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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDid Hillary lose because she was a woman
I bring this up because I think Biden is going to win. And the reason he is going to win is because he will get these type of voters
1. Republicans who didnt like trump, but couldnt stand Hillary.
2. Democrats who just didnt bother to vote because they couldnt stand Trump, but couldnt stand Hillary.
Now the question is could they not stand Hillary because she was a woman or was 3 decades of negative press from the right wing or MSM....I think it is the latter.
JHB
(37,158 posts)...the quarter century campaign of character assassination against her, from Bill's primaries straight through the present day.
Being a woman was part of that, and is inextricably linked to it, so it's not a nice, neat division.
LisaM
(27,800 posts)I think it's naive to think that sexism didn't hurt her. And with the really razor-thin margin of votes that handed Trump the electoral college, I think it made the difference.
BlueMTexpat
(15,366 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I don't for a moment believe two years of polls that virtually all showed her always well, and often way, ahead, along with giant coattails for other races, were wrong. She was expected to win right up to after Labor Day when forces, including the FBI, AP, NYT, and no doubt Russia doubled down for the final stretch.
One clue is that as election day approached the previously totally reliable polls started bouncing wildly, like ping-pong balls, something that not only wouldn't but couldn't happen before. One day tens of millions more polled for her, two days later the margin favored him instead, back and forth, back and forth, repeat, repeat, repeat.
Uhuh. One time it's actually possible to vastly overestimate the stupidity of the electorate. This didn't happen.
ProfessorGAC
(64,988 posts)But as another poster said, the character accusations over 30 years contributed greatly.
Also, as popular as he was, her last name set off alarms with moderately informed voters. Whitewater & Lewinsky hung on both of them with a large enough fraction (10%?) to have been a problem too.
But, being a woman, with a history of high position scared enough snowflake voters into staying home, or even stupider, voting for Stein.
marble falls
(57,063 posts)CrispyQ
(36,446 posts)There was a ton of stealing/cheating anyway, but I honestly believe that Comey was the tipping point. I don't care how much he speaks out against the Con, I will never forgive him.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)I hate to say it but I think it played a huge part.
Chainfire
(17,526 posts)Add to that the racist element where so many right-wingers were rebelling about the Democrats giving them a black president.
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)think tRUMP/reTHUGS/cultists won't ratfuck Joe?
Chainfire
(17,526 posts)The Republicans will fight dirty because they know how much they have to lose.
There is no point in trying to beat the drum that Hillary had the election stolen from her. We lost that election. I think that Democrats were too complacent and that is why we lost. We made the great mistake of thinking that someone like Trump could not possibly be elected to the Presidency of the United States of America. Hillary also made strategic errors based upon overconfidence.
Sure the 2016 fight was dirty as hell, but that is the state of American politics today; if we win we have to be able to deal with it. We can not make the same mistake again and survive the consequences. The election is not a sure thing. According to the polls, Trump is more popular today than he was four years ago today. Trump has great power to dominate the news to the point that Biden's message can be lost in the background noise. Biden has to find a way to get his message before the people that will decide the election; those fence setters occupying the space between Trump lovers and Trump haters. If not, we won't win.
If Biden does not implode, and enough people turn out this time we will win not only the popular vote, but the electoral vote and hopefully make great gains in the Senate. If we do that, most of the damage Trump has done can be undone. It is just a damn shame that perhaps 200,000 Americans and the American economy had to be sacrificed to get rid of the lousy bastard.
If Democrats can't win against the current president, then we are done.
tinrobot
(10,893 posts)Some contributing factors:
1) Three decades of right-wing character assassination.
2) People really didn't know who Trump was (now they do)
3) Russian interference
4) Voter suppression
5) Bernie supporters refusing to get on board
6) Hillary's campaign could have been better.
Even with all that, she won by 3 million votes.
StarryNite
(9,442 posts)even if one had been different she would be in the White House. #3 made the biggest difference imho.
oregonjen
(3,335 posts)She didnt connect with voters. In Oregon, there were zero rallies. She decided it was best to fundraise privately in rich areas of the PDX metro, which frustrated a lot of people I know.
