Biden saying that 10-15% of Americans are bad people is the kind of unforced error we don't need.

[Music Man]

I know, I know, I know: "But there ARE bad people in the U.S., and they need to be called out. This will help Biden."

These types of remarks are ALWAYS covered as being condescending, and they never, ever, ever, ever, ever help candidates, especially Democrats. I don't care how fired up it makes the people in our bubble. There were people on this board in 2016 trying to rationalize Clinton's "basket of deplorables" remark, but that hit my gut wrong the instant she said it. Trump and Company seized on that right away and used it to reinforce liberals as culturally elite, coastal, out of touch people. It never, ever works.

I could certainly see a candidate saying, "There may be bad people in our country, but I choose not to dwell on that. And I want to hope that everyone can change."

That would be on brand as the calm, steady, unifying voice. But Biden just HAD to volunteer that opinion and pull a percentage out of his ass. Why 10-15%? It sounds bullshitty.

This also comes the same week James Mattis says Trump is the first president to not even try to unite all Americans. Biden's remark makes that contrast more nebulous to voters, whether we like it or not.

Biden has been killing in the polls nationally and in all the swing states by letting Trump shoot himself in the foot. He is poised to beat Trump in a landslide if we turn out and if Biden doesn't do stupid things.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I don't see the problem. The estimate is probably low.

[we can do it]

4. I agree. Don't see a problem with it.

[Hortensis]

26. Yes. We need to speak a lot more of good and bad.

Many people just assume their label means they're good.

Our nation has been lead disastrously astray, and people really need to examine what is good and what is bad, how to be good, and if changes in their own behaviors are needed.

And to realize that to have good government, we must elect good people.

[Mike 03]

35. Yes. The unforced error he made is that it's closer to 30%.

[JDC]

44. Clearly low. Queue the "I'm a Bad Person" t-shirts

To be proudly worn by the Trumpanzees.

[BannonsLiver]

2. Okay.

[Drunken Irishman]

3. lol no one fucking cares.

I've seen more outrage on DU than anywhere else.

[Ninga]

5. I read, thought, decided, I would move on because I agree with Biden. Nt

[Greybnk48]

6. I don't see a problem? n/t

[bigtree]

7. yeah, he lowballed that number

..with 40% or so polling support for Trump.

So, no.

[idziak4ever1234]

15. Right on!

[stonecutter357]

8. you seem very concerned !

[agingdem]

10. no more pearl clutching..

stop trying to temper Joe...he's doing fine...fuzzy words wrapped in cotton candy is not Joe's style and that's what I love about him...

[Moostache]

11. Stop it....2016 "Deplorables" was spot-on...

Anyone who believes otherwise probably likes to say "all lives matter", "respect the flag" and "there is no systemic racism in America now". Or they are living in fear...

Stop living in fear of saying the "wrong thing", especially if and when its true.
There ARE bad people in America, and 15% MAY be a low ball estimate...to me, that number is whatever Trump's job approval is because there is NO WAY good people, people of conscience or morals can see that heap of shit and his works, words and deeds and NOT be sickened by it or at the VERY least disturbed and disapproving...

[Blecht]

66. +1000

Clinton is proven right every day.

They are deplorable.

In fact, deplorable was too kind.

Evil, sadistic, brain-dead goat fuckers is still too kind.

[radius777]

78. +1. And it was an intentional campaign strategy

by Team Hillary to force the 'good' Repubs and right-leaning independents into a moral dilemma, where they would want to be in the 'good' basket and not a 'deplorable'.

Hillary was well on her way, by all metrics, to an easy win and it was Comey's last minute bombshell that shifted the late breakers dramatically to Trump - facts.

The only people upset by the deplorables thing tend to be heartland Dems who actually care what the deplorables think, believing that somehow they will 'come back home' to the Dem party (they never will, they're Dixiecrats who are long gone).

[billh58]

12. Your concern is

duly noted.

[W_HAMILTON]

13. Your concern is duly noted.

[ProfessorGAC]

14. The Truth Is An Unforced Error?

If anything, he's underestimating.
And it's the truth.
Where's the unforced error? That the number is unscientific? 50% of the country understands nearly nothing about science.
There's no harm done here. You're knee is jerking so hard you may need a orthopedist.

[milestogo]

16. He's the gaffe guy. Everyone has known that about him for decades.

But he's not a liar, he's not mean, and when you compare him to Trump he's an angel.

