Stop pulling down monuments

[struggle4progress]

By MARIE ALBIGES
THE VIRGINIAN-PILOT |
JUN 11, 2020 | 4:20 PM

At least three Confederate statues have been taken down by protesters in Virginia since demonstrations began in late May, and with at least one person getting severely injured in the process, Gov. Ralph Northam urged protesters to be safe and let the local governments handle the monuments’ removal instead.

“I know these statues are causing a lot of pain, but pulling them down is not worth risking someone’s life,” Northam said at a press conference in Richmond.

On Wednesday night in Portsmouth, protesters began by throwing paint and tagging graffiti onto the statue honoring the Confederate dead. Gradually, they began beheading the four figures, hitting them with tools and removing a rifle and sword from their arms. One of the figures was pulled down using a tow rope and fell onto Chris Green, who was standing underneath it. Green was taken to the hospital, where he is being treated for life-threatening injuries, according to the Virginia State Police ...

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/virginia/vp-nw-northam-confederate-statues-protests-20200611-vp2beakov5ai7okndnesbchzz4-story.html

[Lisa0825]

1. I saw them working on that statue on live TV, and I was really worried

that someone would get hurt or killed

[struggle4progress]

2. Flatlined twice on way to hospital

Author: 13News Now Staff
Published: 8:44 PM EDT June 10, 2020
Updated: 4:50 PM EDT June 11, 2020

PORTSMOUTH, Va. — The wife of a man who was hit by a Confederate soldier statue said Thursday that doctors put him into a coma as they treated him for his injuries.

Medics took Chris Green to Sentara Norfolk General Hospital Wednesday night. He was at a protest at the Confederate monument in Olde Towne Portsmouth when people starting tearing it apart. At one point in the night, some of the people pulled down one of Confederate soldier statues, which landed on Green ...

Green's wife, Tonieh Brisbane-Green, wasn't with him at the demonstration. She said her husband of 13 years flatlined twice while he was on the way to the hospital. She told 13News Now that they have two children.

Tonieh said she supports people’s right to protest, “but do it in a peaceful manner. There was no need to do all of that especially while there were so many people around that statue knowing that somebody’s going to get hurt” ...

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/portsmouth/protesters-tear-down-parts-of-portsmouth-confederate-monument/291-f33c288b-1b40-4561-96a2-24070631250a

[struggle4progress]

3. In a coma

By WVEC news staff
Posted: Thu 11:44 AM, Jun 11, 2020
Updated: Thu 12:02 PM, Jun 11, 2020

... Portsmouth City Council held an emergency meeting earlier in the day on Wednesday and decided on a July 28 hearing to decide on the monument's fate, but that was too far into the future for the demonstrators who gathered Wednesday night.

The monument has sat near the intersection of Court Street and High Street in Olde Towne since it was built in the late 1800s ...

https://www.whsv.com/content/news/Protester-left-in-a-coma-from-falling-debris-of-Confederate-monument-in-Virginia-571188011.html

[RiverbendsJoe]

4. First Justice, Then Peace.

Until y’all figure out how to stop killing us, I’ll let y’all worry about the monuments.

[struggle4progress]

6. Fsck the monuments: I worry about people like Chris Green

[NutmegYankee]

11. The governor has a valid point.

Pulling down heavy statues is dangerous. Wait for the cranes. They are coming.

[RiverbendsJoe]

22. Well, his blackface ass had better get a move on.

My black Virginia roots go back at least to 1726, and I’m pretty sure the “wait for the cranes” meme isn’t gonna cut it. If he doesn’t want The People to do it for him, he’d better task the Virginia National Guard.

[Tipperary]

29. Uh huh.

Welcome to du.

[struggle4progress]

32. Chris Green has brain damage and must resort to public appeal for his medical bills

I'd love to see the monuments to those traitors come down

And I'd very much prefer not to smash in folks' heads to get that done, whether purposely or by stupid accident

[struggle4progress]

5. Fighting for his life

By ROBYN SIDERSKY
THE VIRGINIAN-PILOT |
JUN 11, 2020 | 12:34 PM

... When the statue came down, Green was under it. He remains hospitalized with life-threatening injuries, Sgt. Michelle Anaya, spokeswoman for Virginia State Police, said Thursday morning. Portsmouth Police asked state police to investigate the man’s injuries. Whether any charges are filed from the incident would be determined by the commonwealth’s attorney, Anaya said.

