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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWas NASCAR always a "Southern Thing?"
I'm not a racing fan, but my impression was that NASCAR was a "sport" that began with people who built souped up cars to carry illegal alcohol during prohibition.
Some of those cars were fantastic pieces of engineering designed to outrun the "revenuers," (govt. agents looking for illegal stills and those who drove the goods to market.)
I rarely watched a NASCAR event, but the one or two times I tuned into it, it was hard to not see confederate flags that were scattered among the crowd. It's why I came to see NASCAR as a piece of the "Southern Heritage" bullshit that was a code for out and out racism.
So my attitude become, Fuck NASCAR and anyone who has anything to do with it.
Seeing that they have denounced the confederate flag, I admire them for doing so. A bit late, but nonetheless ...
Where NASCAR goes from here, we'll have to wait and see. Hopefully, it will be only about auto racing with no underlying "message" to the unreconstructed bigots/haters/morons of the world.
lapfog_1
(29,199 posts)another southern "tradition"... souped up stock cars were used to outrun the police as the moonshiners would deliver the illegal alcohol.
Ilsa
(61,694 posts)There is a nascar museum in north georgia where they also sell moonshine and have tastings.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)one is likely to see confederate flag types either.
Now formula racing often attracts a different crowd, so I don't think it's racing per se.
Thunderbeast
(3,406 posts)I can just see the hats and shirts in defiance of the rule.
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)Honest question.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Infield.
BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)attendees will be wearing something with the confederate flag on it, just to fuck with NASCAR and show that famous "Southern Pride". SOutherners can be the most stubborn people on earth, as evidenced by 150 years of claiming they will RISE AGAIN.
NASCAR can't possibly have enough security to bounce them outta there.
It'll be interesting.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Theyll sneak them in and security wont be able to deal with the numbers. Hillbillies gonna hillbilly.
ace3csusm
(969 posts)"The South Will Rise Again" - followed by an American Flag "And Will Defeat You Again"
Wounded Bear
(58,647 posts)It does have real roots in the bootleggers and moonshiners going back to the 20's and 30's.
Americans love their fast cars and in movies like Thunder Road with Rob't Mitchum kind of lionized them. But, of course, we've always liked movies about "lovable criminals" no matter how despicable they were in real life. Bonny and Clyde comes to mind, not to mention the Oceans Infinity franchise.
IAE, in the 40's and 50's, after prohibition ended, the bootleggers lost a big part of their customer base and rumrunners converted to race car drivers. From there you get stock car racing, largely on a local basis growing into the NASCAR juggernaut that thrived for many years and remains popular, but it's core constituency has always been the "country" folk and yes, the redneck crowd.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,647 posts)philf99
(238 posts)NASCAR moved to places like Vegas and Fontana California in the late 90s and ended racing in places like North Wilksboro, NC.
The sport saw a boom with drivers like Earnhardt and Gordon.
Its been in a downward spiral for some time so anyone blaming the banning of the confederate flag is full of BS
DinahMoeHum
(21,783 posts)Link to tweet
. . .NASCARs roots are not in bigotry or pining for the lost cause of the enslavement of African people. Stock car racing started with bootleggers who were juicing up their cars to outrun the cops and the Ku Klux Klan (many of whom were interchangeable). The Klan were strong believers in prohibition and ready to enforce it with violence. The stock car bootleggers were true rebels. Not in the traitorous Confederate sense, but in the style of rabble-rousing nonconformity. The original stock car drivers had more in common with the white folks in the streets this month calling for black lives to matter than they did with the Confederate-flag-waving Trump supporters who have been the backbone of NASCARs business for so many decades. What they are doing right now honors their true tradition, buried under decades of Confederate sewage.
(boldface emphasis is mine - DMH)
#newrostrong
ms liberty
(8,572 posts)LeftInTX
(25,255 posts)I get NASCAR and plain old auto racing mixed up, because I don't follow auto racing.
It started as a southern thing in Daytona Beach in the 1940s, but Indianapolis 500 started in 1911
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_500
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASCAR
csziggy
(34,136 posts)So it was much later than racing up north.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,853 posts)There was a time when I rarely saw it on TV, whereas my brother in the South complained about seeing NASCAR and professional wrestling.
BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)me if that means just a rectangular piece of fabric you can wave in the air, or the flag emblazoned on shirts, bandanas, skull caps, etc.
We'll find out...
gibraltar72
(7,503 posts)Bill France saw possibilities and started NASCAR. It pretty much stayed in the south. in the 50s. But race fans were open when it moved north. I am a gearhead and love all kinds of racing. I saw the first NASCAR race and USAC Indycar race At Michigan International Speedway. I love any Motorsports. The problem with NASCAR is it grew from a race to let's have a party. NASCAR shit on fans by closing southern tracks to bring dates to far flung places. I believe they will generate a new type of fan with this move. Secondarily with stars from other sports saying "They have a Brother" I think you'll see some of them field teams. I could be wrong. Brad Daugherty former NBA player has had team in Nascar for years. He Tried Pro Stock drag racing. He wasn't quite good enough. Nascar has had a thing called Drive For diversity for a few years. It was kind of a gong show to find racers of other nationalities. Some have stepped up and are racing. Some female drivers are in the lower classes. As an aside I saw how the people in NASCAR took care of Wendell Scott years ago. I'm not gonna say there weren't racist drivers. But I saw other teams bring their used but still good tires to Wendells pit. Also saw times when if he had to pit on a green members from other crews would come to his pit and help his family service the car.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)So, um, do the math.