[Squinch]

25. How is this a gaffe?

[milestogo]

59. Its not a smart thing to say if you want to be president

of a whole country.

[Squinch]

77. Why not?

[Demsrule86]

79. I don't consider Biden to have Gaffes...I prefer the truth...and I hate polished politicians who use

many words to say nothing. What he said is true...there are bad people in this country.

[milestogo]

83. How about when he described Barack Obama as "clean"?

[Demsrule86]

94. How about you stop attacking our nominee...trying to say he meant something wrong...Biden is

the only one who can beat Trump. And I like his honesty. You don't like Biden fine...but I suggest you keep it to yourself until after the election.

[milestogo]

104. I do like Biden, and honestly, he is gaffe prone.

You don't have to pretend someone is flawless to support them as a candidate.

[Demsrule86]

109. You call it 'gaffes'. I call it truth telling...and of course the double standard on both the far

right and the far left...who pick apart everything Biden says. And no I don't mean you.

[radius777]

80. Bitecofer has shown how negative partisanship

is the defining feature of modern day politics.

Rachel Bitecofer/February 26, 2020
TNR - Hate Is on the Ballot:The hidden dynamic that’s transformed our politics—and will loom large in the 2020 election.
https://newrepublic.com/article/156402/hate-ballot

My forecasting model for the 2018 midterms predicted an enormous Democratic wave in the House, mostly by focusing on a dynamic known in political-science circles as negative partisanship. The idea behind negative partisanship is simple, harking back to Henry Adams’s definition of politics as the “organization of hatreds.” The determination to vote out the opposition—and the broader trend of acute polarization within the American political system—has altered virtually every facet of our political life. Negative partisanship is affecting the behavior of voters and reshaping the voting coalitions aligned behind each major party.

In short, demonizing the opposing base, as well as mobilizing your own is the key to winning.

Not to the extreme Trump does it - but it's something that must be done in this bitterly divided environment.

[helpisontheway]

91. Compared to Trump? Really? 🙄nt

[LanternWaste]

98. Another allegation any any direct evidence to support it.

In so many words, just another bumper sticker.

(you can rationalize below why objective evidence is not necessary... I'm sure someone will pretend to believe it)

[stonecutter357]

89. trump is a racist pig so ...........

[Botany]

17. These are not good people, Christians, and or Americans .... We will never get their votes anyway

Fuck 'em.

[Doremus]

70. 100-1 they're Eric Prince mercenaries. nt

[crickets]

84. You're right.

They look nothing like the sad BOP crew in front of the White House the other day.

[Doremus]

93. Yep, and you and I are paying their (considerable) salaries.

To say nothing of armed mercenaries being deployed against AMERICANS IN AMERICA. The founders are rolling in their graves.

[Music Man]

18. So far, most responses have been what I expected:

"But it's true! It's probably 40%! What's the problem?"

Because it's bad electoral strategy, and that is my point. It is a political error to use this kind of rhetoric.

I would like to win this election. And the fact that Biden can say it's 10-15%, but others on here say it's probably much more means that the remark has no empirical basis. Biden's just spitballing, and the press tends not to cover that favorably, especially from Democrats. Biden may be known as someone who speaks his mind, but discretion is a virtue too.

[Squinch]

23. Yes, Music Man, this is SUCH an important hill to plant your flag on. You should go do that.

[Demsrule86]

95. Right such outrage over calling out Trump supporters...maybe Biden should say they are 'good'

people? Um no. Some don't like Biden and will jump on any little thing...they help no one but Trump.

[Nature Man]

45. Pussy grabbing might be the best electoral strategy

[BannonsLiver]

71. What are your credentials?

[Peacetrain]

19. Oh for the love of God... this is what gets you to post.. your concern is duly noted

[MineralMan]

20. I can sense your concern. However, the percentage should be higher.

Never mind, though. Will your concern stop you from voting for Joe?

[Music Man]

29. Obviously not.

But I'm not worried about Biden losing DU.

It's the wishy washy, undecided folks I want on board, the ones who helped Democrats deliver landslides in 2018. I want Biden to carry Iowa, Missouri, Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida and crush Trump 55-45% nationally.

I don't think wanting Biden to avoid unhelpful remarks is antithetical to supporting Biden, but rather an integral part of supporting him, borne out of a desire to see him win convincingly.

Despite the glee of many here, I guarantee you that Biden's advisers did not feel that way today, but were instead annoyed at having to clean it up.

[MineralMan]

30. Not obvious at all, really.

I'm not familiar enough with you to know what you think.

