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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy does our side complicate things? Again!
This Defund the police messaging is aggravating as hell! Of course it doesnt mean eliminate police departments. But weve shot ourselves in the foot because now our folks have to either spend a lot of time explaining what it really means. Why couldnt we say something like Reform the Police, or Clean Up the Police, or Get Racists out of the Police?
I mean the damn tRumpers may have shit for policy positions, but you dont need five minutes to explain their slogans! If they put out a new slogan that simply says We are Assholes! They can move on to the next propaganda bullshit without stopping to explain.
Obviously the Defund tag is not going to get us any additional votes by itself. So when we go into here is what it really means... the audience starts hearing blah, blah, blah.
And despite how nice the polls are looking right now, about five months out, we are going to need those additional votes!
walkingman
(7,606 posts)this is just a rally call to the GOP base who are desperately looking for some reason to support the Orange man.
Midnight Writer
(21,753 posts)The phrase makes it sound like Democrats want to do away with law enforcement.
Of course, it is more nuanced than that, but people who are afraid don't pay attention to nuance.
In an election, if you are explaining, you are losing.
crimycarny
(1,351 posts)Havent we figured out by now that the vast majority of voters dont do nuance? Remember the death panels?? Havent we learned ANYTHING?
Yes changes need to be made to how police are funded versus social programs, etc. But none of those changes are going to happen if Joe Biden doesnt win the election.
walkingman
(7,606 posts)walkingman
(7,606 posts)people would vote based upon political ads. So they would vote GOP because of this? Or just not vote? That's ridiculous.
MH1
(17,600 posts)they don't care any more about your other positions.
And, "defund the police" may not really mean that (really?) but that is what people hear. Especially with the help of the chattering class telling them what they heard.
Most average people DO think that there is value to having a police department. Of those, all the decent human beings who are paying attention ALSO think there is a desperate need for reform. But their own families and security will come FIRST.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)I started seeing it here several days ago and I have been wondering where that came from.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)Many municipalities allocate over half their budget to the police department. That is insane. Much of that money ought to go to infrastructure and social programs.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Of course the right wing jumped on it, but we don't have to own it.
Just keep saying "Reform Police" - insist on it anytime someone brings up "defund".
idziak4ever1234
(1,257 posts)elleng
(130,893 posts)doc03
(35,328 posts)gift to the Republicans. I mean how would that work
some people do need arrested. We have serious drug problems here and shooting every few days . Most of the time it is someone from the bigger cities either Cleveland or Chicago. We do need cops just not bad ones.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)the police came to our school to tell us about the horrors of drugs which they told us were being abused in epidemic proportions. That was 50 years ago. In that time the police and the legal system have been the primary means this country has used to stop that epidemic. That has been an abject failure. Law enforcement has a pretty clear role in stopping shootings and catching the people who do shoot other people. They need to get the fuck out of drug abuse issues, they have only and really can only make it much worse. That is one area where the police need to be defunded, like it was an elective band program in a public school.
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)you are more interested in counting voters than ending a centuries old corrupt institution that NEEDS TO BE ***DOWNSIZED***. Not reformed, ***DOWNSIZED***, then you may be part of the problem.
That word is accurate. Defund. Spend less money on cops. Put the money other places. On mental health institutions, in infrastructure building to provide jobs.
STOP SPENDING MONEY ON COPS.
I sense that cops make white people feel safe, and defunding them is frightening.
But if a Republican freaks out about defunding the police, breaking the prison industrial complex, and putting the money into our communities, to provide jobs and mental health assistance...
They can go fuck themselves.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)I took two runs at writing something and was about to take another to try to say this. If only there had been this kind of hue and cry when our schools were being defunded.
modrepub
(3,495 posts)In my state it's not uncommon for state police to rack up lots of overtime late in their careers to pump up their final retirement pension pay outs. As a government worker, all overtime was eliminated unless it was approved by several layers of management back in the 90s. More often, you were given "comp-time", which is basically paid leave (not a bad thing but not $).
I can see some overtime given the line of work but police departments probably do much more of this than necessary.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)maxsolomon
(33,327 posts)The DU "Perfect is the Enemy of the Good" Squad is on high alert today.
crimycarny
(1,351 posts)OMG...way to hand GOP the lifeline they needed.
