"Dear White People: Stop using Dr. King as an example of peaceful protest ..."

[StarfishSaver]

"You shot him, too..."

[ScratchCat]

1. "We" did?

Good lord

[StarfishSaver]

3. Good Lord, indeed

[kentuck]

164. And stop using Lincoln, JFK, RFK, and Gandhi as examples also?

Because they were shot too?

The meaning is well, I am sure.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

166. White supremacy did not kill them the way it killed MLK.

[kentuck]

168. That is a good point.

So should we stop using the MLK Jr quote about standing on the mountaintop?

MLK JR is an example for what he lived for, not for what he died for.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

172. "So should we stop using the MLK Jr quote about standing on the mountaintop?"

Why?

[JonLP24]

176. It is common for people to use 1 or 2 quotes from MLK

Like "content of character" or mention he was for peaceful protests. They did this after Freddie Gray protests. They never mention his quote about riots. "A riot is the language of the unheard."

I thought who his target of his sign couldn't be more clear but perhaps he touched a nerve because I have actually seen these tropes at DU.

------
From a John Oliver episode

This is what the 2016 election has come to – that voters would either support “Kevin Kline’s character from the movie Dave" or "the ghost of Martin Luther King, Jr., assuming he only said the three quotes that white people like" than their party's candidate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/92270710

[StarfishSaver]

178. Actually, I wish a lot of white people WOULD stop quoting Dr. King altogether

Since a whole lot of white folk quote him very selectively to try to justify their own views - views that run completely counter to what Dr. King actually said and stood for.

And they seem to think that "I've been to the mountaintop," "I Have a Dream," and "We should be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character" are the only things Dr. King ever said.

I'd be very glad for those folks to just keep Dr. King's name out of their mouths.

[kentuck]

179. Don't try to tell other people what to say or what to think.

It won't work.

[StarfishSaver]

183. Did you actually read what you wrote before you hit "Post"?

Perhaps instead of instructing us on what to say and not say because "it won't work," why don't YOU come up with some solutions that you think will work. And then do it.

And I don't mean telling black people what we should be saying and doing and scolding us for not doing or saying it right.

[fescuerescue]

190. Dr King was effective because he influenced everyone

If he didn't influence white people, he would have been just another man and you probably wouldn't even know his name.

[JonLP24]

192. I'm influenced by the sign

White People, Stop Quoting MLK To Police How Black People Protest

(Snip)

In the wake of protests following Floyd’s death, the misuse of MLK’s words has reached a fever pitch.

The White House is still using them. President Donald Trump’s press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, on Monday played a video of “police protecting protesters and protesters embracing police” before ending the press briefing with a King quote. (It’s “beautiful to watch,” she said of the clip).

Link to tweet

On Instagram and Facebook, a meme frequently shared by those seeking to depreciate the current protests juxtaposes a photo of King walking arm-in-arm with other civil rights leaders during the 1965 Selma-to-Montgomery marches in Alabama with a photo of someone smashing a car window.

“This is a protest,” the overlaid text declares, “This is a riot.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ed554bac5b6d58c403814dc/amp

The sign couldn't have been more clear to me. Someone said there are white people at the protests. Yes they are at protests rather than a message board making a big deal out of a sign.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

196. More than two-thirds of America *as a whole* disapproved of King in 1967.

He was a brilliant organizer who was able to reach key people. He influenced key people who could bring their influence and privilege to bear as well. But the majority of people didn't like what he had to say, no matter what he was saying.

[StarfishSaver]

199. White America only fell in love with Dr. King after he died and was no longer a threat to them

And even then, they had to first turn him into a mythical, milquetoast hero that made white people feel good about themselves and whom they could use as a weapon to silence black voices and messages they find annoying.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

200. He was right about the white moderates, for sure.

[StarfishSaver]

201. "I am an ally! Tell me what to do"

"Well, one thing you can do is ..."

"How dare you say that! You're going to drive me away!"

"I'm not trying to drive you away. I'm trying to tell you the truth."

"That's divisive. We can only solve this together."

"I know. And we need you to ..."

"You need to stop treating us as if we're the enemy! If you don't stop, we won't help you anymore!"

"Anymore? You're not helping NOW."

"See! There you go again. Here I am fighting for YOUR rights and you haven't even THANKED me and now you INSULT me? I'm about to walk away"

"Instead of walking away, maybe you could talk to some other white people and help them understand."

"That's offensive. Not all white people are racists, you know. But you saying that means YOU'RE racist. Great way to influence us to help you."

"You're not being very helpful."

"Well, then, you tell ME. What's the SOLUTION?!"

And they wonder why we hold up "Dear White People" signs ...

[StarfishSaver]

167. If they're being used to lecture oppressed people how they should respond to their oppression, yes

[kentuck]

170. Some people are in no position to lecture others.

That is true.

[mcar]

2. Right?

[Solly Mack]

4. K&R

[FakeNoose]

5. If this analogy holds

... then we can't be quoting the words of Jesus either. Or Abraham Lincoln, for that matter.

Nah ... I think it's perfectly ok for white people to quote Dr. King. There are plenty of white people in this country to truly believe - and live by - the words that "Black Lives Matter."

Peaceful protest must be shown as the way for democracy to succeed. It's the teachings of Dr. King that woke us up and gave us those ideas.

[StarfishSaver]

6. I think you're completely missing the point

[Hortensis]

8. I think that kid is missing several critical ones and

is too busy indulging what should never be indulged, especially at this time, that he doesn't care.

Be interesting to know if his mom and dad are more interested in expressing racism, and likely resentful insistence on "owning" Dr. King for black people only, than in creating a better nation for their son and his children.

But, hey, divide on. When you're an empowered 13.5% of the population, who needs friends and allies?

