Countering "All Lives Matter." This worked on one relative.

[MineralMan]

In a discussion with a relative who is a Republican, he said, "All Lives Matter, Not just black lives." It's a common theme that people use to argue against the "Black Lives Matter" slogan.

I told him, and I paraphrase, "Yes, all lives do matter, but the lives of black people and other minorities have historically not mattered as much as white people's lives. As white people, we take it for granted that we will not be choked to death by a police officer. Black people, in particular, cannot take that for granted, because many black lives have been taken in that way by the police. So, when they say 'Black Lives Matter,' try to think of it as 'Black Lives Matter, Too" or 'Black Lives Matter as Much as White Lives and Your Life Matter.' That's what it means, and that has not been the case in the past and even today. It should be. So, that's why that slogan is being used."

My relative thought about that for a minute, and then agreed with me. Maybe that explanation can help others explain those words.

[MaryMagdaline]

1. That's a good approach

[Moostache]

2. That is a good approach...I found this one effective too...

Man A: "That house Matters!!!"

Man B: "ALL houses Matter!"

Man A: "Of course all houses matter, but THAT house is on fire...and so too will yours be soon, if you don't help put this out NOW!"

----------------------

Sometimes people need a visual of how an abstract is really a threat to all to admit they understand. The "All lives matter" folks are less virulent than the "Blue Lives Matter" people in my experience...those folks are dangerously deluded....

[Cracklin Charlie]

6. +1

Showing common cause is always helpful.

[LiberalLovinLug]

31. Brilliant

[unblock]

3. that used to be my approach, though i didn't have as much success as you did.

my attitude has since shifted.

i think of the phrase "black lives matter" as an emergency, distress call. it's saying that black people are being killed by police and generally not valued as much as other lives. but it's an emergency call.

have you ever heard a recording of a 911 call? people are frantic and their sentences are choppy and they're incoherent and they often don't say "please" and they swear a lot.

unless they completely can't understand them, 911 operators do their best to ignore all that and simply get them the help they need.

imagine how horrible it would be if you called 911 and the operator told you "we're not sending help because you didn't say please" or were otherwise not properly respectful?



in short, they're asking for help in a life-of-death matter, and we're quibbling about the politeness of the phrasing of the request. the entire conversation is an exercise in distraction while more black people are dying. what better proof for the need for a movement such as black lives matter?

[Beartracks]

40. 911 Caller: "Help!" Dispatcher:"EVERYone needs help." n/t

[sarisataka]

4. One explanation I heard

A neighbor comes over while you are working on your house and says you have to come with him to take care of George's house.

You reply that you must take care of your house, it is as important as George's.

The neighbor says, "That is true, but George's house is on fire. If we don't help him now, he won't have a house."

Now consider if you said life instead of house...

[world wide wally]

5. If ALL lives matter, then black lives must matter as well.

[KS Toronado]

15. Like how you put that, short, simple & to the point. THANK YOU

Next time I hear all lives matter, I'll be using your reply " If ALL lives matter, then black lives must matter as well."

[Caliman73]

18. They should, but they really don't

By any metric, the most obvious being the greater number of Black people hurt and killed by police; but also many others like the fact that Black people are sentenced for longer for the same crimes as White people. That whole areas of cities and suburbs were, and in some cases still are, "off limits" for purchase by Black people (redlining).

These are just some of the ways that Black people are shown regularly, that their lives matter little or not at all.

You are absolutely correct that ALL means ALL must matter. That is why we have to confront the racism that is ingrained in society, and make meaningful changes.

[uponit7771]

50. +1,

[sarchasm]

7. Someone said it best...

Imagine giving a heartfelt eulogy at your child’s funeral, and someone comes up and grabs the mic and says, “All Children Matter!” THAT... is what it feels like.

[keithbvadu2]

8. Right wingers came up with 'Blue Lives Matter'.

Right wingers came up with 'Blue Lives Matter'.

But ya didn't hear them complain much when the Oregon standoff militia called for their 'patriots' to come kill the police.

Not much criticism from the right wing when Cliven Bundy's sniper was sighting in on LEO badges.

[Traildogbob]

9. When they say all lives matter

Just ask, “then why the hell do you refuse to wear a mask”. Why the hell are you ok locking kids in cages and separating families for life. Probably selling the children. Do theirs lives matter? Oh.......right........ a different shade of life. Jesus was a least half brown, we have no idea what shade god and his sperm were. Maybe transparent, so All colors of the world are seen through him.

[azureblue]

10. "all men are created equal"

While it is true that "All lives matter", that phrase doesn't mean a thing until all lives are equal, and right now, "black lives matter" is how to achieve that. Equality first.

[spinbaby]

14. All lives don't matter until black lives matter. n/t

[Glaisne]

11. Very well said!

[PennyK]

12. That's what I say, too.

i say it's short for 'Black lives matter, TOO.'