MenloParque
(512 posts)Out here in far left coast San Franciscans are indeed yelling for defunding (not reform) of police. The message is a bad one. Police hate in the city by the bay is high and gun sales are through the roof. Whoever is in charge of creating buzz phrases needs approval from a focus group. We are missing the mark in catch phrases. No malarkey!
BannonsLiver
(16,370 posts)Anyway, the Biden camp nipped this in the bud today. So not worried about it. Just more flailing from Donnie Dumpkins.
lostnfound
(16,177 posts)Our candidates ought to be saying -
- its a far cry from Andy Griffith to Derek Chauvin, and they just need to return to protect and serve
- lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater
- if we abolish the police, rich people will be able to hire investigators and security guards, poor people will be defenseless
- your child is kidnapped or your neighbor is robbed, you need police to help you, whether you are poor or rich.
-The same people that dont want government to provide social security or public schools or a post office or public highways, also don't want government to provide police.
- we should spend less money and police time on victimless crimes and more on solving murder cases, finding rapists, and finding missing persons.
Beartracks
(12,809 posts)... because it was so obviously going to be purposely misconstrued on the right to mean "stop funding."
But if we suddenly start calling it something else more appropriate, the right will be all: "See? They had to rename their efforts to hide what they're doing! Make no mistake, they want to abolish cops!!1!!!"
Think how "global warming" became, more accurately, "climate change." Many on the right still think the term was changed because they "proved" the globe wasn't REALLY warming because winter still exists -- thus forcing libruls to come up with some new strategy to brainwash America's kidz into planting trees and to steal all the lucrative research grants or whatever.
When the left comes up with the shorthand names for its proposals, they seriously SERIOUSLY need to consider how the words are going to be interpreted by Joe Sixpack who's not a policy wonk and is not paying a lot of attention to politics, but *is* likely to be targeted for brainwashing by rightwing media.
Make Republicans have to try to explain their opposition to Democratic policies and proposals instead of making it so all they have to do is point at the name and scare people with an easy lie.
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LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)A handful of ineffectual posters, the sky-is-falling squad and the allegedly concerned seem to be the only ones who bring it up.
Everyone else rolls our eyes at the implication and often perceive (rightfully or no) the latter to be less-than-sincere in an obvious attempt at baiting the lowest common denominator for less than noble purposes.
jayfish
(10,039 posts)When will this mindset go away? They are going to categorize us in the worst way possible on EVERY issue.
DE-FUND THE POLICE!
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)when Secretary Clinton talked about the Basket of Deplorables. Not only did that basket exist it was much bigger and more inclusive of the Republican party than she said it was. There was a mass tut-tut by Democrats that were concerned the feeling of the poor deplorables were going to get hurt. A bit of courage would really be welcome here.
crimycarny
(1,351 posts)Hillary lost. The concern was never for the feelings of the deplorables, it was for the way the right would spin it. Hillary already had issues connecting with those in the Midwest. Im from the Midwest so I cringed when I heard her use that term. Not because she wasnt correct, but I knew how it would be perceived. See? Hillary Wall Street elitist is looking down on us. And, no, its not a case of those people werent going to vote for her anyway. Many were on the fence and that remark fed right into the anti-Hillary right wing narrative.
This is not about whether or not police funding needs a major overhaul...it does...but if we cry DEFUND THE POLICE I can 100% guarantee you that will turn off a massive number of Midwest blue collar voters.
So change the message, not the idea.
are those Midwest folk happy now with the way things have turned out? The message I am getting from them is people can BE deplorable, you just cannot SAY they are deplorable. Sickening.
honest.abe
(8,678 posts)Whoever came up with that should have their head examined.
cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)Defund means redistribution of the funds currently set aside for the Police.
Defund means reducing funds, not elimination.
Defund means reallocation.
Defund means reform.
Just some ideas...we need to quit running away from our message simply because we get challenged.
Kaleva
(36,295 posts)vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)Seriously this will not stick and won't matter in the coming months. Everyone acting like its giving them a win. People who are voting repug are gonna vote that way no matter what.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)to a counter-meme of "Defend the Police". It might bring back the suburban soccer moms that Trump lost in the midterms.
GeorgeGist
(25,320 posts)I still do.