[StarfishSaver]

11. Of course you think that

[Hortensis]

19. "White people?" ALL white people?

What happened to George Floyd does not make me somehow "owe" this kid free indulgence of his racism against all whites. What race might this kid be going out of his way to target for rejection if he were white?

[tonedevil]

118. Won't somebody think of the white people? They are the true victims. /nt

[ismnotwasm]

138. Holy shit.

What the fuck is this shit right here? “Reverse racism” because one black child has a message you approve of and one black child doesn’t, and, apparently doesn’t “get it”?

[StarfishSaver]

146. It never ends, does it?

[hangaleft]

155. You tell 'im

Only you speak the truth.

I’m growing weary at being labeled a racist by association.

[JonLP24]

156. I don't feel offended

It is a common trope to use MLK like the WH Press Secretary did yesterday.

I can't count how many times I have saw MLK references because there was a protest someone disapproved of.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

14. Why don't you spell out exactly what you're talking about with "indulging"?

likely resentful insistence on "owning" Dr. King for black people only,

I strongly encourage you to reconsider your word choices here.

When you're an empowered 13.5% of the population, who needs friends and allies?

Anyone who says this wasn't a friend or ally in the first place. Christ.

[Hortensis]

32. Dislike of the assimilation of Dr. King by whites into common culture

and our heritage of national heroes, creating an unreal popular image "white"-washed of much of the realities of his struggles and his attitudes that AA are proud of, is certainly not denied by those AA who've spoken out in objection. And of course it's very understandable.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

33. I want to be clear -- you are saying this kid is "indulging" in "dislike" or "resentment" of MLK

being sanitized for a larger audience, and he shouldn't be resentful, so you're mad at his sign?

[StarfishSaver]

40. Go back and read what you just wrote and then think about it the attitude it betrays

[R B Garr]

59. Such irony

[Hortensis]

120. :) We are agreeing that SOME THINGS SHOULD NOT BE SAID,

even if we disagree rather strongly on what those are.

I'm more with you now than before, if for different reasons. I now feel the movement would have been best served by letting this OP drop off the screen without comment.

[Tipperary]

148. This.

+1000

[Fix The Stupid]

10. What's the point?

ALL white people, even those born 20 years ago bear the burden for a whacko assassinating King?

Good luck with that thinking...

Will be 4 more years of the idiot.

The race-baiting has to stop - all sides.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. All white people bear the burden of recognizing how they benefit from white supremacy -- and if that

bothers them, the responsibility to dismantle white supremacy. To acknowledge that is not race-baiting.

[Fix The Stupid]

24. No...I do not bear any burden for being white..that's nonsense.

And racist as all hell to boot.

Imagine...lumping people into a certain race/ ethnic group and assigning them characteristics based on pre-conceived notions...

Sound familiar?

It's a shame we cannot harness the energy from the hypocrisy on this board...we could power the world for free...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

30. But I didn't say you bear a burden for being white. I said you bear the burden of white supremacy,

if you're white. If you're white, you benefit from the systems of white supremacy. That's not racism. It's how our country is built.

[Hortensis]

36. No, all white people benefit from oppression of other races --

theoretically at least. Some unfortunates get piss-nothing for their "advantage" and get spit on for it anyway.

But I did. Every time I ever applied for a job I had a racial advantage that cost those who didn't have it. Long ago I realized I was eligible for jobs that minorities were not because they were funneled to others of lower pay and status.

I am objecting to the claim that I contributed to the ugliness that resulted in King's assassination simply by existing, a lifetime of good will and support for equality not only of no worth but my existence itself effectively hate-ful and murderous. That is not true.

And, btw, this kid inherited and benefits big time from the institutional male advantage of men's oppression of women. Black men were acknowledged the right to vote a full 50 years before women; during that period women of all races lived their entire lives and died without it. And of course as men they were able to take jobs women were denied. And a full 100 years later this kid inherits what we haven't yet been able to do away with of institutionalized gender heritage.

But we will. And, to the point, I've never been on a corner mongering bigotry against men. I know we're all born into this world as it is, and it's what we do with it that defines our worth and our guilt, not gender or race we can do nothing about.

[Mosby]

92. I understand the sentiment expressed in the sign

But you make a really good point about the underlying gender bias.

[Hortensis]

96. I understand it also, and the kid has my support also as he sets out

in life, but not my agreement. I hope as he matures he'll grow intellectually and spiritually to better understand and embrace what this child already does:



Copied with thanks from Heartstrings' post.

[StarfishSaver]

99. Yes, of course. Why can't that black boy be more like this black girl

Do you actually read what you write before you post it?

[R B Garr]

103. Is your irony intentional?

It’s quite striking.

[tonedevil]

116. Wow...

you really can't help yourself can you?

[R B Garr]

121. Wow, such projection

[tonedevil]

123. Such fragility. /nt

[R B Garr]

125. More projection

[tonedevil]

126. LOL /nt

[R B Garr]

128. LMAO

[tonedevil]

130. ROTFLMAO /nt

[R B Garr]

133. ....have fun

[tonedevil]

135. How kind of you. /nt

[ismnotwasm]

129. Did you just "all sides" racism?

[Fix The Stupid]

141. yes... deal.

[ismnotwasm]

143. So. What sides are you talking about

The racists, or the the anti-racists. Or are you pretending there is an in between?

[StarfishSaver]

142. Yup

Notice how some people never have a word to say about racism until a black person says "white people" and then they swoop in to try to "both sides" said black person into silence?

[ismnotwasm]

144. I notice

Generally, they wait until a body is properly buried and the news has died down. This time they didn’t miss a moment

[kcr]

149. There are also plenty of white people

who use Dr. King as a symbol to deflect their own racism.