[Iggo]

17. "...just as much as everyone else's."

I just tell ‘em we shortened it cause it didn’t fit on the shirt.

[mcar]

13. One of the young women running the protest we attended last week put it this way:

Suppose you are in a pool with 20 other people and one person starts drowning. Should the lifeguards jump in and start helping all 20 people because all lives matter? Of course not, they'd help the person in need.

I've repeated this to a few friends and I swear I saw the light dawn.

[Iggo]

16. This worked for me...

Me: Black lives matter.
Him: All lives matter.
Me: Including black lives?
Him: Yes.
Me: Then why won’t you say it?

[CaptainTruth]

27. That's good, I like that!

[Scruffy1]

19. Good. n/t.

[geardaddy]

20. Good job, MM

I've heard people use that approach by adding ", too" at the end of BLM. I think it puts it into perspective for white folks who get offended about BLM.

[Iggo]

21. It steps on their "if I can't be special, nobody can" sensibilities.

Try to tell them that’s privilege and see what happens. 😂😂😂

[rainin]

22. I like "Jesus says 'Blessed are the poor'. Republicans say "No, Jesus, blessed are ALL people"

Can't take credit for this:

Link to tweet

?s=20

[soldierant]

49. Thank you for this! nt

[rainin]

52. You're welcome!

[debsy]

23. I read this post and it provided a sound justification against using "all lives matter".

Saying, "black lives matter", is about focus, not exclusion.

https://backspace.com/notes/2016/07/law-professors-response-to-black-lives-matter-shirt-complaint.php

It is worth reading.

[Ford_Prefect]

24. I have linguistic problems with the phrase though not with the intent.

I have my own minority story and struggles so the phrasing seems a bit exclusionary.

I am not challenging the urgency of the message nor the reality of the threat. I have been out with friends of color who were challenged in my presence for what seemed rather obvious bias by the other party. I have witnessed the police aggression and outrage 1st hand. I have heard threats whispered behind us in the restaurant. I have no doubts about the outrage and the need to declare. I just wish, sometimes there was another phrase to use if only because my life and those like me matter also and they are under threat also.

No one will likely confront me face to face, or stop my car or grab my kids, wife, or parents. At the same time, there are many of life's ordinary situations in which I will not be treated with respect or given the options of others to whom our culture assigns more privilege. It is unlikely I would receive inbound gunfire although my car and property have been attacked.

My needs for protection pale in comparison to those who are on the street right now or who must face the racist threat every day. Never the less Trump and his minions are trying to erase me and my limited SSI income and the insurance that I can barely pay for.

The difference is that I don't have to watch out for every white guy on the street, or the asshole in the pickup who threatened my friend's children on their bicycles. I have had people photograph me and follow me in my car in traffic because I have a faded "Obamanos!" sticker in my rear window. I have had face-to-face encounters with smirking red-neck assholes in the parking lot over it. I have stared down jerks who insulted people I was talking to while the thought crossed my mind to wonder if the jerk-in-question's next move was pulling a weapon (none so far).

So my wish is a humble one only.

[aggiesal]

25. Anyone who spouts ALL LIVES MATTERS, I see as ...

racists.

This is their attempt to switch the narrative away from BLACK LIVES MATTERS because
they really don't care if black lives matter or not.
They just can't let BLACK LIVES MATTERS control the narrative.

Guess who's winning?

[The Mouth]

26. The analogy I've used with friends and relatives

A group of people are sitting around the dinner table.

Everyone except one person has food on their plate.

the person without any food says "I need food"

Several other people reply "Everyone needs food", and go about eating.

[Straw Man]

28. 100% agreement.

Adding the "too" seems to make it understandable for some people.

[LiberalLovinLug]

32. BLMT should maybe have been used from the get go

It should have been realized we'd have to accommodate the reactive trigger happy racists are always ready to twist anything we give them, and ways they could do that, how open it is to RW redefinition. Another gem is "Open Borders"

[July]

29. "All Lives Matter" is an intentional misreading of "Black Lives Matter."

We wouldn’t need to say “Black Lives Matter” if we believed that in our world those lives DO matter to everyone just as much as white lives do. There is too much evidence to the contrary, though, in this society.

Those who say “All Lives Matter” deliberately place themselves in the position of put-upon “good people” who are being disrespected or, even worse, being accused of racism. That is some paranoid inversion of the message of “Black Lives Matter.” Their need to deny the REAL disrespect, injustices, and unequal treatment of POC is the reason for the kneejerk “All Lives Matter.”

[erronis]

36. Yup. An intential way to deflect. An easy psyop way to change the subject and inject discord.

A favorite of various agencies and groups around the world. The US and USSR (aka Russia) of course.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

30. If all lives matter, wear a mask in public indoor spaces, like stores. . . . nt

[StarryNite]

53. Yes

But unfortunately to some people apparently they really don't matter that much. Especially when they're trying to make a political statement. Then what they're really saying is, I don't give a flying fig about anybody else. In reality they just want everybody to know that the fact that they support tRump matters.

