Heard company called Next Door has a 'Karen problem' What is the company, what is its Karen problem?

[bobbieinok]

I am so out of it!

Heard AOC said this

[kcr]

1. Nextdoor itself IS the problem

https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/25/nextdoor-ceo-is-stepping-down/

[bobbieinok]

5. Thanks for info. But I'm bit confused as to exactly how it's being misused. Any other sources, maybe

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. You can check it out yourself. It's a neighborhood bulletin board.

If you go to Nextdoor.com you can search for your own neighborhood (if it's listed). If you sign up with Nextdoor for your neighborhood you can post information or comment on other people's posts on a variety of topics - lost pets, gardening, stop lights, car break-ins, any number of things. I've found it useful for getting rid of unwanted stuff and getting info from the city and the neighborhood association. Where it can sometimes devolve into hostility is when someone posts a topic or a comment that someone else objects to, and sometimes a flame war ensues and the whole topic falls apart. Sometimes it's a racist or sexist or otherwise offensive comment; sometimes it's just obnoxious and officious, like when someone doesn't like it that people park cars in front of their house. Nextdoor isn't moderated so people don't always behave themselves.

[dawg day]

32. i find Next Door useful, but--

I had some old laptops I wasn't using anymore, and wiped them and offered them to families with kids who have to be home now and schooling on computer (free-- I just wanted to declutter). 3 hours, three happy families.
I asked for recommendations for a kitchen remodel- got a referral to the best contractor ever.

There's some wonderful guy who says he has the goal of helping 40 households this year with minor maintenance jobs like replacing a toilet or fixing a broken window-- for free, just to help out. That's a Next Door thing.

But... good lord. There are a dozen or so people who seem to live to argue, which is okay-- I can argue right back, but they're MEAN. Some are racist -- we live in a moderate-income diverse neighborhood, but you'd think this was some wealthy white enclave now that a bus from downtown stops here on the way to minimum-wage jobs up at a big mall. "Those people" might stop in our neighborhood Starbucks! (MOST people aren't doing this, just this dozen or so.)

The school bond issue? "I don't have kids in the schools anymore, why should I pay for yours?" (Someone helpfully pointed out when that person's kids were in the schools, obviously someone else was paying taxes to educate them.)

No "Karens," but a lot of "I got mine!" people.

You know, in every crowd....

[woodsprite]

48. The Nextdoor for our neighborhood has moderators

It might be however the people want to run it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

49. Maybe mine does too, I've just never noticed them.

[backscatter712]

13. Karens who call the police on people for being black in public are also using NextDoor...

...to gin up racial profiling and harass minorities.

[kcr]

38. It's the link with police departments

https://www.seattlemag.com/article/nextdoorcom-becoming-home-racial-profiling

And just general shittiness:https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/09/01/nextdoor-when-a-neighborhood-website-turns-unneighborly/

[Celerity]

57. ffs, look at this comment, the RW are not only brainwashed and evil, but STUPID

roflmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

EMILY'S List is a bloody PAC, not a fucking social media site

[kcr]

65. Just think how bad must they have been to get kicked off Next Door.

The stupid is stunning.

[LakeArenal]

2. Karen is an insulting name for a white woman who thinks she can bitch people into doing something.

There is a stereo-typed image of a Karen based on a hair style which is actually a bob.

It’s very insulting to woman named Karen and many have requested that they not use that name on DU.

[efhmc]

97. Arguing that point right now as a person is calling the truck convoy people "Karens"?

So now all those white guys are Karens and getting their usual pass.

[LakeArenal]

98. Well almost two years ago there wasn't a Convoy.

It’s even more insulting if men have the name.

[LisaM]

3. "Karen" is an ageist, sexist meme.

As was pointed out by another DUer a few weeks ago, its origins actually lie in the reaction of a man in a divorce to having his wife "taking" his kids after a divorce and proceeding to trash her on Reddit. It's obviously morphed from there, to disparage haircuts and women asserting rights. In my opinion, it's below DUers to use it.