[beachbumbob]

7. I am sorry but "we did not", some racist asshole did and likely for money

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. YEP. K&R. Also lol at "NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE SHOT MLK."

[StarfishSaver]

13. Sure as day follows night, right?

Right along with the "I don't like what this black person said, so I just might stop supporting the cause" threats

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. Some people just never learn that they don't have to say every thought that comes into their heads.

[backscatter712]

108. Or the old "I saw a store get looted..."

"... four miles away from the protests and teargas - it must be the protesters' fault, so I won't support them."

If your support for basic civil rights is conditional on protesters protesting "the right way", you don't really support civil rights.

[AleksS]

16. I know, right!

I cannot believe people can miss the point that hard unless they’re actually trying to.


It just kills some people to not be the victim. They search and parse and stretch and misinterpret until they’re spinning harder than a trump press secretary just so anything/everything can be about them. Geez.

[pwb]

15. Lots of White people out protesting.

Should they stop? This is a divisive post IMO.

[StarfishSaver]

17. How is it "divisive"?

Does anything in my OP make you want to separate yourself from the cause of racial justice? If so, please explain why.

[pwb]

20. Dear white people?

How about Dear American people? All other races have a say in America too. Not just White People.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. White people have the power, though, because we live in a white supremacy.

[StarfishSaver]

26. Please answer my question

What specifically in my OP makes you want to separate yourself from the cause of racial justice and why?

[ScratchCat]

28. Its a false narrative

And false narratives are why the bulk of Americans don't get behind this kind of movement. When otherwise reasonable "white people" see this kind of nonsense blaming themselves for a 50 year old murder, they end up saying "nevermind, let them pretend to be victims" and assume that all calls for justice are also false narratives.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

31. "And false narratives are why the bulk of Americans don't get behind this kind of movement."

What kind of movement?

[ScratchCat]

65. Pretend Victimhood movements

Those kinds

[WhiskeyGrinder]

72. Are you saying people who protest systemic racism are pretending to be victims?

[ScratchCat]

106. The sign purports

that there is essentially nothing black people can do as far as having their voice heard - whether its peaceful demonstrations or rioting/looting - because "white people" - all of us - are just going to kill them anyway.

It purports that "white people" are just "pretending" to differentiate between violence(riots/looting) and non-violence(demonstrations) when they invoke MLK, just to cover up the fact that they naturally want to kill black people.

It purports that "white people" are being disingenuous when they see riots and comment "there is nothing wrong with peaceful protesting, but this is wrong". Because that observation automatically frames a discussion where some black people must be seen as "wrong", we see things such as this sign raise a false narrative where white people are still "more wrong" than looters.

Its ridiculous on every level.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

110. Are you looking at a different photo?

The sign in the OP says

Dear white people: Stop using Dr. King as an example of a peaceful protest...you shot him too.

If his sign had said: "Stop using Dr. King as an example of a peaceful protest...white supremacy shot him too," would you object to it?

[StarfishSaver]

112. Maybe YOU should offer to make the signs that black folk can carry when we're protesting

[StarfishSaver]

38. That doesn't answer my question

But if "otherwise reasonable people" walk away from fighting for racial justice because they're offended by a sign they saw a black child they don't know holding in a photo, they aren't "reasonable," they aren't allies and they aren't really in the fight in the first place.

True allies get it and most of them aren't the least bit offended. And a true ally would never threaten to abandon the cause even if they were offended by something someone in the cause said or did.

There's a false narrative at play here - and that false narrative is framed by the "that's divisive" excuse too many people use to try to make sure they can demand the movement comport to their comfort level.

[R B Garr]

69. Who are these fabricated people "walking away

from fighting for racial justice”?

Who is demanding the movement comport to their comfort level?

Did you listen to Obama yesterday?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

73. Do you mean like besides the ones threatening to do so on this thread?

[R B Garr]

77. This is really just fabricated drama at this point.

There’s another word for it, actually.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

80. What is fabricated drama?

[R B Garr]

85. Post 69 describes the fabrications.

Did you listen to Obama yesterday?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

89. Do you generally not believe people with less power than you when they say your actions are hurting

them? Do you always dismiss your own discomfort with a situation by describing it as drama?

[R B Garr]

95. This OP is the subject, though, which I've already addressed.

[R B Garr]

161. LOL

“My address” makes me a white supremacist. It just gets more ludicrous as it goes on! Thank you for this — pure comedy.

Oh, and don’t forget I’m a racist because I was an early Biden supporter instead of Harris.

[JI7]

162. There is nothing reasonable about people who say/think what you just described

[StarfishSaver]

171. People don't refuse to "get behind this kind of movement" because of "false narratives" by strangers

on an anonymous online message board or signs held up by black youngsters at a protest somewhere in America.

They don't get behind this kind of movement because they're not behind the goals of the movement they claim to support.

No ally ever says, "Never mind - let 'them' pretend to be victims." Not a single one. Anyone who does say such a stupid thing and walk away from a movement for civil rights and social justice doesn't give a shish about the cause.

[betsuni]

180. +1

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. They should stop if this sign hurts their feelers, because they're not ready for the fight.

[AleksS]

21. But then how will it be all about them!!!???

But if they stop, instead of working so hard to misconstrue this sign, then how will the world know that this is ACTUALLY all about them?

The world needs to know who the REAL victims are here, and it’s obviously white people. Somehow?

(That’s sarcasm, in case it wasn’t clear.)

[StarfishSaver]

25. And how else can they be "cafeteria allies" - fighting for the cause only when it's convenient and

comfortable for them and stepping away whenever they don't think it's fun anymore but blaming it on us because we were "divisive"?