Green lost consciousness after his head was cut open. Protesters first took a knee and then began to disperse as Green was taken to the hospital ...

“I apologized on our behalf, and she (Green’s sister) said he doesn’t want anyone upset with us,” Hines said. “His family is not upset, they are hurting.”

He didn’t give specifics on Green’s condition but said he is responding to some of the neurological tests, which is a good sign. However, he is “not quite out of the woods” ...

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/vp-nw-man-injured-20200611-3mp5z4smffanni7qr4dxkpja34-story.html

[Hermit-The-Prog]

20. Thanks for these follow-ups!

[Sherman A1]

7. Agreed

It is in many cases not safe for a crowd of folks to be doing this. That said, it will likely continue until removal plans are announced for each of these "charming" remembrances.

They need to be gone yesterday and they need to be smelted down.

[ProfessorGAC]

12. Agreeing To Your Agreement

Bronze cast statues likely weigh 400# or more.
Stone statues of the same size are probably 3x that.
Geez, a cemetery headstone weighs a couple hundred pounds.
Unless someone is experienced in rigging, and have all the right gear, somebody or somebodies, could get killed.

[Progressive Jones]

8. Every visible sign of the Confederacy needs to be removed from US soil. nt

[cwydro]

14. Including former presidents who were slave owners?

Someone else pointed this out in the thread, though I'd not heard of this yet.

[sarisataka]

16. Would that include

Closing Gettysburg National Park and plowing cemeteries under?

[Tipperary]

30. I wonder if Germany should remove the concentration camp monuments?

Hmm.

[totodeinhere]

9. Now some people are calling for removal of statutes of George Washington

and Thomas Jefferson because both were slave owners. Myself, I think that if we want to win the election in November we better stay away from going that far right now. After we win the election, then we can talk.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/08/18/cnns_angela_rye_washington_jefferson_statues_need_to_come_down.html

[The Magistrate]

10. Some People Just Have No Sense, Sir

It sometimes seem as if some on the left want to lose mass support, haven't the least desire to actually take and wield power.

[JonLP24]

15. I think Angela Rye has a right to her opinion

Not everything is about winning or losing elections. The best social studies teacher I ever had didn't whitewash history and I thank her so much for that education.

[The Magistrate]

17. Everybody Has A Right To Be An Idiot, Sir

It would be nice if fewer people exercised that right, and much to the benefit of the people and the country if fewer on the left exercised it.


"We would have had socialism long since if not for the Socialists."

[JonLP24]

18. I think Angela Rye is coming with a different perspective

It doesn't make her an idiot to acknowledge some of the founding fathers were slave owners. It makes her more intelligent than most social studies teachers I had.

I have no idea what socialism has to do with the topic or the left bashing In general.

[The Magistrate]

19. Yes, Dear, I Spend All My Time Bashing the Left....

The idea that the fact Washington and Jefferson owned slaves is something new no one has ever noticed before is ignorant idiocy on a par with that displayed by the cretins who vote for Trump. It is general knowledge and has been general knowledge literally for centuries. Put bluntly, I do not believe your implied claim it was not something you learned at school.

For the rest, I will explain this v-e-r-y slowly....

Right now, people are out in the street for a left cause. Those demonstrations enjoy mass support, something like three out of four people agree with the demonstrators and the object of policing the police. This is a genuine moment, a sea-change, which has the potential to change what side of the political spectrum a good many people feel aligned with. It may well carry over to other things, more beneficial social and economic policies, once many have gotten over the habit of knee-jerk rejection of leftist programs. The last thing we need is 'ultra' grandstanding of a sort guaranteed to remind people of just what they don't like about the left in national politics. Get a good crowd out tearing down a statue of George Washington, and you can just kiss the whole kit and kaboodle good-bye. It is beyond stupid, it is self-destructive to the point that any sound Leninist would consider people agitating for that to be traitors in fascist pay, and as matter of fact, such people are serving as a left auxiliary of the christo-fascist right, and without even the dignity of getting a money price for their services.

The quote is from Shaw, speaking as a Fabian Society writer a century or so ago, which gives you some idea of what a longstanding problem it is, this apparent determination of many leftists to alienate mass support by quirkiness and crankiness and deliberate offense to things the great bulk of the people hold dear. As is said nowadays, it is why we cannot have good things, like national health insurance, proper regulation of credit, labor unions with power in the workplace, and a whole host of other items, including decent police, that people on the left generally do want, and that most people would enjoy having, if only they could be enacted into law by a left government.

