For the love of God, can't we come up with better framing than "Defund the Police?"

[markpkessinger]

I am very supportive of the aims of the "Defund the Police" movement. But calling itself by that slogan is a political loser if ever I've seen one.

And it isn't even an accurate description of what is actually being proposed. No one is suggesting that funding for policing services should be eliminated. What they are calling for is the reallocation of some of the vast sums of money that we have been directing towards policing in recent years to social and community services that are needed to address the underlying problems of inequality. The slogan, "Defund the Police" is clearly designed to appeal to the emotions of certain parts of the left, but unfortunately, it is also guaranteed to evoke an instantaneous rejection by at least some folks in the center and on the right, who might be persuaded if it were framed a little better.

"Defund the Police" is a poorly chosen slogan, and ultimately, a self-defeating one.

[redstatebluegirl]

1. I totally agree!

[pwb]

2. I get what it says?

No problem here.

[elleng]

3. Sadly too late,

like 'global warming.'

[Doodley]

4. Policing for the people.

[pattyloutwo]

37. I like that

[mzmolly]

5. Agree!

It's ridiculous.

I can see the political ads now.

[Doodley]

6. It's funny though that Republicans would have a problem, they talk about defunding

Obamacare all the time, and replacing it with nothing.

[stopdiggin]

42. and you've just illustrated why it's a really crappy idea

Last edited Tue Jun 9, 2020, 02:02 AM - Edit history (1)

coming from the left.
This has LOSER written ALL over it. Have to say I'm a little embarrassed for the people that picked up the torch. But they should DROP IT as quickly as they can find a murky puddle where it can find a quick and painless death.
--- -- -- ---

[aikoaiko]

7. Sounds like the framing is working. People are talking about what it means.

Public Service Infrastructure Reorganization isn't very catchy.

[Thomas Hurt]

8. There is controlling the narrative, and then there is conceding the narrative which what this is.

You would think those right leaning libertarians would be all for this.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

9. I agree with you, but

...when you say, "'Defund the Police' is clearly designed to appeal to the certain parts of the left,..." you're slightly wrong, but still wrong all the same.

Though the creators of the slogan are certainly not planning to vote for Trump and would vote for Biden (if they vote), "Defund the Police" is not a political slogan.

If you remember, Trayvon Martin, Mike Brown, Sandra Bland, and Tamir Rice were all killed during the Obama administration. The "Defund the Police" slogan is not created with a political party in mind. This movement doesn't think a President or political party would have any bearing at all on the murders of Black citizens in the United States at the hands of the police and law enforcement.

Politically speaking, I do wish they would change the name, though. That way, such a nuanced discussion would not have to be explained in a culture where soundbites and headlines serve as news.

[zak247]

14. Its easy: REFORM THE POLICE

That's all you have to say

REFORM THE POLICE

A child could see that

This is clearly an attempt at attention from some utter stupid people or something worse

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

17. I like Reform the Police better,

...but it still does not call for the defunding. Either way, I'm just responding on this board and reporting what protesters have said when I've engaged with them.

I will say this, though: The protesters aren't even mostly Black, and quite a few of them are connected to the white middle class either through their families or there friends. I pointed this out for political reasons. These protesters can definitely be turned into solid DEM voters in November.

[zak247]

10. From the deep state for trump

Came this obvious dog of an idea.

Some Trump supporters or super Susan Sarandon types who want to take us to hell started this lame idea

The hell with that stupid jack-assess who want to hand another gift to Trump.

How stupid can you be!

[tavernier]

11. I would hate to lose ground because of a badly worded sentence.

Especially with almost half a year to go.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

15. We're making a mistake here...

...in thinking we can change much with the protesters right now. Our best bet would be to try to flesh out the nuances of the slogan.

One thing we can almost be sure of here, the murderous Klansmen on these police forces will most certainly murder or assault another Black citizen before November, and the marches and the calls for "defunding" won't stop.

[stopdiggin]

43. but we can certainly deny them mainstream support.

Biden has already said he won't go along. And BLM has achieved major mainstream backing and support (NASCAR, NBA, NFL, Fortune 500 CEOs, mainstream religions, even large swaths of the GOP). I guess you can march to whatever drummer you chose .. but even the people that are showing up and hitting the streets .. are mostly heading in a different direction.

[beachbumbob]

12. its a loser topic for sure, its not about defunding as we will ALWAYS have cops of one type or

another, its about accountability and having skin in the game

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

18. The good thing is...

...that there is still time to explain what "defund the police means." On its face, the slogan sounds silly. When/if the media starts covering this, the true meaning will be fleshed out.

[markpkessinger]

20. I hope you're right about that . . .

. . . but I fear we've given the Trump campaign a potent talking point.

[stopdiggin]

44. it's being sliced and diced right now (nt)

[backscatter712]

28. Yep. "Defund the police" is bad framing.

I'm sure a lot of people are going to tell me the whole idea - defund the bad cops, or defund the toxic PDs, and (the important part) - replacing them with something better - community policing models & such. Worked in Camden NJ.

The problem is the messaging. You and I might know the nuances, but Edgar and Matilda in Kansas won't. When you try to explain it to them, their eyes will glaze over, and your message will go in one ear and out the other. And then they'll flip back to FOX "News" - how do you think FOX is telling their viewers about this?

Better framing and messaging is what's needed.

Like I posted earlier today, a better slogan is "POLICE THE POLICE!" It's short, simple, and turns the GOP's "Law & order" schtick on its head and back upon itself. Another idea is "STOP TOXIC COPS!"

