Eddie Glaude lumped in Bill Clinton with

[Trumpocalypse]

Trump and Reagan as a racist President on Velshi. Silly me. I never realized a man called the first African American President was a racist.

[MoonRiver]

1. I heard that.

[milestogo]

2. Calling Clinton the first African American President was always bullshit.

[Trumpocalypse]

3. But was he a racist

like Trump and Reagan?

[Baitball Blogger]

10. No. He was not a racist.

Just a president who was easily influenced by the polls. He was a political animal, first. And for his time and his upbringing he was about what you could expect from a white president.

[milestogo]

30. No, but he was not African American.

He was not of that race and he did not have that life experience.

[The Magistrate]

4. One More Far Left Trump Enabler, Sir

https://www.risingupwithsonali.com/2016/07/14/progressive-princeton-professor-says-he-wont-vote-for-clinton/

Anyone who refused on radical grounds to vote for Mrs. Clinton is excused any further participation in national affairs as being incapable of sound judgement, and should just sit down and shut the fuck up. I do not care what such a person's accredidation, degrees, or professional standing might be --- anyone who did that is a blithering idiot.

[dawg day]

5. +1

[Baitball Blogger]

12. This was not about Hillary Clinton. It's about Bill Clinton.

[The Magistrate]

14. His Judgement Being So Poor In Regards To Mrs. Clinton's Candidacy, Sir

Makes it abundantly clear any comment he makes on political questions ought to be dismissed out of hand as the babblings of a pluperfect idiot. I would give greater credence to the views of our cat on Mr. Clinton's policies, attitudes, and character. It would be safest to assume the dead opposite of what this fella says is so is true.

[Baitball Blogger]

15. Esteemable sir. If this moment in history demands anything from us, it is to

have the fortitude to listen to the opinions of the most aggrieved. For we would not be where we are today, had we listened sooner.

[The Magistrate]

17. It Is Never Wise Or Appropriate, Sir, To Listen To An Idiot

Nothing can be gained by doing so, beyond perhaps a certain low amusement. Anything sound he may have to say can certainly be gotten from people who do not display his degree of foolishness and poor judgement on matters of consequence.

[R B Garr]

20. So true!

When you have to resort to calling Bill Clinton a racist, it’s proof of “low amusement” — great post.

[Baitball Blogger]

21. At least, in this modest exchange, we can see why the voices that spoke truth, even in

diminutive amounts, were ignored.

Kaepernick was also called many unflavorful names, and his opinions were dismissed by many. His opinion prevailed because the times would not be denied.

[R B Garr]

35. The third party shading you are using isn't "truth".

Truth is that we got the Iraq war because of the lies about Gore. How about those truths.

[Baitball Blogger]

38. I have no idea what you mean by connecting Gore to the Iraq War.

Maybe it comes from a conspiracy site that I'm not familiar with. Everyone knows that was a Bush-Cheney debacle.

And I'm calling shame on you for trying to dismiss everything as third-party shading, when it's something you don't like to hear. I wish life were that easy.

[The Magistrate]

47. Perhaps You Mis-Understood, Sir

The gentleman did not connect Mr. Gore to the invasion of Iraq. He stated that because of lies told about Mr. Gore, Bush the Lesser was put in a position where he could invade Iraq. He likely would have done so even without the pretext of the attack on the Trade Center and Pentagon by Bin Laden, but had to get into office to do it, and he got into office because of lies told about Mr. Gore, and because of the people who believed those lies. Some of the lies told about Mr. Gore were told by Republicans and some by the press, but certainly some were told from the left, epitomized by Nader pressing the 'not a dime's worth of difference' line. These latter were a critical element in the installation of Bush. Those who were deluded by these lies, and those who pressed them, to this day refuse to take responsibility for what they did, and in many instances continued to this day to press such lies, to the benefit of no one but the christo-fascist right. Such lies were told from the left about Mrs. Clinton, and are still being told from the left about Mr. Biden.