Mopar151
(9,980 posts)"Moonshining" was a post-Prohibition phenomenon. It was driven as much by oddly restrictive liquor laws in the South - Byzantine and Baptist, all at once, with one set of rules for "Society", and another for " the lot of you". Making, and transporting, "white liquor", was a tough, dangerous business - and make no mistake, it was a business! If you hauled liquor for Mr. Raymond Parks (The Moonshine King of Atlanta), your "route" would take you from the hills of North Georgia to the Parks Novelty warehouse, whose nominal business was servicing vending machines in the Atlanta area. Dragging the cops along - or undue attention - was NOT part of the job!
Red Byron's gararge, in Atlanta, modified and prepared cars for both liquor haulers, and police. When asked whose cars were faster, Red would reply "The moonshiners paid cash!".
The Ford "flathead" V-8 was favored because of it's ability to stand extended periods of full power, which many of it's mid-30's competitors simply could not do! The simplicity, rugged design, and popularity of Ford cars, made them the best "base". To start with, the load of whiskey might weigh 1000#, and the car could'nt show outward signs of a load - a dead giveaway, under the circumstances. And it had to be faster than the "Sherrif"'s car, and better handling, while carrying 35-50% more weight! I've met one of Mr' Parks best "haulers" - NASCAR legend Tim Flock - and I would easily compare him to some of the leading lights of the international "Pro Rally" scene, like John Buffum, or Tim O'Neil. (Yes, I know those guys too!). "Stage Rally" is the most apt comparison in modern racing, to "whiskey tripping". Penalties for "speeding on transits", or missing a checkpoint, however, involved jail.
Robert "Junior" Johnson said that it was'nt until the early 1980's that "We got the race cars up to where our moonshine cars ran!" He was not talking about sheer speed, as much as the ability to run flat out, without any "mercy", with full loads, on virtually any road. "A hunnert and forty, on a bumpy 2 lane, with 6 volt headlights, feels like 300 mile an hour on the track!" Junior's favored combination was a 1940 Ford "humpback" sedan, with axles from a "3/4 ton" Ford pickup for durability and safety. (You could fit a LOT of liquor in a '40) "We'd get an engine out of a '50 Cadillac amb-a -lance, that was 200 horsepower stock, and put 2 (McCulloch) superchargers on it!"
So where did the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing come from? "Big" Bill France had driven in some pre-war races for Raymond Parks, and wanted to take racing to a higher level, on a national stage. Early race promoters were a shady lot, prone to taking off with the ticket money before the race was over, and making the rules up at whim. Bill's concept was that people wanted to see cars like they drove every day - literally, "stock" - racing at high speeds, as entertainment. One of the most important aspects of NASCAR is that the prize money promised and advertised as "Posted Awards" would, literally be "money in the bank", paid out as promised. The realities of the time were that the only cars available, and capable, of racing this way, were moonshine cars. NASCAR's first class was "Modified", and it took a couple years to round up enough "stock" cars for a "strictly stock" race. The first winner, was disqualified for overload springs on the rear ("standard" on a moonshine car). France's vision called for for bigger tracks, and larger crowds, with substantial "banking" in the turns to increase speed (and visibility) The first "superspeedway" was built in Darlington, SC.
The rebel flags and epic drinking events, come from the spectator side of the sport. Oval racing is a blue-collar sport, and in the deep South, that's not always nice! Big Bill's ambitions as a promoter led him to play footsie with racist politicans, particularly George Wallace, to secure land and funding for the biggest tracks, at Daytona, and Talladega, Alabama. Wendell Scott bore the brunt of a lot of the racisim - like not getting the trophy, or the checkered flag, as the only Black man to win a "Grand National" race to this day! France was so scared of the crowd reaction, that he would'nt acknowledge Scott's win until the crowd left! Wendell was a brilliant mechanic, and could have easily gone to work for several top teams - but he was determined to make his own way. He did get "behind the scenes" help from Cale Yarborough, in particular, and his friend & neighbor, Richard Petty. Richard was famously frugal, and he would "rib" his friend "How come we spend all this money, and you run so good?" Scott put his 4 kids through college "out of Daddy's wallet". "Bubba" Wallace, the only AA driver currently competing, drives for Richard Petty Motorsports.
An interesting aside Frank "Rebel" Mundy was the "nom de race" of Frank Munoz. It was a common practice at the time, especially in the Northeast, where Polish and Armenian, or inconvenient surnames were "resized" by, circumstance, announcers and sign painters. "Bugs Stevens" was Carl Steven Bergman, when he enlisted in the Army, but the Army took a dim view of racing at the time, so "Bugsy" was called into service. LeMans competitor Phil Walters "slummed" as Ted Tappet.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,853 posts)More viewers in the Midwest than I expected.
My brother briefly lived in Roanoke VA about 40 years ago, where he complained about NASCAR (and professional wrestling), and that area indeed has the biggest NASCAR following according to PBS!
Edit: My brother mostly didn't like the struggle of trying to find "common interests" with others who lived there. The ragweed was bad too, so he moved.
Wounded Bear
(58,647 posts)that's why Indiana and Ohio are so red.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,853 posts)That might indeed explain it.
npk
(3,660 posts)Ohio is not that red. I mean most President elections, at least since I have been alive, Ohio has gone blue. I know last time was obviously an exception. But at the very worse Ohio leans slightly, and I mean slightly red. But I would be shocked to see Ohio go red anytime in the near future. I think it will only become more blue as the decades go by.