Also, one hint for coming up with slogans. Try chanting them. If you can see yourself and a big crowd chanting this, say at a BLM march, it's a winner. If you're using too many long words, or your slogan's too long, it'll be hard to chant.

Messaging and framing are important, and we need to know how to message well if we're going to win this one. We're lucky in that Trump himself can't message well, and his circle of sycophants have given up on trying to get him off of Twitter. And three of the GOP's campaign Sith Lords (Steve Schmidt, Rick Wilson, George Conway) switched to our side and formed the Lincoln Project, since even they know that Trump is such a monumental piece of shit. We're fortunate - I know they're frenemies, and they're gonna be back on team R for the following election, but this election, take advantage of the opportunity to learn their evil genius while it's applied to a deserving target.

[markpkessinger]

30. I don't think the topic is necessarily a loser . . .

. . . but I definitely think the framing is.

[msongs]

13. defund police unions nt

[PlanetBev]

16. Picking Val Demings as VP might help diffuse this slogan

She was the chief of police of Orlando, Florida. Just might take the wind out of Trump’s law and order sails and leave him like a pinned moth.

[The Magistrate]

19. "Police The Police!' Is a Far Better Slogan, Sir

As suggested by a DU member, Mr. Backscatter712, here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213564482

[mvd]

22. Agree, it may work with a greater amount of people

When you have to explain a slogan, sometimes it isn’t right.

I agree with the premise of “defund the police” because I understand it: in some locations, the funding can be redirected to the community. In a similar way, we can reduce defense spending to boost the safety net.

[markpkessinger]

23. I agree that "Police the Police" is better . . .

. . . but unfortunately, it doesn't accurately convey what is really being talked about either. I listened to a terrific interview today with Alex Vitali, author of "The End of Policing," from which many of the ideas of this movement have come. You read (or listen) to it here: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/would-defunding-police-make-us-safer/612766/?fbclid=IwAR3mSnWPAMTeOWNIPOWcnO-raqavxgJvUKkPotvl1BO_da-hYwtpubAv9Po

[The Magistrate]

24. Under Any Slogan, Sir, You Can Carry Out a Desired Policy

You have to get people rallied to the cause, and people will rally to 'police the police'. It is precisely the understanding this is necessary that accounts for the bulk of the crowds, and of the popular support for the demonstrations. Once political backing sufficient for official action exists, diverting some funds from police to community support can certainly be presented as 'policing the police' without anyone missing a beat.

[markpkessinger]

26. Good point! n/t

[AlexSFCA]

21. If GOP was in charge of marketing, they'd call it "Improve the police"

if that’s what the goal is, or is the goal to simply defund with no other changes? Defunding it won’t eliminate racism.

[markpkessinger]

25. The goal is to redirect some of the massive sums of money . . .

. . . that have been thrown at police departments in recent years. I listened earlier today to a terrific interview with Alex Vitali, author of "The End of Policing,"which is where many of the ideas of this movement originated. (You can read or listen to it at https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/would-defunding-police-make-us-safer/612766/?fbclid=IwAR3mSnWPAMTeOWNIPOWcnO-raqavxgJvUKkPotvl1BO_da-hYwtpubAv9Po.)

Vitali points out that most of the efforts made to date, including the emphasis on implicit bias workshops, have had minimal effect in addressing the problem, because the underlying causes are fundamentally social problems, which police are not and never have been equipped to deal with.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

29. We should be careful, though...

...these protesters are on the front lines of this fight and have been activists for quite some time. Our attempts at making them fit into something to suit our political aspirations could backfire.

Again, Black murder by the police has happened regardless of the political party being in office.

[The Magistrate]

31. If Our Activists Were Any Good At Framing For Mass Appeal, Sir

We would be in a far different political reality. In fact, it is exactly the most dedicated long term activists who are the worst at realizing what will appeal beyond those already in wholehearted agreement with them. They are the last people you want handling the marketing end....

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

32. Again, I agree,

...but there is something to be said for someone who is on the front lines being teargassed as opposed to someone like myself who is typing on a forum from the safety of my home.

[Hassler]

27. +1000

[c-rational]

33. Disbanding the police is what was done in Camden, NJ in 2013 with great success. See the

following post https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016257880

[Dorian Gray]

34. We should have a reform or Re Form movement....

[ck4829]

35. Such as...?

[SheltieLover]

36. Demilitarizing

[albacore]

39. But...but...but... EVERY police force needs a few of these...

[pecosbob]

38. Some would say it plays into the hands of our opponents...IOW right wing talking points

Pacification and de-militarization is better.

Edit* You know what...screw that. Call it Monday Night Rehabilitation for Rambos.

[markpkessinger]

47. +1 n/t

[Liberal In Texas]

40. R-R-R

Remove the bad cops
Restructure the department
Regulate with civilian and independent commissions.

And demilitarize.

[pecosbob]

41. We suck at marketing...let's put the Lincoln Project never-Trumpers on it...

In any case, I believe we will have to murder them all after the election...they're far too effective.

[SoonerPride]

45. If sloganeering is your focus then you are missing the whole point

And you are part of the problem.

Really.

[markpkessinger]

46. It is not about "sloganeering" . . .

. . . it's about the fact that translating these protests -- which I support 100% -- into real, political action requires that we be able to articulate what we are after in a way that doesn't immediately put off potential allies. I've been around long enough to know how bad framing/messaging can doom the most worthy and honorable goal.

But, right -- I'm "part of the problem." Says you, who knows absolutely nothing about me.