[Baitball Blogger]

52. And this proves one thing,

It is growing apparent to me, that many of you spend far more time listening to conspiracy theories, than I do.

So, this seems to be a case of, for those who have a hammer, everything is a nail.

I do have a hammer of my own, concerning the Gore v Bush dust-up. I live in Seminole County, Florida. I will always feel that my vote was stolen when the poll attendant did not put my ballot through the hopper and I don't think it only happened to me. And then, there's that whole mess up in the Sanford supervisor of election's office, allowing the Republican representative to go through the absentee ballots for Republicans to fix a problem that would have spoiled the ballots, but they did not do the same for the Democrats.

Just saying.

[The Magistrate]

54. This, Sir, Is Beginning To Seem Like Cross-Talk

It would be best if you were to specify what in my comment above amounts to propounding some 'conspiracy theory'....

[Baitball Blogger]

57. You really don't see it, do you Magistrate?

That surprises me. You all want to try to shut down opinions on this site, by putting labels on us that are simply not true.

I understand your agenda now. And I'm sorry to say that it will have an effect on whether we enjoy another exchange of ideas.

My best to you and the family.

[The Magistrate]

59. Now This, Sir, Is A Line Long Familiar

When people encounter effective disagreement, some complain they are being 'shut down'. When this line is used, it amounts to a confession that one's position is insupportable. People disagree with me frequently, you may find them doing so in this very discussion, yet I have never replied to disagreement by complaining I was being 'shut down', and it would never occur to me to do so. I am confident my views, and arguments in support of them, are sufficiently cogent to persuade most who read them, against any opposition encountered.

Your reply does not identify any 'conspiracy theory' to which I subscribe involving how the defeat of Mr. Gore enabled Bush the Lesser to take office and subsequently to invade Iraq. I think it safe to assume you do not imagine that Mr. Gore, had he become President, would have invaded Iraq, even had he failed to head off Bin Laden's attacks (which a properly alert administration might well have succeeded in forestalling). So it is difficult to see what exception you take to the proposition that Mr. Gore's defeat led to the invasion of Iraq. It is also difficult to see what exception you take to the proposition that campaigning against Mr. Gore from the left, epitomized by Nader, made some contribution to the defeat of Mr. Gore in 2000.

[R B Garr]

48. You are the one who brought up third-party points about

Clinton, plus a couple RW talking points about the economy. They are easy to spot, especially after 5 years recently of this rhetoric over two recent campaigns.

Clinton ran with Gore, and you were shading his presidency. Gore was attacked with this third party shading, as well. That’s how we got Bush.

[Baitball Blogger]

56. I'm sorry, but you know how I feel about how you try to dismiss other people's opinions

by categorizing them as enemy talking points. I'm a critical thinker and I will review whatever opinion at face values. I don't use biased filters, the way you do.

We are just not a good match. Have a good, and healthy day.

[R B Garr]

58. Please, you are the one who chose easily recognizable

third party tripe. Talk about no “match”. Same to you.

[2naSalit]

22. +1. Sir.

[R B Garr]

13. +1

[SoonerPride]

6. Kanye West said "George Bush doesn't care about black people"

That sounds like a racist to me.

And we know Nixon was.

So my guess would be all republican presidents have been racists.

But Bill Clinton? Get the Fuck outta here with that noise.

[mnmoderatedem]

7. Glaude was referring to Clinton's speech at Stone Mountain GA

his tough on crime speech, to which he objected to the location. it's a well known white supremacist location, but not sure how you lump that in with trump and Reagan.

[Trumpocalypse]

24. Because he named Trump and Reagan

in the same statement with Clinton.

[JHB]

32. I would guess he was also thinking of the "Sistah Souljah Moment"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_Souljah_moment

The term originated in the 1992 presidential candidacy of Bill Clinton. In a Washington Post interview published on May 13, 1992, the hip-hop MC, author, and political activist Sister Souljah was quoted as saying (in response to the question regarding black-on-white violence in the 1992 Los Angeles riots):

Question: Even the people themselves who were perpetrating that violence, did they think that was wise? Was that a wise reasoned action?