[DetlefK]

7. Would you like to speak to DU's manager about this?

Would you like to assert your rights and call the police on a lemonade-stand?
Would you like to assert your rights and call the police on people enjoying themselves?
Would you like to assert your rights and call the police on someone asking you to leash your dog?

[backscatter712]

16. LOL!

[Celerity]

67. +100000

[LisaM]

86. Har har.

That joke has been tried here. Wasn't funny then, isn't funny now.

[PTWB]

9. No, it isn't. People saying it is ageist / sexist are trying to deflect its true meaning.

The true meaning behind the Karen meme is ever shifting, as language does. A “Karen” is someone who abuses their white privilege and social status. This can be the angry customer upset about something petty who demands to speak to the manager, or the person who threatens to call the police on the black man in Central Park because she felt threatened by his blackness. This can be the anti-vax crowing, pseudoscience touting, woo-peddling, homeopathic believer who tries to sell you on an MLM “business opportunity.”

The original FuckYouKaren subreddit creator has this to say:

“A Karen divorces her husband and takes the kids, is a pseudoscientist/anti-vaxxer/flat-earther, an MLM participant, an avid user of Facebook to post shitty motivational posts/’Live Laugh Love,’ and more,“ karmacop97 explained to me. “Our Karen in the wild won’t satisfy all of [these attributes], but she can still be a true Karen.”

“She’s the mom in Kroger with her kids asking to speak to the manager,” one Karen, a 29-year-old law student from Oxford, Mississippi, told me in a phone interview. “You do see that basic stereotype sometimes, so it’s kind of funny. It’s a little bit of a commentary on white privilege, perhaps.”

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/5/21079162/karen-name-insult-meme-manager


Now, if you’re offended by that, maybe there is a deeper reason?

[SoonerPride]

10. Thank you. Your post was perfect.

The pearl clutching over poor oppressed white privilege being called out is frankly disgusting.

It isn’t ageist at all
Nor is it sexist

[kcr]

17. I'll give you credit for one thing

Including the sexist origins of "Karen" in your post explaining why "Karen" isn't sexist.

[PTWB]

46. Which of those origins do you feel exhibits sexism?

[kcr]

47. Seriousy?

This isn't sexist?

“A Karen divorces her husband and takes the kids, is a pseudoscientist/anti-vaxxer/flat-earther, an MLM participant, an avid user of Facebook to post shitty motivational posts/’Live Laugh Love,’ and more,“ karmacop97 explained to me. “Our Karen in the wild won’t satisfy all of [these attributes], but she can still be a true Karen.”

[PTWB]

50. No? How are those sexist?

That description is of a very specific type of privileged and obnoxious person. Those characteristics apply to very few people, much less some sort of sexist blanket descriptor for all women.

I don’t know why you’re offended by the Karen meme. I don’t know why anyone is.

“Karen” only applies to privileged people who seek to exploit their privilege for personal gain and to belittle others.

[kcr]

51. If you don't think that's sexist

Then nothing I can say to you will matter.

[PTWB]

59. I don't but I'm asking you to explain what is sexist about it

Or what you perceive as sexist. I feel it is important to keep my mind open to such perceptions even if they’re not how I perceive things.

[kcr]

61. The man is ranting about women and calling them child-stealers

Because he's bitter about his divorce and created a forum for like-minded people to join in the women-bashing. If you don't think that's sexist, then no one is going to be able to convince you otherwise.

[PTWB]

72. I feel like women bashing is absolutely sexist

But ranting about your ex, not so much. Also, I the guy ranting about his ex and the guy who created the forum to complain about “I demand to speak to your manager” white privileged Karens are two different people.

While unfortunate for people named Karen, there really SHOULD be a label for people to identify those who are exploiting their own white privileged for gain.

Central Park lady? That’s a Karen.

Do you think that’s sexist? Or what about the word Dick, is that sexist?

Let’s all relax a little bit on what offends us and focus more on people who are really shitty humans, like the Central Park lady.

[kcr]

73. I'm sorry, but ranting about your ex becomes sexist

If you create a forum bashing women in general.

[PTWB]

75. The fella ranting about his ex did not create the forum.

The forum was created by a 17 year old kid to call our people who were exploiting their white privileged.