Joe's doing just fine. Unfortunately, he understated the number of "bad people."

[octoberlib]

87. I live in NC so I know why you're worried but he didn't label them and

the numbers were too low to be referring specifically to trump's base. He could always say he was talking about white supremacists and murderers.

[Squinch]

21. Sigh.

[rogue emissary]

22. Nope, pick any of Donny's tweets.

From threatening to declare war on Americans, to his "when the looting starts the shooting starts." Biden is fine low balling the amount of bad people in this country.

[gratuitous]

28. I agree

One "is that a gaffe" comment from Biden every week or so is nothing compared to the daily onslaught of gaffes put out by Trump. And as we've seen over and over again in the last 3+ years, even if there's nothing to be "outraged" about, Republicans will fabricate something to be outraged about. Right now it's Hunter Biden and Ukraine, a complete nothingburger that Sen. Graham is futilely trying to inflate into . . . well, something, for his nitwit brigades to upset themselves about.

[rogue emissary]

31. Yeap, we do are side no favors repeating their

talking points about Biden misspeaking.

Now if we don't like or agree with a statement of his. I don't have a problem calling him out. Framing it as a misstep or unforced error fora true, statement only helps the GOP.

[maxsolomon]

24. I agree that it's unneccessary.

It gives President Slander a punch line, another "we're under attack" rallying cry for the MAGAts. I heard the "Deplorable" badge of honor from rock-ribbed Eastern Washingtonians right away in 2016, and Clinton wasn't even talking about them.

Watch, Asshole will take this up immediately.

Making white people feel threatened is the entire goal of the RW Noise Machine.

[Drunken Irishman]

48. Not remotely the same as the deplorables comment.

Hillary was raked over the coals because she specified half, or whatever, of Trump supporters wre deplorable.

Biden didn't tie this to Trump or his supporters. He said in general. That's a big fucking difference because it doesn't link to any specific person.

[maxsolomon]

60. Its not the same, but

it is remotely similar - or the OP and I wouldn't have seen a parallel.

We shall see if the RWNM runs with it.

[Drunken Irishman]

72. Absolutely it is not remotely similar.

Hillary attacked specific people. Biden did no such thing.

Any comparison is flat out moronic.

[rusty fender]

62. Sure, because

swing voters in MI, WI, and PA are all about nuance

[Drunken Irishman]

74. No nuance needed.

Biden didn't mention shit.

[stillcool]

27. amazing.

[hatrack]

32. Susan Collins was here a minute ago looking for you . ..

Did you two end up connecting?

[Music Man]

34. Yeah, because wanting Biden to have some discipline is the same as being a nervous Republican.

[hatrack]

36. Goodbye, little 395-poster.

.

[Music Man]

39. Ad hominems

[cwydro]

50. I never get the belittling of people based on post count.

Did you start with an enormous amount of posts?

I started with one post.

[Music Man]

55. It's a way of not addressing the argument itself.

"You have a problem with something Biden said AND you have a low post count? You must be a Russian bot. Or a Republican troll."

As if reading threads and only occasionally posting, especially if one has a demanding job and doesn't hang around DU all day, is an invalid way of being a member of this site.

It's a shame that suggesting something Biden says is unhelpful politically (specifically *because* you want Biden to win) is met with questions about your progressive bona fides and skepticism about why you're on this board.

[cwydro]

58. I've seen people with high post counts called trolls too.

But I agree with your point.

[rusty fender]

68. You are are in a losing battle,

Music Man. I lost this same battle when I criticized Biden’s “You ain’t black” remark.

I learned that we cannot quote Biden’s questionable remarks because it is considered ‘bashing’ a Democratic candidate. We cannot even criticize anything about the current standard bearer of our party because Trumpass is so much worse.

We all know that Biden must win and we will all vote for him, but heaven forbid if we try to hold him to any standard at all

[Demsrule86]

101. Explain how ragging on Biden holds him to a 'standard'. What it does is help Trump. Biden must win

and Democrats need to have his back period and not post shit about him. I don't see how that is hard to understand.

[rusty fender]

111. I don't worship our

Party’s standard bearer; that’s what the other party does

[Demsrule86]

113. You mean the other party that wins, now controls the presidency, courts and Senate...that party?

It seems to me that your method is one that will has caused us to lose over and over. I for one worship Joe Biden and pray he is elected and would never do anything to make it less likely. I view those who do as part of the problem...no don't mean you...