[Fix The Stupid]

34. Oh yes, chastising allies on an internet board is quite the "fight"...

Jesus...like anything posted here has any impact whatsoever on the real world...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

35. No, I was saying if people need to tell StarfishSaver about how this sign hurts their feelings,

then they sure as hell aren't ready to do the really hard work of dismantling white supremacy.

[Fix The Stupid]

37. Why?

Why can't people disagree with this sign and it's message?

Only non-whites are allowed to have an opinion now? This is where you want to go?

Again, good luck - I see another 4 years of the idiot with this reasoning...but hey, keep dividing your allies...worked so well in 2016.

[StarfishSaver]

39. Disagreeing with the sign and it's message is one thing

Whining about "only white people are allowed to have an opinion now" and claiming that an sign held by an anonymous child in a photo posted by an anonymous member somehow should have any effect on whether they themselves will continue to support the cause of racial justice is another.

If this sign and this post "divides" you from the cause, you aren't part of the solution anyway.

[Fix The Stupid]

42. See... we're "whining" now...lol...

Want me to post a pic of some white guy holding a " Trump 2020" sign and then when the post gets trashed by your team, I respond with this?


"Whining about "a white guy holding a trump sign" and claiming that an sign held by an anonymous man in a photo posted by an anonymous member somehow should have any effect...."

See the hypocrisy yet? No...I bet you don't.

[StarfishSaver]

43. Yes. You're whining

And the fact that you think a photo of a white guy holding a Trump sign is any way comparable to the photo in my OP pretty much says it all.

[AleksS]

48. I found something even more unsurprising

I noticed which team he says will “trash” the Maga picture (hint, it’s not “his” team...it’s “your” team) And I think there might have been an unintended reveal there.

So what team is he on, I wonder...

[Fix The Stupid]

51. yeah.."Your team"...

The ones that disrupt this board, gang attack, etc. Post divisive BS like this...yes, "your team". I gladly do not count myself on that team.

[R B Garr]

71. LOL

[WhiskeyGrinder]

46. Oh my god, "your team." Just stop, for chrissakes.

Take some time to determine whether you're actually interested in dismantling white supremacy or not. If you are, start here with some reading, podcasts, videos, and so on, and quit asking Black people to nurse your feelings:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PrAq4iBNb4nVIcTsLcNlW8zjaQXBLkWayL8EaPlh0bc

[AleksS]

50. Oh good! You noticed too!

I’m glad you caught that too.

I’m sure I know which team I want to be on, and it’s sure as heck NOT team: “Tgat boy in the picture is the real racist!!???111!! Hurr hurr hurr MAGA!!!!???!”

[WhiskeyGrinder]

41. .

Why can't people disagree with this sign and it's message?

People can certainly disagree with the sign and its message. But the reasons for the disagreement or what a person might take away from it is an indicator of the level of understanding they have of what's at stake, which is why I'm pushing back on people's reactions.

Only non-whites are allowed to have an opinion now? This is where you want to go?

Absolutely not what I said. I'm pushing back on what people are saying about this sign to show how deep the problem runs. It's true, white people did kill MLK. Nowhere does the sign say "all white people," and yet that's what folks in this thread are responding to. They can't wait to insist that they're outside the system, that it had nothing to do with them, that they're a GOOD white person and would NEVER have pulled the trigger.

I mean, okay? A white person pulled the trigger, some white people set in motion the setting for the assassination. And they did it to uphold the status quo of white supremacy in this nation, which all white people benefit from.

Again, good luck - I see another 4 years of the idiot with this reasoning...but hey, keep dividing your allies...worked so well in 2016.

Electoral politics are only part of the struggle, so this doesn't hurt my feelings at all.

[k2qb3]

27. Always amazes me how people become whatever it is they focus their hate on.

Like it's a law of nature or something.

[StarfishSaver]

45. Care to elaborate?

[fescuerescue]

191. exactly

It's amazing that many people can't see that too.

[ismnotwasm]

29. K&R

Also, this is an incredible book for any burgeoning anti-racist to look into

DiAngelo, who is white, emphasizes that the stances that make up white fragility are not merely irrational. (Or even comical, though some of her anecdotes—participants in a voluntary anti-racism workshop dissolving with umbrage at any talk of racism—simmer with perverse humor. “I have found that the only way to give feedback without triggering white fragility is not to give it at all,” she remarks wryly.) These splutterings “work,” DiAngelo explains, “to reinstate white equilibrium as they repel the challenge, return our racial comfort, and maintain our dominance within the racial hierarchy.” She finds that the social costs for a black person in awakening the sleeping dragon of white fragility often prove so high that many black people don’t risk pointing out discrimination when they see it. And the expectation of “white solidarity”—white people will forbear from correcting each other’s racial missteps, to preserve the peace—makes genuine allyship elusive. White fragility holds racism in place.

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/a-sociologist-examines-the-white-fragility-that-prevents-white-americans-from-confronting-racism

[AleksS]

44. Based on this thread, this article needs its own OP!

I think this OP created its own case study in white fragility!

It’s like being at a trump rally with all the “white people are the real victims here!” and “that kid is the racist one!”

Do you think that people recognize when they’re making word-for-word the same arguments you’d find on freerepublic?

[ismnotwasm]

56. No, I don't

I don’t understand the whole “not all white people” kind of thinking. I see it in friend groups, I see it here. I see it everywhere. The worst examples being calling something “ reverse racism” UGH.

Saturday I’m going with my union to protest racial disparities And how racism affects Healthcare. It is are horrific.

I’m white. I understand I’m part of a system I benefit greatly from, and if I choose, I don’t have to think about any kind of disparity. I choose to go and protest them though.