[kcr]

76. So, he decided to do that

by using a man ranting about his ex and all other women as an example. Okay.

[PTWB]

77. All other women??

Who on earth thinks “Karen” is a blanket statement that means “woman”?

[kcr]

78. How many men do you know named Karen?

[PTWB]

79. How many women do you know named Dick?

[kcr]

82. lol

Look at all the "Dick" posts on DU calling out white racist men.

[PTWB]

89. Are you suggesting that people no longer call folks "Dick"?

While true that it may not be the insult of choice anymore, it is still frequently used. Not that I think the frequency of use really has anything to do with whether or not something could be considered sexist.


I don’t think it is sexist to call someone exploiting her privilege a “Karen.”

I don’t think it is sexist to call someone behaving in a stupid, mean or contemptible way a “Dick.”

Do you think one is sexist but not the other?

Webster’s:

Definition of dick (Entry 1 of 3)
1 usually vulgar
a : PENIS
b : a mean, stupid, or annoying man

Perhaps you’d be more comfortable if we called mwan, stupid or annoying women “Karen”? Perhaps it is calling out and labeling white privilege that you are really upset about? I don’t know.

[kcr]

91. No

I'm saying that just because men are called names doesn't mean sexism doesn't exist. So, go ahead. Point out all the "Dick" posts on DU.

[PTWB]

94. Of course sexism exists.

But I'm just failing to see how calling a woman who is behaving badly a ''Karen'' is that different from calling a man who is behaving badly a ''Dick.''


There are countless examples of people calling people 'dick' or 'dickhead' or 'dicks' on DU. Here are a few from a quick search but there were countless others. And shockingly from what I could tell glancing through.. all the people being called a Dick.. are definitely Dicks!!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1137&pid=54097
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2506255
https://www.democraticunderground.com/121887830
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029011417
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029182051
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210997201
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10028594324
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212625106
https://www.democraticunderground.com/123046600
https://www.democraticunderground.com/12512244830

[kcr]

95. The difference is in how it's used.

When a man is called a dick, it's because he's personally being called out for his specific bad behavior, and his gender doesn't enter into it. It's why there aren't a bunch of Dick posts about men not wearing masks.

[PTWB]

96. How is that different?

Is it not exactly the same thing - calling a karen out for her personal bad behavior? For example the karen in central park who called the police on the black man who asked her to leash her dog. She told the police he was threatening her life. She was being a total racist karen. That has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her personal bad behavior.

If it had been a man I'd say he was being a racist dick.

I think you're being overly sensitive to perceived sexism while ignoring the GOOD that the name karen does - it allows us to quickly label the actions of someone who is exploiting their privilege at the expense of someone else.

[LisaM]

87. Exactly.

It's really, really tiresome.

And, by the way, I've worked in customer service and most people who demand to see the manager are men.

[kcr]

90. My experience as well

It's just like the focus on women who don't wear masks, as if that's a woman trait. People who don't think the meme is being appropriated for sexism are in denial.

[malaise]

53. I still prefer Miss/Mrs/Ms Thing but that is a very interesting

explanation of its origin. Thanks.

[TheBlackAdder]

56. Becky, Karen, Susan & Gertrudes... Karen's are bad, but nothing tops my age group: Susans!

[Nature Man]

54. Get over it?

too bad?

[SWBTATTReg]

55. That term is used very heavily all through society, everywhere. Your request is for DUers to not...

use this very generic term is dead in the water, and nor is it 'beneath us'. It's an acceptable use according to society everywhere. It's gained popularity such as 'Jack and Jill', 'Jack and the Beanstalk', 'John', 'Johnny' ('when Johnny goes marching off to war') and the list goes on and on. Hundreds of names are used for various meanings and such. When people use this term, they are not meaning a specific 'Karen' or real person that we personally know that has the name of 'Karen'.

[kcr]

58. How is a woman's name generic?

The answer is it isn't. "Karen" is just a shorthand way for people to call women a bitch.

