Legal question for our legal eagle types:

[gopiscrap]

trump is having a rally in 19,000 seat arena in Tulsa OK next Friday he is requiring those attending to sign a waiver saying they won't sue him or the republican party if they contact corona virus as a result of attendance at that rally. Does this actually absolve them of civil liability?

[BComplex]

1. I'd like to know that, too. Plus, can they still sue the venue? The City?

How much of this is covered?

But then again, most trump supporters are so stupid, they'd gladly give their lives to be in his presence and cheer him on. Therefore, none of them would likely sue anyway.

Republicans are very sensitive to peer pressure, and their lawsuits would not be acceptable.

[tblue37]

2. The disclaimer explicitly includes the venue, the city, the party, etc. nt

[Talitha]

8. "... they'd gladly give their lives..."

Fingers crossed.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Waivers like that usually aren't worth paper they're written on,

but the problem with suing, even if they hadn't signed a waiver, is that the plaintiff would have to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that they got the virus at the event and not somewhere else. This would be very difficult in a community where the virus is already generally present. Basically, they'd have to show that they'd been completely isolated for a couple of weeks before attending the event and that there was no other possible way they could have contracted it except at the event. But I think it's pretty funny that, after all the bluster about how the virus is either a hoax or it's pretty much gone, now they want a waiver.

[Eliot Rosewater]

4. Not a lawyer but what if you were being invited to a

tractor pull event and they let you sit in front of the tractor so that when the tractor pull started, you were crushed and killed.

(I dont know enough about the event to describe this)

Or lets say you buy a ticket to a NASCAR race and the new feature they have to attract fans is you can put your fold up chair right on the race track, maybe a car at 200 mph hits you, maybe it doesnt, depends on where you put your chair and I guess how fast YOU are.

They have you sign a waiver saying you cant sue when a car hits you, or the tractor crushes you.

Would any court uphold those waivers? I am hoping not, so maybe similar here but I dont know.

(Oh and as the other poster notes, you would have to prove you got the virus at this event and nowhere else)

[Totally Tunsie]

12. Even more commonplace is the purchasing of a ski lift ticket.

On the reverse side of every ticket is a health/accident disclaimer stating you agree to not sue if you get injured. It's challenged all the time, and many of those challenges have resulted in hefty payouts. I'd bet one major factor is how good your attorney is.

[Eliot Rosewater]

13. The point of my post is nothing you sign can relieve someone else or company of negligence

And negligence is a legal term and conditions have to be bet before they are guilty of that.

These rallies SCREAM negligence.

[SeattleVet]

5. They may sign a waiver, but their friends and family certainly didn't.

If anyone gets infected by them when they return from this Petri dish rally, they could probably sue!

[royable]

6. Eeeeeeeeeexcellent point! n/t

[SheltieLover]

10. This!👆

Coworkers too!

[StarfishSaver]

7. Lawyer's answer: it depends

This kind of waiver is commonly known as an "exculpatory contract" and are unenforceable in many states. Even where they're enforceable, they usually don't apply where the venue or host engages in reckless or intentional behavior.

For example, if the campaign does not make any effort to prevent the crowd from spreading the disease, e.g., it doesn't set up safe social distancing or, in keeping with their general approach, encouraged people to congregate and not to wear masks, I think the exculpatory clause would be unenforceable.

But as someone else said, it would be difficult to prove causation.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. I wonder if they will actively discourage people from wearing masks,

which wouldn't surprise me at all, and, as you said, could poke some big holes in their waiver. But causation would still be a significant obstacle.

The other thing that occurred to me is that the language of the waiver could actually discourage some of the less fanatical members of the cult from going to the rally. If I was asked to sign a document that basically said, if you go to this event you could catch a serious and potentially-fatal disease, and if you do catch it we aren't responsible, I might decide to skip it altogether. And they're also admitting the virus is a thing and not a hoax.

[StarfishSaver]

11. Being asked to sign a waiver sure would give me second thoughts

But then, I'm sane, a quality not overly-represented among people considering attending a Trump rally.

[StarfishSaver]

14. ...

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

15. I have been followig Popehat for a while

Can mentally impaired idiots grant a valid waiver

Link to tweet

[former9thward]

16. There is absolutely no way anyone can prove they got Covid anywhere.

Except maybe if they stayed in their home 24/7 and someone came into the home. Other than that if you step outside of your home you could have gotten it anywhere.

[TreadSoftly]

17. interesting discussion-could venues get "assumed risk"?

Wondering if the venue could declare "assumed risk" for attendance, if their state passes some laws.

background:

I once heard that "assumed risk" saved the US ski industry -- when you pay to ski, you acknowledge that skiing is a risky sport. Similar law I understand saved horse industry in TN & there are required signs -- from here: [link:https://www.midsouthhorsereview.com/news.php?id=4687|]

The Equine Activities Act also requires a “warning” sign. Equine professionals (defined as a person who, for compensation, rents equipment or tack to a participant, or instructs them or rents to them an equine (horse, pony, mule, donkey, or hinny) for the purpose of riding, driving, or being a passenger upon the equine) must post and maintain a “warning” sign in a clearly visible location on or near the stable, arena, or corral where they conduct equine activities (as defined by the Act in Tenn. Code Ann. §44-20-102(3)) if they own, manage, or control those areas. The sign must contain the following in black letters that are a minimum of one inch high:

WARNING

Under Tennessee Law, an equine professional is not liable for an injury to or the death of a participant in equine activities resulting from the inherent risks of equine activities, pursuant to Tennessee Code Annotated, title 44, chapter 20.

Wiki article on assumed risk here: [link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assumption_of_risk|]