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HBO Max has pulled "Gone with the Wind" until it can return with "historical context" (Original Post) Demovictory9 Jun 2020 OP
Wow!!!! secondwind Jun 2020 #1
Who hasn't been repelled by its portrayal of black people? Absolutely demoralizing, disgusting. n/t Judi Lynn Jun 2020 #2
And it's not as if it were written at the time of the Civil War. csziggy Jun 2020 #6
Another "classic" ibegurpard Jun 2020 #3
Really It's a Wonderful Life? KS Toronado Jun 2020 #10
They should let Ice Cube and Ice T do a Mystery Science Theater 3000 style dialogue Jamastiene Jun 2020 #4
That is brilliant PJMcK Jun 2020 #15
IMO, A Grotesquely Overrated Movie ProfessorGAC Jun 2020 #5
Yeah, they had painted canvas for Ilsa Jun 2020 #16
Yes, Wizard of Oz came out the same year Maeve Jun 2020 #21
Indeed ProfessorGAC Jun 2020 #22
You don't have to! Maeve Jun 2020 #23
This argument could apply to thousands of films Auggie Jun 2020 #7
Woot! So funny, but my Mom (b.1924) thought the book GWTW was awful & "not literature"... Hekate Jun 2020 #8
The best thing about GWTW is the Carol Burnett skit spoofing it ms liberty Jun 2020 #9
"Went with the Wind"! obamanut2012 Jun 2020 #13
All of the Carol Burnett Show skits are on the interwebz and are still just as funny today ms liberty Jun 2020 #19
Growing up that movie was played on tv at least twice a year for years. The only movie I have Solomon Jun 2020 #11
I get HBO Max with my cell provider.But I have a ROKU and if it wasn't free I would cancel it Demsrule86 Jun 2020 #12
Token gestures Johnny2X2X Jun 2020 #14
Gone With The Wind was a four hour soap opera Cyrano Jun 2020 #17
Soap operas were already a thing when GWTW was released... JHB Jun 2020 #18
I really never saw why that movie was held in such regard Hawaii Hiker Jun 2020 #20
Well fiddle-dee-dee!!! anamnua Jun 2020 #24

csziggy

(34,131 posts)
6. And it's not as if it were written at the time of the Civil War.
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 05:53 AM
Jun 2020

Both book and the movie were written and produced at the time the KKK was fading but the sentiment was still the same.

Margaret Mitchell was from families that had been slave owners and:

Margaret learned the gritty details of specific battles from these visits with aging Confederate soldiers. But she didn't learn that the South had actually lost the war until she was 10 years of age: "I heard everything in the world except that the Confederates lost the war. When I was ten years old, it was a violent shock to learn that General Lee had been defeated. I didn't believe it when I first heard it and I was indignant. I still find it hard to believe, so strong are childhood impressions."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mitchell#Girlhood_on_Jackson_Hill


Mitchell read the books of Thomas Dixon, Jr., and in 1916, when the silent film, The Birth of a Nation, was showing in Atlanta, she dramatized Dixon's The Traitor: A Story of the Fall of the Invisible Empire (1907).[49][50][51][52] As both playwright and actress, she took the role of Steve Hoyle.[43]:14–15 For the production, she made a Ku Klux Klan costume from a white crepe dress and wore a boy's wig.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mitchell#School_life


(Dixon wrote the book The Birth of a Nation and got it made into the movie of the same name - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Dixon_Jr.#Dixon_as_novelist)

As for the movie:
Gone with the Wind has been criticized as having perpetuated Civil War myths and black stereotypes.[96] David Reynolds wrote that "The white women are elegant, their menfolk noble or at least dashing. And, in the background, the black slaves are mostly dutiful and content, clearly incapable of an independent existence." Reynolds likened Gone with the Wind to The Birth of a Nation and other re-imaginings of the South during the era of segregation, in which white Southerners are portrayed as defending traditional values, and the issue of slavery is largely ignored.[60] The film has been described as a "regression" that promotes both the myth of the black rapist and the honorable and defensive role of the Ku Klux Klan during Reconstruction,[97] and as a "social propaganda" film offering a "white supremacist" view of the past.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gone_with_the_Wind_(film)#Racial_criticism


I've only seen the movie all the way through once, when my parents took us to a showing at the local drive in theater. Truthfully, I may not have stayed awake for the whole thing. I've caught pieces of it when it was shown on TV and immensely enjoyed satires of it such as the Carol Burnett scene with the drapes.

The themes of racism, glorification of the "Southern Way of Life" before the Civil War, and the horrendous portrayal of blacks always put me off - and the ridiculous way women were portrayed, did too.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
3. Another "classic"
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 04:19 AM
Jun 2020

That i watched with a black acquaintance and was utterly embarrassed by depictions of African Americans i hadnt noticed previously was "Its a Wonderful Life."
You just can't unsee things once you've noticed them.

KS Toronado

(17,147 posts)
10. Really It's a Wonderful Life?
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 06:45 AM
Jun 2020

I don't remember any embarrassing depictions of African Americans in the movie. I saw "Annie" as insightful & friendly.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
4. They should let Ice Cube and Ice T do a Mystery Science Theater 3000 style dialogue
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 04:51 AM
Jun 2020

while the movie plays and put that up. I'd watch it then.