[SWBTATTReg]

60. I am not going to argue w/ you over a losing cause. Good luck on your quest to get millions of...

people to quit using this term. I don't think you are going to have much luck.

[kcr]

62. Everyone who's ever fought for justice and equality

Has been told there's no point. They're in the minority so they don't matter.

But I do thank you and a few others in this thread for being perfect examples of how "Karen" is problematic. I've seen plenty of people on DU say they won't use it anymore and discussions like this are the reason why.

[SWBTATTReg]

64. I never used the word 'Karen' in this particular DU topic, as you seem to think I did. But I ...

always accept the fact that when someone talks about a 'Karen', I know exactly what they mean, such as those on Choosy Beggars Reddit. I bet the definition is even in the dictionary. Go ahead and insult others while you're at it.

[kcr]

68. I never said you did

I have no idea what Choosey Beggars Reddit is. Sounds delightful.

[SWBTATTReg]

71. A website, full of videos and such, w/ all of our favorite characters in life...

that we all deal w/ in daily life.

www.reddit.com/ChoosyBeggars

[LisaM]

88. I am not the only person here to have trouble with this kneejerk use of "Karen".

But, unfortunately, I think you're right. People use cheap shots because they're easy.

[Celerity]

69. thank you for this sanity

[Celerity]

66. nope, it is 100% legit, and it's depressing how much white fragility is on display here at times

[kcr]

70. Please. The vast majority of people I see wooping it up over Karens

are other white people. Especially here at DU. Because I'm sure they're the exception, if they're a woman, or happy to be able to jump in on some women bashing if they're men. Either way, they're making no attempts at self-reflection.

[Celerity]

80. it's a meme, it has zero to do with anyone actually named Karen if they don't fit the meme

Karen Smith from Mean Girls from 2004 is a huge source of it


Omg Karen you can't just ask people why they're white.

Gwyneth Paltrow in Sliding Doors (1998) has the Ur-Karen hairstyle (Ur as in Ur-type)

[kcr]

81. Just because it's a meme doesn't mean it can't suffer lack of context

I will stand by what I said. The vast majority of white people who've appropriated this meme are doing nothing to reflect on themselves. I've never seen anyone refer to themselves as a "Karen", for example. They can keep patting themselves on the back that they aren't racist, not like that "Karen".

[Celerity]

83. done here, there are plenty of good posts on here that rebut every single attempt to try & dismiss

its legitimacy.


this is one





Bottom line, if someone doesn't want to get called a Karen, then don't do Karen things.

cheers

[kcr]

85. Oh, that's the one?

The one who equated its use to Jack and Jill? Okay.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Next Door isn't a company as such, it's an internet network for neighborhoods.

You can sign up to connect with neighbors and send and receive messages about lost pets, selling or giving away stuff, neighborhood crime alerts, etc. "Karen" has become an internet meme that's lately been used to refer in general to middle-aged white women exercising their privilege to call the police on innocent black people, or even just being officious assholes who threaten to call the manager or police the behavior of their neighbors. So-called "Karens" sometimes turn up on Nextdoor to complain about people who don't control their dogs or children or to alert neighbors to some black guy walking down the street. Most people named Karen understandably don't like being called a Karen.

[onetexan]

18. Much as i like using Nextdoor for neighborly referrals of services, businesses, etc. it has become a

haven for RW propaganda. It should not be a place where politics is discussed. The moderators don't do a good job at policing threads, many of which are uncivil and violence-inciting on topics where guns are mentioned. Although much of where we live is quite liberal, it is TX after all. There are guns stores everywhere and trigger happy gun nuts brandishing their ego and their ware.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. I haven't seen much of that in the Nextdoor posts

for my neighborhood and surrounding neighborhoods. In fact, it's been instrumental in organizing food drives and other help for neighborhoods affected by the unrest here (Minneapolis). There isn't much moderation but when people start getting dickish other posters call them out. There can be flame wars but they are less likely to be racist than just stupid.