[rusty fender]

114. I'm an atheist

I don’t worship anyone. It is a distortion of democracy to believe that you have to worship someone in order to vote for him/her

[BannonsLiver]

73. Who did you support in the primary?

[Demsrule86]

102. I would bet big money that it wasn't Biden.

[Demsrule86]

96. Attacking Biden for no good reason is what I call it.

[treestar]

63. lol

[obamanut2012]

85. well done

[Chainfire]

33. It was an unwise thing to say.

The truth of the statement doesn't matter. Biden handed the conservatives the whip to flog himself with. You would have thought that he would have the effects of the "undesirables" statement firmly implanted in his head.

I do not want Biden to talk himself out of the presidency.

[renate]

40. I agree. The people who are sick of Trump's personality want to hear unity, not division

I guess you and I are in the minority, and this wasn't a huge error or anything, but "basket of deplorables" already didn't work well and I don't see the point of revisiting that mindset, however profoundly true it may be.

[Drunken Irishman]

49. It was perfectly fine. He handed no one anything.

[Squinch]

116. What was unwise about it?

[TheFarseer]

37. Romney put it at 47%

and almost won, so I think Joe will be fine.

[boston bean]

38. Blah blah blah. Let's stop wilting in our corners.

[BusyBeingBest]

41. Not sure why Presidential candidates feel compelled to quantify

how many people in the US are losers/bad/deplorable. Mitt Romney, Hillary, now Joe. It never works out for them. Stop doing it.

[Nature Man]

43. Maybe they should grab them by the pussy?

[BusyBeingBest]

46. That almost did him in, in truth. But the Comey decision reversed

the effects of it.

[Nature Man]

47. RW monkeys were creaming in their depends

They like it when Daddy Chump talks dirty.

[LanternWaste]

100. It Does Not Follow

Yours is another logical fallacy... but there's space provided free of charge below to rationalize why logic isn't necessary to support your wee sentiment.

[Nature Man]

42. "You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

Thank your for your concern, bruh.

Nice use of the "Democratic Plural" tho, very subtle in this instance. Everyone just knows "we" Democrats are monolithic and all think alike. /sarcasm

See thru!

[Sunsky]

51. No, it's not

It's not an unforced error. It's nothing to be concern about. There are bad people in the country and there is no sense in denying that.
Don't know the goal of this post, but nitpicking Biden's speech to find "errors" will not fly. It's so 2016. Trump just said it was a great day for a dead man because of the his Trumped-up economic numbers. A black man who was murdered by the police. Next...

[brooklynite]

52. To those who don't understand what the problem is...

Whenever you apply a generic critique to a smaller group, you then allow the Trump people do tell a much larger group that THEY were who Biden was referring to.

[ProfessorGAC]

82. Obvious. But, So What?

How many of those people who find it offensive were going to vote D anyway?
Your explanation belabored the obvious, but doesn't provide a convincing reason why it's a problem in today's already polarized era.

[kgrande63]

53. maybe it is a problem but it may be ignored

If this were a normal election, then the press would spend a day or two talking about this as a "gaffe" and it was not the best way of wording things. He should have simply said "There are mostly good people in this country" and left it at that. To know if this is going to be a problem , simply see how the news shows deal with it. Trump has already said a myriad of stupid things today and there is plenty of other news.
Mostly watch Fox with Bent B and then Martha M. See how much time they spend on it. They did not talk about Tara R much or last week when Biden really botched the interview with Charlamagne tha God. (He said something much worse then) This election is about Trump and how awful he is and there does not seem to be an attempt to make things a horse race yet.
Biden will continue to say these things , he is 78.
In a normal election year this might be news , but I am not sure anyone even cares now.

[PTWB]

54. I guess Biden thinks truth is more important than political expediency

Or maybe he thinks truth will overcome.

[Bettie]

56. It's' a mark in his favor for me

not couched in obscuring language, just a flat out truth.

[OneBro]

57. Reasonable people got your point.

As you later noted “Because it's bad electoral strategy, and that is my point. It is a political error to use this kind of rhetoric.”

You, like everyone else on DU (excluding a few pernicious trolls) wants to win the Presidency and the Senate while retaining the House. Ironically, while constructive criticism is very much appreciated when you’re at the table and in the trenches of a campaign, it generally gets a thumbs down here. You might remember, though, that anyone who made similar comments here about Clinton‘S campaign were promptly labeled “concern trolls” by people outraged that anyone foolish enough to suggest that Trump could win.