Souljah: Yeah, it was wise. I mean, if black people kill black people every day, why not have a week and kill white people?... White people, this government and that mayor were well aware of the fact that black people were dying every day in Los Angeles under gang violence. So if you're a gang member and you would normally be killing somebody, why not kill a white person? Do you think that somebody thinks that white people are better, are above and beyond dying, when they would kill their own kind?
—?Quoted in David Mills (16 June 1992) "In Her Own Disputed Words; Transcript of Interview That Spawned Souljah's Story", The Washington Post

Speaking to Jesse Jackson, Sr.'s Rainbow Coalition in June 1992, Clinton responded both to that quotation and to something Souljah had said in the music video of her song "The Final Solution: Slavery's back in Effect" ("If there are any good white people, I haven't met them" ). "If you took the words 'white' and 'black,' and you reversed them, you might think David Duke was giving that speech," said Clinton.

Prior to his appearance, Clinton's campaign staff had conducted an intense debate about how far he should go in distancing himself from Jackson, who was unpopular with moderate voters. When Souljah was invited to speak at the conference, Clinton's advisors saw their chance.

Clinton's response was harshly criticized by Jackson, who said, "Sister Souljah represents the feelings and hopes of a whole generation of people," and he claimed that she had been misquoted. Clinton was also criticized by some of the Democratic Party's other African American supporters. Souljah responded by denying she had ever made remarks promoting murder and accused Clinton of being a racist and a hypocrite because he had played golf at a country club that refused to admit black members until he decided to run for president earlier in the year; Clinton acknowledged that he was once a member of an all-white Arkansas golf club early into his presidential campaign and publicly apologized.[8] In response to the rebuttal, Paul Greenberg, a progressive Arkansas journalist and longtime Clinton critic who dubbed the Arkansas Governor "Slick Willie" during his 1980 re-election bid, criticized Souljah for lying about what she said in an earlier interview with the Washington Post, accusing her of trying to fend off criticism "with the savvy of an experienced pol." In the same article he compares her to Louis Farrakhan, the leader of the Nation of Islam.

[OnDoutside]

8. Eddie "Why I can't vote for Hillary" Glaude ?

[Paladin]

11. Yeah, THAT Eddie Glaude.

His very public, very nasty trashing of Hillary put Glaude on my permanent shit list. It's all on Google, for anybody to see.

[Ilsa]

27. After she got the nomination, why

couldn't Glaude vote for her? I know he was a Bernie supporter, but did he say who he voted for and why He thought trump would be better than HRC?

[OnDoutside]

55. Because he's firstly an ideologue, secondly a hypocrite and thirdly

utterly self absorbed. That he still has not apologised even though he can quite clearly see that life would have been demonstrably better under a Clinton presidency rather than a Trump one, says everything for me.

[Baitball Blogger]

9. Clinton was the triangulation president.

It was very clever framing. Just like Trump has his kind of framing, saying one thing when he means another. Clinton had a framing that said one thing, but did another.

Triangulation was a process that broke gridlock, which was a problem in Clinton's time. Triangulation really was a box of sell-out all wrapped up in a beautiful box of bows. Clinton proudly told us that he co-opted the Republican's policies, giving them nothing to stand on. And, at first, only the real, True Blues, understood what that meant.

Basically, Clinton was a Centrist. He used many of the objectives sought by black American as bargaining chips, in return for whatever it was he wanted. Which, from what I observed, were policies that loosened up the financial regulations. Really, in lieu of where we are today, I don't think his legacy will hold up because all those good times we had financially -- like enjoying the profit from pyramid programs and e-companies that were nothing more than a bag of air, but sold for millions--all those things were short-term pleasures. They really didn't have any lasting effect for most Americans.

But those bargaining chips, they had a long-term effect for Black Americans. You can't deny that the policies he pushed had a negative effect for Black Americans. Clinton essentially gave a nod to Newt Gingrich's Contract on America. Welfare programs, which did need reform, were a total capitulation. I think people were limited to welfare funds to a two year period. Today I see it as a weaning off process. Essentially, social programs took a hit during Clinton's time.