JI7
(89,244 posts)oregonjen
(3,335 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Claiming she didn't connect with Oregon voters makes absolutely no sense - she obviously connected with them enough to carry the state and get its electoral votes. So what difference did it make to the general election outcome that Bernie won the Oregon primary?
oregonjen
(3,335 posts)and there were many people who were apathetic about voting for her in the general election. Her campaign was terribly run. She didnt connect with a lot of voters.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)you must be glad he didn't get the nomination either time - since, he connected with fewer voters than either Hillary of Biden did... and, thus, by your standard, voters would be very apathetic about voting for him in a general election ...
oregonjen
(3,335 posts)In my opinion, her campaign was poorly run. Since I live in Oregon, I was using my experience as a voter here. My opinions and experiences are obviously way different than yours. Had Hillary chose to come to Oregon and meet with the people, not just private fundraisers, she would have perhaps been able to change a few more minds. If she chose not to hold big rallies nationwide, she perhaps lost some voters. It does make a difference when candidates come through towns and speak to the public. That was one part of her campaign that she failed at doing.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Hillary obviously campaigned enough in Oregon to carry the state in the general. If she had spent more time there and won the votes of every single Oregonian, that wouldn't have changed the outcome in any way- except perhaps it would have meant she devoted less time to and possibly lost other states she won narrowly, thereby resulting in fewer popular votes and a larger loss in the Electoral College.
JI7
(89,244 posts)than the people she was running against.
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)The only thing that kept Hillary from taking office was treason. She won by millions of votes.
Just stop.
FDR went to small towns because there were trains that went to small towns. There aren't anymore. DUH.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Butterflylady
(3,541 posts)A problem in my red area of PA. My late husband talked to a number of male democrats and one thing they all mentioned was that they didn't think a woman could handle the job. Why not, emotional stability. I know, that was bulls**t, but that was what he heard.
He was shocked when they also said they had voted for the idiot.
We moved shortly after.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)How are these men liking their "emotionally stable" president now?
Aristus
(66,310 posts)would that have persuaded them to vote for her? After all, she would have been behaving like a man...
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)enough
(13,256 posts)Joinfortmill
(14,410 posts)partly because she was a woman, but mostly it was the constant negativity.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)It is critical to get out the vote this year...and every year.
MichMan
(11,901 posts)George Bush in 1988
doc03
(35,324 posts)right wing propaganda machine for decades.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)qazplm135
(7,447 posts)of course it's not the only reason, but her politics are almost identical to Biden.
The demonization people talk about, that's because she was a woman too. She was too "uppity" as First Lady, and that animosity carried over to her political career.
jcgoldie
(11,627 posts)Skittles
(153,141 posts)while Trump was held to NO STANDARDS AT ALL
Blasphemer
(3,261 posts)The country was fed up enough with the GOP and either Obama or Clinton would have won. In 2016, the social and economic conditions were different so any Democrat was going to have a harder time. The backlash against Obama's presidency, the GOP's sexist multi-decade anti-Hillary agenda, and a push back against family dynasties, made in that much more difficult. I'm not convinced that no Democrat could have won or that no female Democrat could have won. It was close enough that with the right candidate, including a female candidate, we could have won despite any identity-related prejudices.
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)I expect them to try it again, too.
Everyone must vote blue, all blue and nothing but blue. Our very lives depend on it.
Ms. Toad
(34,059 posts)gender, or bad press. It isn't always and ism, or what others say. Sometimes we just don't like the candidate because of who she is.
Yes, I voted for her - but it was because there was no other option with any realistic possibility of defeating trump.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)But Hillary an extra burden of gender - that simply cannot be denied.
Ms. Toad
(34,059 posts)Who declared there were only two reasons for Democrats not to vote for Clinton.
jimlup
(7,968 posts)Seriously both factors were in play.
oasis
(49,370 posts)and voted for the only candidate who they KNEW would have their interests at heart.
Yes they knew it but, oh well.
JI7
(89,244 posts)he wanted to be on record as scolding the woman.
Xolodno
(6,390 posts)It was one small part of it however, but their plenty of other factors.......
1. She was practically ordained.
2. Bernie....and I supported Bernie..so shut up if you want to make an argument over that..and I still voted for her.
3. Her second run paled to her first.
4. Her husband carried some baggage that rolled into her first campaign...and second.
5. Energized GOP base after 8 years of Obama..doesn't matter he made their lives better.
JI7
(89,244 posts)the party out of power will always be energized after 8 years.
ecstatic
(32,679 posts)Caliman73
(11,728 posts)Her being a strong, intelligent, outspoken woman was definitely a large factor in why Trump was able to steal the electoral college. As others have said, the Republicans engaged, since the 90's, when Bill Clinton was elected President, in a smear campaign. Hillary had 25+ years of unfair baggage that she carried into the election. Biden, while having some problems, has not been the focus of hatred in such a sustained manner. I do attribute that to Hillary being a woman and being so prominent for so many years.