DU is more of a Democratic emotional support group with amazing resources for staying informed. Many of us are suffering PTSD from years of a Trump presidency, a McConnell senate, and a growing right-wing judiciary, so try not to take it personally. For some, Joe can make no gaff that matters because there’s just no way, no way I tell you, that Trump can win again. For others, given a senate and a White House working closely with Russia, Fox News, Sinclair, Facebook and 85% of white evangelicals working tirelessly to get Trump re-elected, any concern isn’t just “duly noted,” it’s understandable. Yes, we know we have to bring an A+ game while Trump brings a D- game (the only reason he doesn’t get an F is because he is clearly a master at riling up his fellow racists).

In short, unless you’re at the campaign table, consider biting your tongue when gaffs happen because they happen in EVERY campaign. Republicans got a lot of juice out of Obama’s “You didn’t build that” comment even though it was a true statement. Still, it was considered a gaff because such comment (“Spread the wealth”) on the campaign trail was predictably manipulated, twisted, repackaged, and milked.

Ok, I’ll stop. Now you know what happens when I’ve had 2 cups of coffee and I start my day with DU instead of the New York Times.

Be well, and hang tough. I’ll take honest concern over apathy any time, any day.

[wishstar]

61. He was referring to those who were violent and looting as the minority vs. majority of good people

Many Americans need the dose of reality that it is just a minority of lawbreakers acting violently and criminally during the protests vs. the vast majority who are sincerely and peacefully protesting.

[treestar]

64. He's running against Dotard Donnie

who has said many and worse things, all "unforced" so who cares?

[Hekate]

65. The basket of deplorables still has people who can be persuaded? Not bloody likely. Call them out...

...for being the thugs they are -- thugs who want a shooting war in America.

[comradebillyboy]

67. It's a nothing burger....

[I_UndergroundPanther]

69. I'm glad Biden said it

Most people know someone in thier lifetime that is a monster . They know the danger of bad people. They know the harm and abuse they cause..since narcissism,Sociopathy and Authoritarianism has been nurtured by everything from domestic violence and child abuse funding cuts, to faux news and hate radio and mercenaries in DC.

For way too long in this country abuse of power been tolerated from individual sick families
to sending vets to illegitimate wars and they come home with PTSD..and the denial that some people are toxins because of thier personality and who they are can't go on.. What he said was the truth. However he lowballed it.

And I am glad he said it .

[BannonsLiver]

81. It's not a gaffe.

[ismnotwasm]

76. Fucking deplorables

[Raine]

86. Agree nt

[roamer65]

88. The estimate is low.

It’s more like 25 to 35 pct.

[Hekate]

106. It certainly is a low estimate, when his base holds steady at 40%

A few of those might be "persuaded" to stay home on election day (or they might be sick, as the pandemic finally sweeps the rural areas), but it is beyond appalling that his poll numbers never sink below that.

[helpisontheway]

90. They are bad people!nt

[kentuck]

92. We really don't know how many people label themselves as "deplorables"?

It is probably not wise to label any person as "bad" and give percentages of the group?

[LanternWaste]

97. I s'pose that's the Trial Concern Point for the weekly lid.

It's weaker than old mayonnaise, stinks just as much, and lacks any evidence supporting its conclusions; but the hand-wringing was first rate and the melodrama spectacular.

[Hekate]

107. Ha!

[RGTIndy]

99. Oh my! Oh my my!

Where is the couch? I feel the vapors coming on.

[Polybius]

103. When did he say this?

I had no idea. Got a link?

[oasis]

105. Oh, yes we got trouble, trouble, trouble!

big , big trouble, right here in River City.

[SidDithers]

108. Thank you for your concern...

Sid

[Iggo]

110. That all you got?

Funny thing is, I'm literally washing my socks right now...lol.

[totodeinhere]

112. Okay, here is my take. Yes, there are a lot of "bad" people. Just how many I am not sure

but there certainly are a lot of them. But of course on the other hand, there are a lot of good people too including many friends I have made at DU.

But calling 15% bad will probably provide Trump with a talking point for his reelection campaign and we don't want that. In 2016 Hillary Clinton was correct with her "deplorables" comment, but was it a wise comment strategically? I don't think so because it gave Trump and Fox News a talking point that helped to rile up their base and get them out to the polls. We don't want to repeat that mistake.

[11 Bravo]

115. When the truth is an error, we are in fairly shitty shape as a country.