It’s a comfortable choice. My union texted me and asked if I wanted to be there. Of course I do. I wasn’t to represent my profession (nursing) and I want to participate in an anti-racist activity. I don’t get a cookie. I don’t get bonus points. I get to live my life trying to be a decent human being

AND I still can walk down the street and not get pulled over or profiled as a dangerous person.

[Fix The Stupid]

53. Exactly...

Warms my heart to see all the white, brown, red, black, purple, etc, people at these protests. It is a great sign that things are heading in the right direction...


Then you get this drivel...all meant to slow this progress and keep pitting people against each other...it is so obvious.

[R B Garr]

55. +1, Obama mentioned the unity yesterday.

[R B Garr]

54. ++++1000

I can recall the same insinuations just because I supported Obama’s VP.

[Solly Mack]

49. This belongs here.

Before getting to what I said yesterday, let me say this now:

Nothing about the young man's sign is racist. He is saying stop using the words of King in an attempt to tell people of color how to express their anger over 401 years of oppression in a white dominant culture, whose centuries of racism created the conditions we are still living in today.

If you're not doing that, why get angry over the sign? Instead, look to understand what is being said.

The sign also expresses that it doesn't matter if the protest is peaceful or not, people of color are still going to be attacked.

America is a racist country. Pointing out all the white people at the current protests won't change that fact.

White people created and instituted a country that discriminates against people of color. That's what is meant by structural racism. It's not a simple case of individual racism. It's that plus the long history of racism inside the government and its various agencies.

White supremacy permeated the founding of America and it hasn't gone away.

So yeah, Ray pulled the trigger but the entire history of racism in America was right there with him. From slavery to the black codes to redeemer states to Dred Scott to Jim Crow to the FBI going after King to discrimination in jobs, schooling, housing, health care to driving, walking, jogging, breathing while black. It is ALL about white supremacy that created a dominant culture of white privilege.

The young man isn't telling white people to not embrace King. He is saying to not use King to tell black people how to express their anger and pain over yet another black person killed by the police. Because angry or peaceful protests, they are still attacked.

If his sign makes you uncomfortable then maybe it should.




The below was my response on another thread about McEnany and what she said at a press briefing.

Some people slay me. They only know about one speech
by MLK, Jr and they act as if that shows how enlightened they are and how they couldn't possibly be racist if they know about his "I have a dream" speech.

Even then they only pull certain excerpts from that one particular speech, and not because they admired King or even understood all he was talking about. No, they do it because most of the speech lays bare some ugly truths about America that still apply today.

- "It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of the Negro’s legitimate discontent (Yes) will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality.

...

And those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. [enthusiastic applause] There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges." -

A lot of white people attempting to beat people of color over the head with King's words of peaceful protest primarily do so in an attempt to silence people of color. Be angry, they're saying. But do it nicely. Show it in a way that doesn't offend us. Voice your anger and pain in a white people approved way.

Trump attacked peaceful protesters and he wasn't the only one judging from all the footage of police attacking other peaceful protesters.

A black man was mocked, scorned, and threatened with death for kneeling in a peaceful protest.

Peaceful protests get attacked.

Angry protests get attacked.

It doesn't matter how people of color protest - they will be attacked.

It's not the protesting these white folks are objecting to - it's the people doing the protesting that offends them. It's the color of the skin that makes all the difference.

Armed white people can storm capitol buildings and cops don't blink an eye - and Trump calls them good people. Responsible people.

Nazis and assorted other white supremacists can attack people, even commit murder, and Trump claims they are very fine people and then blames the victims.

McEnany thinks she scored a point. The only thing she did was show how pointedly dismissive this administration is of people of color.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

52. "If his sign makes you uncomfortable then maybe it should." Yes.

And if anything is going to change, white people are going to have to get used to being uncomfortable. It's not comfortable to dismantle a system designed to benefit you -- but it's certainly easier than being oppressed to death by that system.

[AleksS]

57. 10000x this yes!

If you feel attacked: ask yourself why?

[StarfishSaver]

62. +1000

[Solly Mack]

84. I was taught to think about why something made me

uncomfortable and to learn from it.

To examine my own thinking. To check myself.

Rooting out bigoted thinking takes conscious awareness. It is a deliberate process. It is something people must actively choose to do each day. And you must listen.

[Evergreen Emerald]

150. But, you are doing the same thing you oppose.

You are dehumanizing all whites. Us versus them. It will not work.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

151. Identifying white supremacy does not dehumanize white people.

If his sign had said: "Stop using Dr. King as an example of a peaceful protest...white supremacy shot him too," would you object to it?

[Evergreen Emerald]

153. No.

I differentiate societal construct with individual citizens. I understand intellectually that white privilege provides me an easier path than my brothers and sisters of color. And, I fight for equal rights. I shout and protest against racism. My actions support the MLK ideals. I did not kill MLK any more than you did. We both grew up in this culture that is perfect for only a few. Women have difficulty with sexual assault, domestic violence, work place discrimination, income inequality. My path is not perfect. The path of a female is not perfect. The path of a female of color is even worse. I do not blame you for this culture. And you should not blame me.

We need to work together to make changes rather than dehumanize me as the other evil doer who killed MLK.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

154. So if you know the sign doesn't apply to you, why do you object to it?

Are you interested in dismantling the system of white supremacy you benefit from?

We need to work together to make changes rather than dehumanize me as the other evil doer who killed MLK.

Don't be extra. This sign is not dehumanizing. It is an uncomfortable truth that white people shot MLK in an effort to uphold the status quo that white people benefit from to this day. It will be uncomfortable to dismantle that system, but white people must lead on that effort and not waste time insisting on "making changes together" as if this is an equal effort. Get comfortable with being uncomfortable, as Luvvie Ajayi says, or make peace with white supremacy.