And the police reforms were a crazy capitulation. Clinton would increase the ranks of the police. Bush II would militarize their methods.

[R B Garr]

18. This seems to be the cynical Bernie supporter view...?

No offense, but that all sounds very unilaterally anti-Clinton, similar to the rhetoric we’ve heard for 5 years from an Independent from Vermont.

Clinton’s main focus was reducing the debt, which he did successfully and beat the Republicans at their own game. He did alienate some groups in the process, but he would have handed off his excellent financial position to Gore, but Gore was attacked by another third party candidate. Clinton was elected twice, a huge feat in the era of Family Values.

Eddie Glaude is a Bernie supporter, so using this shading of Clinton sounds familiar.

[Baitball Blogger]

25. "He did alienate some groups in the process,"

Yes. That is what I was expanding on.

I voted for Bill Clinton, twice. I even defended him in a comment that was published by Salon.com. I voted for Hillary once, when it counted.

I will tell you this, when I decided to join the Democratic party, it was with the understanding that I was not joining a cult, but a tent that could accommodate critical thinkers. Bernie Sanders will deliver for Biden. I was never part of the Bernie Bros, nor was I part of any group on this site that tried to blot out every idea that remotely sounds like it was hatched by Sanders.

[R B Garr]

33. Clinton ran on "It's the economy, stupid" and he

did deliver on that. His policies also helped black home ownership, among many other benefits. I’m not going to link 8 years of a successful presidency, but your shading is unmistakably the familiar third party attack.

The trope that Clinton was simply lucky because of a tech bubble is a RW talking point. The bubble was on top of a vastly improved GDP — that’s how good the economy was.

Bill Clinton certainly isn’t racist, which is the subject of this thread.

[Baitball Blogger]

34. Stop dismissing everything you don't like as a right-wing trope.

Please. As a member of a minority group I have spent a lifetime of having my perspective shut down because it didn't fit into the, mostly white, dominant view.

You obviously have a fused way of judging opinions, trying to reframe everything that disagrees with your p.o.v., as hatched by "the other side."

You know, I can play the same game, because you sound like a conspiracy theorist.

See, what I did there?

And if you look elsewhere on this thread, I stated that Clinton was not a racist.

[R B Garr]

37. You are the one pushing the third party shading.

It’s very easy to spot, especially after the attacks on Gore and then on Hillary.

No, I did not see what you did there. I see you using the tired third party shading.

[Baitball Blogger]

41. ha-ha-ha.

You really area piece of work. Your logic reminds me of that old joke about the prudish judge who had to define pornography.

[R B Garr]

42. ha ha to you, too

What a bizarre analogy considering the simplistic third party rhetoric you were using. It’s very easy to spot. I only wish I could insult it, but I’m stuck with just pointing it out. It gets really old to read the same simplistic stuff.

[Baitball Blogger]

45. "It gets really old to read the same simplistic stuff."

And the same to you.

[R B Garr]

49. Great, because the third party distractions are easily

recognizable.

[Polly Hennessey]

43. Don't overplay your membership.

Mr. Glaude is a tiresome Hillary basher and is the definition of “mute button”.

[Baitball Blogger]

46. Before this thread, I didn't even know him by name.

I judge the statements, not the man.

[GrapesOfWrath]

62. +100

n/t

[TristanIsolde]

16. What does the chair of the Department of African American Studies and the James S. McDonnell

Distinguished University Professor of African American Studies at Princeton University know. How dare he offer an opinion.

[The Magistrate]

19. Evidently, Ma'am, Much Less Than Might Be Expected From His Credentials

He has no right to have his opinion treated seriously, merely because he has a right to express it. People do often make that mistake.

[TristanIsolde]

23. I disagree with you. I personally respect his opinion on this matter

However, I disagree with his opinion about not voting for Hillary, but I understand where it comes from and cannot just dismiss it as idiotic.