[JonLP24]

21. Actually they did whitewash history in my grade schools

The best social studies teacher I ever had was at Gililland Middle School (Tempe, AZ) and she didn't white wash history. To tell you the truth I learned more history from Wikipedia than I ever did in elementary, middle school, junior high school, or high school.

One thing I don't do is waste my time by lying.

Democrats should be lucky the left has nowhere else to go because the Republicans are so awful. I would focus on their idiocy.

[Blue_true]

26. So we rewrite the history books to give accurate measure to ALL aspects

of Washington and Jefferson, and how their personal choices conflicted with the lofty ideas they wrote about and fought for. But that is far different from trying to erase them from history due to their one worst act of hyprocracy. If we use that standard, we just might as well erase every single President that we have had, because each had at least one major flaw. The Presidency is full of outright virulent racists, womanizers and mysogonists. The Presidency is full of people that lied to the American public, to the public's detriment. All of those faults are considered poison today, so using your logic, we should erase Adams, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Bill Clinton. That viewpoint is neophyte and wishful nonsense and will do nothing but set up back in the march for a more equitable and just America.

[Tipperary]

28. Wish I could rec this post.

[Blue_true]

23. So, you are philosophically ok with four more years of Trump?

Like it or not, some people that are with us in our effort to defeat Trump won't be if they believe that we are intent on ripping away all remembrances of that which we don't like.

George Washington was a slave owner , but he is also one of the key founders of our country. IMO, we should not render judgement on him in modern times for an act that was commonplace in his day. Same with Jefferson, a noted white supremacist, slave owner and breeder to some of his female slaves. Warts and all, both men are monumental figures in our collective history. We should add historical information on the type of people they were, but we certainly should not attempt to erase them from our history.

My position on confederate monuments? Any that were put up as a heartfelt way to honor local or state men that fought for the confederacy and for NO OTHER reason, should stay where they are. All monuments that were erected as an act of white resentment to needed change should be taken down. I believe the last category will cover as much as 70-80% of the status that exist today. I really don't care what happens to them, as long as they are not on public land or can be seen by a person dutifully going about his or her business on public land, including roads and sidewalks. If confederacy fans want to build a confederate park and pay for the private roads to that park's entrance, they can knock themselves out as far as I am concerned, just no public money can be used outside of removing the statues from public land.

[JonLP24]

25. My point is

I think Angela Rye has a point and I wouldn't lose any sleep over a statue removal. Not everything is about winning or losing elections. Sometimes things are about right or wrong. I would probably be scared to move past confederate monuments on my own but from Angela Rye's perspective it doesn't scare me.

[Blue_true]

27. Tell the German Jewish people and communists that Hitler winning election

was inconsequential because there was no clear right in preventing him from gaining power.

Donald Trump is a walking collage of evil, if you can't see the importance above all else of ending his leadership of this country, then I just don't know what else I can say to you. Fortunately there are people that are a lot wiser than Angela Rye who are positioning themselves on the right side of history.

[Polybius]

31. No we can't talk

Statues of Washington and Jefferson must forever stay up. We can not judge them in 2020 by something they did over 200 years ago.

[totodeinhere]

35. I am not advocating removing the statutes of our founding fathers. But I am all for having a

conversation about the topic, but I think it would be better to have that conversation after the election when hopefully we will be in a position to do something about it.

[cwydro]

13. I saw a funny tweet by someone, saying how impressed he was how many people knew what these statues

stood for, where they were located, and who they were.

The tweeter said "as someone who slept through history class" lol.

[zak247]

24. The problem

Last edited Thu Jun 11, 2020, 11:42 PM - Edit history (1)

With the very militant and anxious folks is that their methodology, however noble it is blatantly wrong.
Why

Because the basis of real transformation is in the heart, not the hard head.

Be patient on symbolic things and of course demand action on things that directly affect people.

So the dangerousness of violently pulling down a statue that risks lives is clear when a man's life has been severely affected by just such an act.


Whoever doesn't understand that to me has a problem with their heart and their head!

[struggle4progress]

33. I have absolutely nothing against disciplined mass action. But I detest mobs

[zak247]

34. Indeed, disciplined is the key