[Blasphemer]

58. Amen! Anyone really in the fight needs to embrace being uncomfortable... nt

[Solly Mack]

75. Yes. Change brings discomfort. Embrace it. Learn from

it.

[StarfishSaver]

61. Thank you so much for this

I'm so glad you took the time to write such an eloquent and thoughtful post. I just don't have the energy to constantly explain this again, so I really appreciate you doing it so beautifully.

[Solly Mack]

74. You're welcome. The unity now is great. But...

And there always is a but because there always has been a but.

So, but...

Protests end. People drop hands. They go home to go about their daily lives.

In those daily lives is where the truth lives. Will people be more aware of how structural racism lead to the death of George Floyd?

Will they see racism in action in their daily lives and speak out?

Will they carry that sense of shared humanity with them and work, actively work, to change America?

The but is there and has always been there because once the kumbaya moment is over it all too often meant the trying stopped.

What comes after is the real test. That's the actual reality.

[cry baby]

64. Yes. nt

[Solly Mack]

90. Thank you.

[MerryBlooms]

67. rec. Excellent post, TY.

[Solly Mack]

76. Thank you

[ibegurpard]

136. Thank you

Can't believe some of the replies here... particularly from some very long-time DU members.

[Solly Mack]

137. You're welcome.

I know change can take time but incremental sounds like never when people have to constantly repeat what should already be obvious.

[theaocp]

139. Thanks for your post.

It expressed my thoughts much better than I could. Cheers and lollipops.

[Solly Mack]

140. I do like lollipops.

You're welcome.

[JonLP24]

158. Exactly

McEnany is an example of who this sign is for.

[cry baby]

60. As a white woman, it breaks my heart that the black community

has mostly been alone in their fight for equality. Not only have they been largely alone in their fight, they’ve been fighting people that look like me for generations. This picture is a sad reminder of that.

I hope that in the future, this young man can see that there will be people that look like me helping and supporting him in his effort to be equal in the eyes of all.

I’d like to tell this young man that I’ll try harder to listen and understand so that I can be of better help in his effort.

[StarfishSaver]

63. THANK YOU

[cry baby]

68. I'm going to do better, learn more.

I’d like to hug this young man and tell him that I hear what he’s saying. He looks so alone and disappointed.

[Solly Mack]

78. All we can do us try. But it's important that we do try.

[StarfishSaver]

66. LOOK AT THIS BOY'S FACE, DAMMIT!

Not one person who jumped all up into this thread to complain about the sign has expressed any empathy for the child holding it.

LOOK AT HIS FACE. This child is not your enemy. And he is not yours to lecture or second-guess.

He is obviously in pain. But not one of you who are whining bout his sign have shown even the least bit interest in understanding that pain.

Instead you are lecturing him, me and others about how offended you are about his damned sign and threatening to abandon him because he's not expressing his pain in a way that doesn't cause YOU any discomfort without any regard to WHY he is saying this.

And you supposed to be our allies?

Lord help us all.

[R B Garr]

79. LOL

I suggest you listen to what Obama said yesterday.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

81. What the fuck is this shit right here.

[R B Garr]

82. Nice try.

edit-I suggest you listen to what Obama said yesterday.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

86. I've read the transcript and I didn't see anything about him recommending people laugh at Black

pain so I'm not sure why you're invoking him.

[R B Garr]

87. He didn't fabricate anything either.

It was a great speech about unity.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

91. What actions are you going to take as a result of his speech?

[R B Garr]

94. More assumptions. This helps to show the

false narratives put forth in this OP. I’ll stick with Obama’s perspectives......

Have a nice day.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

97. No assumptions here at all. You just kept talking about Obama's speech and how it's the approach

that fosters unity, which is more effective, and I'm just curious what that looks like for you, starting with you.

[R B Garr]

98. Yet more assumptions.

No surprise

[WhiskeyGrinder]

100. What did you like about his talk?

[R B Garr]

102. It was the opposite of what this OP is implying.

He said there is much more diversity in the protestors than the ‘60s. The opposite of what the OP narrative is implying. My comments are not about the picture, but the false narratives/manipulations that accompany the picture. I’ve said this several times now.

Obama said much more, of course. Did you listen? Why do you disagree with Obama...?

Anyway, I have errands out the door.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

105. Okay, so you're happy to hear that the protestors are diverse. That works. Here's how I see it.

I think it's possible to see the photo in the OP as reminding protestors that they may be in the streets, but they also need to be the ones leading the work on dismantling white racism in their places of work, their houses of worship, their homes and families, and the public policies that affect all of us because. It's not enough to say the words of MLK. By not doing the work to dismantle the system he worked against, we dishonor his legacy and support the status quo through our inaction.

Obama said much more, of course. Did you listen?

No, but I read the transcript.

Why do you disagree with Obama...?

About what?

Anyway, I have errands out the door.

Wear a mask!

[R B Garr]

109. And all these points are just assumptions

that others are not doing any of that. Obama said the opposite. I’ll stick with Obama. So this thread is just manipulation, I.e., the drama I was mentioning. There’s another name for it, though.

Another assumption about the mask—I always wear one and hope you do too.

And it’s very condescending to say that I’m very happy that the protestors are diverse —that’s where the fabrications start, implying that I’m not happy with that...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

115. I ask questions so I don't make assumptions.

Another assumption about the mask—I always wear one and hope you do too.

I do indeed!

And it’s very condescending to say that I’m very happy that the protestors are diverse —that’s where the fabrications start, implying that I’m not happy with that...

When I asked what you liked about the speech, and you said he talked about unity, "you're happy with" was another way to say that.

And all these points are just assumptions

It's certainly hard to have a conversation when you answer questions with "more assumptions..." but I, The Fool, keep trying.