[maxsolomon]

33. It is such a simple concept

that it is hard for me to accept that they don't understand it unless "also" or "too" is added.

Willfully obtuse, and unwilling to try because it implicates them in the historically racist structure of America. They reject deep thought.

[MineralMan]

34. Many people see almost everything on a surface level only.

Those people I try to educate as best i can. Sometimes I'm successful; sometimes I'm not. I keep trying because of the successes. I don't stop trying because of the times I fail to educate.

I don't expect 100% success. I outgrew that at about age 12. Every success is a success. That's enough to keep me going.

We only improve the world if we try to do so. If we give up, we give the world to the other side. I'm not willing to do that.

[maxsolomon]

35. I agree with that approach, I am just suspicious of their surface-level understanding.

Lately, I'm trying to find any point of agreement.

Can we start from agreeing that Gravity exists? That kind of thing...

[erronis]

37. Good luck with that, for the knuckle-draggers. Gravity? Earth going around the Sun?

Blasphemous.

And more likely: "Who gives a shit?"
They aren't into the fine points of science or logic or humanity or ...

[snort]

38. 'Of course All Lives Matter,

it's just that right now, Black Lives need our help.'

[SWBTATTReg]

39. Good for you. Every little bit helps. NT

[Beartracks]

41. "All lives matter." Never has there been a more impassioned plea for nothing.

It's a clever way to NOT say black lives DON'T matter, but gives the speaker carte blanche to... well, to do nothing. Adopting that response and attitude provides a handy balm to convince oneself nothing needs to change.

It is part of the proud American tradition of taking a moral stand for the status quo, like claiming racism was conveniently finished once Barack Obama was elected as our President.

===============

[someone_else]

42. "No, ALL people should have the right to vote"

- "Black lives matter"
- "No, ALL lives matter!"

- "Openly gay people should be able to serve in the military."
- "No, ALL people should be able to serve in the military!"

- "Women should have the right to vote."
- "No, ALL people should have the right to vote!"

[uppityperson]

44. Welcome to DU. Would you clarify what you mean? Thank you.

[someone_else]

46. Okay...

"Black lives matter" doesn't imply that other lives don't, just like "Women should have the right to vote" doesn't imply that men shouldn't.

So "No, all lives matter" is as bad a counter-argument today as "No, all people should have the right to vote" would have been a century ago.

"Falun Gong practitioners should be free from oppression by the Chinese government"
- "No, all people should be free from oppression by the Chinese government"

You see?

[uppityperson]

47. Thank you. Still not clear.

Last edited Sat Jun 13, 2020, 01:28 PM - Edit history (1)

[Cha]

43. I'm glad your relative agreed with your

well reasoned explanation.

This little girl's sign says much the same.. and is my favorite.


Heartstrings❤

[csziggy]

56. THIS

I was checking to see if anyone posted this picture since it says it so well. Thank you, Cha, for putting it up.

[Cha]

57. You're Welcome, csziggy. It says it

perfectly

[whistler162]

45. or All Lives Matter but until people

realize that ALL includes ALL people and not just people of European origin then Black Lives Matter will be the chant.

[Qutzupalotl]

48. A related meme found on facebook:

[Dem_in_Nebr.]

51. I say that

":All Lves matter" is precisely why "Black lives matter" amd yet they don't!!!

It's been demonstrated time an d time again thrughtout our history that Black Lives Don't Matter!!

So unless you are willing to acknowledge that "All Lives Matter" means that "Black Lives Matter" you don't get to say that!!

[NurseJackie]

54. Quoting you in full...

Quoting you in full, so that I can add this post to my "DU Journal" (which will let me easily find it in the future). I'll probably need to quote you again (sadly) in the future... but with your words, I'll be better prepared.

In a discussion with a relative who is a Republican, he said, "All Lives Matter, Not just black lives." It's a common theme that people use to argue against the "Black Lives Matter" slogan.

I told him, and I paraphrase, "Yes, all lives do matter, but the lives of black people and other minorities have historically not mattered as much as white people's lives. As white people, we take it for granted that we will not be choked to death by a police officer. Black people, in particular, cannot take that for granted, because many black lives have been taken in that way by the police. So, when they say 'Black Lives Matter,' try to think of it as 'Black Lives Matter, Too" or 'Black Lives Matter as Much as White Lives and Your Life Matter.' That's what it means, and that has not been the case in the past and even today. It should be. So, that's why that slogan is being used."

My relative thought about that for a minute, and then agreed with me. Maybe that explanation can help others explain those words.

[MineralMan]

55. I'm honored, to say the least.