[onetexan]

34. That may be the case where you are. I've used it in several major cities and same experience.

Alot of complaining, public shaming, rudeness, hysteria, racism... The company who owns Nextdoor need to implement better policies. I usually get on the site whenever i need a referral for a service, like a plumber or car repair tech, OR if there are safety-related PSA's from the city. OR if i need to sell or buy something. I've stopped reading through the nonsense the neighbors post.

[SharonClark]

33. In my neighborhood, posters who post political nonsense are shut down by other neighbors who

remind them it isn't a political site. I can imagine that isn't the case in all neighborhoods.

[onetexan]

35. I believe each neighborhood has a "Lead" who is supposed to do the policing. I've reported posts

before but the majority don't get removed. I can only deduce the leads are conservatives as well and agree with the political bias posted by RW crazies.

[leftyladyfrommo]

74. Our Nextdoor is pretty good for finding lost animals.

Or for people needing referrals for work they need done.

I would hate to be named Karen right now. Way back I had a terrible time with my name when a TV show character using my name was on. People's comments were funny the first 2,000 times but then it got really old.

[kcr]

21. NextDoor isn't a company?

What is your definition of a company?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. There is probably a company that owns it but it's not known as that.

I know perfectly well what a company is. Nextdoor is known as a message board for neighborhoods, which is what I understood the question to be.

[gay texan]

6. Well

If it's in the true sense of the "Karen" its infested with entitled racist white women who always want to speak to the manager, or simply call the police for black people living their lives.

[bobbieinok]

8. Thanks to everyone who commented. Will cease using 'Karen'

[LakeArenal]

14. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[spinbaby]

36. Those of us named Karen appreciate it.

Some of us are very nice. Really.

[The River]

11. I Keep Getting Invites

via snail mail. It could be useful; goods, services, security, etc.
What's the down side?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. I like it. I just ignore the threads where people get to arguing

about dumb stuff. I've been able to get rid of a lot of stuff I don't need by posting an ad there.

Also, Nextdoor has been instrumental in organizing food drives and other help for people here in Minneapolis who have been affected by the consequences of the murder of George Floyd. It can do some good things; not everybody is a "Karen."

[marlakay]

29. Same here I like it to

And you have to be invited by a neighbor or proof of where you live, so not just anyone can go into neighborhoods. I even tried to go into my moms to get help during covid and was unable to.

I bought some homemade masks few weeks ago from a neighbor, we found our plumber, electrician, and handyman from there.

I appreciate the posts of things happening like a break in. I live in a conservative town and it stays mostly nonpartisan but if it flares up I ignore those threads.

[Dream Girl]

19. It can be useful to get recommendations about services in your area

[LeftInTX]

24. You find out that your neighbors are paranoid and bigoted

Everyone walking in the neighborhood is seen as "suspicious", especially POC

I don't like it.
It's good if you want to buy or sell anything.
And it's also decent for found/lost pets


But people also use it to "police" the neighborhood, like the old neighborhood watch.

[The River]

42. My Neighborhood

is a gated community, mostly retired residents.
I'd only use ND for goods, services, events, mountain lion/bear sightings, etc.
I have no use for gossip and don't talk politics w/neighbors.
I just worry about privacy issues and how my data is used/sold/marketed.

[ibegurpard]

43. Exactly

When i was on Facebook i belonged to a neighborhood association group that the same people would use to post sightings of "suspicious people" over and over again.

[irisblue]

26. Go check this Twitter account

@BestofNextdoor

Here ya go

Link to tweet

Yes, it mocks NextDoor

[SharonClark]

22. NextDoor is a good way to share information with your neighbors.

In my neighborhood, it's mostly about recommendations for arborists, hard wood floor restorers, tilers, and veterinarians. It also includes public service announcements (curfews, state parks reopening, mosquitos spraying, road detours, power outages, etc), posts about free plants, lost dogs, elderly neighbors who need help with house repairs, car break-ins, stolen bikes, illegal burning, etc.

I never knew there were so many escape-artist dogs near me.

It's suppose to be non-political but sometimes a comment or two slips in and there is a brief back and forth but nothing threatening. I don't know what AOC's issue is with it.

In fact, I just posted an answer on NextDoor about Carpenter Bees in a thread titled "what to do if there is a bee swarm in your yard". The 20 people who participated (so far) asked good questions and were given good, sciene-based answers.