The issue is not either or. Hillary received 3 decades of negative press BECAUSE she is a woman. Her husband was President, had many more problems, that he brought upon himself, but has a higher positive rating than she does. Biden has been in politics longer than Hillary has, and has had more gaffes but everyone likes him. I don't think that anyone in politics other than maybe President Obama, was attacked in such a coordinated manor, and President Obama was only attacked for about 9 or 10 years when he ran for and was elected President. Racism is very much alive in this country AND so is SEXISM which is one of the reasons why we do not have a woman candidate and why an all woman ticket was such a scary thing, even to Democrats. Think about it, we have had one Black man as president in 240+ years and ONE woman presidential candidate in the same amount of time, except women are about 51% of the population.
betsuni
(25,453 posts)for being most admired woman (20 times).
But then the lies began and people were all too eager to believe in the fictional character it created and forget the actual person. Lustful for the chance to hate, even. From all sides except the Democratic base who knew her and didn't fall for all the crap.
Republicans had their own long-term anti-Hillary propaganda and by 2016 the Republican Party had become a nutty white nationalist party, so no chance of votes from them. In 2008 there were roughly the same number of white Democrats and Republicans. Over the Obama administration whites flocked to the Republican Party. What clinched it was targeted propaganda from other directions, the Comey letter, first election since new voter laws, total failure of MSM.
Elizabeth Warren was popular, many said they'd totally vote for her if she had run in 2016, that it wasn't a woman running that they didn't like, it was THAT woman, the cartoon Hillary they were told was corrupt and mindlessly believed it. Then Elizabeth ran. Suddenly they didn't like her either, for vague reasons. In both cases it boiled down to either vague reasons or lies they believed.
I thought nobody would be as disrespected as President Obama. I was wrong. With him they still pretended that it was about policy or a tan suit or mustard or being a Muslim and it was still pretty much a political game, but with Hillary it was personal, she was immoral and evil and murdered people and couldn't be trusted not to be worse than Trump. It became deadly serious.
Joe won't get that, he's a guy.
DeminPennswoods
(15,273 posts)They attacked her and Bill non-stop for 30+ years. That took a toll for sure.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Buckeye_Democrat
(14,853 posts)Most of my right-wing coworkers in 2008 were FAR more excited by Palin than McCain. Does that mean they were less sexist than liberals? No!
Hillary Clinton was attacked relentlessly by right-wing propagandists for years before she ever ran for President, and it seeps into the minds of people eventually even if they only listen to Limbaugh and his kind occasionally during their drives to and from work. And it can be a major struggle to change minds after they've got a negative first impression.
The GOP recognized Hillary Clinton's big ambitions long ago, and they indeed called it correctly.
Obama was more of a shock to them, otherwise they might've started a propaganda effort against him long ago and he wouldn't have stood a chance. If they had the Rev. Jeremiah Wright stuff long ago and guessed that Obama would run for President, then Obama wouldn't have become President. The "first impression" set by those guys would've have been too much to overcome.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)#1 was a thing.
And there are also still plenty of 1 issue voters.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Part was her lead was so large stupid people did not bother to vote. She even put an ad about it out. This is the big problem. It is how Republicans win, especially in midterms.
mcar
(42,298 posts)Lots of factors, of course, but her sex was part of it. How many of us were derided for being "vagina voters?"
I was amazed at how many supposedly liberal men said she wasn't qualified.
The most qualified person in generations to run for president and she wasn't qualified?
Just like there is systemic racism, there is systemic sexism. Women are held to a higher standard.
Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)
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Bettie
(16,086 posts)but given this primary cycle, I think being a woman definitely had a lot more to do with it than I previously thought.
There were very qualified women running and we ended up with a nominee who is white, and male...like all but one who came before.
Once he said he'd choose a female VP...well, every thread about a possible VP choice has posts about how he "hamstrung" himself by making such a promise, as if there are no qualified women out there.
And that's here, in what is supposed to be a liberal community.
edhopper
(33,556 posts)She was the choice of the majority of voters.
The election was stolen!
It was the 2019 NFL Championship of Presidential Elections. (Saints / Rams)
DFW
(54,334 posts)And it was THE MEDIA that did her in.
They reported EVERY little accusation brought against her as if it were a provable murder charge, and let Trump off with a slap on the wrist. They cut off her speeches after the first 30 to 90 seconds while running Trump's diatribes even if they lasted half an hour. The Media chose to skew their "reporting (and I use that term loosely in this case)," and got a predictable result.
Their "who? us?" attitude afterward was never very convincing. They knew what they were doing, they just didn't realize how badly they tipped the scales in Trump's favor. Their cries of innocence and good intentions ring about as true as Big Tobacco's claim that smoking is not harmful to anyone's health.
Azathoth
(4,607 posts)Hillary lost because she was an extremely unpopular candidate that Republicans had been campaigning against relentlessly for 25 years. Who also happened to be under FBI investigation a week before the election. The simple truth is that if she had been up against a credible opponent like Jeb, she would have been the underdog in the race.
The people who didn't vote for her because she was a woman are not going to vote for Joe Biden either.