PJMcK

(21,995 posts)
15. That is brilliant
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 08:31 AM
Jun 2020

I hate "Gone With The Wind" and always have. It's bloated, bigoted and the characters' choices are often obviously stupid. It's also ridiculously long clocking in at just under 4 hours.

But your idea is genius! It would be funny as hell!

More importantly, it would take down this stupid movie once and for all.

Having said that, there are some brilliant technical/artistic elements in the film including Max Steiner's score and Ernst Haller cinematography.

ProfessorGAC

(64,852 posts)
5. IMO, A Grotesquely Overrated Movie
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 05:02 AM
Jun 2020

Acting is generally awful, the romanticizing of slave owning culture is pathetic, the script is stiff.
The only cinematic quality is the cinematography which has been long since surpassed.
In fact, the cinematography was surpassed the same year GWTW was released. So, it wasn't even the best looking movie that year!
Good riddance!

Ilsa

(61,690 posts)
16. Yeah, they had painted canvas for
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 08:32 AM
Jun 2020

portion of the Twelve Oaks plantation and other scenes.

I hope TCM does the same as HBO.

ProfessorGAC

(64,852 posts)
22. Indeed
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 01:55 PM
Jun 2020

Better cinematography & the background paintings had better depth.
Full disclosure: I don't like either movie.

Maeve

(42,271 posts)
23. You don't have to!
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 01:59 PM
Jun 2020

Both had some great work (the burning of Atlanta in GWTW and Dorothy's tornado, for examples) but both played to simplistic emotions---must have been products of their time.
At different times in my life, I have enjoyed them both.

Hekate

(90,556 posts)
8. Woot! So funny, but my Mom (b.1924) thought the book GWTW was awful & "not literature"...
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 06:31 AM
Jun 2020

Yet I had a friend (b. 1938 -- she was a decade older than me) who was absolutely gaga over that movie & watched it every damn time it came on TV -- as a consequence I watched it with her at a little ladies' get-together she had at her apartment, just to see if I had missed something the one time I had seen it before.

Turns out I still a feminist and an anti-racist, and failed to appreciate the gorgeous plantations and dresses, as well as the hot romances of the heroine. Ew.

GWTW needs to be packaged with a whole lotta 'splaining.

ms liberty

(8,558 posts)
9. The best thing about GWTW is the Carol Burnett skit spoofing it
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 06:41 AM
Jun 2020

Well, the costume design was pretty good in the movie, I will give it that.

obamanut2012

(26,046 posts)
13. "Went with the Wind"!
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 08:30 AM
Jun 2020

I was a kid when that first aired, and roared with laughter, literally rolled around the floor.

ms liberty

(8,558 posts)
19. All of the Carol Burnett Show skits are on the interwebz and are still just as funny today
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 09:10 AM
Jun 2020

I watch a them once in a while. The older I get the more I'm convinced Tim Conway is a Comedy God.

Solomon

(12,310 posts)
11. Growing up that movie was played on tv at least twice a year for years. The only movie I have
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 08:07 AM
Jun 2020

seen as many times as GWTW is the Ten Commandments.

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
12. I get HBO Max with my cell provider.But I have a ROKU and if it wasn't free I would cancel it
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 08:28 AM
Jun 2020

because they have not made it available for ROKU users...millions of people use ROKU so I don't know what HBO is thinking and many are cancelling their subscriptions. I have to either mirror or hook up cables...very aggravating...not worth the trouble except it is free.

Johnny2X2X

(18,969 posts)
14. Token gestures
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 08:31 AM
Jun 2020

Sure, it's a horribly racist movie, but pulling it does nothing to help the situation.

Massive changes are needed to the American system of justice, policing, and community investment. I appreciate token gestures, but this a massive change to the American way of life is needed.

Cyrano

(15,027 posts)
17. Gone With The Wind was a four hour soap opera
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 08:40 AM
Jun 2020

before TV invented soap operas.

Clark Gable and Vivian Leigh were were well known movie stars, and that, together with the vast sums poured into promoting the film, made it "a classic."

Today, it would be a four hour grade-B film no matter who was in it or how much was spent promoting it.

That's just my opinion, so let's hear the push back.

JHB

(37,154 posts)
18. Soap operas were already a thing when GWTW was released...
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 09:03 AM
Jun 2020

...it's just that they were on the radio back then. Television existed, but was still very early in development, so the only people who had the expensive sets were the "must have the latest gadget" types.

Which is just a bit of tech pedantry on my part. Your main point fully holds.

Hawaii Hiker

(3,165 posts)
20. I really never saw why that movie was held in such regard
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 09:11 AM
Jun 2020

Other than it was a big budget, lengthy film..

I mean, the overacting was ghastly.....And the story line is absurd...

anamnua

(1,103 posts)
24. Well fiddle-dee-dee!!!
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 02:01 PM
Jun 2020

Last edited Sun Jun 14, 2020, 09:14 PM - Edit history (1)

My thoughts on GWTW:
As a historical/social treatise it was offensive garbage.
As a deconstruction of the relationship between two highly dysfunctional characters it was excellent.

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