes the death of a human being with premeditation and with intent to effect the death of the person or of another;
(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence, either upon or affecting the person or another;
(3) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of the person or another, while committing or attempting to commit burglary, aggravated robbery, kidnapping, arson in the first or second degree, a drive-by shooting, tampering with a witness in the first degree, escape from custody, or any felony violation of chapter 152 involving the unlawful sale of a controlled substance;
(4) causes the death of a peace officer, prosecuting attorney, judge, or a guard employed at a Minnesota state or local correctional facility, with intent to effect the death of that person or another, while the person is engaged in the performance of official duties;
(5) causes the death of a minor while committing child abuse, when the perpetrator has engaged in a past pattern of child abuse upon a child and the death occurs under circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to human life;
(6) causes the death of a human being while committing domestic abuse, when the perpetrator has engaged in a past pattern of domestic abuse upon the victim or upon another family or household member and the death occurs under circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to human life; or
(7) causes the death of a human being while committing, conspiring to commit, or attempting to commit a felony crime to further terrorism and the death occurs under circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to human life.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.185
Please note that (a), the only provision of this statute that bears any connection to this case, requires premeditation and specific intent.
You're welcome.
Cirque du So-What
(25,932 posts)WTF is that anyway? Is that like accidentally murdering someone?
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)ridiculous charge in this case but it does exist...
LastDemocratInSC
(3,647 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)and "evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life." That's a slam dunk here and would not require any proof of what Chauvin was actually thinking or intended. It is not necessary to prove that Chauvin intended for Floyd to die - just that he intentionally engaged in the a reckless, wanton, or illegal act that caused the death.
Second degree murder requires proof of intent, which is much harder, but proof of premeditation is not necessary.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)First degree murder is very difficult to prove - it's a specific intent crime - and I don't think this case meets the elements. It will be very difficult to prove that Chauvin intended for Mr. Floyd to actually die and that he put his knee to the neck with the specific intent of killing him.
One of the problems with some of the past prosecutions of police officers and other killers of black men is that the prosecutors over-charged them and couldn't convince 12 jurors to agree on a conviction on the harsher charge. In some of the cases, the prosecutors were criticized because people suspected they over-charged on purpose, knowing that 12 jurors would never agree to convict.
I understand the desire for justice, but we also need to be realistic. I'd rather him get convicted and do time for a second or third degree murder than to walk out a free man because a jury didn't convict him on a first degree murder charge.
Jersey Devil
(9,874 posts)One was a bouncer inside and the other outside a bar for several years. If there was bad blood between them then maybe specific intent can be proven.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Chauvin planned out his murder in advance. If there were such evidence, Keith Ellison would have charge him with first degree murder. If such evidence turns up, I'm sure he'll elevate the charges. But right now, he can't charge him for a crime just because the two men worked at the same place hoping that evidence will later turn up to support the charge.
Jersey Devil
(9,874 posts)As for them knowing each other, I think it is rather unlikely that they both worked security at a bar for several years and didn't at least know each other by site.
I never said the charges should be 1st degree, only that there may be evidence we are unaware of that could make that happen
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Intent can arise in the heat of the moment but premeditation occurs in advance.
And there can always be evidence we're not aware of. It's possible that Chauvin was one of a squad of hit man hired by Bill Barr to kill black men across the country, but unless there's evidence to support it, the prosecutors can't charge it just because it's possible.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,500 posts)mobeau69
(11,143 posts)totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)case like this a lot of lawyers will want to defend him if they can. And we know from past experience how hard it is to get a conviction against a cop. There have been so many cases that looked like a slam dunk that went the other way.