Prospects for gun control in this current environment

[Ex Lurker]

On the one hand, a Democratic wave nationally and in the states means finally a chance for substantive change

On the other hand, guns are flying off the shelves into the hands of whites who see this movement as a threat, and they will be lobbying like minded politicians to stall any reforms by any means necessary.

On the third hand, how would you actually enforce such laws in an era of scaled back/restricted policing? Especially with police forces that may be hostile to progressive ideals and reluctant to put much effort into enforcing them. What do we do about massive noncompliance by segments of the public and resistance bordering on mutiny by law enforcement? See: second amendment sanctuaries in some mostly rural counties.

Just some things I have been thinking about. I wonder what others think.

[Aristus]

1. Well, since evidently, private citizens are allowed to own even rocket launchers,

the knee-jerk response is that we need to give cops bigger and deadlier weapons in order to stay ahead of the gun-nuts.

No one will entertain the idea that private citizens having access to military weaponry is crashingly idiotic, and that the gun lobby is where we need to start.

[hack89]

3. You sure about that?

I have a hard time imagining that it would be easy or cheap.

[Hoyt]

7. Not with gunners who can't imagine life without a load of guns, including semiauto AR-15s.

Even though gunners make up less than a third of population, we have to coddle them.

[hack89]

9. So explain to me how I can buy a rocket launcher (with a rocket)

Last edited Wed Jun 10, 2020, 05:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Is it something that a regular person can do or is it reserved for the rich collectors?

[Kaleva]

26. You can find them on E-Bay

https://picclick.com/Vintage-M72A2-LAW-Tube-133432457188.html

[hack89]

28. That is just a useless piece of fiberglass and metal

because a LAW is a single use rocket - it can't be reloaded and you can't buy the rockets.

"This item is an empty tube and is not classified as an explosive device since it contains no incendiary or explosive material."

Sorry for the confusion - the post I originally replied to said "No one will entertain the idea that private citizens having access to military weaponry is crashingly idiotic." which I took to mean private citizens have access to rocket launchers with actual rockets loaded. Because how can an empty launcher be considered a threat?

[Kaleva]

34. You said "rocket launcher" . Examples of which can be bought on EBay.

And without the rocket, it can't do much. Just like a gun without ammo.

To acquire a armed rocket launcher, one can be built at home following instructions that are available on the internet. I wouldn't advise doing such a thing though as the penalty is quite stiff if you are caught in possession of an illegal destructive device..

[jmg257]

2. Federal gun laws - FFL dealers will have to comply.

So new owners would suffer.
With 3-4 million new checks each month in March & April, doubt its only “whites”, as this was before the Protests
And due to covid.

I can see 2nd amendment Protests if new laws are attempted.

As for the 400million+ already in private hands? Ah well.

[hack89]

4. As long as we want a Democratic Senate there will be no major gun control

the only way we can win and hold the Senate is to elect Dems in red/purple states that are pro-gun.

Remember that it was Senate Dems that killed the AWB post Sandy Hook as Harry Reid tried to defend his majority.

[Hoyt]

8. Why do gunners always come up with that argument? Gunners are only 30+% of population, and those

who freak out at the loss of their AR15s, even less. Toters are less than 10% of population.

[hack89]

10. Because Wyoming and California have the same number of Senators

which means total numbers mean nothing. Those two senators from Wyoming representing 600,000 people cancel out the votes of the two senators representing 38 million people.

Basic math. Basic civics. Two things gun control advocates do poorly at.

[Ace Rothstein]

12. And gun owners vote like it is their job.

[hack89]

13. This gun owner doesn't

I chose to live in a blue state with strict gun control. All my elective officials are pro-gun control.

I learned over time that the Democratic party will not take my guns away. I have nothing to fear so I can vote based on progressive issues that are important to me.

[sarisataka]

16. Ironically in the 2016 election

It was DUs own Gun Control Reform Activism group hosts who advised to vote for several Republicans. One I recall specifically was that gun control supporters should vote for the Republican opponent of Senator Duckworth. "Vote issue over party" was the oft repeated mantra.

In 2014 gun control supporters celebrated Sen Mark Pryor's loss when he did not support an AWB bill. It was said "we didn't need that type of Democrat", so Tom Cotton took that seat. This year he is running for re-election unopposed by any Democratic candidate.

It has been said these, and other votes against Democrats, are "worth it" to support gun control.

On the other side, I have seen DU "gun nuts" criticize some gun control proposals but have never seen any lobbying for Republicans, only support for Democrats regardless of the candidate's gun control stance.

[SQUEE]

33. So, let me get this right.

30% of the population does not matter?

Your cute home grown slang is evershifting, so I am at a loss what a toter is to you now.

You need to realize you are the minority in much of America, and that includes Georgia.

[Hoyt]

36. Gunz don't matter, SQUEE. Where you been?

[ansible]

5. Pushing for more gun control when there's riots all over the country sure sounds like a winning idea

[gratuitous]

6. Or maybe call it firearm regulation?

Let's use the holy language of the Constitution.

[hack89]

11. A meaningless distinction. nt

[gratuitous]

21. Okay

Then I'll continue to call it "regulation" since the distinction is meaningless.

[hack89]

22. You can call it what you want. I have no problem with it

except you might want to research the common meaning of "regulated" in 1780. You may find that the founding fathers may not be in sync with you.