[LeftInTX]

28. You're lucky

Mine is full of people who post "suspicious person" in the neighborhood. There is also doxxing and posting of license plates.

I live in a low crime area.

[SharonClark]

37. They post license plates? That could lead to vigilantism.

We did have someone post the description of a truck where the driver was trying to solicite a 16 year old who was walking her dog. Another neightbor responded by saying he has a truck of that description so don't make assumptions and report him.

[LeftInTX]

39. I've reported it too

And crickets...they keep doing it

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. I see more of that than offensive flame wars.

Lately, because my feed includes the neighborhood where George Floyd was killed, there have been a fair number of posts reporting "suspicious behavior," mostly that of suspected right-wing agitators. It has also been used to collect food and raise money for those neighborhoods. Otherwise it's still mostly lost pets, gardening problems, stuff to give away or sell, stray dogs and garage break-ins.

[jmg257]

25. I got an email to sign up - waaay too intrusive for my taste.

I canceled immediately.

[flibbitygiblets]

40. NextDoor can be useful to know what's going on in your neighborhood

For example, if someone had a package stolen off their porch, or found someone rummaging in their garage/yard/car etc., it's helpful to post this information so neighbors can be on the lookout (especially when there are pictures). Because often the police won't come out for these types of things, depending on there one lives.

Lots of people use ND to report a lost/found pet, which seems to work much better than putting posters around the neighborhood.

Of course there are RWNJs and all stripes of jagoffs, who I simply "mute".

[ibegurpard]

41. Heard this song before in neighborhood Facebook groups

Which i have since dropped. People ( usually the same ones) reporting "suspicious" people lurking around.
No interest in that regardless of what benefits the service might provide. I'm so over it.

[Cousin Dupree]

44. I said something on Next Door that some people strongly disagreed with.

They were rude and hostile and just pounded me mercilessly. I ended up unjoining.

[LeftInTX]

45. Gladys Kravitz would have loved Nextdoor!

Link to tweet

/photo/1

[Alex4Martinez]

52. My Nextdoor is very entertaining, but often disappointing.

"Suspicious person parked in car by the CVS, might be Mexican."

Shit like that.

[Celerity]

84. Website Meant to Connect Neighbors Hears Complaints of Racial Profiling (2016)

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/us/website-nextdoor-hears-racial-profiling-complaints.html

OAKLAND, Calif. — One message on the web forum asked neighbors to be on the lookout for “two young African-Americans, slim, baggy pants, early 20s.” Another warned of a “light-skinned black female” walking her dog and talking on her cellphone.

“I don’t recognize her,” the post read. “Has anyone described any suspect of crime like her?”

These postings appeared on the Oakland forums of Nextdoor.com, a website intended to be a virtual neighborhood hangout for the tens of thousands of neighborhoods and hundreds of local police departments that use it to communicate with residents. The site’s chief executive and co-founder, Nirav Tolia, describes it as a place to find a babysitter, a plumber or a missing cat, and to have a “kind of ‘Leave It to Beaver’ chatter.”

But people also use it to report suspected crimes. And as Nextdoor has grown, users have complained that it has become a magnet for racial profiling, leading African-American and Latino residents to be seen as suspects in their own neighborhoods.

In response to the complaints, the company has begun testing ways to prevent these kinds of postings. The site plans to require users who wish to alert neighbors of suspicious activities or people to fill out a form with a description of clothing or some other identifying markers beyond race. In this way, the company says, it will prevent users from relying on race alone in their descriptions, reducing the likelihood that innocent neighbors will be targeted.

snip

[ibegurpard]

93. I don't even want to know the innocuous things

That my idiot fellow humans are musing about. There's a reason i quit social media.

[PlanetBev]

63. I bailed out of Next Door last year

No matter the subject we were discussing, some asshole Right-winger would use it to take a cheap shot at Democrats. I went off on the last offender, then decided that I’d had enough.

[Beringia]

92. Maybe DU should have a name stereotype day

Where we all choose a moniker for our own stereotype.