[R B Garr]

152. We're not clueless racists here, so no need for the

condescending lessons. Unfortunately, I can’t respond about my opinion of this OP author because it had to do with the primaries and what was implied about racism during that time.

Actually, this thread was a waste of time, so I apologize for bothering with it.

[cry baby]

88. Sometimes when someone is shown an image or idea that is

deeper than it seems at first, it takes some time for the deeper message to be realized.

A first impression and expression of that impression is shallow thought on a discussion board. Give us some time for the message to sink in...it will.

This photo is a powerful teaching tool.

[StarfishSaver]

104. Expecting to be "given time for the message to sink in" drips in privilege, don't you think

We're always expected to tiptoe around, gently prod, be sure not to offend and then wait patiently while people who should already be very familiar with conditions and feelings they've exposed to their entire lives decide they're emotionally capable of considering them.

It's really time for EVERYONE claiming to be an ally to start acting like allies and stop tone policing, lecturing and threatening to walk away at the slightest whiff that this might not really all about them.

[cry baby]

107. Absolutely. Privilege doesn't disappear instantly. Most don't even realize it

in themselves.

Your true words will sink in. Don’t tiptoe. You and a few others on this thread will get through. I didn’t understand my own privilege at first either. It took some humiliating introspection helped along by reading and discussing it with people like you.

Don’t stop telling your truth as you see fit so others can see better. I’m just saying that your words might take repetition and time.

[R B Garr]

114. Who are these fabricated people "threatening"

to walk away?? The opposite is playing out all across this nation. Then there’s this thread...

[StarfishSaver]

117. Reading is fundamental - and fun

You might want to take it up.

[R B Garr]

119. Such irony

[StarfishSaver]

122. Irony must have been your vocabulary word of the day.

You have now used it in a sentence three times today, so you get a gold star.

Good job!

[R B Garr]

124. Same can he said about your fabrications

of all the people “walking away” when literally the entire nation is doing the opposite of your inflammatory OP.

I also remember when you corrected my grammar instead of answering my question. Good job!

[StarfishSaver]

131. And "fabrication" must be your bonus word

But you lose points for not understanding what "literally" means.

[R B Garr]

134. LOL, back to your grammar tut tuts instead of answering

why you haven’t seen the days and days of protesting in the streets over the tragic killing of George Floyd. The opposite is happening from your fabrications about people “walking away”.

You should see Obama’s speech yesterday. It was excellent. Not anything like you are fabricating here about white people’s comfort levels.

[milestogo]

70. The FBI was probably behind his shooting.

But yes, they were white.

[Sogo]

83. Powerful.

Sharing....

[DIVINEprividence]

93. I think MLK would disagree with this

Non violent resistance was one of the cornerstones of his movement and led to the Civil Rights act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965. MLK would not have advocated abandoning this just because he got shot. That is ridiculous. Gandhi had the same approach and he took down the British Empire and liberated India and guess what? He got assassinated too. What, you think Gandhi would say, look I got shot, f it, everyone beat each other up now. By the way, I am not white.

https://rcnv.org/resources/principles-nonviolence-martin-luther-king-jr/

[StarfishSaver]

101. Ummm

Oh, never mind.

[R B Garr]

111. Umm indeed

[tonedevil]

113. There are a lot of...

Wypipo answering on this thread and you have given them a huge sad. I know I am a bad person because I want to use a baseball bat to beat sense into every person on this thread who has needed to say some variation of "not all white people".

[ismnotwasm]

127. This thread

#whitefragility

And I despair.

[tonedevil]

132. I see the same thing. /nt

[PunkinPi]

177. 100% nt

[Bettie]

145. I'll admit it, a couple of years ago, I'd have said "NOT ME!"

I'd have been offended. I'd have said "not all white people".

Now? I get it. At least as much as a white woman can.

Also, as a mother, his face breaks my heart. I want to be able to tell him that it will get better, but the simple fact is that it probably won't, not for a long while.

I see people around me using Dr. King's words to try to silence or pacify black people.

We don't own those words, because we haven't lived the lives they speak to, just like we haven't lived the life this kid has.

Ugh... I don't seem to be able to express this very well, but I'm not offended.

[StarfishSaver]

147. Thank you for this

What a beautiful post. You did indeed express yourself very well.

You give me hope.

[Judi Lynn]

157. Of course your post is needed. It's kind this young man communicates at all.

People who dare get pompous and would prefer others forget his meaning and simply think about them, instead aren't capable of having points of view worth expressing.

Clearly they are profoundly ignorant not to realize they are wildly off base.

It's NOT about them, and people of conscience know that immediately.

Get over yourselves, Trumps. Think beyond yourselves. Jesus.

[StarfishSaver]

160. I find it really troubling that not one person who swarmed here to attack the message offered any

word of empathy for the young man in the photo. Just look at his face. This is a child in pain. He looks a lot like Trayvon Martin or Tamir Rice to me - a young black man on the cusp of adulthood who fears that he could be the next black man shot and killed by the police and whose fear is not unreasonable. Yet no one who jumped into this thread to attack him and his message has said one word of kindness care about him and why he feels the way he does.

It is absolutely sickening. And it's one reason I'm losing patience with many of those who call themselves allies. They're nothing of the kind, as they demonstrate the second they're expected to do anything that doesn't allow them to remain squarely in their safety zone - including just thinking of anyone other than themselves for even just a moment.

[betsuni]

163. K&R

[kentuck]

165. STOP THE HATE means...

Stop the hate. Period.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

169. Calling out white supremacy is not hatred.

[StarfishSaver]

173. White people killing black folk and black folk demanding that white people stop killing black folk

are apparently the same to some people.