[NutmegYankee]

14. I'm going to state something very unpopular.

With the white nationalist crowd growing more and more paranoid as America moves to a Majority Minority country, it might be prudent for minorities and the left in general to have a means to defend themselves against some deranged attacker. I'm not saying concealed carry or arsenals, but a shotgun for home defense might be wise. Remember that white nationalists have infiltrated police forces and they might just "look the other way" or participate. Who wants to be the Tutsi in another Rwanda?

[Hoyt]

37. Gunners always find a way to promote more gunz.

[0rganism]

15. i think we'd want to let it stand as-is for the time being

yeah, it's problematic, but it's not the highest priority
i don't know if it even makes top-tier right now
maybe save it for when we can start arguing over taxes and interstate highway budgets again

[sarisataka]

17. Why do you believe

"guns are flying off the shelves into the hands of whites"? Do you have any evidence of this?

The few times I have recently visited a store that sells guns, I noticed non-whites were over represented at the counter. Anecdotal to be sure but it seems logical since minority owned businesses and neighborhoods have suffered the most from recent unrest that minorities might be more inclined to purchase guns now.

[DVRacer]

18. Wanna win in a landslide?

Have Nancy Pelosi reintroduce the hearing protection act and remove suppressor’s from the NFA. It would put us in-line with most of Europe as silencers/suppressors only reduce sound levels to that of a jackhammer 130db. You could seriously swing the majority of libertarians who really want it.
The Hollywood version is not reality when it comes to them. Just a thought

[Amishman]

19. depends on what we try to pass

background checks should still be plenty popular, if not more popular.

Assault weapons bans should also not be impacted, normal people aren't buying AR-15s for self defense.

Magazine capacity limits gets tricky, lots of people buying semi automatic pistols and those often hold more than 10 rounds. Make the limit 20 bullets and you probably have a good chance still.

banning semi automatics completely? that was never overly viable and much less so now.

[jmg257]

20. ARs would likely remain as popular as ever if possible,

People are definitely buying them the last few
Months.

tactical shotguns should get a pass and are also a great choice. Stupid to limit their capacity due to AW “features” like a handgrip.

[Amishman]

24. and hard to define capacity for a shotgun

I have an old Ithaca 37 that was my grandfather's (old pump shotgun)

I dusted it off a while ago for a visit to my gun nut brother-in-law. He had these weird short little shells and I think we were able to load 9 instead of the usual 5.

[Paladin]

25. Yeah the capacity of those double-barrel guns is a real puzzlement. (nt)

[jmg257]

29. Ha that's great! My semi beretta is limited (by law) to 5.

You have to buy an mag extension tube to get to 7.

Goofy.

[liskddksil]

23. Universal Background checks, red-flag laws, high-capacity magazine and assault weapons

bans should be part of the 1st 100 days agenda. These measures all have broad support even in places like Texas. Democrats need to lead on this issue.

[hack89]

30. AWBs do not have that kind of support

Dems running for Senate seats in red/purple states will not support it.

[liskddksil]

31. Yes, they do. I can show you polls of Texas where even mandatory buybacks,

which goes even further than a sales-ban, holds majority support.

[hack89]

32. Just remember who killed the AWB post Sandy Hook

It was Harry Reid trying to protect his Democratic majority in the Senate.

If we are going to win the senate in 2020 that means we have to win in places like Georgia, Iowa, Montana, Texas, Maine, North Carolina and Arizona.

You know none of those democratic candidates will support an AWB. I would even bet money that some will run in support of the 2A and promise there will be no AWB.

[Hoyt]

38. You know as well as I do that the vast majority of gunners nowadays vote GOPer.

[hack89]

39. Yet there are pro-gun Democrats that win races in red states

you don't need all the gunners to vote Dem but you will need some with you want a Democratic Senate. You do want a Democratic Senate, don't you?

[liskddksil]

40. Its not 2013 anymore nt

[hack89]

41. So all those red states are now embracing gun control?

Got some polling data to back that up?

[liskddksil]

43. Page 18

https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/5afb1cfc7a94cd64f15555c9742c40f3/ut-tt-2019-11-summary-tues.pdf?

[hack89]

44. One state with weak support

A state where the Republicans are favored to retain control.

What about the rest. I argue that support for gun control has oscillated around 50 % for several decades and there has not been a sea change in support for gun control.

[Caliman73]

27. Much like "defund the police" ...

If we re-prioritize spending toward social programs designed to alleviate problems that lead to violence, there will likely be a significant reduction in firearms deaths. About half the deaths related to firearms are suicide so we need to tackle both proliferation of firearms and the impulse to suicide simultaneously. The vast majority of the remaining half of gun deaths are homicides and are typically in the commission of other crimes related to drugs, gangs, etc... Again, addressing the causes of violence, will reduce the use of firearms in the commission of crimes. We can have policies regarding types of firearms, access, magazine limits, and others but if we do not address what brings people to use firearms for violent purposes, people will find a way to use firearms for violent purposes unless all guns are confiscated and a vast system of control is maintained.

Root cause intervention is effective but requires planning, effort, and systemic change.

[hunter]

42. Gun fetishes are disgusting.

We can treat people who wave their guns around in public the same way we treat people who masturbate in public.

What are they going to do? Shoot us?

Most people in the U.S.A. don't care enough about guns to bother owning one.

Eventually the tide will turn against the gun fetishists and they will have to hide their filthy habit.

The law will follow, not lead.

The second amendment as it is now interpreted is bullshit, just as legal slavery was bullshit, just as treating wives as property was bullshit, just as not allowing women to vote was bullshit, just as a lot of behaviors that were once deemed lawful no longer are.