But definitely Bill Clinton was not that progressive when it came to minority rights, be it rights for people of colour and the LGBT communinity.

btw, are you British?

[MrsCoffee]

36. Yet it is idiotic, whether you dismiss it or not.

I understand where it comes from too. Deeply misogynistic roots and FUD. Pretty idiotic.

The don’t vote for Hillary crowd is very transparent.

[The Magistrate]

40. And His View On Voting In 2016, Ma'am, I Certainly View As Idiotic

The mark of sound judgement is to penetrate to the essential elements of a situation. In 2016, the essential element of the situation was that installation of this cheap deranged thug in office was to be prevented at all costs. No one who failed to see that, and to act on it, is worth paying the slightest attention to in any matter of political consequence. This fellow not only failed this test, he went to some effort to persuade others to share his destructive foolishness. He made what positive contribution he could to the cause of putting the cheap thug in office, because that is what not lending wholehearted support to Mrs. Clinton amounted to. I see no reason to rate people who did this from the left any higher than the lowest red-hatted maggot with the stars and bars on his tee-shirt, and can make a case for it that is a damned sight better than any that can be made for the proposition that Mrs. Clinton was no better than Trump, and it hardly mattered which became President.

[DFW]

26. I think I'll take Vernon Jordan's opinion over what's his name's

[Baitball Blogger]

44. You know I respect your opinion,

But, Vernon has a bias of his own, being very pro-Wall Street:

https://www.ft.com/content/429c9540-9fd0-11e8-85da-eeb7a9ce36e4

I did see a rather lengthy, positive, documentary on Vernon. I think, if I had to guess, I would say that Vernon would reflect back and say that Bill Clinton was the best the white culture offered, for that era. Is that praise? Or is that just a sad reality that we had to live through.

BTW, I would vote for Bill Clinton again, because I do believe he was the best white man, that the white culture had to offer at that time.

[DFW]

51. Vernon came from nowhere and refused to buckle under when he was told he could be

That took a lot of guts in the 1950s. He is a role model, and I don't hold it against him that he was successful despite what society and history told him he couldn't ever do. Through sheer determination and a well-honed intellect, he broke though ceilings that he wasn't "supposed" to break through. It was never his doing that determined what was on the next level when he got there. I give him kudos for not only surviving but thriving when he got there. It certainly wasn't because he followed the rules set out for him at the time.

[Baitball Blogger]

53. He is a great role model.

Would never take that away from him. But, I do believe he also recognized that part of his success was because the white culture needed tokens. If I remember the documentary, he hated that, and it just made it easier for him to break away to support civil rights objectives.

I wish he would come out and tell us, specifically, what he thought about the roll-back policies that occurred during the Clinton years.

[DFW]

61. While I agree that the white culture sought tokens

I think they were far more interested in Willie Mays than Vernon Jordan. He didn't fit the desired mold, and went ahead anyway.

Jordan and Clinton are fast friends, and I doubt that either of them, after all these decades, are going to publicly start second-guessing each other. I've never met Jordan, but Bill Clinton? That is just not his style.

[GrapesOfWrath]

63. +100

n/t

[FloridaBlues]

28. Tired of listening to him all the time on MSNBC

[Boomerproud]

29. Bill Clinton was called The First African American

President by a Black woman (someone who was in politics at the time). Are we really having this conversation almost 30 years later?

[dawg]

39. Oh well, bothsiders gonna "bothsides".

Most of us are aware of our party's less than perfect record on racial (and other) issues over the years, but, if I can be forgiven for flipping the parable around a little, now isn't the time to be worrying about the mote in our own eye when the only alternative has a plank in his.

[jcgoldie]

50. I dont think Clinton's a racist but "100,000 more cops on the streets"...

...was a very reactionary way to deal with the issue of crime.

[Sewa]

60. The welfare reform bill was extremely racist

Clinton didn’t support the bill, but with enough votes to override a veto. Clinton did what would help him and signed it into law.

Don’t forget Clinton’s own party abandon him and supported the bill. Putting him in a no win position.