Which tells you all you need to know ...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

175. Exactly.

[Fix The Stupid]

187. You reallly want to go down this road? Really?

Do you want to see the stats on crime by race? Race on Race crime stats?

Too bad the truth can't be posted here...

[StarfishSaver]

189. LOL

It didn't take long, did it?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

193. It's not a BIG SUPER SECRET that crime is intraracial.

Some people think it's a big gotcha, even though it's easy to understand because most crime is proximate. "Black on black" crime is often used as a deflection in discussions about racism.

[JonLP24]

194. It is also common for right wingers to bring up

I was surprised to see that comment even in this thread.

[StarfishSaver]

197. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised

I'm only surprised that it took this long.

[kentuck]

174. Everyone is not a white supremacist.

We should be more careful not to be so inclusive with our language, in my opinion.

The oppression is real. How do we end it?

[StarfishSaver]

181. "The oppression is real. How do we end it?"

If you truly believe "oppression is real," how do YOU suggest "we" end it?

It gets very exhausting to have white people ask US what to do about the oppression that we are not responsible for. It's not up to us to tell you what to do about it or to figure it out solutions all by ourselves. Especially since, whenever we suggest a solution that makes white people the least bit uncomfortable, they tell us, "No, that's not the solution. You're only driving us away ... Now tell us what to do!"

Instead of asking "how do we end it?" and waiting for us to come up with an answer you like, why don't YOU come up with some ideas that answer your own question?

[kentuck]

184. Whatever solutions we come up with, it must be together.

I know that much.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

185. Black people cannot dismantle white supremacy, nor can they make white people stop being racist.

White people have to do the heavy lifting on this one.

[PunkinPi]

186. Black people didn't create a white supremicist society in which we live, white people did and

it is incumbent on white people to dismantle it. I suggest you Google the term "anitracist," and go from there.

[StarfishSaver]

198. That's not a solution

Not even close.

Just as asking black people "what's the solution?" isn't a solution - or even particularly helpful.

[kentuck]

203. Argumentative.

You are not looking for a solution.

You are not even looking for a discussion.

[hlthe2b]

217. +++

[WhiskeyGrinder]

182. "Everyone is not a white supremacist."

I love how white people love to spell this out, as if "white supremacy" means only riding at night in a white hood to burn a cross on someone's lawn. This country was built on white supremacy and we are soaking in it.

Every white person benefits from white supremacy. When we're not working to dismantle oppressive or distribute benefits gained from to others, we're upholding it.

[fescuerescue]

188. Yea that will help bring us together

[WhiskeyGrinder]

195. What will help bring you into the fight against racism?

What are you looking for?

[Fix The Stupid]

202. Why do you assume he/we are not fighting?

Where do you get the idea that anyone who disagrees with you is not already fighting racism?

You don't know this person. You don't know me.

Why do you assume so much?

[StarfishSaver]

204. Maybe because we've seen absolutely no evidence that you're actually "fighting racism"

Maybe you're actually doing something in the real world, but the sum total of your "contribution" to the effort here has been to going from thread to thread complaining about how black people choose to fight oppression.

If the people who expend so much energy tone policing black people and our allies focused instead on actually fighting racism, they'd actually be of use to the cause instead of a drag on it.

[Fix The Stupid]

205. So you think that racism needs to be "fought here"?

On Democratic Underground?

You're serious?

You have no idea who we are. You're looking for "evidence that you're actually fighting racism" from posts on an Internet Chat board??? How can anyone fight racism posting on this site, of all sites? We're all on the same side.

You just fling shit at everybody. You are not helping.

Really, does anyone believe being a keyboard warrior is helping in this time???

Get outside, talk to people. Don't divide the good people here who are obviously on your side..the good side.

[R B Garr]

208. Thank you, and the shameful distortion of hiding behind a

picture to pitch those insults is really over the top. Literally the entire world is protesting what happened to George Floyd, so why pitch a false narrative on an internet message board.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

209. Racism must be fought everywhere. This country is built on a scaffold of white supremacy, and we've

all grown up in it.

We're all on the same side.

Then why do people get so mad about the sign in the OP?

Don't divide the good people here who are obviously on your side..the good side.

Black people (and POC) hear that one all the time. "Why are you so mean? We're helping!" It costs you absolutely nothing to listen to feedback from people who are directly hurt by the system you say you are dismantling.

[irisblue]

211. Wow

"You just fling shit at everybody. You are not helping."

Maybe some fresh air would help

[fescuerescue]

216. anonymous Keyboard warriors

Always overestimate their keyboard power. Most of them simply want to lash out at other anonymous people.

Additionally, a posting provides about 0.0000001% of insight into a human, their views and their efforts. That leaves 99.999999% to be imagined and projected from the mind of the poo-flingers.

[Fix The Stupid]

207. and, lol...you've been on this site for 10 minutes...

So spare your outrage for the long term members here..lol.

I got to go now...some socks need washing.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

206. What are you doing to dismantle white supremacy?

Why do you assume so much?

I am definitely an asshole online.

[StarfishSaver]

212. It's not this child's job to "bring us together"

He's trying to wake people up to the fact that his life is in danger. If his choice of words in his cry for help offends anyone so much that they won't help save his life and the lives of other black people, not only are they not allies, they are complicit in the problem, so why should anyone care if their feelings are hurt?

[fescuerescue]

215. clearly

[Lancero]

210. Signs like these never bothered me, because I know which group it's referring to.

Fun hint, but if this sign offends you... You're part of that group.

[Polybius]

213. I'm black and I am happy when white people quote him

We've come a long way. In the 60's a huge percentage of white people openly dismissed him.

[StarfishSaver]

214. It's often very nice and inspiring when white people quote him

But when they quote him AT black people - selectively and out of context - to tell us how we should and shouldn't protest, that deserves pushback.