Looking for input on an often stated term...."accountable"

[bluecollar2]

I have my own views but I'm interested in hearing others....

The term is thrown around liberally but never defined...

[Doodley]

1. Donald Trump is very accountable...

...to Vladimir Putin.

[bluecollar2]

2. Meaning what exactly...n/t?

[Crunchy Frog]

4. It means that you don't have immunity from the consequences of your actions.

IMO this is the really critical structural problem that underlies all the problems in American law enforcement.

If bad actors never experience meaningful consequences no matter what they do, even up to brazen murder in public, in broad daylight, then there is nothing to deter them, and the problems will fester and get worse.

That's what comes from lack of accountability in policing.

[bluecollar2]

6. Excellent point

But...can it be reasonably argued that if the expectations of behaviour are not clearly defined, it then becomes difficult to hold individuals to a standard?

[Crunchy Frog]

7. Yes, of course there needs to be a defined standard.

Just like there is for everyone who is not a cop.

If they deviate from that standard and cause harm, then they need to experience real, meaningful consequences. Accountability.

[bluecollar2]

8. Thanks for your response

Hopefully we'll get more input.

From my perspective it's hard to hold a person accountable if the expectations and standards aren't clearly defined.

Obviously there are certain standards that shouldn't need defining...for instance striking an unarmed person in the face with a baton is unacceptable...

By the same token...if the unarmed person spits in the officers face...that should be considered unacceptablr...

[Crunchy Frog]

9. So what do you think would happen to you

if you walked up to someone, pulled out a club, and smashed them in the face?

Do you have some conception of what the legal standards and expectations are, or are these a mystery to you?

[bluecollar2]

10. I have a clear understanding of

What should happen if I were to do that as a civilian.

I also know that such behaviour on a normal day is defined as unacceptable.

But...

If I spit in someone's face...what are the ramifications?

I submit that we may have to clearly define our expectations of acceptable behaviour in order to define "accoumtability"

[Crunchy Frog]

11. I already agreed with you on that in a previous post

and I think just about everyone would agree that law enforcement needs to have clearly defined standards in order to have accountability.

I believe the spitting would constitute battery, especially during a pandemic.

I'm not sure what it is that you're trying to get at, so I'm disengaging from this discussion rather than continuing to go around in circles with you.

Good luck with your thread.

[bluecollar2]

12. Thanks for contributing...n/t

[Hoyt]

3. "If you do the crime, you do the time."

[bluecollar2]

5. Thanks for your input...

But I was looking for a more specific interpretation...

Who defines the "crime"

Who prosecutes the "crime"

What if the "crime" is defined but not prosecuted?

[Doodley]

13. A fascist regime lacks accountability, but demands accountability of its people.

The nearer you get to a democracy that works for all the people, the greater the accountability for all, including the government and the tools of law and order.

The flaws of the two-party system have been exposed, where one authoritarian party is indifferent towards, or in favor of, dividing the people for political purposes.